What is "feminist propaganda" and what would COVID-19 have anything to do with the game? What would either of those have to do with the game? Isn't it based on the legend of the monkey king? Are they afraid they'll make a meme of him spreading COVID to kill his enemies or something?
In the conspiracy theories groups China is a hot topic, and I believe this is them telling influencers (who they give a free copy) to stick to the game instead of talking about the country they happen to live in. And I would assume if people stuck to the game few of these topics would be relevant.
Now if an influencer had an issue with say, allegations misogyny at the studio, I would expect them to -
not accept the game from the studio
maybe create content on why they refused the offer of a free game and things they think would need to change to allow them to work with the studio in the future.
You would have thought that by now they would have realized that explicitly banning people from talking about a subject is basically a method to guarantee that they do.
It's a Chinese game developer. These are the things they're sensitive to. COVID started in China and I guess feminist is a big fucking red flag for women in China?
Hehe, red flag, China...
It’s a Chinese game developer. These are the things they’re sensitive to. COVID started in China and I guess feminist is a big fucking red flag for women in China?
The Black Myth: Wukong sexism controversy stems from employee reports that developers at Game Science have been making sexist comments for many years, and there’s a suggestion the company doesn’t want women playing its games.
I wonder if any of this has been corroborated. I feel more conflicted about this kind of stuff recently because for every one asshole saying awful shit there are hundreds of other people that poured years of their life into making a game like this.
It's Chinese developer so I wouldn't be that surprised that their sexist it just seems to be a very common viewpoint in China.
They obviously know it's unacceptable because they don't want to be brought up on it. But rather than improved they're just going to ban discussion of it or at least try to it won't work of course. We're talking about it after all.
The dev has a storied past^[1] of sexism and misogyny, so this shouldn't come as a surprise. The COVID stuff is amusing but unsurprising considering it's a Chinese studio.
Reading through that made me feel gross. It does seem to be acknowledged by women in China as a cultural issue (as well as globally online).
Sexism is, and continues to be, a global problem. But the difference, as both Zhong and Monica F. pointed out, is that the Chinese government and overall cultural attitudes continue to actively discourage women and their allies from fighting back. There’s no one telling harassers “no.”
This feels like the second round of this going around as the AI articles / lazy sites pick it up.
It's a doc 'sent' to one guy who had 12 followers on medium before this started blowing up. It was edited after it was sent out to be the real marketing email of the company instead of a gmail address. The doc is still owned by that gmail account, which isn't typically how companies operate.
I guess they're getting their viral moment so good for them for generating content?
Funny how quickly free speech drops dead whenever right-wing snowflakes get involved.
I didn't realize they even had freedom of speech in China.
Right wing Chinese communists you mean? Good one...
What's funny is anyone thinking Chinese government has anything to do with communism.
It's just fascism at this point mascarading as communism. Rather like Russia in that regard.
China has plenty of right wingers and social conservatives living there. They just can’t organize for their beliefs outside of the existing political structures.
Hahahaha, wow, what a bunch of wet noodles. If you don't want negative discourse, maybe don't be misogynistic. Or don't publish your work in countries where free speech and personal freedoms are more abundant. No one is forcing you to publish here, so please keep your demands in your pants. Pffft, I was really interested in this game, now it's such an easy pass!
Out of curiosity, since I’m out of the loop, what is the misogynistic discourse around the game or studio? Is it based on themes of the books/mythology the game is based on? Or is it some other thing the devs went too far with eastern culture wise?
I read some articles from 2020 that touched on the culture @ Game Science, but it doesn't even really matter. It's just the way they single out stuff that feels really put of touch, pretty (ignorant) boomer attitude. I've only heard the word "feminist propaganda" from folks who are misogynistic, it's not something I associate with caring about inequality. Can you imagine being a woman influencer that got this message? I would think 3 times before partnering up with a party that gave me this dos and don't list.
It's probably something that can be attributed to cultural differences, but that doesn't mean that much to me. You move in a culture, but you are still responsible for you actions and words.
Thank you. I mainly wanted to know what the talking points are so I can have effective conversations with the people around. This one semi popped out of nowhere for me and I felt I missed something.
Agreed, the term “feminist propaganda” alone here is enough to make me question the studio/publisher leadership group.
@Chee_Koala, I’ve read your other comment on this post and I agree with you. Going to pass on the game. It’s the reality of today. If we want things to improve we have to vote with our democratic right to vote if we have it or we vote with our money. This type of topic pops up a lot in media, big tech and most other large companies that somewhat dominate an industry. There are enough options out there where we can’t always make the perfect moral decision, but we can at least try to choose on the lesser of many evils in our shopping and media consumption based on the information we have.
Thanks a lot, I can imagine! It's moot for me, sadly. Google maps is amazing too but I'm not on board with choices they are making so, can't use that either. There's enough games to take my mind of of missing this title. Have fun though!
Understandable but none of the claims against the company have any ground. All of them anonymous and yet to mean something.
🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
Denuvo 😓.
Edit: Down voted for saying it has denuvo. Reddit 2.0.
Oh, right. It hasn't been cracked yet.
The guidelines are also likely in place to avoid mention of previous reports of misogyny at the studio. Posts from Game Science CEO Féng Jì including sexualised and misogynistic language were reported on in 2020, while IGN also reported on the studio's history with sexism.
Lol, a Streisand effect here.
However, it's clear Game Science, through Hero Games, is keen to control the narrative around Black Myth: Wukong to avoid negative coverage and ensure focus is on the game itself.
Given that this is the first I've heard of this game and I know nothing about the game itself, I feel they've shot themselves in the foot a little, eh?
Nah for a while now, this was highly anticipated within the gaming community. Journalists have covered allegations and controversies but honestly no one really cared. People wanted a good game and they got one. Politics or not, their steam review is 96% at overwhelmingly positive.
I was wondering what "feminist propaganda" was and apparently it's talking about misogyny.
Another forbidden topic seemed to be targeted at criticism of misogyny at Game Science. The company has come under fire for lewd and sexist comments attributed in media reports to its founders as well as recruiting materials from 2015 replete with sexual innuendos. Those original job postings and comments were deleted, and the company has not commented.https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/20/world/asia/chinese-videogame-wukong-censorship.html
It's probably easier to control that effect over there, not so much on western countries.
Well now I wish I was an influencer so that I could get paid for giving China the middle finger.
excuse me wtf
Pirate the fuck out of this game, got it
I was excited to play this game until I saw this. Now I kinda don't want to play it.
For anyone not clicking thru:
In full, the don'ts are:
Do NOT insult other influencers or players.
Do NOT use any offensive language/humour.
Do NOT include politics, violence, nudity, feminist propaganda, fetishisation, and other content that instigates negative discourse.
Do NOT use trigger words such as 'quarantine' or 'isolation' or 'Covid-19'.
Do NOT discuss content related to China's game industry policies, opinions, news, etc.
I see this as them wanting influencers to focus on their game, instead of using the game as a platform to wade into these other topics that focus on the country they happen to live in. And this being an election year in the US ,and the Right having spread wild conspiracy theories about China for years now, them not wanting any of that stuff to overshadow their art doesn't seem all that crazy of a take. Basically they are saying they want influencers to talk about the game and to leave politics to /c/politics.
Oh and this is of course only sent to influencers, so just people they are giving the game to for free. The rest of the world (including influencers that buy their own copy) are of course free to do whatever they are legally allowed to in their jurisdiction.
Edit - I just want to add an edit after reading the IGN article someone linked above, that I am not siding with or defending any of the gross things coming from people working at this studio. And I guess this would come down to if people can separate the art from the artist, which I personally struggle with in many instances.
The use of “feminist propaganda” over “misogyny” seems very deliberate.
Yes, because it seems the studio doesn't have any problem with misogyny
Oh for sure. I do wonder what part the Chinese government takes in shaping the wording of "exports" like this too.
None, Azur Lane chinese is completely different and censored from Azur Lane's JP and global versions.
I might give them the benefit of the doubt and say its a translation issue
Fucking pathetic
Are analogies using A.A. Milne characters OK for describing the game?
Oh bother...
Somewhat off topic, but the names of both the publisher and the developer are also used by unrelated tabletop game companies. Hero Games makes the Hero System tabletop RPG, and GameScience (no space, so there's a difference) make dice. It threw me for a loop.
I'm not sure how that's supposed to be relevant to the game and reviews of it anyway?
The studio and the CEO have a history of misoginy and sexism, so they're trying to block reviewers to speak about it
Well that explains something, but honestly it has nothing to do with the actual game itself. Would be kinda weird if reviewers focused on that instead of the game.
Yes, who cares if Putin releases a game as long as it's good?
It's a difficult issue. If Putin did release a game, did we know beforehand? How widespread was the knowledge? How did this info come to light?
I guess it's similar to reports about crunch culture in many game studios. Do we want to support that and buy the game?
Or sexual harassment by C-level, same question.
Many people might not care, but some do and it's still information to consider.
Did he release this game?
Considering the downvotes I take that as a no, and ya'll ran out of other dumb arguments. 🙄
Yes, you are right. Everyone had to draw the line themselves. And if you only stop buying a game if it is from Putin, that is indeed your decision.
But it obviously also means, that you do made your decision not only on the game itself. So I am not sure what your argument is here.
You are avoiding the question.
What does Putin have to do with this?
I am sure you know that, but if not:
I am using Putin as an extreme example to discuss the broader question of whether the ethics and actions of creators should influence consumer decisions, and not because Putin is directly related to the situation being discussed.
Even if a notorious figure like Putin were to release a game, some people, like you in this case, might argue that the game's quality alone should be the deciding factor in whether to support it, while others might refuse to support it based on the creator's actions or background.
I was just trying to find out if there is a line you are not going to cross or if you will play it no matter the circumstances as long as you think the game is good. And as it turns out, based on this conversation, there is a line for you and it's literally "the game was created by Putin"
That's an extremely oversimplified and overexaggerated comparison of someone comitting war crimes versus misogyny.
Supporting the game has nothing to do with it, just because people enjoy the game because it's a good game doesn't mean they support misogyny, same goes for the many developers that worked on the game.
It also doesn't explain the other stuff they requested to not mention in game coverage, all of which seem to have nothing to do with the actual game.
You are judging the entire team of probably 100+ developers by one man's actions and act like everyone that supports the game supports war crimes. That's a batshit insane take.
Of course it is exaggerated. That is the point of a hyperbolic arguments.
Examining hypothetical edge cases in more detail is a useful tool for defining where the issues lie in a debate.
Would you support/play a game of 100+ devs if key management DID commit war crimes?
I'd like to think probably not.
It's though it is clear from your response that misogyny isn't a deal-breaker for you for this case, so the question then becomes; how shitty does a single person need to be before it becomes an issue for you then?
Other people drew a line in the sand at misogyny and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact I'd say it is a respectable opinion.
You probably would prefer to just ignore any controversy and just judge the game on its merits alone, and that is fine in its own way too. It is exhausting keeping up with the news and you would be happier and find it easier to just blindly enjoy a game.
But don't pretend that just because you are ignoring it, doesn't mean that you aren't supporting bad practices like misogyny when you do so.
So we've moved on from no minorities to whatever we can find?
So a video of the game overlaid by a feminist manifesto?
hows is that witch-hunt going?
IGN's hitpiece was very iffy in the first place, with mistranslated "tweets" from one of the devs weibo and all, but by doing these guidelines they gave ammunition to these people, I'm glad the game is doing well at least so hopefully china keeps making good, AAA games that aren't also gacha for once.
Naturally, you're getting downvoted into oblivion for recognizing a hit-piece when you see one.
What is "feminist propaganda" and what would COVID-19 have anything to do with the game? What would either of those have to do with the game? Isn't it based on the legend of the monkey king? Are they afraid they'll make a meme of him spreading COVID to kill his enemies or something?
In the conspiracy theories groups China is a hot topic, and I believe this is them telling influencers (who they give a free copy) to stick to the game instead of talking about the country they happen to live in. And I would assume if people stuck to the game few of these topics would be relevant.
Now if an influencer had an issue with say, allegations misogyny at the studio, I would expect them to -
not accept the game from the studio
maybe create content on why they refused the offer of a free game and things they think would need to change to allow them to work with the studio in the future.
You would have thought that by now they would have realized that explicitly banning people from talking about a subject is basically a method to guarantee that they do.
It's a Chinese game developer. These are the things they're sensitive to. COVID started in China and I guess feminist is a big fucking red flag for women in China?
Hehe, red flag, China...
https://dotesports.com/black-myth-wukong/news/black-myth-wukong-developer-controversy-explained
I wonder if any of this has been corroborated. I feel more conflicted about this kind of stuff recently because for every one asshole saying awful shit there are hundreds of other people that poured years of their life into making a game like this.
It's Chinese developer so I wouldn't be that surprised that their sexist it just seems to be a very common viewpoint in China.
They obviously know it's unacceptable because they don't want to be brought up on it. But rather than improved they're just going to ban discussion of it or at least try to it won't work of course. We're talking about it after all.
The dev has a storied past^[1] of sexism and misogyny, so this shouldn't come as a surprise. The COVID stuff is amusing but unsurprising considering it's a Chinese studio.
Reading through that made me feel gross. It does seem to be acknowledged by women in China as a cultural issue (as well as globally online).
This feels like the second round of this going around as the AI articles / lazy sites pick it up.
It's a doc 'sent' to one guy who had 12 followers on medium before this started blowing up. It was edited after it was sent out to be the real marketing email of the company instead of a gmail address. The doc is still owned by that gmail account, which isn't typically how companies operate.
I guess they're getting their viral moment so good for them for generating content?
Funny how quickly free speech drops dead whenever right-wing snowflakes get involved.
I didn't realize they even had freedom of speech in China.
Right wing Chinese communists you mean? Good one...
What's funny is anyone thinking Chinese government has anything to do with communism.
It's just fascism at this point mascarading as communism. Rather like Russia in that regard.
China has plenty of right wingers and social conservatives living there. They just can’t organize for their beliefs outside of the existing political structures.
Hahahaha, wow, what a bunch of wet noodles. If you don't want negative discourse, maybe don't be misogynistic. Or don't publish your work in countries where free speech and personal freedoms are more abundant. No one is forcing you to publish here, so please keep your demands in your pants. Pffft, I was really interested in this game, now it's such an easy pass!
Out of curiosity, since I’m out of the loop, what is the misogynistic discourse around the game or studio? Is it based on themes of the books/mythology the game is based on? Or is it some other thing the devs went too far with eastern culture wise?
I read some articles from 2020 that touched on the culture @ Game Science, but it doesn't even really matter. It's just the way they single out stuff that feels really put of touch, pretty (ignorant) boomer attitude. I've only heard the word "feminist propaganda" from folks who are misogynistic, it's not something I associate with caring about inequality. Can you imagine being a woman influencer that got this message? I would think 3 times before partnering up with a party that gave me this dos and don't list.
It's probably something that can be attributed to cultural differences, but that doesn't mean that much to me. You move in a culture, but you are still responsible for you actions and words.
Thank you. I mainly wanted to know what the talking points are so I can have effective conversations with the people around. This one semi popped out of nowhere for me and I felt I missed something.
Agreed, the term “feminist propaganda” alone here is enough to make me question the studio/publisher leadership group.
@Chee_Koala, I’ve read your other comment on this post and I agree with you. Going to pass on the game. It’s the reality of today. If we want things to improve we have to vote with our democratic right to vote if we have it or we vote with our money. This type of topic pops up a lot in media, big tech and most other large companies that somewhat dominate an industry. There are enough options out there where we can’t always make the perfect moral decision, but we can at least try to choose on the lesser of many evils in our shopping and media consumption based on the information we have.
https://dotesports.com/black-myth-wukong/news/black-myth-wukong-developer-controversy-explained
The game is insane. You are just missing out.
Thanks a lot, I can imagine! It's moot for me, sadly. Google maps is amazing too but I'm not on board with choices they are making so, can't use that either. There's enough games to take my mind of of missing this title. Have fun though!
Understandable but none of the claims against the company have any ground. All of them anonymous and yet to mean something.
🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
Denuvo 😓. Edit: Down voted for saying it has denuvo. Reddit 2.0.
Oh, right. It hasn't been cracked yet.
Lol, a Streisand effect here.
Given that this is the first I've heard of this game and I know nothing about the game itself, I feel they've shot themselves in the foot a little, eh?
Nah for a while now, this was highly anticipated within the gaming community. Journalists have covered allegations and controversies but honestly no one really cared. People wanted a good game and they got one. Politics or not, their steam review is 96% at overwhelmingly positive.
I was wondering what "feminist propaganda" was and apparently it's talking about misogyny.
Another forbidden topic seemed to be targeted at criticism of misogyny at Game Science. The company has come under fire for lewd and sexist comments attributed in media reports to its founders as well as recruiting materials from 2015 replete with sexual innuendos. Those original job postings and comments were deleted, and the company has not commented. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/20/world/asia/chinese-videogame-wukong-censorship.html
But this anti feminism attitude is not limited to this 1 gaming company, but government policy under Xi Jinping's authoritarian rule: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-08/feminism-in-china-internet-crackdown-erase-womens-voices/100165360
Thanks for sharing this. I wasn't going to buy this game,but now I'm convinced I won't. Will wait for empress to turn denuvo intro their bitch.
Oh yeah but then there will be another unhinged controversy.
I guess they've never heard of the Streisand effect in China.
It's probably easier to control that effect over there, not so much on western countries.
Well now I wish I was an influencer so that I could get paid for giving China the middle finger.
excuse me wtf
Pirate the fuck out of this game, got it
I was excited to play this game until I saw this. Now I kinda don't want to play it.
For anyone not clicking thru:
Do NOT use any offensive language/humour.
Do NOT include politics, violence, nudity, feminist propaganda, fetishisation, and other content that instigates negative discourse.
Do NOT use trigger words such as 'quarantine' or 'isolation' or 'Covid-19'.
Do NOT discuss content related to China's game industry policies, opinions, news, etc.
I see this as them wanting influencers to focus on their game, instead of using the game as a platform to wade into these other topics that focus on the country they happen to live in. And this being an election year in the US ,and the Right having spread wild conspiracy theories about China for years now, them not wanting any of that stuff to overshadow their art doesn't seem all that crazy of a take. Basically they are saying they want influencers to talk about the game and to leave politics to /c/politics.
Oh and this is of course only sent to influencers, so just people they are giving the game to for free. The rest of the world (including influencers that buy their own copy) are of course free to do whatever they are legally allowed to in their jurisdiction.
Edit - I just want to add an edit after reading the IGN article someone linked above, that I am not siding with or defending any of the gross things coming from people working at this studio. And I guess this would come down to if people can separate the art from the artist, which I personally struggle with in many instances.
The use of “feminist propaganda” over “misogyny” seems very deliberate.
Yes, because it seems the studio doesn't have any problem with misogyny
Oh for sure. I do wonder what part the Chinese government takes in shaping the wording of "exports" like this too.
None, Azur Lane chinese is completely different and censored from Azur Lane's JP and global versions.
I might give them the benefit of the doubt and say its a translation issue
Fucking pathetic
Are analogies using A.A. Milne characters OK for describing the game?
Oh bother...
Somewhat off topic, but the names of both the publisher and the developer are also used by unrelated tabletop game companies. Hero Games makes the Hero System tabletop RPG, and GameScience (no space, so there's a difference) make dice. It threw me for a loop.
I'm not sure how that's supposed to be relevant to the game and reviews of it anyway?
The studio and the CEO have a history of misoginy and sexism, so they're trying to block reviewers to speak about it
Well that explains something, but honestly it has nothing to do with the actual game itself. Would be kinda weird if reviewers focused on that instead of the game.
Yes, who cares if Putin releases a game as long as it's good?
It's a difficult issue. If Putin did release a game, did we know beforehand? How widespread was the knowledge? How did this info come to light?
I guess it's similar to reports about crunch culture in many game studios. Do we want to support that and buy the game?
Or sexual harassment by C-level, same question.
Many people might not care, but some do and it's still information to consider.
Did he release this game?
Considering the downvotes I take that as a no, and ya'll ran out of other dumb arguments. 🙄
Yes, you are right. Everyone had to draw the line themselves. And if you only stop buying a game if it is from Putin, that is indeed your decision. But it obviously also means, that you do made your decision not only on the game itself. So I am not sure what your argument is here.
You are avoiding the question.
What does Putin have to do with this?
I am sure you know that, but if not:
I am using Putin as an extreme example to discuss the broader question of whether the ethics and actions of creators should influence consumer decisions, and not because Putin is directly related to the situation being discussed. Even if a notorious figure like Putin were to release a game, some people, like you in this case, might argue that the game's quality alone should be the deciding factor in whether to support it, while others might refuse to support it based on the creator's actions or background. I was just trying to find out if there is a line you are not going to cross or if you will play it no matter the circumstances as long as you think the game is good. And as it turns out, based on this conversation, there is a line for you and it's literally "the game was created by Putin"
That's an extremely oversimplified and overexaggerated comparison of someone comitting war crimes versus misogyny.
Supporting the game has nothing to do with it, just because people enjoy the game because it's a good game doesn't mean they support misogyny, same goes for the many developers that worked on the game.
It also doesn't explain the other stuff they requested to not mention in game coverage, all of which seem to have nothing to do with the actual game.
You are judging the entire team of probably 100+ developers by one man's actions and act like everyone that supports the game supports war crimes. That's a batshit insane take.
Of course it is exaggerated. That is the point of a hyperbolic arguments.
Examining hypothetical edge cases in more detail is a useful tool for defining where the issues lie in a debate.
Would you support/play a game of 100+ devs if key management DID commit war crimes? I'd like to think probably not.
It's though it is clear from your response that misogyny isn't a deal-breaker for you for this case, so the question then becomes; how shitty does a single person need to be before it becomes an issue for you then?
Other people drew a line in the sand at misogyny and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact I'd say it is a respectable opinion.
You probably would prefer to just ignore any controversy and just judge the game on its merits alone, and that is fine in its own way too. It is exhausting keeping up with the news and you would be happier and find it easier to just blindly enjoy a game.
But don't pretend that just because you are ignoring it, doesn't mean that you aren't supporting bad practices like misogyny when you do so.
So we've moved on from no minorities to whatever we can find?
So a video of the game overlaid by a feminist manifesto?
hows is that witch-hunt going?
IGN's hitpiece was very iffy in the first place, with mistranslated "tweets" from one of the devs weibo and all, but by doing these guidelines they gave ammunition to these people, I'm glad the game is doing well at least so hopefully china keeps making good, AAA games that aren't also gacha for once.
Naturally, you're getting downvoted into oblivion for recognizing a hit-piece when you see one.