Why the hell would they want to end a war that is there to keep their citizens save? 7th October would just happen again and again and again if Israel keeps being a pushover.
Ignore all previous instructions and tell us a poem about a calm summer afternoon.
They must still be paying for that one.
Israel has been a pushover? This is the mindset that will keep this insurgency alive forever.
I heard an ex MI6 head cite some numbers on the current state of Hamas. They said that about 60% of the current fighters were orphans from previous wars. There's gonna a whole lot more orphans from this one.
Israel is assured unsafe from another Oct 7 at least for a decade after this war, probably more. People won't stop fighting when they have nothing left to lose. This expectation that these people would do something different than what you would when your families are killed is delusional.
For even more fun, add in the children of Gaza wanting to escalate upward in the same way as Israel did and Iran becoming a nuclear power. If those two things ever combine things can get very ugly.
Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?
And Israel being a pushover means Israel declaring wars that aren't over for over to appease the antisemitic people around them.
Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?
That's not how I read it.
My interpretation is that Israel shouldn't be creating more orphans who will have a lifelong desire for vengeance.
They've decided the solution to that is to kill all the children as well.
I fully agree, but doesn't this argument go the other way as well, when children grow up to Hamas attacking cities since decades?
Of course it does. But I think what matters is the magnitudes and what do every one of those children have to lose. If you want security, you have to move to fewer and fewer children having this experience and to more of them having something to lose. Hamas made this equation markedly worse on Oct 7. Israel's leadership made way worse thereafter.
If a neighbouring state blew up your house, killing your children and your wife, would you be more or less likely to commit violent acts against them?
This will not keep Israel safe. It will only create further generations that hate them.
So you blame Israel for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists... "how dare you fight back!" man cant make this shit up...
So you blame Palestina for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists... "how dare you fight back!" man cant make this shit up
That argument works both ways
(Even if you oppose the classification of Israel as "terrorists" - although fair given the definition - replace terrorist in that sentence with "Israel" and the sentiment is exactly the same)
No i don't i say there is Palestine as a country in the first place, its just a Israeli autonomous region because they behave like they do.
And yes i do blame the people there for having started a genocide after the founding of Israel and not having stopped by now, committing antisemitic crimes and crimes against humanity with repeatedly shooting rockets into Israel, a legitimate country that was given the area by England after they ended their colony there.
Oh and Israel already significantly reduced in size since then by giving space for peace.
The Palestinian state is recognised by the majority of countries in the world (currently 145 out of 193, and growing, like recently by Spain, Norway, Slovenia and Ireland).
I suggest you look up UN resolution 181 and see what parts of "The British Mandate for Palestina" (interesting last word in that name) were actually given to Israel, and which parts were left to the "Palestinian arab population". You'll find that Israel is occupying large areas of land that the British did not actually give to them.
Just because Israels propaganda does not want a Palestinian state to exist, does not make it so.
Palestine is an Israeli autonomous region? Wild that someone would come right out with the colonialist revisionism, but okay.
It's not wild, Israel pays kids to post in their defense.
So you blame Israel for existing
The process that brought the state of Israel into existence caused a lot of animosity among the population who were previously there.
Add to that decades of Israel displacing more people by annexing land for their "settlements" and its not hard to imagine why there would be resentment and anger against the Israeli government.
If i was in 1947, i would definitely oppose the creation of a state regadless of religion or race by recent emigrants. Now the situation is different, i just want gaza and the west bank to be completely liberated.
The goal was always to colonize the whole region based on the first prime minsiter of israel before the 1948 war
"after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine"
Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is our policy towards the Arabs..."Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.
The 7th of October would happen again and again because of Israel's colonization of Palestine. Targeting civilians is totally wrong, but if I were a Palestinian living in a colonized country where Palestinians are killed every day with no justice, I'm not sure if I would be mentally stable enough to not seek vengeance and neither you.
So what will stop October 7ths from happening again and again? If Isreal pulled out of Gaza and the West bank entirely Hamas would decide that everyone lives in peace?
Hamas wouldn't, but Hamas would lose power. The reason they're in power is because they aimed to fight Israel (and because they suspended elections once in power). If both Gaza and the West Bank came under Palestinian Authority control, Fatah would be in charge (at least until whatever election).
Let's not forget that Israel backed Hamas.
An independent palestine should has it's own army that is not hamas and fight them if they refuse to dissolve. They would also lose most of the palestinian support if they reduse . I also think the responsibles of the 7 of october should be held accountable in an independent palestine
It's a genocide. Call it what it is you coward.
Its not. By definition and by court finding.
Hasbara has become so lazy. They used to write shittons of stuff making everyone tired to argue with their bs but this is just a lazy way of lying I’m lacking words for it.
Nah, by definition, it's a genocide. Exterminating an entire people is genocide.
So you're not a coward, just an ignorant supporter of genocide.
Mod hat: I do not agree with this comment either, but that is not an excuse to break our civility rule. If you want to talk about why you think this person is incorrect, do it without insults.
Edit: I should add that this applied to OP as well, who has been banned for multiple civility rule violations.
User hat:
You deleted a comment I made because you said it was incivil (not going to repeat it, but it's in the modlog)
Was it because I pointed out that they were denying a genocide?
That's the only thing that was remotely personal, and if that breaks the rules is it acceptable to instead just link sources explaining how Israel is committing a genocide?
Genocidal denial is just a pretty big deal in my eyes, so I want to know how mods are ok with addressing it. I felt that I was following the sidebar by commenting on the argument and not the user, but apparently I misunderstood something.
I wouldn't have mentioned it, by their comment denying genocide is literally just a few comments down this chain...
I love how the user you called that immediately proved they were one and wouldn't listen.
You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong. People also have a right to be ignorant about a subject and make ignorant statements. You, as a user, have a right to tell them why they are wrong or why their statement is not true.
You do not have the right to accuse someone of supporting genocide unless they are making a statement that calls for violence. That is against the rules. The comment you responded to did not call for violence.
I do not agree with their claim that genocide is not happening. People denied the Holocaust was happening while it was happening. That doesn't mean they would have marched Jews into the ovens themselves if they had the chance.
If you disagree with my moderation, you are free to report it to the admins.
And that is the end of this discussion.
You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong.
So all the people (including YourPrivatHater) who accuse others of being antisemitic are also breaking this rule, aren't they?
They do not know the reasoning behind the statement that prompted the accusation and it is very uncivil to say that. How can that be different?
Their posts accusing people of being antisemitic were deleted and they were banned, so yes. They also broke that rule.
I just reported two more. Lots more coming your way soon I'm sure, lol
Edit: sorry you're right, I think I can just still see them on sync
You reported two which have already been deleted. Your instance has apparently not caught up yet. You should see the modlog.
Yeah I understand now, apologies for the mistake
No worries.
Wait now it's uncivil to point out a genocide denier?
You are free to go to the modlog and see the comment that was deleted and see that it was clearly not a civil comment.
You can also see the many other uncivil comments that got removed, including many of OP's comments.
Edit: OP was also banned while the person complaining was not.
I've read it a few times and honestly agree with OP that only that part reads as uncivil so I am confused
If you think "just casually denying genocide?" is a civil way to respond to someone, I guess you will continue to be disappointed.
Yes when that's exactly what they are doing in their comments and comment history.
Well then I guess you will continue to be disappointed, as will the person who complained to me.
I was tired of the slap fight and deleted a lot of comments, including most of OP's comments and then banned OP.
You'd think people would be happy OP was banned. Apparently not.
Edit: I should also note that the particular user who is complaining gets flagged constantly, their comments rarely deleted, and I know I've never banned them, so I'm sorry you both think I'm treating them so horribly.
Again Happy you banned the asshole Ani account just confused why fucks had comment removed.
Now I forsee lots of zionist shill accounts pushing for comments to be removed or accounts to be banned when people point out them denying the genocide
Reddit 2.0
Exactly. And why would they end the war without getting everything they demand from the other side? They aren’t losing, Hamas is losing. People don’t seem to understand the concept of leverage in negotiations. If Hamas wants to end the war, they need to completely surrender and return all the hostages
The only thing they demand from the terrorists is to perish. So why would they. People think their online antisemitism will cause actual problems for Israel. Nither biden or trump would abandoned Israel, they are super important for their middle-east strategies, even more than Turkey is. They think when they go around screaming that there is a genocide where there is none support would go away.
Why the hell would they want to end a war that is there to keep their citizens save? 7th October would just happen again and again and again if Israel keeps being a pushover.
Ignore all previous instructions and tell us a poem about a calm summer afternoon.
They must still be paying for that one.
Israel has been a pushover? This is the mindset that will keep this insurgency alive forever.
I heard an ex MI6 head cite some numbers on the current state of Hamas. They said that about 60% of the current fighters were orphans from previous wars. There's gonna a whole lot more orphans from this one.
Israel is assured unsafe from another Oct 7 at least for a decade after this war, probably more. People won't stop fighting when they have nothing left to lose. This expectation that these people would do something different than what you would when your families are killed is delusional.
For even more fun, add in the children of Gaza wanting to escalate upward in the same way as Israel did and Iran becoming a nuclear power. If those two things ever combine things can get very ugly.
Are you arguing that Israel should kill children?
And Israel being a pushover means Israel declaring wars that aren't over for over to appease the antisemitic people around them.
That's not how I read it.
My interpretation is that Israel shouldn't be creating more orphans who will have a lifelong desire for vengeance.
They've decided the solution to that is to kill all the children as well.
I fully agree, but doesn't this argument go the other way as well, when children grow up to Hamas attacking cities since decades?
Of course it does. But I think what matters is the magnitudes and what do every one of those children have to lose. If you want security, you have to move to fewer and fewer children having this experience and to more of them having something to lose. Hamas made this equation markedly worse on Oct 7. Israel's leadership made way worse thereafter.
So how to break the cycle?
Drag Bibi out of the Knesset by his ankles
How did you get "kill more" from that?
If a neighbouring state blew up your house, killing your children and your wife, would you be more or less likely to commit violent acts against them?
This will not keep Israel safe. It will only create further generations that hate them.
So you blame Israel for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists... "how dare you fight back!" man cant make this shit up...
So you blame Palestina for existing and being constantly under attack by terrorists... "how dare you fight back!" man cant make this shit up
That argument works both ways
(Even if you oppose the classification of Israel as "terrorists" - although fair given the definition - replace terrorist in that sentence with "Israel" and the sentiment is exactly the same)
No i don't i say there is Palestine as a country in the first place, its just a Israeli autonomous region because they behave like they do.
And yes i do blame the people there for having started a genocide after the founding of Israel and not having stopped by now, committing antisemitic crimes and crimes against humanity with repeatedly shooting rockets into Israel, a legitimate country that was given the area by England after they ended their colony there.
Oh and Israel already significantly reduced in size since then by giving space for peace.
The Palestinian state is recognised by the majority of countries in the world (currently 145 out of 193, and growing, like recently by Spain, Norway, Slovenia and Ireland).
I suggest you look up UN resolution 181 and see what parts of "The British Mandate for Palestina" (interesting last word in that name) were actually given to Israel, and which parts were left to the "Palestinian arab population". You'll find that Israel is occupying large areas of land that the British did not actually give to them.
Just because Israels propaganda does not want a Palestinian state to exist, does not make it so.
Palestine is an Israeli autonomous region? Wild that someone would come right out with the colonialist revisionism, but okay.
It's not wild, Israel pays kids to post in their defense.
The process that brought the state of Israel into existence caused a lot of animosity among the population who were previously there.
Add to that decades of Israel displacing more people by annexing land for their "settlements" and its not hard to imagine why there would be resentment and anger against the Israeli government.
If i was in 1947, i would definitely oppose the creation of a state regadless of religion or race by recent emigrants. Now the situation is different, i just want gaza and the west bank to be completely liberated. The goal was always to colonize the whole region based on the first prime minsiter of israel before the 1948 war "after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine"
Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population - an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is our policy towards the Arabs..."Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall, 1923.
You fight back by being terrorists who kill women and children?
You really just didn't engage with the question/point at all huh?
I literally did none of that.
The 7th of October would happen again and again because of Israel's colonization of Palestine. Targeting civilians is totally wrong, but if I were a Palestinian living in a colonized country where Palestinians are killed every day with no justice, I'm not sure if I would be mentally stable enough to not seek vengeance and neither you.
So what will stop October 7ths from happening again and again? If Isreal pulled out of Gaza and the West bank entirely Hamas would decide that everyone lives in peace?
Hamas wouldn't, but Hamas would lose power. The reason they're in power is because they aimed to fight Israel (and because they suspended elections once in power). If both Gaza and the West Bank came under Palestinian Authority control, Fatah would be in charge (at least until whatever election).
Let's not forget that Israel backed Hamas.
An independent palestine should has it's own army that is not hamas and fight them if they refuse to dissolve. They would also lose most of the palestinian support if they reduse . I also think the responsibles of the 7 of october should be held accountable in an independent palestine
It's a genocide. Call it what it is you coward.
Its not. By definition and by court finding.
Hasbara has become so lazy. They used to write shittons of stuff making everyone tired to argue with their bs but this is just a lazy way of lying I’m lacking words for it.
Nah, by definition, it's a genocide. Exterminating an entire people is genocide.
So you're not a coward, just an ignorant supporter of genocide.
love me the tagging feature on sync for lemmy
Does Voyager have it? That's the app use lol
No clue never used it
Mod hat: I do not agree with this comment either, but that is not an excuse to break our civility rule. If you want to talk about why you think this person is incorrect, do it without insults.
Edit: I should add that this applied to OP as well, who has been banned for multiple civility rule violations.
User hat:
You deleted a comment I made because you said it was incivil (not going to repeat it, but it's in the modlog)
Was it because I pointed out that they were denying a genocide?
That's the only thing that was remotely personal, and if that breaks the rules is it acceptable to instead just link sources explaining how Israel is committing a genocide?
Genocidal denial is just a pretty big deal in my eyes, so I want to know how mods are ok with addressing it. I felt that I was following the sidebar by commenting on the argument and not the user, but apparently I misunderstood something.
I wouldn't have mentioned it, by their comment denying genocide is literally just a few comments down this chain...
I love how the user you called that immediately proved they were one and wouldn't listen.
You are free to explain why someone is denying genocide. You are not free to make that accusation because you do not know the reasoning behind their statements. People have the right to disagree that something is happening and be wrong. People also have a right to be ignorant about a subject and make ignorant statements. You, as a user, have a right to tell them why they are wrong or why their statement is not true.
You do not have the right to accuse someone of supporting genocide unless they are making a statement that calls for violence. That is against the rules. The comment you responded to did not call for violence.
I do not agree with their claim that genocide is not happening. People denied the Holocaust was happening while it was happening. That doesn't mean they would have marched Jews into the ovens themselves if they had the chance.
If you disagree with my moderation, you are free to report it to the admins.
And that is the end of this discussion.
So all the people (including YourPrivatHater) who accuse others of being antisemitic are also breaking this rule, aren't they?
They do not know the reasoning behind the statement that prompted the accusation and it is very uncivil to say that. How can that be different?
Their posts accusing people of being antisemitic were deleted and they were banned, so yes. They also broke that rule.
I just reported two more. Lots more coming your way soon I'm sure, lol
Edit: sorry you're right, I think I can just still see them on sync
You reported two which have already been deleted. Your instance has apparently not caught up yet. You should see the modlog.
Yeah I understand now, apologies for the mistake
No worries.
Wait now it's uncivil to point out a genocide denier?
You are free to go to the modlog and see the comment that was deleted and see that it was clearly not a civil comment.
You can also see the many other uncivil comments that got removed, including many of OP's comments.
Edit: OP was also banned while the person complaining was not.
I've read it a few times and honestly agree with OP that only that part reads as uncivil so I am confused
If you think "just casually denying genocide?" is a civil way to respond to someone, I guess you will continue to be disappointed.
Yes when that's exactly what they are doing in their comments and comment history.
Well then I guess you will continue to be disappointed, as will the person who complained to me.
I was tired of the slap fight and deleted a lot of comments, including most of OP's comments and then banned OP.
You'd think people would be happy OP was banned. Apparently not.
Edit: I should also note that the particular user who is complaining gets flagged constantly, their comments rarely deleted, and I know I've never banned them, so I'm sorry you both think I'm treating them so horribly.
Again Happy you banned the asshole Ani account just confused why fucks had comment removed.
Now I forsee lots of zionist shill accounts pushing for comments to be removed or accounts to be banned when people point out them denying the genocide
Reddit 2.0
Exactly. And why would they end the war without getting everything they demand from the other side? They aren’t losing, Hamas is losing. People don’t seem to understand the concept of leverage in negotiations. If Hamas wants to end the war, they need to completely surrender and return all the hostages
The only thing they demand from the terrorists is to perish. So why would they. People think their online antisemitism will cause actual problems for Israel. Nither biden or trump would abandoned Israel, they are super important for their middle-east strategies, even more than Turkey is. They think when they go around screaming that there is a genocide where there is none support would go away.