Fairphone brings a much better device to market with better cameras, a better screen, likely a better chip, open hardware specifications and modularity,
a completely unlockable bootloader (with likely support for CalyxOS and other ROM's shortly), and up to 8 years of software support(!), but people say they won't get it because no headphone jack...
MFW people have their priorities extremely mixed up... That's been the world now for 6 years, it's time to get over it. Letting perfect be the enemy of good is how you decide to throwaway something as good as what Fairphone seems to be offering. Sony still offers Android devices with headphone jacks, just don't be upset if you don't get another Android version pushed to your device.
Yeah, it's not available in my region. But, if it was, I would consider getting it. Snapdragon 778 level performance should be sufficient for most people.
Yeah, I hope the FP5 will come to the US officially too. I know the FP4 could work here, but it apparently did have issues with a carrier or two, or something.
Hopefully the 5 will bring true support for US markets.
It will be announced today, stay tuned
For me it's the camera. If the best camera I have is the one with me then the one with me is going to be the best I can buy (within reason) if they could get Samsung or Pixel quality (or iPhone I guess) that would be awesome.
Iphone and samsung did not get their camera chops in months. It took years. Fairphone would take a similar amount of time to reach that. But, yeah, i agree a good camera would be great.
Ye but I want a god damn head phone jack.
Ugh. Looks like they may never release a device with a headphone jack at this point. I'm fine with my FP3 but it still comes off a bad move.
Can they please just bring back the project manager that oversaw the FP3? Since the departure the company has made very questionable design choices and decisions (FP4 without headphone jack, and the unrepairable first gen Fairbuds)
Buy a usbc dac for everything you have with that plug from 1975. Join us in the modern world.
But that steals a port used for charging :/
I thought I didn't mind when I bought my phone that doesn't have it at first, but it really sucks having to reach for a dongle when I want to use my good headphones on the phone. If USB-C is really so superior for audio, then that would be a good argument to make 2 USB-C ports, don't you think?
Yet barely any manufacturer does it, I only ever saw it on some niche gaming phones. Even if they did that, the jack still has a place IMO, because it's still so ubiquitous even newer midrange headphone releases use it
Work phone doesn't have a 3.5mm jack, it's a lot more annoying than I expected it to be.
I think I would be sufficiently mollified if phones that remove the headphone jack had a USB-C port on the top and bottom. I'd still be annoyed but I'll be like okay they're trying to make the experience better
Exactly! Right now it's just trend and cost cutting
And pushing their bluetooth earbud sales, its a consumable!
The fact it's that old literally only proves how reliable and effective it is. I don't want to throw away a good solution for a worse solution just because somebody is trying to paint the worse solution as the future.
No headphone jack. Real shame i won't be able to use this phone.
I simply cannot understand that decision. Am I supposed to throw away all my headphones now because of this dumb, Apple initiated fad? That big vendors like Samsung and OnePlus follow the inane "courage" displayed by Apple because they also want to be "premium" is understandable, but that smaller vendors, especially the fair phone do it is just dumb.
Thanks, but pfffff. So I have to carry around another tiny thing I can lose easily. No thanks.
The idea is that you don't detach the adapter from your headphones. My experience is that it kinda works, there are even ones that allow you to charge at the same time.
I have some sympathy for Fairphone in that regard because they pay more for the materials and workers than Apple, so it forces their hand to a degree to save costs at other places. A friend has the Fairphone 3 and says the camera is unusably bad... So yeah, they cut costs and consumers stay away because they may need them. I need two physical SIM slots, for example and Fairphone has one since the 4 or so.
Headphone jack is not about cost cutting, it's about selling something with a higher profit margin.
And not detaching the adapter doesn't work when you have multiple devices.
No they don't intend you to use the adapter. They want you to buy their Bluetooth earbuds. They remove the headphone jack at the same time they introduce the earbuds. It's about pushing sales of a disposable electronic thing. To increase their overall revenue. Apple demonstrated this by huge sales of their earbuds. And everyone else once money so they're following suit. The reason Fair phone is pissing us off is because they said they weren't like other corporations, they didn't want extra e-waste, they were doing things to be sustainable, and then they pull the same dick head move. It feels like betrayal
Please stop bogging down the conversation with this every single time fairphone comes up
Lemmy is full of first adopter technologists. The kind of people who spend all day on the telephone during conference calls, video conferences, whatever. The kind of people who deal with systems that break all the time. A very vocal community who doesn't like foundational options being removed.
It's too damn big. I got a Fairphone 4 and got rid of it because I just couldn't properly use it (and because of the poor camera performance on top of that). Now they're releasing an even bigger phone? I may be the minority here, but that's a deal breaker for me. I'll need a new phone in the next few months, but right now I'm only considering the s23 or the Xperia 5 V, just because everything else is just too fucking huge.
Exactly. I'm now on 4 years old Samsung S10e, with replaced battery and display, because I can't see myself using ANY of the new phones. All of them are so giant and heavy, and I already feel like I'd like something smaller than my current one... I guess the Fairphone philosophy wins anyway, hehe.
Is the Asus Zenfone available in your region ? If yes, its a pretty compact and feature rich phone.
That wasn't on my radar, but the same point that kinda keeps me away from the Sony that I'd really like to like otherwise applies to the zenfone as well: really short update cycles. The zenfone even more so, as the Sony is just about to be released while the zenfone is already available for almost a year. I tend to keep my phones longer, so that really is a factor.
Zenfone 10 got released in july this year. I'd buy it on the spot if the software support was longer. The only phone in recent memory that has good specs and also looks decent
Ah, the 10 is already out... I checked the 9. So at least it'll be one more year of updates, but it still just is really not much for a device that's 850 €.
Asus just quit the phone market, closed their site and application, you can not ever unlock your bootloader anymore. Zenfone are dead.
If the USB-C is wired for ground/left/right/mic then a simple $1 adapter will bring you a 3.5mm headphone jack
99% of those adapters are garbage that break down in month or so.
I am writing this on FP4 but I am also salty audio engineer and I would honestly trade my phones cameras to aux jack, just to avoid hastle.
I bought nice solid braided one on AliExpress for like $2
But is it? Is this even a USB standard or just something some vendors do sometimes?
Standard, phones from different manufacturers can use a passive dongle.
Honest question, how would i know whether the cheap passive adapter works on my phone?
You could type the model of your phone and "audio adapter" or "3.5mm adapter" into a search engine. Maybe the phone already comes with an adapter.
You need to google your phone model and "usb-c audio adapter" for instance
It's an alt mode for USBC. But I've only ever seen HTC use it.
Most just expect you use a dongle with a DAC, but I prefer this way because the dacs in phones aren't always the best.
Has the most compelling hardware features of any Fairphone yet looks like. Also, quite like the design compared to their previous attempts.
No eSIM though? It does have eSIM.
Also hope the software or rather firmware stuff is good. And would like to see some competent camera review.
Also, gotta say, funny how all the headphone jack die-hards from r/Android ended up here. As every single other comment here currently complains about it missing.
the lemmyverse feels real small right now... everyone reads everything :)
The most compelling fairphone hardware is like getting the award for tallest dwarf.
Specifically, the Qualcomm QCM6490 octa-core SoC is used in the Fairphone 5, which is actually more intended for embedded and industrial applications. The chip has eight cores and reaches up to 2.7 gigahertz, whereby the performance should be on the level of the Snapdragon 778G 5G .
(Machine translated.)
Interesting. I'll wait for benchmarks before jumping to conclusions. Considering how Qualcomm has been raising prices, I'm not really surprised that vendors are crawling down the product line.
In the article it mentions that the SoC might have been chosen because on it's extended software support of 8 years. Industrial tier electronics also usually cost more than consumer counterparts, so unlikely a cost cutting measure
Awesome. Ars just posted their review and they mention this as well. I have not used a SD 776G phone, which they say is similar. Looking at quick benchmarks, it looks like it sits around the performance level of a SD888?
Fairphone was never about the high-end. Don't expect anything marvelous.
It doesn't need to compete with current gen flagships, these are just overkill anyway even for me as a heavy user also using it for my work etc. What they do need is "good enough" performance (i.e. 2/3 years old flagship performance) and a decent camera, that's I think what was lacking that actually impacts users.
This is basically Google's approach now. I'm a little disappointed that my Pixel 7 from 2022 underperforms the 2019 flagship it replaced, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make for timely security updates.
Sounds like the Fairphone 5 might be in a similar performance tier.
I am currently typing this on my Fairphone 4. I personally do really like it and the only thing I would really complain about is the cameras. They are fine but as soon as you get into low(ish) light settings or try to zoom just a little bit it get's bad. When using 8x digital zoom you basically have pixel soup. And yes, I know digital zoom sucks. But at the same time my Galaxy S7 was older and did this soo much better.
I was also annoyed about the missing headphone jack but it turns out that it really isn't a huge problem for me. I mostly need it in my car and I just have a dongle that splits into USB-C (for charging) and 3.5mm jack that I store in my car. I don't really get why Fairphone decided against it but it really doesnt affect me as much as I feared it would.
There are currently 11 modules, which are user replaceable. It has 8GB of ram. It would've been so much cool if it was upgradable to something like 12/16GB.
Personally I use both, wireless and wired headphones/speakers. Sometimes Bluetooth is better, sometimes the headphone-jack is more convenient.
Is this so difficult to understand?
You know how convenient it is to just have some wired headphones lying around in the car in case I need them for some reason? (Like if I forgot my wireless ones for the gym).
I can't do that with wireless headphones, the battery will passively run dry.
Fairphone brings a much better device to market with better cameras, a better screen, likely a better chip, open hardware specifications and modularity, a completely unlockable bootloader (with likely support for CalyxOS and other ROM's shortly), and up to 8 years of software support(!), but people say they won't get it because no headphone jack...
MFW people have their priorities extremely mixed up... That's been the world now for 6 years, it's time to get over it. Letting perfect be the enemy of good is how you decide to throwaway something as good as what Fairphone seems to be offering. Sony still offers Android devices with headphone jacks, just don't be upset if you don't get another Android version pushed to your device.
Yeah, it's not available in my region. But, if it was, I would consider getting it. Snapdragon 778 level performance should be sufficient for most people.
Yeah, I hope the FP5 will come to the US officially too. I know the FP4 could work here, but it apparently did have issues with a carrier or two, or something.
Hopefully the 5 will bring true support for US markets.
It will be announced today, stay tuned
For me it's the camera. If the best camera I have is the one with me then the one with me is going to be the best I can buy (within reason) if they could get Samsung or Pixel quality (or iPhone I guess) that would be awesome.
Iphone and samsung did not get their camera chops in months. It took years. Fairphone would take a similar amount of time to reach that. But, yeah, i agree a good camera would be great.
Ye but I want a god damn head phone jack.
Ugh. Looks like they may never release a device with a headphone jack at this point. I'm fine with my FP3 but it still comes off a bad move.
Can they please just bring back the project manager that oversaw the FP3? Since the departure the company has made very questionable design choices and decisions (FP4 without headphone jack, and the unrepairable first gen Fairbuds)
Buy a usbc dac for everything you have with that plug from 1975. Join us in the modern world.
But that steals a port used for charging :/
I thought I didn't mind when I bought my phone that doesn't have it at first, but it really sucks having to reach for a dongle when I want to use my good headphones on the phone. If USB-C is really so superior for audio, then that would be a good argument to make 2 USB-C ports, don't you think?
Yet barely any manufacturer does it, I only ever saw it on some niche gaming phones. Even if they did that, the jack still has a place IMO, because it's still so ubiquitous even newer midrange headphone releases use it
Work phone doesn't have a 3.5mm jack, it's a lot more annoying than I expected it to be.
I think I would be sufficiently mollified if phones that remove the headphone jack had a USB-C port on the top and bottom. I'd still be annoyed but I'll be like okay they're trying to make the experience better
Exactly! Right now it's just trend and cost cutting
And pushing their bluetooth earbud sales, its a consumable!
The fact it's that old literally only proves how reliable and effective it is. I don't want to throw away a good solution for a worse solution just because somebody is trying to paint the worse solution as the future.
No headphone jack. Real shame i won't be able to use this phone.
I simply cannot understand that decision. Am I supposed to throw away all my headphones now because of this dumb, Apple initiated fad? That big vendors like Samsung and OnePlus follow the inane "courage" displayed by Apple because they also want to be "premium" is understandable, but that smaller vendors, especially the fair phone do it is just dumb.
Apple creates problems to sell you a solution
No, they think https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/usb-c-to-mini-audio-jack-adapter-3-5mm-18 is fine. (I'm not agreeing with them.)
Thanks, but pfffff. So I have to carry around another tiny thing I can lose easily. No thanks.
The idea is that you don't detach the adapter from your headphones. My experience is that it kinda works, there are even ones that allow you to charge at the same time.
I have some sympathy for Fairphone in that regard because they pay more for the materials and workers than Apple, so it forces their hand to a degree to save costs at other places. A friend has the Fairphone 3 and says the camera is unusably bad... So yeah, they cut costs and consumers stay away because they may need them. I need two physical SIM slots, for example and Fairphone has one since the 4 or so.
Headphone jack is not about cost cutting, it's about selling something with a higher profit margin.
And not detaching the adapter doesn't work when you have multiple devices.
No they don't intend you to use the adapter. They want you to buy their Bluetooth earbuds. They remove the headphone jack at the same time they introduce the earbuds. It's about pushing sales of a disposable electronic thing. To increase their overall revenue. Apple demonstrated this by huge sales of their earbuds. And everyone else once money so they're following suit. The reason Fair phone is pissing us off is because they said they weren't like other corporations, they didn't want extra e-waste, they were doing things to be sustainable, and then they pull the same dick head move. It feels like betrayal
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=Qfmeb2e_kb4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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Please stop bogging down the conversation with this every single time fairphone comes up
Lemmy is full of first adopter technologists. The kind of people who spend all day on the telephone during conference calls, video conferences, whatever. The kind of people who deal with systems that break all the time. A very vocal community who doesn't like foundational options being removed.
It's too damn big. I got a Fairphone 4 and got rid of it because I just couldn't properly use it (and because of the poor camera performance on top of that). Now they're releasing an even bigger phone? I may be the minority here, but that's a deal breaker for me. I'll need a new phone in the next few months, but right now I'm only considering the s23 or the Xperia 5 V, just because everything else is just too fucking huge.
Exactly. I'm now on 4 years old Samsung S10e, with replaced battery and display, because I can't see myself using ANY of the new phones. All of them are so giant and heavy, and I already feel like I'd like something smaller than my current one... I guess the Fairphone philosophy wins anyway, hehe.
Is the Asus Zenfone available in your region ? If yes, its a pretty compact and feature rich phone.
That wasn't on my radar, but the same point that kinda keeps me away from the Sony that I'd really like to like otherwise applies to the zenfone as well: really short update cycles. The zenfone even more so, as the Sony is just about to be released while the zenfone is already available for almost a year. I tend to keep my phones longer, so that really is a factor.
Zenfone 10 got released in july this year. I'd buy it on the spot if the software support was longer. The only phone in recent memory that has good specs and also looks decent
Ah, the 10 is already out... I checked the 9. So at least it'll be one more year of updates, but it still just is really not much for a device that's 850 €.
Asus just quit the phone market, closed their site and application, you can not ever unlock your bootloader anymore. Zenfone are dead.looks false?
https://9to5google.com/2023/08/26/asus-zenfone-series-ending-report/
Sadly no headphone jack
If the USB-C is wired for ground/left/right/mic then a simple $1 adapter will bring you a 3.5mm headphone jack
99% of those adapters are garbage that break down in month or so. I am writing this on FP4 but I am also salty audio engineer and I would honestly trade my phones cameras to aux jack, just to avoid hastle.
I bought nice solid braided one on AliExpress for like $2
But is it? Is this even a USB standard or just something some vendors do sometimes?
Standard, phones from different manufacturers can use a passive dongle.
Honest question, how would i know whether the cheap passive adapter works on my phone?
You could type the model of your phone and "audio adapter" or "3.5mm adapter" into a search engine. Maybe the phone already comes with an adapter.
You need to google your phone model and "usb-c audio adapter" for instance
It's an alt mode for USBC. But I've only ever seen HTC use it. Most just expect you use a dongle with a DAC, but I prefer this way because the dacs in phones aren't always the best.
Has the most compelling hardware features of any Fairphone yet looks like. Also, quite like the design compared to their previous attempts.
No eSIM though?It does have eSIM.Also hope the software or rather firmware stuff is good. And would like to see some competent camera review.
Also, gotta say, funny how all the headphone jack die-hards from r/Android ended up here. As every single other comment here currently complains about it missing.
the lemmyverse feels real small right now... everyone reads everything :)
The most compelling fairphone hardware is like getting the award for tallest dwarf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Rainer
The tallest dwarf is very impressive indeed.
(Machine translated.)
Interesting. I'll wait for benchmarks before jumping to conclusions. Considering how Qualcomm has been raising prices, I'm not really surprised that vendors are crawling down the product line.
In the article it mentions that the SoC might have been chosen because on it's extended software support of 8 years. Industrial tier electronics also usually cost more than consumer counterparts, so unlikely a cost cutting measure
Awesome. Ars just posted their review and they mention this as well. I have not used a SD 776G phone, which they say is similar. Looking at quick benchmarks, it looks like it sits around the performance level of a SD888?
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/08/fairphone-5-sets-a-new-standard-with-8-10-years-of-android-support/
Fairphone was never about the high-end. Don't expect anything marvelous.
It doesn't need to compete with current gen flagships, these are just overkill anyway even for me as a heavy user also using it for my work etc. What they do need is "good enough" performance (i.e. 2/3 years old flagship performance) and a decent camera, that's I think what was lacking that actually impacts users.
This is basically Google's approach now. I'm a little disappointed that my Pixel 7 from 2022 underperforms the 2019 flagship it replaced, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make for timely security updates.
Sounds like the Fairphone 5 might be in a similar performance tier.
I am currently typing this on my Fairphone 4. I personally do really like it and the only thing I would really complain about is the cameras. They are fine but as soon as you get into low(ish) light settings or try to zoom just a little bit it get's bad. When using 8x digital zoom you basically have pixel soup. And yes, I know digital zoom sucks. But at the same time my Galaxy S7 was older and did this soo much better.
I was also annoyed about the missing headphone jack but it turns out that it really isn't a huge problem for me. I mostly need it in my car and I just have a dongle that splits into USB-C (for charging) and 3.5mm jack that I store in my car. I don't really get why Fairphone decided against it but it really doesnt affect me as much as I feared it would.
There are currently 11 modules, which are user replaceable. It has 8GB of ram. It would've been so much cool if it was upgradable to something like 12/16GB.
I hope it gets a US release
Fairphone 4 with /e/OS (degoogled, privacy focused custom ROM) is available in the US. Check out https://murena.com/shop/smartphones
FP5 will probably get the same treatment.
Looks like it, yeah - they'll announce it today
Yeah, but they also mention that if you choose to install stock android onto it instead of their e/OS. They will void your warranty :/
Same, been waiting a long time
Can I get this in Ohio?
Too expensive for me. I understand why, like the whole being "fair" thing and all but those specs are not good enough for 700€.
Not even a fhd screen, only 90hz, with a camera cutout while it has bezels...
People who don't have wireless headphones yet, why are you living in 2015?
We want to reduce our phone risk surface. Bluetooth is a serious security risk
We want to be able to use the same headset on our computers and our phones
We wanted easily be able to replace our headset if it breaks anywhere in the world
We don't want to have to charge yet another thing in our daily carry bag
We want to keep everything simple so it just works always
Wired audio is lower latency, which is better when talking to people
Wired audio has higher quality! (default bluetooth microphone / headset audio is terrible...)
Damn I must have missed all those news articles about people hacking phones because the users were listening to music wirelessly.
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=bluetooth
Holy shit, i knew it was bad but not that bad
Why not let ppl chose what they want to use?
Personally I use both, wireless and wired headphones/speakers. Sometimes Bluetooth is better, sometimes the headphone-jack is more convenient.
Is this so difficult to understand?
You know how convenient it is to just have some wired headphones lying around in the car in case I need them for some reason? (Like if I forgot my wireless ones for the gym).
I can't do that with wireless headphones, the battery will passively run dry.