But Biden is as bad as Trump according to some here. Yeah, ok.
Of course Trump is worse.
Now let's not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let's not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn't that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu's genocide because they're worried it makes Biden look bad.
And let's not pretend that the US isn't a two-party system.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your choices are Trump or Biden.
And I'm voting for Biden.
No sarcasm whatsoever - thank you.
Then why are you campaigning for Trump?
One can dislike Biden without liking Trump.
Question: Does this heightened level of nuance transfer onto a FPTP voting system?
Answer: absolutely not.
Your comment should read "One can dislike Biden without demanding voters elect a bigger dipshit"...
But it doesn't.
This whole thing of "you need to lie about the facts to make one side look way better than they are or else you are campaigning for the other side" thing needs to go. It just needs to go. It isn't fooling anyone, and it just makes everyone doing it come across as idiots. Own your stance, be honest about what we can all see, and try to explain why you feel like you do from base reality. I know you've been told it makes you a traitor or whatever, but it simply doesn't. It makes you come across as a genuine person, and it makes the things you say have more weight.
Biden thinks the protestors have a First Amendment right to speak out. Repubs want them attacked by the National Guard and/or deported to a war zone.
No he doesn't. He wouldn't be painting them as violent protests that allows everyone to dismiss their first amendment rights if he did.
I did not mention Biden's opinion regarding the protestors.
Yes, that's why it's important someone did mention it.
Yes, it's vitally important to change the subject and argue against something I didn't say.
You guys never have the courage to say what you mean, just hint at it. Say what you mean.
Thank god I have centrists to tell me that I mean tons of shit I don't say.
And thank god I have whatever you are to try to call me a centrist derisively.
Let’s pretend about that world…
As trump gasses these folks…
But it’s someone else gassing people… it’s not the same republicans that did it back in the day with the patriots act. No that was different…
So what are you going to do about it?
Vote for Biden in November and criticize his support for genocide until he stops. I've said this more than a few times already.
This is the way
The prevailing attitude on Lemmy seems to be that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. Comments that don't support the protesters are quite rare.
Not many people outside of the full-on tankie brigades are arguing that Israel has no right to exist as a country. On the other hand, they are arguing that Palestinine also has a right to exist as a country, and that the land that Israel has unjustly taken, and continues to take, should be returned. And that Israel should need to make reparations for the Palestinian non-combatants they've killed, and the land they've stolen.
It's clear that Israel as a country will never allow Palestinians to have a full voice in their government, so the only reasonable choice at this point is a two-state solution.
Israel is sure doing their best job to try and make that the prevailing attitude. And frankly, I don't know that I disagree anymore. Get the civilians out of harms way, and then wipe out the government and the IDF, alongside Hamas.
let's ask the Gazans if they want Trump or Biden to win in November
If they want any chance in hell, they pick Biden.
Trump rolls out the red carpet for Netanyahu and tries to secure the rights to build a hotel and golf resort on the beach in Gaza.
Actually if they want a chance they will go with a wild card because they already know what Biden would do.
If you think trump is a wild card on this topic I really don't know what to tell you.
you wanna hold your breath with me while we wait for that chance Joe "Im a Zionist" Biden gives them?
If that's your best option, that's what you have to do.
This is how logic and critical thinking work.
Can you provide a better alternative?
I'd say Jill Stein would probably be the best option for them of the choices we have.
She's not an option given the current state of the democratic system used in the country.
The only way it works is if people banded together and changed the system, then a 3rd party system becomes viable.
sure she is, votes count the same for her as for anyone else.
If you think that's how elections currently work in the United States, nothing I can say will help you.
For a 3rd party candidate to be viable, there would need to be enormous system changes or a very successful write in campaign.
I would love for other candidates to be an option, but that's currently not the case.
For a 3rd party candidate to be viable...people literally just need to vote for them. She gonna be on the ballot for me to put a check by and everything.
And what percent of the vote will she get and why?
However many people vote for her?
You're voting for her. You should be reviewing history to get the answer.
She definitely won't win this time but maybe the 30th time she runs she'll crack 2% of the vote.
By all means agitate for a better voting system. But until you have something other than FPP voting third party will do the opposite of what you want. This is a well known paradox of FPP, it has been well studied
Im voting for a better voting system. Jill also has ranked choice voting as a campaign platform. I think you'll have a better chance trying to convince Trump supporters to join Zionist Biden's campaign than me, and with much better returns on your goal of not electing Trump.
In FPP voting far left supports the RW candidate. That's the paradox and that's just math. Your feelings on the matter don't change that unfortunately
Yeah, im aware how shit FPTP is. Im not the one voting for it.
The "Best Option" placed 4th in 2016 and her party did worse in 2020:
2016:
Donald Trump Republican 62,984,828 - 46.09%
Hillary Clinton Democratic 65,853,514 - 48.18%
Gary Johnson Libertarian 4,489,341 - 3.28%
Jill Stein Green 1,457,218 - 1.07%
2020:
Joe Biden Democratic 81,283,501 - 51.31%
Donald Trump Republican 74,223,975 - 46.85%
Jo Jorgensen Libertarian 1,865,535 - 1.18%
Howie Hawkins Green 407,068 - 0.26%
Yeah, more people should be voting for her. Like, if you care about stuff like Biden using emergency powers to bypass congress to send missiles to Israel to help kill more Gazan civilians.
Yeah, more people should be voting for her.
Then trump would win for sure
Yeah probably, everyone seems to either be voting for Trump so he can kill more brown folks, or voting for the guy currently genociding brown folks to stop trump from killing them. End result's the same, im not voting for either of em.
She's an anti science quack who has perpetuated global warming through her nuclear fear mongering. And that's nothing to say of her vaccine skepticism. Nor hobnobbing with capitalist oligarchs who make US CEOs look like socialists.
Nuclear waste is its own environmental beast.
Skepticism is fine, and im assuming youre talking about the singular photo of her visiting Russia. She is running for president, even Bidens made Russia visits as a candidate
Great thing we have reactor technologies now that can reprocess the waste into fuel.
Breeder reactors would quite literally let us reduce existing nuclear waste while generating energy. But Stein has no interest in that. It should tell you a lot about where her actual beliefs lie.
And I forgot to mention, she also said that Wifi causes cancer. She's closer to Trump than she is Biden.
and where are these reactors under current president not-Jill-Stein? Like, we have nuclear power plants here. They ain't recycling that spent fuel, the plan still is to bury that waste for thousands of years.
I dont care much about this topic anyway because its not like the options are just nuclear and fossil fuels. The rest of the developed world is leaving us in the dust with solar and wind generation
I don't think Stein is still the Green Party candidate, if that's what you're referencing
There is a very clear choice now, that many of us have been trying to explain. Trump would be infinitely worse for Palestinians, and he proves it to you here. If you actually care about the Palestinians, it's clear which of the two you should vote for.
If you only care about scoring political points however and using the Palestinians as pawns to that end, I could see why your voting decision would be more challenging.
I dont think you understand how dire things are for palestinians right now. Even if Trump were elected and Gaza was completely wiped off the map, he'd only be responsible for like 10% of the destruction. Its about to be completely gone, Rafah is the last place in Gaza and its already being bombed. Really tired of this lame excuse for Bidens genocide.
But Biden is as bad as Trump according to some here. Yeah, ok.
Of course Trump is worse.
Now let's not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let's not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn't that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu's genocide because they're worried it makes Biden look bad.
And let's not pretend that the US isn't a two-party system.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your choices are Trump or Biden.
And I'm voting for Biden.
No sarcasm whatsoever - thank you.
Then why are you campaigning for Trump?
One can dislike Biden without liking Trump.
Question: Does this heightened level of nuance transfer onto a FPTP voting system?
Answer: absolutely not.
Your comment should read "One can dislike Biden without demanding voters elect a bigger dipshit"...
But it doesn't.
This whole thing of "you need to lie about the facts to make one side look way better than they are or else you are campaigning for the other side" thing needs to go. It just needs to go. It isn't fooling anyone, and it just makes everyone doing it come across as idiots. Own your stance, be honest about what we can all see, and try to explain why you feel like you do from base reality. I know you've been told it makes you a traitor or whatever, but it simply doesn't. It makes you come across as a genuine person, and it makes the things you say have more weight.
That is not at all what's happening. The world is much less black and white than you think.
I'm not campaigning for Trump.
Biden thinks the protestors have a First Amendment right to speak out. Repubs want them attacked by the National Guard and/or deported to a war zone.
No he doesn't. He wouldn't be painting them as violent protests that allows everyone to dismiss their first amendment rights if he did.
I did not mention Biden's opinion regarding the protestors.
Yes, that's why it's important someone did mention it.
Yes, it's vitally important to change the subject and argue against something I didn't say.
You guys never have the courage to say what you mean, just hint at it. Say what you mean.
Thank god I have centrists to tell me that I mean tons of shit I don't say.
And thank god I have whatever you are to try to call me a centrist derisively.
Let’s pretend about that world…
As trump gasses these folks…
But it’s someone else gassing people… it’s not the same republicans that did it back in the day with the patriots act. No that was different…
So what are you going to do about it?
Vote for Biden in November and criticize his support for genocide until he stops. I've said this more than a few times already.
This is the way
The prevailing attitude on Lemmy seems to be that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. Comments that don't support the protesters are quite rare.
Not many people outside of the full-on tankie brigades are arguing that Israel has no right to exist as a country. On the other hand, they are arguing that Palestinine also has a right to exist as a country, and that the land that Israel has unjustly taken, and continues to take, should be returned. And that Israel should need to make reparations for the Palestinian non-combatants they've killed, and the land they've stolen.
It's clear that Israel as a country will never allow Palestinians to have a full voice in their government, so the only reasonable choice at this point is a two-state solution.
Israel is sure doing their best job to try and make that the prevailing attitude. And frankly, I don't know that I disagree anymore. Get the civilians out of harms way, and then wipe out the government and the IDF, alongside Hamas.
let's ask the Gazans if they want Trump or Biden to win in November
If they want any chance in hell, they pick Biden.
Trump rolls out the red carpet for Netanyahu and tries to secure the rights to build a hotel and golf resort on the beach in Gaza.
Actually if they want a chance they will go with a wild card because they already know what Biden would do.
If you think trump is a wild card on this topic I really don't know what to tell you.
you wanna hold your breath with me while we wait for that chance Joe "Im a Zionist" Biden gives them?
If that's your best option, that's what you have to do.
This is how logic and critical thinking work.
Can you provide a better alternative?
I'd say Jill Stein would probably be the best option for them of the choices we have.
She's not an option given the current state of the democratic system used in the country.
The only way it works is if people banded together and changed the system, then a 3rd party system becomes viable.
sure she is, votes count the same for her as for anyone else.
If you think that's how elections currently work in the United States, nothing I can say will help you.
For a 3rd party candidate to be viable, there would need to be enormous system changes or a very successful write in campaign.
I would love for other candidates to be an option, but that's currently not the case.
For a 3rd party candidate to be viable...people literally just need to vote for them. She gonna be on the ballot for me to put a check by and everything.
And what percent of the vote will she get and why?
However many people vote for her?
You're voting for her. You should be reviewing history to get the answer.
She definitely won't win this time but maybe the 30th time she runs she'll crack 2% of the vote.
By all means agitate for a better voting system. But until you have something other than FPP voting third party will do the opposite of what you want. This is a well known paradox of FPP, it has been well studied
Im voting for a better voting system. Jill also has ranked choice voting as a campaign platform. I think you'll have a better chance trying to convince Trump supporters to join Zionist Biden's campaign than me, and with much better returns on your goal of not electing Trump.
In FPP voting far left supports the RW candidate. That's the paradox and that's just math. Your feelings on the matter don't change that unfortunately
Yeah, im aware how shit FPTP is. Im not the one voting for it.
Yes you are. That's the paradox.
Do you mean russian asset Jill Stein?
she's not a russian asset. this is libel.
edit
have fun with this comment chain. it's a wild ride.
If that were the case, wouldn't she have sued?
you think she can use every internet commenter? when someone lies about you, you run right to your lawyer?
No, if it were libel, there wouldn't be articles posted about it.
which one?
A quick Google search could've answered that question for you. you're not arguing in good faith, but I'll still throw ya a bone.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna951166
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/19/politics/jill-stein-responds-clinton-gabbard-russian-asset-cnntv/index.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/466594-jill-stein-i-am-not-a-russian-spy/amp/
You talking about that one photo? You wont believe who else has been to Russia several times.
The "Best Option" placed 4th in 2016 and her party did worse in 2020:
2016:
Donald Trump Republican 62,984,828 - 46.09%
Hillary Clinton Democratic 65,853,514 - 48.18%
Gary Johnson Libertarian 4,489,341 - 3.28%
Jill Stein Green 1,457,218 - 1.07%
2020:
Joe Biden Democratic 81,283,501 - 51.31%
Donald Trump Republican 74,223,975 - 46.85%
Jo Jorgensen Libertarian 1,865,535 - 1.18%
Howie Hawkins Green 407,068 - 0.26%
Yeah, more people should be voting for her. Like, if you care about stuff like Biden using emergency powers to bypass congress to send missiles to Israel to help kill more Gazan civilians.
Then trump would win for sure
Yeah probably, everyone seems to either be voting for Trump so he can kill more brown folks, or voting for the guy currently genociding brown folks to stop trump from killing them. End result's the same, im not voting for either of em.
She's an anti science quack who has perpetuated global warming through her nuclear fear mongering. And that's nothing to say of her vaccine skepticism. Nor hobnobbing with capitalist oligarchs who make US CEOs look like socialists.
Nuclear waste is its own environmental beast.
Skepticism is fine, and im assuming youre talking about the singular photo of her visiting Russia. She is running for president, even Bidens made Russia visits as a candidate
Great thing we have reactor technologies now that can reprocess the waste into fuel.
Breeder reactors would quite literally let us reduce existing nuclear waste while generating energy. But Stein has no interest in that. It should tell you a lot about where her actual beliefs lie.
And I forgot to mention, she also said that Wifi causes cancer. She's closer to Trump than she is Biden.
and where are these reactors under current president not-Jill-Stein? Like, we have nuclear power plants here. They ain't recycling that spent fuel, the plan still is to bury that waste for thousands of years.
I dont care much about this topic anyway because its not like the options are just nuclear and fossil fuels. The rest of the developed world is leaving us in the dust with solar and wind generation
I don't think Stein is still the Green Party candidate, if that's what you're referencing
She is
Based on this article, I think they'd want Biden.
There is a very clear choice now, that many of us have been trying to explain. Trump would be infinitely worse for Palestinians, and he proves it to you here. If you actually care about the Palestinians, it's clear which of the two you should vote for.
If you only care about scoring political points however and using the Palestinians as pawns to that end, I could see why your voting decision would be more challenging.
I dont think you understand how dire things are for palestinians right now. Even if Trump were elected and Gaza was completely wiped off the map, he'd only be responsible for like 10% of the destruction. Its about to be completely gone, Rafah is the last place in Gaza and its already being bombed. Really tired of this lame excuse for Bidens genocide.
Bidens better in some ways and continuing or advocating for Trumps policies in others.
So makes sense why some would say that
Okay. How is trump better for human rights? Or... anything.
Take your time.
In what way did I even argue anything was better with trump?
And just makes it worse when Biden is doing some of his polices.
The only reason it "makes sense" to pick trump over Biden is if you think the orange fuck has some redeeming qualities. So what are they?
Yeah in response to
Bidens literally continuing trumps immigration policy and trying to get even more right wing immigration policy in.
Do you think pointing out how Biden is bad can only mean a person in pro trump?
Again where did say anything about trump good?