NSFW instance lemmynsfw - drawn NSFW content (updated)
Reddit Migration@kbin.social – 59 points – SEE SECOND EDIT DOWN BELOW
Lets not beat around the bush here, lots of people like to look at boobs and dicks.
Lemmynsfw was looking like a good place to go, but reading the "Loli" announcement thread where they equate drawn child porn to petite women, its clear the owner is not the right person to be hosting a NSFW instance for the majority of people.
Is there anywhere else that people can recommend?
There is undoubtably a need for such an instance. Can we discuss this like adults?
edit: UPDATE
I'm taking it as a backtrack, but it's still not an instance I want to associate with.
Lots of people keen to offer their opinion of drawn picture of naked kids, haven't seen any alternatives though
Edit 2: At this point I think their updated rules are good. It took a bit to get there, but in the end they appear to be taking a hard stance. Hopefully this is enforced.
I dont think it was a case of "whoops bad English" like they are suggesting, I think it was a total 180 backflip. This doesnt really instill confidence in the admins IMO, but im happy that they have made the right decision in regards to allowed content. Hopefully this is was just some early wobblies and the community can move on.
Beehaw was right to defederate many instances and so should we. Beehaw is crazy but not that crazy.
Defederate these instances, what are you so afraid of? Some people here are going full throttle on the freedom of blabla, don't listen to them. Ban this stuff, do you really want Kbin to be known as "this network"? Do you want this reputation? I don't. If you want more then register to another instance which accepts this stuff but don't drag all our infrastructure with you.
Federating this content puts the servers of Ernest in danger.
edit: downvote me more, I take it as a badge of honor because I know who it's coming from.
I'll just point out that I never suggested anyone defederate from anyone.
As a side point though, lots of places had already defederated from lemmynsfw.
I just want a NSFW instance that doesn't cater to pseudo child porn
I think the beauty of the feddiverse is that WE WILL get another more curated nsfw community. Right now its early and messy, we're figuring our communities out. I think we'll be alright.
Absolutely.
All the apologists have come out guns blazing.
My post was just asking for alternatives.
I never suggested defederation, or called for a boycott or anything. I just want to see some boobs every now and then without having to scroll past drawings of naked children
The fact this post has so many apologists and people defending the instance is disappointing
I mean, it seems like they back-pedaled on that (or were unclear initially and never intended to allow drawn CP), as long as it stays that way and they actually enforce it, I don't see a need to de-federate
Like I am not interested in seeing NSFW but I don't care if it's around... people drawing kids being raped (kids can't consent even if they claim they're 100 years old) is disturbing and objectively wrong. Someone masturbating to these images adds a whole different level of mental health ussue compared to someone who just watches disturbing content for enjoyment without the sexual aspect. If it were legal these same people would be extremely likely to not only watch real CP or even engage in it otherwise they wouldn't resort to loopholes.
Is this you u/spez on some mission to destroy the federated world before it had a chance to grow up?
If that kind of content was allowed here I'd delete my account. No, one wants that kind of trouble.
You wrote:
Why don't you open an account on one of those instance instead of pushing it in our throats?
No one wants to shove petite Asian ladies into your throat. Just don't subscribe to those communities/magazines. That NSFW magazines appear in All is nothing but a technical issue.
Why the hell do you think having 5 accounts so you can subscribe to everything you want is acceptable.
It's always the fucking furries
🤡
Everyone will note that you never address the pedo data ending up hosted by Ernest if we don't defederate. You never talk about that, it's always about you, you you. Well sorry for you but you are not alone and there are real-life implications to hosting this content.
This pedo content has nothing to do on this server.
No, YOU go out and get your illegal content from the source.
It's true, drawn child porn is still child porn in many juristictions, e.g, in the UK it's explicitly prohibited. https://jd-solicitors.co.uk/guide-to-uk-pornography-laws/#:\~:text=UK%20Child%20pornography%20laws&text=The%20first%20is%20indecent%20images,%2C%20and%20computer%2Dgenerated%20images
You can try and argue in court that the server you're legally responsible for hosting child porn is permitted but...good luck.
No one here speaks about child pornography but you.
Go run your own instance, you will be able to federate with whoever you want. Your instance = your responsibility.
Again, no one is talking about child porn beside you. Everything lemmynsfw allows is legal in any jurisdiction. And everything it disallows like Loli and shota is clearly something no one wants to see here on kbin or lemmy even if it is legal in many parts of the world. The line is right there and lemmynsfw never challaned it.
What you say is wrong and people already explained to you why, you did not answer them.
This is not a game. This is real life with real consequences.
Again, only you talk about child porn. To again give you the exact rules layed out:
I kinda suspect you are 14, because everyone else would have understood by now that banning all petite/young-looking actors in porn would kick out large parts of Asian actors from the industry. Shit like school-class role-playing is about the most usual stuff in Straigt Pornography on this planet and teen looking actors are among the most popular world wide in straight pornography. I had to literally research that, Gay men are usually not as knowledgeable on straight porn.
Again, loli and shora, aka drawn depiction of children or children-looking characters are banned.
Yep, and the consequence you took out for you is looking like a prude online for no reason at all, making a elephant out of a mosquito.
This is really awkward to read. Keep this for yourself and stop talking to me.
I just want to say I agree with you. I actually do not like laws the limit drawn content personally. Drawing stuff, writing stories, poems, discussions around it. Fine. IRL. Fuck no. But im a free speech absolutist.
I want kbin to be known as a network that is neutral and federates with all other instances, allowing users to decide what they wish to see. the second something is defederated/blocked, it becomes a slippery slope of crying to block this or that, and taking away power from the users.
There has to be a line though.
I saw this person defending exploding-heads (Nazi instance) earlier so I imagine the line looks much different for them than for you.
It's sad to see that there are people who see thing as all or nothing. Life requires nuance and every situation needs to be analyzed and treated differently otherwise we end up with blanket policies that are ineffective and even punish those it seeks to protect. Free speech is great but it ends when it becomes a detriment to society or in this case a vulnerable group. I don't have kids and don't care to be around them but the idea that someone would find sexual gratification from the image of a child-like body is abhorrent. Also it's a good indication that these people themselves experienced childhood sexual assault and that needs to be dealt with in a healthy manner, not by normalizing the act.
This is not a situation that requires nuance.
Who is being put out by rules that disallow this content?
IMO, unless it's explicitly illegal, people should be free to share/say/discuss it. let people decide what they wish to see on their own and curate their own experience.
I believe illustrated child porn is illegal here in Canada, as well as other countries (not going to google it though). Seems like it isn't in the US? I find it kind of shocking that so many people don't see an issue with it, tbh.
Because here in the US marrying off children is normal.
loli/shota aren't "illustrated child porn".
Its not an issue for those you can seperate what they think is ok from what they think should be allowable due to peoples personal freedom. A drawing is a creation of an artist from some sort of media. When its created, no one gets hurt. When its consumed, no one gets hurt. Will I be a consumer. Nope but I also believe in legalization of prositution without planning to go to one. I was for marijuana legalization and have never used it. Rights are not just about what I think is fine.
And which legal system would we be using here?
server host's laws. the goal being to avoid legal takedowns. I'm a free speech maximalist. The only thing that should ever be taken down IMO is nonconsensual nsfw photos/videos. So cp, revenge porn, deepfakes, etc. along with literal off-topic spam (spammy affiliate links).
Well, what if do want that? What should be of my sever that is set up in a country where said content was legal? I'm well aware I'm making more of a hypothetical statement here, but I believe that kinda stuff doesn't really have a place being blatantly public to everyone by default. I can empathize with free speech but I do believe there needs to be at least some sort of soft barriers.
Also, "avoiding legal takedowns" is kinda sus. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it but it really isn't a strong opener when talking about porn.
If you wish to see such content and such content is legal in your area, then you should be free to have an instance that does that. Personally I would support defederating from such a service. These are not merely a preference of content, but rather things that have actual harm to actual people.
"federated" and "public to everyone by default" are two entirely different things. I agree, that nsfw content of any kind shouldn't be public front page "to everyone by default". That doesn't mean we should defederate from nsfw instances.
Keep in mind that legality of nsfw content varies wildly per region. For example, japan explicitly bans any nsfw materials showing genitals that are not blurred/pixelated. So if a server is hosted in japan, then it's expected that that sort of content (uncensored genitals) would be banned/defederated in order to stay compliant with the laws of the region. Similarly, a server hosted in the middle east might be expected to ban/defederate from instances home to imagery of muhammad, or of nsfw lgbt content.
Agreed. Could you further clarify you stance above then, about kbin being federated all other instances?
Yeah, I'm pretty new here it probably shows. I'm aware it isn't exactly like that and I didn't know at the moment (and still don't) how to put my thoughts into words.
I can appreciate avoiding the law for what could be described as "socially just" reasons. I just think that opening with that may unintentionally include harmful subjects, such as the ones you have listed above.
Sure. I'm speaking in terms of content, culture, beliefs. by default, kbin should not defederate. Defederation is a severe action that should only be taken in extreme circumstances, such as extremely illegal things, or those which can directly lead to harm. For example, I'd be okay with defederating from an instance that's used to organize human trafficking. In an ideal I think that ultimately speech harms no one. drawings harm no one, and should be allowed in all cases; but it's understandable that such things may be illegal (in which case defederation is obviously needed to comply with law). In certain situations platforms may/can be used to cause real world harm, such as nonconsensual pornography, human trafficking, etc. in these cases, defederating I'd support to reduce the harm done to the real people effected. These aren't a matter of "oh no they offended me" but rather "perpetuating this content actively harms the subject".
Loli/Shota drawn artwork are drawings first and foremost, let's not forget that. They do not harm anyone and cannot harm anyone. In this sense, they should be allowed unless the law dictates otherwise.
When I say "kbin should be federated with all other instance" I mean: if I'm on kbin and wish to see certain content, or talk with certain people, I shouldn't have to worry about admins being offended or disgusted by such topics. The case of nonconsensual pornography is not a topic or genre it is not a form of speech it's a violation of consent. You can get identical content with proper consent. In that regard, cutting off such instances does not prevent people from enjoying the content they wish and speaking to those they wish.
In practice, ethics and morality can often clash with the law. For instance, I think piracy is morally right and just, yet it is obviously illegal. In this case, while I would appreciate and support federation with instances that allow blatant piracy, it's understandable why defederation might be needed in that case. Similarly the reverse is true, some blatantly heinous content may be legal in certain areas (such as the scenario presented about nonconsensual pornography), in this case I do support going further than the law to protect the victims.
There's a difference between discussing murder, and planning murder. There's a difference between enjoying fictional murder scenarios, and allowing the sharing of photographs of your murder victims. Hopefully you can understand this?
I think each person should be allowed to choose what that line is for them, and not have that line chosen for them.
Disclaimer: I was a victim of child SA, I do not support or condone SA. But I DO support pedophiles who have never and will never act on their desires having a SAFE NONVIOLENT FICTIONAL outlet for their perverted fantasies, if anything so they don't take that shit out on innocent children.
A friend (therapist) of mine worked with pedophiles and the story they told them is that consuming that content leads to more and more desire to actual assault a child.
I'm no expert in that field, but I personally would rather see such content banned and people that look for it to be served ads that help them.
Yes. This is exactly like study after study about violence in video games. Consumption of violent content in video games leads to more and more desire to actually be violent to people.
Eh, I get the principle, and we should definitely be less trigger-happy about defederating than beehaw, but if a server starts tolerating a bunch of drawn CP, we should probably just defederate. That being said, it seems like lemmynsfw is prohibiting it, so I say we keep federating with them unless it becomes clear they won't actually enforce that rule.
No reason to cut ourselves off from half the nsfw communities on the fediverse unless we have to.
Even from a legal perspective tolerating this stuff is a no-go.
One of my biggest concerns with these kind of platforms is that they'll end up being a home for creeps and criminals due to a lack of rule enforcement. I don't want to be ashamed to use this platform or anyone to suspect me for it.
That is wild, I made an account on there last night so I was curious to find the announcement post. Evidently lots of people are quite outraged. I also noticed as of a few minutes ago a clarification post has been made: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826
To quote:
I'm not sure what to make of all this; it's a bit iffy to me so I'll be on the lookout for another NSFW related Lemmy community. There were a couple of folks in the comments of the original announcement post stating they're gonna make their own instance so we'll see how that pans out.
The heading of the post is, and I quote
Maybe they minced words being non English as their first language.
I understand that, languages are tough.
That said, the fact that it isn't a hard line on that shit is enough for the majority of people to want another instance.
I'm not trying to have them closed. I'm not fronting a resistance to have people not go there. As far as I'm concerned its "legal" and whatever, but at the end of the day the majority of people are not only not interested, but disgusted by that.
Being real here, if I'm looking at nude content, as lots of us do, there is some stuff I don't want to see. Underaged content is on that list. I would safely assume that is on the list for many people.
The point of this thread is to warn other "normies" that the people running that instance are cool with this sort of thing, and ask if there is an alternative yet. lemmynsfw can and will do whatever they want. I'm fine with that, its not the point here. The point is warning others and asking for an alternative.
I completely agree with your points. I alongside many others appreciate the heads up; for some reason `!lemmynsfw doesn't show up on my local feed over there so I never would've seen the post if it weren't for this thread.
I mean the person that made the original post has responded to that post saying "im not a pedo 🫤🤷♂️ I thought loli meant for teen people like 18-25."
Which to me does not track at all with what was said the first post, where they acknowledge that it's drawings that appears to be of people underage. how do you talk about underage then say " I thought they meant 18 year old" does not really strike me as an "oopsi, I did not know"
I don't know how people can be arguing against a post that is literally titled
Oh yikes, I didn't even see that comment. The fact that user is making this "clarification", and not the admin themselves concerns me. It reads like they're just piggybacking off the user poster who decided to do their own interpretation. Like others have stated before, there really needs to be a hard line drawn otherwise that instance is going to see a lot of people leaving.
My biggest concern coming from this is that the admins over there seem really, really out of their depth.
Again, they can and will do whatever they want to do, but in my personal opinion a large general NSFW instance needs to have people who know what they are doing at the helm or its going to be a disaster. I just hope no regular user gets caught up if/when shit hits the fan
What a mess! I can't tell if it's backtracking because of backlash or actual clarification.
The fact the post was made by a user and not the actual admin certainly contributes to this mess.
These are contradictory statements. that's literally what the words loli/shota mean.
No expert on straight porn, but that would probably include lots of Asian adult porn actors.
Lolli is a very stretchable word you can technically see a 18 year old flat chested, short woman as lolli
loli/shota haters are gonna lose their shit when they find out about oppai loli. if loli referred to minors, such a thing simply couldn't exist lol.
the reality is that loli/shota have nothing to do with age.
uzuki-chan XD strictly speaking lolli...
yup. people hating on this clearly ave no idea what they're talking about. like there's a clear distinction between actual anime children and loli content. and there's plenty of people who like the latter and not the former. it's not hard to understand.
Lolicon does depict minor characters engaged in sexual acts. Whether that is exclusively or not doesn’t really matter. Although it doesn’t surprise me to see you here defending it. You have trash fucking takes on every topic you engage in.
the cool thing about the fediverse and open platforms is that we are free to agree to disagree. the second you start defederating, silencing, or banning people over disagreements, is the second you start building an echochamber and leading to situations like what reddit or twitter have. If you don't like the stuff I comment or share, then you're free to block me.
But why does your dislike of what I wish to discuss/say/share mean that I shouldn't be allowed to do so and discuss with others who do wish to speak to me?
i mean at that rate loli/shota mean nothing
being on guard for pedophiles is good, but the obsessive policing of how petite women are allowed to be while still being 'okay' to sexualize has gotten extremely silly, both when it comes to art and when it comes to actual women sexualising themselves
loli/shota have a very clear meaning, and it's not "underage".
Just block these communitys, its nothing serious.
how do I block that on kbin?
up the top of this page where the post title is, next to it is (lemmynsfw.com). You have to click on that, then in the side bar there is a block icon. For some reason when you block that lemmy instance, you also lose this thread, which is weird because this thread is hosted on kbin. It must also block links to the blocked instance as well...?
Can this be done on mobile?
Actually, it is serious. That is the entire point.
Yikes. As long as it’s not actual children it’s fine by me. They’re an NSFW server after all.
Maybe a hot take, but I don't mind as long as there are no victims and no one is actually hurt.
But I also won't lose any sleep if the content is banned by communities that don't want that (such as kbin.social if that happens to be the case).
well this is the strength of the fediverse, some instances can choose to go off the rails and it doesn't affect the others
I don't think everyone would think of that as 'drawn child porn'. Plenty of live action 'school girl' stuff out there and that usually gets a pass. Pretty much every amateur video is implied to be incestuous now, are they promoting having sex with school kids and incest?
Terms like 'barely legal' and 'young teen' are used all the time, do you think there aren't people out there imagining those girls being younger than 18? If some Loli drawings are where you draw the line then it seems like an odd place to do so. Does nothing for me personally, I prefer drawings of young boys misbehaving, swearing and defecating /s (South Park).
I'm not here to argue about the nuance of drawn pictures of naked kids.
I don't care. Lemmynsfw can do whatever they want.
The point is there is going to be NSFW instances, and im:
a) warning people not interested in that shit that lemmynsfw is not the place to go, and
b) asking if there are any other alternatives
In that case a simple 'What are the best NSFW instances?' would have sufficed perhaps with a line stating that you don't enjoy hentai / loli. You cared about the nuance when you called it child porn despite knowing the actual genre is 'loli'.
Big difference between something not being your cup of tea and full blown child porn accusations. I might not enjoy someone sending me an eggplant emoji but I wouldn't call the police and say I've just been harassed by a drawn picture of a purple cock.
Hope you find an instance to your tastes and I hope you can get your questions answered in future without feeling the need to incite a mob.
No, I'm warning people who don't want to see pictures of naked kids that the instance is cool with that content.
Hentai isn't the issue. The issue is
Most people don't want that. If you do, more power to ya bud
Nice straw man. Hope you can find the actual IRL underage content you're looking for rather than just drawings. See how that works?
Where is the straw man?
Warning people who dont want underage content on their feed?
Directly quoting the announcement title?
Saying most people dont want that content but if you do good for you?
Literally none of those are strawmen
Well... we're talking about some manga drawings which might just look like Funko pops with breasts to some but you decided to instead say that we're irrefutably talking about 'pictures of naked kids', a massive oversimplification which makes your argument look stronger.
'if you do then more power to ya bud' to make it sound like I enjoy that content despite the fact that I've already said that it does nothing for me. A misrepresentation of my position.
That's what makes it a straw man argument in my opinion.
Anyway thanks for the debate, I haven't followed on with what happened in the rest of the thread and really regret engaging with it in the first place. Sorry if I offended you, it's hard to get points across via text sometimes and I probably came off a bit strong.
None of this really affects me as I don't use Lemmy for NSFW content, I like the platform though and don't want to believe that it would be used for underage content so I guess we pretty much agree where it counts but came at it from different angles.
Peace and love
Yea look, I got a bit heated about it and I sincerely apologise for that.
Im glad I brought it up though, enough people have been pissed off about the decision that they seem to have taken a hard 180 on the topic, so alls well that ends well for the time being.
And yea I agree there are always different angles, and with so many people moving to a new platform for different reasons there is always going to be some butting heads.
Im just worried that the fediverse is going to take a turn and be overun by edgelords like what has happened with so many "reddit alternatives" in the past.
Anyway, peace and love for sure my dude/dudette
You can block whole communities as user. Personally, I'm not interested in Loli, but their users voted to allow it.
Yes, that isnt an issue.
The issue is for those looking for a NSFW instance that dont want to associate with child porn
You don't have to join an instance to access their content, though. And if something pops up in your timeline if you select "All", you can still block the whole community without losing access to others hosted on that server.
Yes, I am aware of this.
The point of the thread though is to point out that the instance likely isn't one that most people looking for a reddit NSFW alternative is one that they want to associate with, and to ask if there are any other alternatives yet
You don't associate with an instance by accessing content from it. You do by signing up there and accessing the fediverse as a whole on that account.
...and if the content there is loli, why would I want to go there?
And yes, using an instance is associating with it.
I don't care if people want to jerk off to drawn pictures of kids.
I'm pointing out that most people don't, so its not a suitable instance for the majority of people, and asking if there are any alternatives yet.
You're absolutely correct. By using said instance you're helping to build their community (to whatever degree) and by extension supporting the problematic part of the instance.
The moment you have your instance defederate from another one, you decide for all your users, instead of letting them decide for themselves. Why would you want to do that? We have just seen what this does, when beehaw defederated from world and sh.itjust.works. No thanks to that. I, as an adult, can think for myself.
Can you point out where I said to defederate?
It's obvious you're trying to troll me, so I'll disengage. Have a good evening.
Ah the old cant prove what you said so youre out trick.
Not once in this thread or anywhere else have I suggested defederation. I have repeatedly said this is to warn other normies about their tolerance of underage content and ask for any other recommended instances.
You won't find a single big nsfw instance that blocks this stuff, they will all allow it. Just block these communitys and done.
How do you block a whole community?
In your profile, looks like this:
Ahh, see this is the moment I realize we're all in a separate instances and all assuming our UIs look identical.
The more recent clarification post says they're prohibiting drawn CP (https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826)
They voted? How? How many people are even in that community so far? Seems like the kind of thing to revisit as it grows.
I don't know, but they wrote so in the post the OP quoted.
Yeah - but not a single response to the post - agrees.
I honestly can't tell you anything you couldn't read up in the quoted original post of this thread. I read about it a few minutes ago, so you're as well-informed about it as me.
Yeah that's what I meant - I didn't see a single comment on the announcement post - that agreed with the mod. They are all saying it's a stupid decision, many are threatening to report any clearly underage content - whether it's drawn or not.
The mod might have made the decision, but the users don't agree with it at all.
I don't care about all that, or this issue here in general. I'm only replying here, because I personally, as a fediverse user, want to be able to decide myself what I do and don't want to see. If I have the means to curate the content visible to me, which I do, there's no need to have someone think and act for me. See where I'm coming from?
100%
Loud minoritys
It does not matter if a community has 2 people or 150 people, whoever is a member of the community at the time their voice matters. And they can revisit that as the community continues to grow.
I can't answer because I was banned for saying allowing loli was a bad move, lol
Ah so it isn't so much that you don't want to associate with it, it's more that you got banned so can't.
Did you say that you thought it was a 'bad move' or did you go all guns blazing and start shouting about child porn?
No, I was banned after this post was made.
I dont want to associate with that instance because its making announcements that its decided to allow nude depictions of underage children.
I said its a dumb move to allow porn that features depictions of children. Being banned doesnt bother me, I only found out when I went to look to see if I could delete my account
This is so fucked up.
I was pretty shocked by m/random. It's not a nsfw magazine and yet it is full of porn from lemmynsfw.com. I'm not anti porn, but I was a bit shocked as I'm just flicking through kbin at home.
My problem isn't with NSFW stuff being allowed on the fediverse. I think there is a place for it.
I just want it to be a place where I don't have to scroll past drawn pictures of naked kids.
Lemmynsfw can do whatever they want. They aren't going to be the place that the majority of people want to visit when it allows that shit though.
The point of this thread is to highlight that the server in question likely isn't the place most people who are looking for NSFW is looking for, and to find out if there are any other alternatives
m/random provides unsorted/uncategorized posts. so basically just a mess of everything across the fediverse, along with stuff that people intentionally post in there.
yep. do you not see a problem with this?
why would I have a problem with a fediverse site showing federated content? if I didn't want to look at an unsorted/uncategorized collection of posts I'd simply ignore m/random.
and ignore m/all? Even if I enable 'hide adult content', it still shows up because it is not flagged as adult content. what is the point of having nsfw flags if nsfw content is being posted in communities/magazines that are not nsfw communities? I like having a look through /all every now and then, it's a nice way to find new communities. But when there are heaps of nsfw posts in it well you can see an issue can arise. I take it you don't have kids? Like I said earlier, I have no issue with nsfw content. I just think it should not be something that appears without looking for it. To note: there is no age verification on any of these servers yet.
If anything from across the fediverse can appear on the front page of an instance, that is going to open that instance to a certain level of risk. I mean, it's been less than a week and we're already discussing the possibility of CP appearing on kbin.social. Is @ernest ok with the prospect that depicted CP could be on his server?
you might not have a problem with it, but others may.
I agree that proper tagging and filtering should be in place. Personally my preference is to show all content, but to blur nsfw until hovering over it. proper tagging is a win for everyone.
and yes, I think that having "all" as the default front page is an odd decision. I'm opposed to defederating, but I'm a big advocate for people controlling and curating their own experience and what they see. in that regard, I agree there should be good tools for filtering this stuff on the user-level.
You're surprised that the internet is full of porn?
it's kinda funny the people most up in arms about loli/shota stuff are also the ones telling people to not "kinkshame".
OMFG this is why I hate the "you can't kink shame bullshit" I have no fucking problem shaming pedos, necros and rapist, they deserve the utmost shame for the trash they are.
loli/shota has nothing to do with pedos
necro for fictional content is harmless, and rape is the most common kink among women; cnc is a thing.
but thanks for proving my point. no one is defending pedos here.
you are, actually!
Yes, it does have to do with pedos, you are just unwilling to admit you are a pedo.
also I am not proving your point, obviously I am just fine with "kink shaming" that is the reason you are mad at me right now.
I'm not even into loli stuff so lol. if I date a man is he a pedo? is that how you think?
are you over 18? and is the man over 18? then that's fine, no shit?
are we just asking dumb questions now?
so then what is the issue with an anime character who is 18+ and loli?
Because those two things are incongruent and you know it, you just choose to ignore it. there is no such thing as an 18+ loli, and don't bother telling me there is because no there is not.
you're gonna flip when you find out oppai loli is a thing which is biologically impossible to be a child.
My kinks might make me a degenerate but not a criminal. I will shame pedos like you till I die
see this is why weebs do not take anti-loli people seriously. you accuse me of being a pedophile simply because I'm speaking the facts.
I honestly have no intent on using kbin for nsfw, and the sort of content discussed isn't my preference anyway. The nsfw content I look at involve 30 year old anime characters who are not loli/shota lol. you're barking up the wrong tree with your moralizing.
Stop talking about weebs like we're all nonce that agree with you. Plenty of us are against child porn and are fully aware that loli explicitly refers to kids, as that is LITERALLY the fucking definition of the word and even in Japan lolicon is synonymous with pedo.
Stop going to bat to defend pedophiles
:| loli does not refer to children. there are loli adults.
You can apply whatever definition to loli that you want, whatever makes you feel best.
for the rest
of us though,
we dont really want to be associated with this shit
citing a shitty dictionary doesn't change the facts. loli does not refer to an age. no matter how much you wish to cry and try and say it does.
Hey, if you go out of your way to find dictionaries that support your world view of naked pictures of kids thats up to you bud, more power to ya
Attacking people doesn't really help your point. Might want to think about that for a moment before replying like that.
While your point is valid, so is /u/nudes's
If you have to go looking for dictionaries that don't suggest you are attracted to underaged girls, you MIGHT want to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
I'm not interested in the matter at hand at all. Just pointing out personal attacks when I see them.
I don't know, I feel like this article I read a while ago that talks about ad hominem and coincidently being a creep that pertains to the situation and says how I feel about the idea. I did not write it, I just think it's accurate.
https://theoutline.com/post/8785/defense-of-ad-hominem
Nah I'm good
I don't need a dictionary to know how to speak english. loli/shota are well understood words in the weeb community. they don't refer to kids.
also, I don't look at that kind of hentai lol. but notably: loli/shota do not refer to nsfw things. there is sfw loli/shota pics and nsfw ones.
I have a hunch you're probably fine with actually illegal porn though while outcrying about this perfectly legal stuff.
If you want to be daft about the situation, more power to ya bud.
Its clear in context what the implication of allowing that content is, being contrary isn't going to change anything
their ruling is independent of the fact that the words loli and shota do not refer to children. I went to go look for the announcement post (since it wasn't linked) and it talks about content that isn't necessarily synonymous with loli/shota. in the post they explicitly say that they aren't allowing minors/children.
you're throwing a fuss about adults.
Post title
I'm telling people who don't want to see pics of naked kids that this particular instance is cool with that.
You're defending that instance.
I'm not throwing a fuss bud
I haven't said my view on their ruling lol. Though it says in the post they ban underage content. so it's all fine yeah?
my issue and reason for commenting is twofold:
defederation should not occur unless extreme circumstances (illegal content that will lead to kbin being shut down)
loli/shota do not refer to minors and it's important to clarify that fact.
IMO it seems obvious to me that they're talking about allowing adult loli/shota content. which is entirely legal and fine and has nothing to do with minors. I don't see an issue with this.
The Pedos sure want to come out in full force don't they, pure scum. No surprise 90% have anime pfps.
Some people would rather ignore Japanese culture and push their views on others. It is so strange to me that the west cannot tell drawings from reality.
It's not Japanese culture. I know a fair few Japanese friends who are disgusted by lolicon.
The fact is, if you're drawing childlike characters and putting them in sexual situations.. there's something fucked there. Sure, they're not real, but it's still fucked up to be attracted to that in the first place. They look like children!
It's Japanese culture in the same way guns are American culture. You don't have to like every aspect of your culture, but Japan is still the place loli/shota was crystalized into an artform, and America is still the country with the most guns by an extremely wide margin.
I've seen people get called a "pedophile" for liking Konata Izumi, a 17-18 year old character from the series Lucky Star. They weren't even called that because they were posting porn, they were called that because they liked to collect SFW art of her. Do you expect people to not create porn of her as well because someone might find it offensive however? It's so absurd to me.
The first thing I learned in therapy for PTSD is that I will get triggered, I will never be able to avoid my triggers forever, and that it's unhealthy to even try. I need to be able to handle triggers, which over time helps lessen their impact on my life. I don't see why other people should be denied enjoying something that harms no one just because it puts me on edge.
Hi, I'm an actual full grown real life 30 year old adult. I look like a minor. Should I just not be allowed to date and have relationships with other adults?
Hi, I'm an adult woman who also looks pretty young! There's still a huge difference between how I look now in my late 20s and how a prepubescent child looks! These things are false equivalencies. Stop trying to justify this shit.
there's also a difference between a prepubescent anime child and a loli anime adult.
The amount of mental gymnastics here is insane.
Just accept it bud, you like CP. This is pathetic.
You say prepubescent child - pubescent children are still children, anything to do with a real child under the age of consent is a child. If you are an adult that looks like you are under the age of consent, should you not be OK with your sexuality? I struggle with my sexuality because people mistake me for a teen, but that is my hang up and I would not condemn others for embracing their body. Unless - are you suggesting that it is only bad if it resembles a prepubescent child?
If you can't tell the difference between a small adult and an actual child, you have major issues.
my thoughts exactly about people who are anti loli. if they can't tell the difference between a small anime adult and an actual anime child, you have major issues.
Except that argument doesn't work with anime because it's not real people, hence why some people draw characters that are 2000 year old vampires 5hat just so happen to look exactly like an 8 year old girl as a way to try and get away with it.
Of course not. But if you date and have relationships the other people involved understand the context exactly. If you started sending random nudes of your "I'm an actual full grown real life 30 year old adult. I look like a minor" self to strangers, how what would the context be.
Now of course NSFW animation is harmless. But you can understand the worry for 1000s of normies who click and the first thought they have is "Fuck is this CP? what am I looking at? I need to reevaluate my website choices." if they have zero reference points from life or culture except what's illegal tabboo and disgusting in their culture.
The great thing about the Fediverse though - there will likely be an instance where a vast majority share your opinion and can connect to all the same instances from an 3rd origin point instance.
If the concern is "normies seeing", then perhaps a suitable compromise would be to hide such content from the front page by default? so that only people who explicitly subscribe to it can see it?
I'm an advocate of "curate your own experience". I don't want to see half the fucked up nsfw shit people post, yet you do not see me crying over defederating instances that host it.
I don't even care about the ruling. I just hate that people keep conflating loli/shota with children when it really has nothing to do with that.
But yeah it's wild how people have issues with drawings.
I know and agree. People will tell you characters like Tatsumaki from One Punch Man is "minor coded". Rev Says Desu has great videos on these people freaking out over nothing.
The sad irony is that organizations that deal with actually helping stop actual predators have to tell people to stop reporting drawings because it's flooding their tip boxes.
I'm a CSA survivor myself and the virtue signaling people do around this topic triggers me almost as much as abusers themselves. I don't like people speaking for me, especially when they can't tell the difference between a drawing and an actual person.
Japanese culture can do what it wants.
I and the majority of other people just don't want to be browsing and come across pictures of naked kids.
Call me crazy, I know
No one will blame you for blocking the sub. Calling loli/shota "child porn" however is quite a bit over the line. It's like calling someone you disagree with a Nazi/Commie, it diminishes the term into nothingness, just look at the current state of the word "woke".
Can we at least save terms like "pedophile" and "child porn" for people who are actually pedophiles and are actually consuming something that required someone to be hurt?
Bud, you call a picture of a nude kid whatever you want.
I'll call it whatever I want
Going around accusing people of serious stuff like consuming child porn is impolite at best, malicious at worst. You can do whatever you want, but throwing around accusations only causes consternation within communities. Why do you think places like Twitter are so toxic?
If you don't like what the sub is doing you should block it and move on, there's no reason to get so upset over drawings even if you find them disgusting. There's plenty of stuff I find disgusting that people do, but if I spent my time getting upset about that I'd have no time to enjoy my life.
It's healthier for everyone involved for people to live and let live.
Nah, you jerk off to pics of kids youre going to have to learn to cop it on the chin.
Besides that, the enitre point of this post is to warn people about that instance and ask for alternatives.
All you pedos and apologists showing up to defend pictures of naked kids are just kicking up a stink that no one cares about
Shit like this is why I hide the fact I watch anime
I had to go find the thread being referenced, it's here for anyone else who hasn't seen it: https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42348
I took the time to post my own thoughts in the thread, which I've reproduced here:
Again, not here to discuss the nuance of drawn pictures of naked kids.
Not trying to shut down the instance.
I don't care.
I'm just warning people who don't like that shit, that is most people, that the instance owner is cool with that content so if you aren't into it then probably look elsewhere.
A secondary point was asking if there are any alternatives yet.
I know there will be, I'm just wondering if there is
No, it's highly misleading: https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-results
Allowed are fictional content of characters where it becomes hard to exactly tell if they're adult or not. Not obvious underage stuff.
The post title, direct quote
I see you did not even bother to read the clarification, nor the original question.
No I did, and they said
Then they go on to say there is a difference between teen and child, and then backtrack and say "noooo we banned loli", after posting a thread titled
edit:
And now the title of the post is
No, it says, and I quote the whole thing for you as you apparently lack reading comprehension, since your quote is literally not part of it:
Yes, the backtrack, which was posted after my initial thread, which is a 180 on what was originally posted, but also goes on to say that its impossible to differentiate if its flat chested content.
All this could have been solved by saying "18+ only", but instead they want to dance the pedo line and come up with their own rules based on breast size and "anime skin tones" and all this other nonsense.
This thread isnt missleading, I posted what I saw. Then they backtracked almost. If people didnt post about it and say they were leaving there wouldnt have been a backtrack.
Bad take
I'm hoping that they have server in ruSSia or they are running by FBI ... otherwise they will knock down by interpol and every user will be screened
or just somewhere sane like california?
Man, the witchhunty FUD about that is sad