In 2018, Republicans accidentally legalized cannabis. Now 22 AGs want them to undo it

MicroWave@lemmy.world to News@lemmy.world – 394 points – In 2018, Republicans accidentally legalized cannabis. Now 22 AGs want them to undo it
thehill.com

A coalition of 22 state attorneys general is calling on Congress to address “the glaring vagueness” that has led to legal cannabis products being sold over the counter across the country — including sometimes from vending machines or online.

A letter dated March 20 addresses the consequences of Republican lawmakers’ choice to legalize hemp production in the 2018 omnibus Farm Bill — a decision that perhaps inadvertently led to a multibillion-dollar market in intoxicating cannabis products that are arguably federally legal.

Now, the attorneys general want Congress to shutter the market it helped create. In the new Farm Bill, they want the legislature to enshrine in statute the idea that intoxicating cannabis is not federally legal — contrary to what the law currently states.

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They don't want to raise taxes on the rich. Here's a massive way to raise taxes that won't affect the income of rich people unless they want to buy a shit ton of weed.

And yet they're still against it.

They pretend like a 100% tax free nation is a possibility.

When Kansas under Brownback, (with full control of the statehouse), went all-in on supply side and it was a objective failure that really shoulda been the end of the idea that R's had any savvy regarding improving the economy.

They pretend like a 100% tax free nation is a possibility.

Well sure there are, Haiti probably isn’t collecting any taxes right now, so they’ve got that going for them…

They pretend like a 100% tax free nation is a possibility.

They know this isn't possible. They want no income tax for the wealthy and increased taxes on goods and services, which will mostly affect the working masses.

Then shouldn't they want highly-taxed cannabis?

I think you're giving them too much credit. They're ideologues that think taxes = bad. They just don't care so much when they hurt the poor because they think the poor deserve to have bad things happen to them.

To prove your point, Colorado has collected over $1.5 billion is cannabis tax since it was legalized. That's just a single state, and not a huge one at that.

Here's even republican/wealthy friendly article talking about it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthoban/2021/05/23/the-success-of-colorados-marijuana-tax-dollars/?sh=14e60c79529d

Illinois got even more. $1.6 billion in 2020 alone. That's where I buy from, although I cross the border from Indiana.

Is it expensive because of the tax? Yes it is. But I'm fine with that because legalizing and taxing it should be the model everywhere and I'm happy to support it.

As someone from MO, fuck IL's tax. Went from paying $125 for a gram of wax to ~$40 once MO legalized.

It's better than it being illegal, obviously, but it's so clearly only that high so they can extort out of state buyers.

Sounds like an argument for national legalization. Which raising a bunch of tax money will encourage.

Oh absolutely agreed. The fact we have to play these games in the first place is bullshit

Yup. In MO we've seen not far off of $100mil in state tax revenue and it's only been legal since Feb 2023. At least one city near me was pushed into a surplus because of the extra revenue (admittedly, they were running at a very, very small deficit previously, but still).

It might compete with big pharma's profits, though.

I honestly think it's totally ideological for a lot of them. Drugs = bad and it doesn't go further than that.

These AGs are elected officials and they aren't getting elected for their brains, they're getting elected for their party affiliation.

As we have seen with lawyers like Alina Habba and Rudy Giuliani, it doesn't actually take a lot of intelligence to pass the bar exam.

Wow, imagine Republicans getting worked up about the wording of a law being twisted in ways it was never intended when it was first drafted. That’s wild.

The party of taking things away from others. That's the only way I can think of them anymore. For years now. It's their entire platform.

Except obscenely rich people and giant corporations!

I prefer to think of the moral right side of any issue: Republicans are almost always against it.

I get an ounce delivered to my mailbox on a monthly subscription and occasionally order extra when something goes on sale. I keep trying to share about legal weed on lemmy whenever the topic comes up, but i just get downvoted. I don't know if people think it can't be real or just want something to bitch about.

Possibly because I'm from a legal state and wasn't paying attention to it, but I'm not sure what you're talking about if you care to expound?

Look up thca. Essentially cannabis doesn’t have thc until it’s burned, which the law targets. It’s technically full of thca which is generally referred to as thc. So companies are selling thca products with tests showing thc itself below the 3% limit because it’s technically legal.

The total THC test is early enough that it isn't yet present. After that, only ∆9 is tested. It's all the same thca you would get in a dispensary. DEA asked courts to change the testing requirement and limits. Court said the law is written as intended. There are many farms that sell online through their own websites or through other vendors. I'm in Texas and I've had so much delivered without a single problem. I had 5 lb delivered to my porch in one order– it was in big plastic bags in boxes. That order was mostly CBD and CBG, but still smelled weedy. I'm more worried about the neighborhood kids stealing it than I am about the USPS or FedEx.

Thanks for the additional insight. The package thief paranoia with these boxes is real! Feel you there

I think people are still scared especially in states that have a hardon for locking up anyone that remotely does anything but otc drugs.

I’m not fully sure but believe this is a “if you want federal money then you’ll accept these terms” deal, sort of like how all states have to set the drinking age to 21 or lose out on highway money.

They don't make you feel the same way as the normal weed you are used to though. I have gotten them when I can't get the real stuff and it's just not the same. I wish it was.

We've had some delta-8 edibles that up the concentration so high it's silly. We were cutting them in half and that was getting us higher than some delta-9 stuff. Then we noticed that the bag actually recommends a whole one wtf. If those fucking things are legal, I don't know why we're arguing about the rest.

There's some new workarounds on the market that take it further. The law is that you can't have any more than 0.3% delta 9 by dry weight. Well, 10mg / 0.003 = 3.3g, so you can pack 10mg of delta9 into a gummy as long as its dry weight is about 3g, which isn't much.

Some of the THCa stuff has gotten me couch-lock high, but I agree with RagingRobot, the high doesn't feel the same. I've tried many different THCa/THCo, Delta 8, and Delta 10 products and the overarching trend with all of them was a high that typically only lasted 30 mins (compared to an hour with Delta 9) and they're almost always just an intense head high that makes me feel uncomfortably stuffy. I haven't had a single non-delta 9 product that felt anything close to the more natural high's you get from the various types/blends of Delta 9.

Thca=∆9. I avoid the rest (∆8, 10, etc.) because of the chemicals used in processing.

3 Tall Pines Farm does not use chemicals in their extraction process, if you are looking for a chemical free company.

They specialize in a heat/pressure-only extraction process and include COA's for solvents and residuals to prove their products are clean.

Have you tried THCjd? It tends to be more potent. If anything, it needs to be brought back a little on some of the gummies out there.

I agree it’s not one to one, but I’ve questioned how much if that is the drying, curing and process of getting it to me. Also they used boveda packs which didn’t help. The ones I’ve tried. But I think the post saying it’s due to an early chop sounds right. Probably not enough amber crystals which is when I would assume actual thc gets tested. It’s more complex than I made it seem I’m sure but I think as far as the loophole goes its along those lines. On a related note I’ve been trying thca concentrates and that is definitely more comparable, which makes me think it’s how they’re processing the flower that makes a difference.

I've been a weed fan for 30 years and I cannot tell the difference at all. In fact, from what I've read, the THC that THCa turns into as it's being smoked is identical in every way to any other THC that develops in marijuana.

My friends and I, all long time users, have done several blind tests and can't tell a difference. Make sure you are comparing the same strains when you do your blind tests, otherwise you will inadvertently be testing the differences between strains. Various strains of cannabis have very pronounced differences in flavor and effect in my experience.

Republicunts did not read or maybe comprehend a bill they passed during the Trump years which accidentally legalized THC products derived from hemp or products that technically are hemp and not cannabis because the delta 9 THC concentration is low enough.

From my also limited understanding cannabis can be harvested early before the delta 9 thc crystals form... from the precursor THCa already present in the plant

THCa on its own is not psychoactive however it breaks down into normal THC when exposed to sunlight ... or heat when you smoke/vape it

So you can buy legal (for now) basically weed in the form of high thca flower online and have it shipped to your mailbox.

Im considering anonymously buying some online and having it shipped to my states AG office because fuck that dude needs to smoke some weed

I believe the ones who knew, knew; and the rest didn't read it.

How do you get it delivered to your mailbox?

My subscription is from Hoku Seed Co. Several other places have started doing subscriptions also... I think flow gardens and maybe holy city. Other than hoku, I usually buy from flow or eight horses hemp. I use a dry herb vape mostly at home. When I want a pocket vape, I buy from secret garden.

I'll definitely check it out. I just purchased a vaporizer and I don't care for it but it's probably user error.

What did you get? I have a pax2 and a dynavapB. There's a bit of a learning curve with different ones. I watched a bunch of videos when i got them.

Sounds like not real weed because if it was, the DEA would be all over that shit…..so probably not what you get from a rec or medical dispensary.

What do you think is different?

It’s hemp, so low THC, so doesn’t do a whole lot.

It’s better than nothing, technically, but you’re basically buying oregano all over again in middle school.

It’s ok, it works for you, but it’s not real weed, I would call it gas station weed lol

My subscription is type 2 (thc+cbd) and i buy type 1 (high thc) when there's a good strain on sale. Both are legally available at the links i shared. Not sure about gas station weed - i haven't seen that.

I hear you, but you are smoking hemp, not real weed. It’s classified as such as there is low THC, as in, not real weed. When I say real weed, I mean what the DEA says is real weed, not what some random company is selling. You aren’t going to jail in your illegal state for weed with your hemp.

You can go read all about it on the wiki, but again, you aren’t smoking real weed nor getting high.

A good friend of mine was telling me the same thing as we were hitting my bong. I blew his mind when I told him we were smoking the very stuff he was claiming wasn't real. He admitted he could not tell any difference at all and would not have known had I not told him. I had to show him the packaging because he thought I was kidding.

He couldn't tell a difference because there is no functional difference the instant heat is applied to it. THCa is the natural precursor to THC in cannabis. It becomes regular old THC the instant heat is applied to it.

You are still just smoking hemp, and unlikely actually getting high. I’m sorry you don’t really understand it either like the first person I pointed this out to.

THCa does not get you high, that’s why it’s legally allowed to be grown in America because it’s not an illegal substance….as it is not psychoactive.

THC converts down from THCa when you combust it, so even if there is a large THCa concentration, it results in a low THC amount and not getting you high like you’d expect.

I think the loophole is going to stay in place. The hemp lobby has exploded since 2018, and has done a lot to keep the loopholes from closing in even very Red states. In the real world money is what talks, and I think there’s too much money at this point to put the genie back in the bottle.

But that’s my two cents. I could be wrong. Hope I’m not.

Besides that, the winds have changes with regards to weed as half the country has already legalized it while something like 38 states have some sort of MMJ. The genie isn't going back into the bottle and the sky hasn't fallen in the states that legalized.

Hilarious that their argument is that "these products are unregulated" when their solution is an outright ban which just shifts everything back to the unregulated black market. You know where these type of products are regulated? In states that have legal weed.

Depends. Ideological movements can push past distributed money using targeted money aimed at those it puts in power that don't care about the effects of their actions, even if usually only briefly. Like what led to prohibition of alcohol. If Trump gets into office and is given enough money by the ideologs, he'll be perfectly happy to destroy the whole system for personal profit. And he doesn't care if a whole section of the oligarchy falls apart, he just wants to be dictator for the rest of his life. And that's not all that many years anymore.

Even the worst Roman emperors knew not to fuck with what makes the crowd content. If those right wing motherfuckers think they can touch our bread and circuses without consequences, they will find out.

Here's the thing: this was a super irresponsible way to legalize. It encouraged the creation of an industry using dubious extraction and synthesis technologies that are not well studied for safety. We know the effects of delta 9 THC on humans, and it's relatively safe. Much of this new stuff are analogs of delta 9 that might be safe, but might not. You have to search out stuff that has accredited lab test results (which exist in California and some other legalized states). Rando stuff being sold at gas stations all over is sketch as hell.

The solution to that is to legalize delta 9 and bring it under a proper regulation framework for testing, not go backwards.

Started buying Farm Bill hemp products over COVID. I'm surprised really that it took them this long to start pushing to change it.

So many hemp products available these days. You can get hemp dog chews! My dog loves them! No, they don't get her high.

I guess these AGs don't want those businesses anymore.

I fully expected my state AG to have been one of the signatories on that (they've made a big stink about this in the past), but surprisingly they weren't.

Our legislature did outlaw D8 last year, but somehow it's still being sold (yay).

There are two companies in-state that rely on this law (Blue Ridge and Thrax). Blue Ridge is ran by veterans, and both would have been affected (read: shut down completely). I don't know the details, but I want to say they lobbied and I guess are allowed to continue?

My AG is a complete scumbag, but I guess shutting down a family / vereran-run business was too much bad press even for him. The tax revenue is probably just a bonus.

As far as outlawing delta-8, I that's going to be a losing battle, especially since there's already delta-10. They can't outlaw hemp because of the farm bill and, while it does take a lot of hemp, it's pretty trivial to extract THC from it.

Unfortunately, my AG is a much bigger scumbag than yours. I live in Indiana. Guess which AG has the very first signature on this letter?

Todd Rokita may very well be the worst AG in the country. And he's constantly wasting taxpayer money on things like taking trips down to the southern border, as if Indiana had something to do with it.

For real. I was pretty skeptical but I really can't tell the difference between the delta 9 THC edibles I buy (in a state without even medical) and the real thing.

If they reverse this, a shit load of tax dollars are going back to states with legal recreational cannabis.

Just to be clear "Delta 9 THC" is the "real thing".

Delta 8 is also real but a minor cannabinoid with a milder effect.

Hemp-derived THC is too many word

I mean that you're probably confusing Delta 8 and 9. Delta 9 is the main cannabinoid in regular cannabis, it's just regular THC.

From my understanding, when it comes to edibles, your liver converts both delta-9 and delta-8 into 11-hydroxy-thc so the effect should be almost exactly the same. Where as when you smoke or vape delta-8 or delta-9 there is no conversion that happens which leads to differing effects.

That's interesting because I never really got much out of the delta-8/9 carts. I've tried a few over the years hoping they'd get better; guess I'll quit doing that lol

Steal from the poor to give to the rich. They're focusing on it again because they're being told the money isn't going to the correct people.

If someone wanted to purchase this legal weed, say, in South Carolina, is there a guide somewhere indicating what is legally available in that jurisdiction?

Asking for a friend...

I'm just guessing, but they might be referring to delta 8 thc products.

You can buy Delta-8 THC and maybe Delta-10 THC. Your mileage may vary. I wasn't a huge fan but you can get a lot for a little.

I order mine online from a U.S. company called 3 Tall Pines that only sells to states where it's legal. You can check to see if they ship to your state.

Nowadays there's a company that sells products that will boost your mood

Wasn't expecting soo many legal states.

The attorneys general of Indiana, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Commonwealth of Virginia, and Washington for any wondering.

Personally I'm of the opinion that they can't take it back now. It's too late.

They cannot undo or erase the harms it's caused. However they could regulate it...and that would be fair. No one under the ages of 18-21 should be able to buy or access this stuff ever; and the required packaging and regulations surrounding that should reflect it.

This should be no more heavily restricted than tobacco products; which already ARE restricted heavily through taxation, permitting, and ID checking at the Point of Purchase.

It would even be fine if you had to obtain these products from behind a dispensing counter; with no prescription needed...just an ID and a clue of the risks that these products carry. There is no need to amend the previous law, just make new ones.

What harms has it caused?

A lot of people in jail for no good reason.

For legal hemp products?

I can't speak for anyone being arrested but if you ever see the thc-a flower they sell, it looks like normal weed. And gets you high like normal weed. Unless cops are doing tests to figure out which is which, surely people will/have gotten arrested with it.

Fair point. Not sure how big of a problem it is, but I would certainly be discreet if it was a possibility.

They got to start bribing congress they want to keep around, just like everyone else.