In order to use a defibrillator, you have to remove everything from a person's chest. This includes the bra and to even shave chest hair to be able to apply the pads correctly.
I've always thought that it would be troublesome for a man to have to apply a defibrillator to a woman if someone assumes foul play because of their own issues.
Life over dignity in that situation, everyone else be damned.
If I saw someone with a defibrillator ripping the clothes off an unconscious woman, I don't think I would suspect foul play.
You might not, but you gotta remember that the public is also filled with idiots
While my cousin's neighbor is fighting a law suit because, a woman (cousin's neighbor) used defibrillator on another woman(when her heart stopped) , and other woman is now suing the neighbor for some minor marks from defibrillator. Mostly neighbor will win the case, but she has to appear in court now. Makes me feel so angry and i don't even know the neighbor lady.
in these cases sometimes the insurance makes you sue even if you don't want to because otherwise they won't pay for any of the debt
My colleague has a situation where he's being sued by his neighbor for minor burns after a firework accident a few years ago 4th of July. The neighbor doesn't want to sue him but has no choice to get the medical services paid for.
That is so ridiculous...
I wonder if judges could be persuaded to levy punitive damages against the insurance company for this kind of thing. "Your honor, we're only wasting your time with this because the insurance company is making us sue. Could you confiscate a few hundred million dollars from them for this worthless harassment?"
At least in America, all the judges are either in the pocket of the businesses or have their hands tied by laws passed by legislators who are in the pocket of businesses. Fuck them businesses.
The ultimate goal with insurance companies is to have you give them money and they never have to give you anything in return. If they can get you to sue the other person, the insurance company doesn't have to pay. To them it's a win-win.
Weakly regulated insurance is a scam
And you have to remember that there's a difference between what some random idiot on the street thinks and what someone can actually be prosecuted for.
Jesus Christ, do the fucking CPR
It's not just about being prosecuted, but publicly judged and shamed for.
Surely there are good Samaritan laws even in the US?
There are, but remember that defenses come into play after being sued. So you can still go through the mental nightmare (because let's be real, a rich person isn't going to be doing CPR, and certainly isn't going to care about being sued, so only your typical person who could lose everything in this scenario) of being a defendant in a lawsuit until the judge agrees to toss it or you go to court and are found not liable.
The public scrutiny and the mark on your record does not go away even if you're found not liable. Once you are even accused of anything like this, it's there forever. People will think you got off on a "technicality".
If you're a man facing this, your life is ruined. May as well move away and never come back.
Never said I wouldn't do the CPR. Only pointing out that in an emergency situation that people are fucking stupid and that a random idiot could easily interfere violently with what they think might be sexual assault
I agree do the CPR but my fear would be getting kicked in the head not sued
It does not have to be life over dignity. There can be a middle ground they could at least provide a cover while doing their thing. I know a teen girl who changed school, did therapy and tried to sue because she once had a seizure and they stripped her naked in front everyone to save her. Her "friends" took video of her and spread it all over their school. As awful as it sounds I'm not making this up.
Fuck the other kids for taking and sharing videos, people suck.
Yup, and that's exactly why men don't help. They tried to save her, but got sued. It's really not worth it.
I'd expect the people who shared footage to be sued, not the first responders.
Why does almost no one clear the area in these posted experiences? That was covered in my (very) basic first aid training. It was emphasized, and it came with a heavy reminder that patient care should be a very high priority. I'm honestly just suprised to read all of these.
Y'all need better trainers and better Good Samaritan laws to protect you. What a world where someone just dies when they could have been saved by someone who was already nearby. Society sucks. Neither "angle" is great.
Yup, society sucks. It's probably selfish of me, but I ain't saving someone when it's possible that I get accused of SA. It's just not worth it. The hassle and the possiblilty of being labelled could affect my future and jobs.
I just did red cross CPR and AED training last week, and the materials said the clothes all need to come off (or pulled up or whatever - off the chest) but chest hair doesn't need to be shaved. Presumably the instructions change periodically.
Its probably much better to have a shaved chest, but lets be realistic. In a situation where CPR and an AED are being used, 1. you probably arent going to have a razor handy 2. the sub-optimal contact with the skin is the least of you (or the patient's) worries.
I took a course a couple of years agao and I believe they said the AEDs come with a razor
Can confirm. Almost all defibrillators come with a pack of additional supplies - including a dry razor
They also teach now to use the provided additional set of pads to basically wax the chest.
It's only an issue on very hairy chests -- i.e. full "bearskin rug" where you need to place the pads. There are patients that have so much hair the pads aren't even touching skin.
In which case you absolutely need to remove the hair. A slightly delayed initial defibrillation is better than multiple ineffective ones. Most AED kits should have a spare set of pads ("wax the chest" with the first set) or a disposable razor.
You're not going to take time to shave, every second counts. The solution is the extra adhesive pads most every AED has. You plant one of those on the the chest hair and rip, and you can get an effectively hairless spot for your lead.
The instructions say that chest hair comes off if the pad isn't sticking effectively to the chest. That means shaving if you have a razor, or using the second adhesives (kid/adult sizes usually come in the same AED kit) as ad hoc waxing devices.
Sounds like a problem for women with chest hair.
you dont have to shave chest hair, wtf are you talking about?
You don't have to, but some defibrillator kits include a razor, and when I took a CPR class, we were taught how to remove hair using either a razor or an extra set of defib pads.
That’s for excessive hair. Just make sure you both aren’t in a puddle.
They're constantly updating best practices, the kits come with a little razor now. Though we got told to apply the pad on the hair and then pull it off, effectively waxing the area. It's apparently to get better contact. Personally I think shaving would be more effective, suppose you do what you have to in the situation.
Waxing would be faster and if there's still hair you could shave it. More painful of course but if it wakes them up you can stop there.
In order to use a defibrillator, you have to remove everything from a person's chest. This includes the bra and to even shave chest hair to be able to apply the pads correctly.
I've always thought that it would be troublesome for a man to have to apply a defibrillator to a woman if someone assumes foul play because of their own issues.
Life over dignity in that situation, everyone else be damned.
If I saw someone with a defibrillator ripping the clothes off an unconscious woman, I don't think I would suspect foul play.
You might not, but you gotta remember that the public is also filled with idiots
While my cousin's neighbor is fighting a law suit because, a woman (cousin's neighbor) used defibrillator on another woman(when her heart stopped) , and other woman is now suing the neighbor for some minor marks from defibrillator. Mostly neighbor will win the case, but she has to appear in court now. Makes me feel so angry and i don't even know the neighbor lady.
in these cases sometimes the insurance makes you sue even if you don't want to because otherwise they won't pay for any of the debt
My colleague has a situation where he's being sued by his neighbor for minor burns after a firework accident a few years ago 4th of July. The neighbor doesn't want to sue him but has no choice to get the medical services paid for.
That is so ridiculous...
I wonder if judges could be persuaded to levy punitive damages against the insurance company for this kind of thing. "Your honor, we're only wasting your time with this because the insurance company is making us sue. Could you confiscate a few hundred million dollars from them for this worthless harassment?"
At least in America, all the judges are either in the pocket of the businesses or have their hands tied by laws passed by legislators who are in the pocket of businesses. Fuck them businesses.
The ultimate goal with insurance companies is to have you give them money and they never have to give you anything in return. If they can get you to sue the other person, the insurance company doesn't have to pay. To them it's a win-win.
Weakly regulated insurance is a scam
And you have to remember that there's a difference between what some random idiot on the street thinks and what someone can actually be prosecuted for.
Jesus Christ, do the fucking CPR
It's not just about being prosecuted, but publicly judged and shamed for.
Surely there are good Samaritan laws even in the US?
There are, but remember that defenses come into play after being sued. So you can still go through the mental nightmare (because let's be real, a rich person isn't going to be doing CPR, and certainly isn't going to care about being sued, so only your typical person who could lose everything in this scenario) of being a defendant in a lawsuit until the judge agrees to toss it or you go to court and are found not liable.
The public scrutiny and the mark on your record does not go away even if you're found not liable. Once you are even accused of anything like this, it's there forever. People will think you got off on a "technicality".
If you're a man facing this, your life is ruined. May as well move away and never come back.
Never said I wouldn't do the CPR. Only pointing out that in an emergency situation that people are fucking stupid and that a random idiot could easily interfere violently with what they think might be sexual assault
I agree do the CPR but my fear would be getting kicked in the head not sued
Which is why all the most clever rapists carry defibs.
If you EVER see a man carrying a defibrillator, 9 of 10 times, he's a rapist.
What's worse, the extra super clever ones, ride around in ambulances with disguises to make them look like paramedics.
Whenever I see a rapist mobile with flashing lights, I run them off the road.
I've saved at least a dozen women already this year.
To be fair there are rapist mobiles and they do have flashing lights, they just don't say "Ambulance" on them.
I could imagine someone thinking "wow he took her bra off, that was unnecessary". Since correct defib use isn't really common knowledge
It does not have to be life over dignity. There can be a middle ground they could at least provide a cover while doing their thing. I know a teen girl who changed school, did therapy and tried to sue because she once had a seizure and they stripped her naked in front everyone to save her. Her "friends" took video of her and spread it all over their school. As awful as it sounds I'm not making this up.
Fuck the other kids for taking and sharing videos, people suck.
Yup, and that's exactly why men don't help. They tried to save her, but got sued. It's really not worth it.
I'd expect the people who shared footage to be sued, not the first responders.
Why does almost no one clear the area in these posted experiences? That was covered in my (very) basic first aid training. It was emphasized, and it came with a heavy reminder that patient care should be a very high priority. I'm honestly just suprised to read all of these.
Y'all need better trainers and better Good Samaritan laws to protect you. What a world where someone just dies when they could have been saved by someone who was already nearby. Society sucks. Neither "angle" is great.
Yup, society sucks. It's probably selfish of me, but I ain't saving someone when it's possible that I get accused of SA. It's just not worth it. The hassle and the possiblilty of being labelled could affect my future and jobs.
I just did red cross CPR and AED training last week, and the materials said the clothes all need to come off (or pulled up or whatever - off the chest) but chest hair doesn't need to be shaved. Presumably the instructions change periodically.
Its probably much better to have a shaved chest, but lets be realistic. In a situation where CPR and an AED are being used, 1. you probably arent going to have a razor handy 2. the sub-optimal contact with the skin is the least of you (or the patient's) worries.
I took a course a couple of years agao and I believe they said the AEDs come with a razor
Can confirm. Almost all defibrillators come with a pack of additional supplies - including a dry razor
They also teach now to use the provided additional set of pads to basically wax the chest.
It's only an issue on very hairy chests -- i.e. full "bearskin rug" where you need to place the pads. There are patients that have so much hair the pads aren't even touching skin.
In which case you absolutely need to remove the hair. A slightly delayed initial defibrillation is better than multiple ineffective ones. Most AED kits should have a spare set of pads ("wax the chest" with the first set) or a disposable razor.
You're not going to take time to shave, every second counts. The solution is the extra adhesive pads most every AED has. You plant one of those on the the chest hair and rip, and you can get an effectively hairless spot for your lead.
The instructions say that chest hair comes off if the pad isn't sticking effectively to the chest. That means shaving if you have a razor, or using the second adhesives (kid/adult sizes usually come in the same AED kit) as ad hoc waxing devices.
Sounds like a problem for women with chest hair.
you dont have to shave chest hair, wtf are you talking about?
You don't have to, but some defibrillator kits include a razor, and when I took a CPR class, we were taught how to remove hair using either a razor or an extra set of defib pads.
That’s for excessive hair. Just make sure you both aren’t in a puddle.
They're constantly updating best practices, the kits come with a little razor now. Though we got told to apply the pad on the hair and then pull it off, effectively waxing the area. It's apparently to get better contact. Personally I think shaving would be more effective, suppose you do what you have to in the situation.
Waxing would be faster and if there's still hair you could shave it. More painful of course but if it wakes them up you can stop there.