Sometimes it seems we are too evolved for our own good but I like to think this tendency of ours will lead to a greater good.
That theory goes out the window when you have a city sliker meet a farm animal in person. One of my favorite childhood pass times was seeing city blokes cower in fear of petting a chicken or goat especially when that same person has pictures of chickens in their home because they are cute
The goat I understand. Those fuckers are mean, and they bite. Who TF is afraid of a chicken? Turkey, sure. Again, they are mean and big enough to fight back. The chickens found out that they "can" become soccer balls if they piss off the ape that is bringing them food.
Who TF is afraid of a chicken?
Have you not met any chickens? They can be downright NASTY. And a lot of people don't have it in them to kick a chicken.
Yeah. A wise person checks their footing before kicking a chicken.
I lived on a farm as a kid and had to kick them out of the way to feed the little fuckers. They aren't scary, but yeah they are ill-tempered and nasty, if you don't out mass them by several times their mass. Kicking in this sense is more like shoving them with your foot, unless one of the fuckers bites, then they get a more forceful shove, that causes them to use their wings since they go a few inches off the ground.
Well yeah. I think scary is subjective on that sense. I have a big dog who used to be fear aggressive toward me and he didn't scare me (even though I knew he could kill me if he tried). It's about how comfortable we are in a situation, I suppose. My wife got attacked by coyotes once, so she's more cautious around them than any of our neighbors.
You'd be surprised by how many blokes are afraid of the adorable little balls of feathers that are always running away from them
I've got a mug from a town I used to live in. It's a rooster with the name "Shitty Larry" written across it. He was a local celeb. A rooster so badly behaved he had to be rehomed, and the people who adopted him created a whole lifestyle around dealing with his "antics".
As I was leaving, Fucking Frank was also coming into the spotlight.
They're assholes. But they taste good.
My grandmother raised chickens and there was rooster that used to harass my mother and her siblings and they hated the rooster. Apparently one day the rooster pecked at my grandmother's leg and then they had rooster stew for dinner. Point of the story is that roosters are assholes.
Coq au vin is worth it for the time and labour to prepare it.
I live in a largely portuguese area, but there are definitely "cousin" dishes to Coq au Vin, chicken and chourico (or linguica) stews with a dash of saffron or paprika, some good portuguese wine. Deliciuos.
Well that, and we never cook with Port around here, it's always dry wine or Madeira. Madeira is a much sweeter Port, which totally changes the flavor. I'll show this particular recipe to my wife and get her take.
I wonder, is this a mainland recipe maybe? Everyone around here is Azorean, which can slightly tweak the common ingredients. I watched a Bifana video last summer where the guy used CHEESE and it made everyone I know swear at him. You don't use Cheese in anything portuguese around here except Cheese Rolls.
Madeira is much more dry than Port wine. The soil of the island and the salty breeze are enough to change the nature of the wine at the grape level; plus, it's a fortified wine. Good Madeira should end on a slightly bitter, somewhat acidic note.
Port wine grows inland, on hills, where a river cuts across deep valeys. Any Port is sweet by nature, very round on the mouth, with wood and berry notes. The whites tend to be slightly more dry, with a somewhat citrus or flower note, but nonetheless sweet.
You can cook with these wines, especially if you want to flex a bit and add a few dimensions to the end result but plain wine os more than enough; Portugal was always essentially a poor country. Wine was prolific but fine wines like Port amd Madeira were luxury items and most of our traditional cuisine was born in farm kitchens, where food needed to be plentiful and tasteful, to help push away a hard day of labor.
Drowning meat in wine is almost standard fare. One especially traditional rabbit stew involves drowning the meat in red wine, over night, with garlic, onions and bay leaves, seasoned with some salt and pepper, and the next day cook it very slowly in a clay pot in the hoven. After a few hours, the meat should peel of the bone. Try it, if you can.
And cheese usually is not part of the main dish, unless you're serving francesinha or some preparation of hoven baked cod, where you may grate some island cheese on top for salt and the bitterness of it.
Bifana with cheese. That's criminal.
Madeira is much more dry than Port wine. The soil of the island and the salty breeze are enough to change the nature of the wine at the grape level; plus, it’s a fortified wine. Good Madeira should end on a slightly bitter, somewhat acidic note.
I've heard of dry Madeiera, but I've never tried it. Acidic, yes. Local Madeiras are very sweet around here. The most popular brand of Madeira in my area is effectively reduced grape juice mixed with Brandy. Sickeningly, coyingly sweet. My area perhaps the largest Portuguese Festival in the world (Feast of the Blessed Sacrament) is drink-sponsored by Justino's Madeira, and it's like drinking alcoholic maple syrup. It's freaking delicious, for all of 2 oz pour and then it gets hard to finish :) The local Madeira's have raisin or prune notes.
Now Port. We've got Sandalman and Pacheca. That can get fairly heavy, in either sweet or dry direction. I haven't had a bone dry port, but I'm told they exist. I always have a bottle of Port in the house. Not so much Madeira. Special occasions only (not the price, it's cheap. The extreme sweetness).
You can cook with these wines, especially if you want to flex a bit and add a few dimensions to the end result but plain wine os more than enough
I like the one-two punch of Sherry and Brandy much of the time. However, my wife and her family always uses a good Vinho Verde for her dishes. Cacoila is one of the local staples, and it's basically pork left to soak in wine forever with a few secret ingredients (usually at least some some paprika)
One especially traditional rabbit stew involves drowning the meat in red wine, over night, with garlic, onions and bay leaves, seasoned with some salt and pepper, and the next day cook it very slowly in a clay pot in the hoven
OMG... I had that once at one of the local places (Captain's place, since I've already doxed myself regarding the Festa). It was incredible. Rabbit isn't common here, so it was a special. I've never seen it since :(
And cheese usually is not part of the main dish, unless you’re serving francesinha or some preparation of hoven baked cod, where you may grate some island cheese on top for salt and the bitterness of it.
francesinha looks incredible. I've never seen it around here. I'm guessing it's a mainland dish? We have Sao Jorge cheese around here, but we only eat it straight. Also, nobody around here puts cheese with Cod, but baccalhau is often made with milk, so it's not a huge stretch to me.
Francesinha is a traditional dish from Porto. Mainland.
Regarding bacalhau, we only have about 1001 different recipes to prepare it. There are a lot of ingredients with which to cook it with.
Off the top of my head I can think of Bacalhau Espiritual and Bacalhau com Azeitonas, which are both baked.
Bacalhau Espiritual is prepared with scalded bacalhau, just enough to easily peel the fish and debone it, flaking it. Usually the water will have a clove or two of fresh garlic and a bay leaf. When the fish is out, take a few laddles of water into a bowl and throw some small peeled shrimps, of the frozen kind into it. Let it steep.
On the side, prepare mashed potatoes; use one egg yolk per person, minus one, for more than two persons eating, for color and richness, and season it with nutmeg but don't fully season it with salt. You want a thick, creamy, mash.
Cut two good sized onions in rings and lightly fry it in olive oil, until tender; add the shrimp and two or three table spoons of the water into the mix. Evaporate it. Throw two or three table spoons of white wine on it and evaporate it again. Add some finely chopped fresh parsley when you take it from the heat.
In an oven safe glass or clay deep dish, pour a layer of mashed potatoes, smooth it, spread the cooked onions on top, with the shrimp, and cover with the flaked bacalhau. Pour a second layer of mashed potatoes on top.
Sprinkle with breadcrumbs and grate some queijo da ilha on top. Take to the oven until the bread is golden brown and the cheese has melted.
The cheese will add the missing salt to the potato mash and bind the entire dish together with its sharpness.
Bacalhau com azeitonas uses potatoes cut into small cubes, parboiled, with the bacalhau prepared in the same fashion and no shrimp.
The onions are slightly fried, until soft, along with some garlic, freshned up with some white wine at the end, allowed to boil a bit to take away the alcohol; you want liquid in the pan. Turn off the heat.
Throw the potatoes in, mix well, add a good hand full of olives, combine.
Cover the bottom of an oven safe dish with the flaked cod, cover with the potatoes. Sprinkle with a bit of finely grated cheese for extra salt and that sharpness. Take to the oven until the potatoes are fully cooked, golden, and the cheese melt. Sprinkle with fresh parsley before serving.
Not being a person of faith, I consider it borderline sinful to cook with vinho verde; too good for it. If you can, try and find some Alentejo, Douro or Dão. Three diferent regions, with very distinct wines. Just by playing around with the wine you use to cook you can get wildly diferent results.
Ever heard about chanfana? It's either old sheep or goat, left to marinate in red wine, onions, garlic, rosemary and bay leaves for days, then slowly cooked in the oven. It can take an entire day to properly cook it but the end result is a very tender meat. Goes well with potatoes. And some more wine.
The Port brands you mention are mostly export brands. Pacheca is quite pricey for our market, in fact. Like any other wine, Port is plentiful here, with a bottle starting at less than €5. And of good quality. Even supermarket brands are good. Port wine undergoes very strict production requirements to be classfied and labelled as such. Cheap, yes. Knockoff, no. I often buy a lesser known brand, Porto Intermares; its what I call an old style Port, unapolegetic, straight to the point, uncompromised. It will get you drunk and fast and warn you in advance but you just want to keep enjoying another little sip.
And you're giving me the chills with that description of the Madeira. Give it to me dry, please.
What people need to realize, especially those in peta, is that we cannot compare the suffering and mass killing animals to the same happening to humans. Speaking to someone who loves animals, they are a completely different life form that do not have human morals, values, intelligence, or emotion.
Which isn't to say that they don't have their own intelligence or emotion, it's just very different from what the human thought process is like.
Thus it would be absurd to put them on the same pedestal as homosapiens, evolutionarily speaking.
Life is not a Disney cartoon, that I understand that I will be down voted by vegans who don't understand this and will call me cruel.
That said I obviously support the Humane treatment of animals, but if you think I'm going to stop eating a creature that would eat me with far less hesitation if the roles were reversed, you are truly a fool.
We had chickens when I was a teen. They regularily hunted, killed and ate small rodents, lizards/snakes and sometimes even small birds like young sparrows whenever they could catch them - everything that fits into a chicken's beak is fair game. And it wasn't exactly a pretty sight. Imagine a single panicked field mouse being chased by sixteen feathered mini velociraptors, all trying to kill the mouse first, and then all fighting each other FOR the (hopefully) dead prey, as noone ever wanted to share their kill.
Funnily enough, the rooster was was a cuddly little idiot. (he got beaten up by the hens occasionally)
And just t add some proof for some of the points above, here's a video of a single hen killing a hawk (warning, it is kinda graphic). They don't even need great numbers to shred their wannabe predators - one really p*ssed off chicken and an opportunity to strike back, that's all it takes.
I didn't witness it but there are a few chicken farms around the area - the kind where chickens can freely roam around a huge shed - and I was told from an acquaintace that works at one they had been on the lookout for foxes, as they had already destroyed a few coops around the farm.
One morning they arrive at the barn to find a few dead chickens and two foxes partially skeletonized on the floor. It was a gruesome sight and the recording from the security cameras showed the foxes had been completely overrun by a mob of angry chickens that pecked, kicked and essentially killed by the thousand cuts method the poor wannabe predators.
The few chickens the foxes managed to kill were not enough to deter the mob but instead served to further spur it into a killer frenzy.
Because foxes are a protectes species, they had to call the authorities to give notice and have the cadavers picked up. Even the municipal vet was horrified at the state the chickens had left the foxes.
i've heard chickens will just casually peck others to death if they have a wound too, like it's not even malice or removing competition, they just do it from some fucked up instinct.
I own chickens and have had a bullying problem in the past. In the winter they have a lot less space and they get bored and stressed easily. The hen that took the "rooster"/protector role started pecking the smallest and sweetest chicken and drew blood. I had to keep the small chicken isolated from the flock for a few weeks while its wounds healed and put special goggles on the bully chicken for a month- they prevent it from seeing in front of itself so it forgets what's there after a few seconds. Yeah they can be vicious, but it's definitely preventable if they're raised right instead of at a factory farm.
Won't pigs gladly eat a whole person
I'm pretty sure i saw somewhere that mexican cartels would use pigs as a method to dispose bodys pretty grim
Italian mafia devised the method first. Will only leave the teeth, for some reason.
Read once an article where it was stated these "special purpose" pigs were kept hungry for a few days before a disposal, for faster results, and could even be used as a torture method, as the animals would attack any human figure on sight, dead or alive.
Now imagine slowly lowering a live human being into a pig pen full of these quasi feral animals, feet first.
Jesus that sounds agonising
I once read about a turkey that had to be wraped in a tea towel to allow a wound to heal as the creature kept pecking at it and ripping out pieces of flesh that would glady eat.
That is pretty high on the extreme behavior list. And I think it was a pet turkey.
Jesus
You could save all of this cruelty by using egg substitutes and faux meats instead.
I could keep these little dinosaurs as pets, with no other objective or purpose besides admiring them because they are pretty to look at and that would not prevent any of the behaviors I listed.
What I'm about to say may evade you but cruelty is not an exclusive trait to human beings and chicken are a good example of it. They can be extremely cruel towards their own kind just for the sake of it. Not out of scarcity of food or living space. Just because they want to make another animal miserable.
They call it cock fighting for a reason, and no this ain't no dick joke
Hate animal fights. The only animal fights I'll condone involve two homo sapiens trying to pour each others brains through their hear onto the ground, by means of punches and/or kicks to the head, at the sound of a bell.
they could care more about family ties.
ugh, the consequences of internet grammarian fascism: people using normative language to make a quirky riff on a nonsense "rule"
They're intelligent and very instinctive birds from birth- that doesn't mean that they're vicious though. My chickens that I'm raising are all sweethearts. It's all a matter of their environment. If you overcrowd them in an indoor factory farm of course they're going to turn on each other, they're extremely stressed out. Chickens that are raised outdoors with lots of space and different kinds of food are a lot less likely to act up and turn on each other. You can even taste a noticeable difference in eggs from happy chickens.
Roosters on the other hand are usually fucking assholes.
I had about a dozen chickens in an outdoors coop, with plenty of space (about 32 cubic metres of tridimensional space) and often carried them around in a chicken tractor (birds of prey area where I live) for grazing and some individuals exihibited extreme behaviors.
Again, variations will occur from breed to breed and from individual to individual.
Some breeds are especially known for being tamer than others and more concerned with eggs and brood than others.
I'll partially agree on your statement that all roosters are assholes: we had one that enjoyed crowing when we were trying to talk anywhere in the bird's line of sight.
Well it may not have had much a family since hens cannibalise their chicks.
God fucked up and made them way too tasty
Chickens are basically tiny raptors. They even hunt mice when given the chance
It's actually for that reason why my family liked to joke about how the chicken were better at pest control than our cats especially every time we found a dead mouse in the coop or a cat getting bored of a mouse. Honestly the only reason my family keeped the cats we had was because people kept abandoning cats at my grandparents barn and we just find the poor little guys cute
"just case the textbook anti-PETA rhetoric comes into the thread…
This is why people hate PETA.
Yes, PETA does some crazy shit, but as with many things there are two sides to the story which is difficult to see when you get bombarded by anti-PETA stuff as is common on e.g. Reddit.
Anti-PETA efforts by the meat industry:
Sites like www.petakillsanimals.com are run by the Center for Organizational Research and Education, which is a lobbying platform for the fast food, meat, alcohol and tobacco industries. They also target the humane society, even John Oliver did a piece on them and their founder Richard Berman. That’s just one outlet for their misinformation-campains, they are also cited in lots of blogs and “news articles” as well, so it’s not always very obvious.
They are the driving power behind all the misinformation and PETA-hate that is spread around. PETA is actually doing a lot for animal rights, that’s why they are such a big target for smear campaigns:
[Their biggest victories] (https://www.peta.org/about-peta/milestones/)
[All victories sorted by recent] (https://www.peta.org/about-peta/victories/) (several per week!)
See also http://www.petakillsanimalsscam.com/
PETA and their kill-shelters:
PETA kills animals because unfortunately there are no better places for them. Blame the puppy mills and irresponsible short term owners that give up their pets a few days or weeks after getting them because they had no idea what they got themselves into. Those people create more pets than there are places for them, so instead of having them become strays and further add to the problem, PETA put down those they can’t adopt out. Because PETA accepts all animals, even those that other shelters turn away in order to not sully their adoption numbers, PETA shelters end up with many more “hopeless” animals. See more here.
The case of the mistaken dog (and how PETA doesn’t steal and murder pets):
A farmer asked PETA to euthanise a pack of stray dogs that were aggressive and violent towards the farmer’s cows. Upon arrival, PETA found the pack of stray dogs, took them to the shelter and put them down, as a free service. Unfortunately it turned out, that one of the presumed stray dogs was a pet-chihuaha called Maya, that was not sitting on the porch, as often claimed, but running freely with the stray pack, without leash or collar or supervision. PETA fucked up, because they didn’t wait the 5 day grace period to give the owners time to look for and collect their pet. That’s why they had to pay a fine and apologized for it. http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/maya.html
The monkey selfie:
The monkey took the picture himself btw, the photographer just left the camera lying around. I am not saying the monkey should be copyright holder and it’s an open-shut case, but it does raise the question about the photographer having ownership over something that was voluntarily and independently created by an animal. What if a painter would leave his brushes lying around and an animal would create a painting? The artist actually sees it the same way and settled for a compromise with PETA followed by a joint statement. This was a landmark case in copyright law.
PETA equating milk to racism:
White supremacists actually use milk to demonstrate their superiority over “inferior” (their words, obviously) lactose intolerant ethnicities. That’s the reason behind their campaign on the issue.
Final thoughts (I promise):
PETA does a good job at raising issues and are one of the most successfull organisations to fight for animal rights. The granting of rights is the only real way to protect animals from unneccessary cruelty. Animal welfare will always be arbitrary, both in what species are worthy of protection, and the extent of protection they are worthy of. You cannot consider yourself an animal lover without recognizing the importance of that.
Sometimes PETA (intentionally?) overshoot, that happens when you try to move the border of current perceptions (i.e. animals are objects to be used for food, clothes, entertainment). I am not here to defend their tone or (lack of) tact, and there are a number of (sometimes downright stupid) PETA-campaigns I disagree with. I’m not trying to convice you to become their friend, but at least judge them for what they are doing, not for what they are said to do.
Most of the criticism of PETA you read on Reddit comes straight from the mouths of the Center for Organizational Research and Education (CORE), formerly known as the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). It’s basically a corporate propaganda organization with donors like Tyson Foods, Wendy’s, and Coca-Cola. They also run campaigns claiming obesity isn’t that major of a problem and that you can eat 10 times as much mercury from fish as experts recommend. The vast majority of the animals PETA euthanizes are suffering and are brought to PETA’s shelter by their owners specifically to be put out of their misery, but the CCF distorts that into “PETA is stealing people’s pets off the streets” and Reddit gobbles it up.
The media also knows that PETA is an easy target. Years ago I read an article in one of the British tabloids (the Sun or the Mirror) with a headline something like, “PETA blasts child’s bunny wedding!” But if you actually read the article, what happened is a kid dressed up some bunnies in wedding outfits, the “journalist” reached out to PETA and asked them to comment, and PETA said something like, “we don’t support dressing rabbits in costumes because it may be stressful for them.” And that was the end of the story, but that wouldn’t get clicks so they distorted the headline to make it sound like PETA was protesting or attacking the kid on their own accord.
For the record, I think there are perfectly legitimate criticisms of PETA, like the sexist imagery they use in some of their ad campaigns and their welfarist (as opposed to abolitionist) approach to advocacy. It just gets to me that so many redditors claim to be rational and free-thinking but then read literal corporate propaganda about PETA and swallow it whole without a second thought.
I don't do gish gallops, so I'm just going to address this:
PETA kills animals because unfortunately there are no better places for them.
That is bullshit. There are no kill shelters all over the country. There's one in my town. They didn't even euthanize after they were overwhelmed when we had a huge storm that destroyed structures. They just found people who would foster while they could rehome as much as they could. PETA doesn't do that.
British journalist Mehdi Hasan suggests using these three steps to beat the Gish gallop:
Because there are too many falsehoods to address, it is wise to choose one as an example. Choose the weakest, dumbest, most ludicrous argument that your opponent has presented and tear this argument to shreds (also known as the weak point rebuttal).
Do not budge from the issue. Don't move on until you have decisively destroyed the nonsense and clearly made your point.
Call it out: name the strategy. "This is a strategy called the 'Gish Gallop'. Do not be fooled by the flood of nonsense you have just heard."
I'd just stop now. I just realized who you're commenting with, and the guy just had a long-ass pissy argument. When I slowed down to show him evidence, he kept changing topics and then ragequit when it didn't work.
Feel free to check my comment history (or his) for proof of this.
Can also check my comment history I'm just going to try and ignore dx1 although I don't know how effective that's going be considering he's on every god dam comment winging and moaning
Well, damn. I got to you too late. Or vice versa.
My wife brought home popeyes since my last comment to you. It's better than KFC 🐔 😁
I wish I could give popeyes ago sadly I'm across the pond sounds nice enjoy
Their spicy chicken is to die for, and like 90% less greasy than KFC. And I haven't done the math, but I think they're cheaper, too.
We fry our own chicken sometimes, and are pretty damn good cooks. And we prefer Popeyes. Which says something.
Sounds amazing m8 propa stuff if popeyes ever come to the uk I'll.make sure to give it ago some other amercian fast food chains are coming over such as taco Bell I remember seeing that in a few places
It's weird. I normally avoid chain on anything local-friendly. We have tons of chicken farms around (though, they mostly make eggs. A good friend of ours has meat chickens) Just something about Popeyes.
Also, fingers crossed for you gettin it. I'll trade you all the great Indian food you have there in the UK, though!
EDIT: I'd say "fish and chips", but I live on the ocean, so our seafood is comparable, if our cooking styles different)
Locals always best innit better quality stuff plus you get to support your local businesses
Yes, start with the Wikipedia one, that actually begins to examine it critically and points out that this campaign against PETA was spearheaded by an animal industry lobbying group...
I love it when people say this without even suggesting where to do this research. Let me guess- Google it. Because that's what I already did.
There's the approach I have to fact-check things, I don't know what other approach people have honestly. Look up fact-checking, debunking etc. on it. I know there are dozens to hundreds of pages that fact-check the parroted "PETA euthanizes too many dogs" claim. I honestly can't believe people are still bringing this one up, I don't know how it could possibly be on me to start digging up sources for you.
"Just look it up until a fringe source from an unknown media group ""debunks"" it, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary, then change your entire point of view from it" in other words: just google the opposite of what you said and go with that answer plz thx. Color me convinced! For the record: every fact check I looked up corroborated the obvious: PETA euthanizes pets at an obscene rate compared to even the most ruthless pounds in the us.
No, look up individual claims, look up the inverse of the claim, weigh the presented evidence against each other.
I.e., look up the mitigating factors here - was this an isolated case? Was it isolated to one state? Were animals from no-kill shelters dumped on the PETA-run shelter? What's the actual funding of this shelter compared to PETA's general operations? You know, ACTUAL THOROUGH ANALYSIS. Take the actual facts in question and put them properly in context instead of just swallowing literal animal ag industry propaganda coming out of groups like the Weston Price Foundation that have a vested interest in discrediting groups like PETA.
It's like every time people post something false, and you know it's false, you can't just let them know, they expect you to spend the next two hours of your life pulling up all the sources to show them, again and again and again and again and again and again. I've had this exact same conversation dozens of times, I'm sick of it. Can you not just learn how to research for yourself? Can you not post the discredited claim in the first place so we don't have to constantly play this game? Like, do the fact checking properly in the first place?
It’s like every time people post something false, and you know it’s false, you can’t just let them know, they expect you to spend the next two hours of your life pulling up all the sources to show them, again and again and again and again and again and again. I’ve had this exact same conversation dozens of times, I’m sick of it.
seems like you know how to avoid this, but you choose instead to get mad at people asking you to support your own claims.
I'm a full-time meat eater, but I respect vegans who don't go around minding people's businesses, which is exactly what peta does.
All activism could be called "minding people's business". That's not really a fair criticism.
I think that's the problem. So many people are unaware of the difference between vegans, militant vegans, and peta-assholes. The second and third are the hardest to differentiate (and they are different)
When you can someone to start ranting about depopulation intervention and driving food species to extinction, then you found the PETA (also the PITA)
Based
not really. peta militancy helps no one. you arent going to make people eat less meat by being assholes and shame people for eating meat. Peta would have better results is they just advocated for people to eat less meat and be more conscious about where there food in general comes from as well as advocating for proper animal care and awareness. They are never going to stop people from eating meat and they seem to refuse to accept that.
Dude that's like saying that any form of activism that calls you out on shitty behaviour is in vain and shouldn't be practised. Not a good take
That's not what I'm saying at all.
I am saying in PETAs case, they would catch more flys with honey, rather than vinegar. I don't believe that making fun of people and making them feel bad about a system that isn't transparent is the way to go. Compassion and education in this case, would work best. imo. Small incremental steps - not wholesale instant change.
Leave the dirty work to the ALF. Which I also support. :)
Indeed, fuck peta
See my message above in response to flying squid. Same message response.
Don't you mean peter like Peter Griffin
Or maybe the dude from The Hunger Games? You know, the weird one with the bad name?
What do you mean they all have bad names
True, but IMO his is the worst one and he's supposed to be one of the normal ones but has a weirder vibe than most of the ones that are SUPPOSED to be all weird and futuristic.
Kinda like an emo Eminem with super strength but even weirder.
That too, but not as much as PeTA
What about petAh griffin
Yeah, fuck him too
You want to fuck petah Griffin? Oh no oh no oh no no no
They had hopes and dreams, a 10-year plan, they JUST bought a new car, their eldest daughter just had a child...
You're right, chickens and humans are basically identical
So sad its joeover litterally cryin rn
I have decided to lock the comments of this post. There's been too much toxic engagement.
Remember when we were gullible enough to think that PETA was a reputable organization.
A shame JREF is too quiet to change their public reception..
And you can rest easy knowing the chicken also likes to eat chicken (and chicks), just like you 😀 maybe not that last part
Lol
VeGaNs BAAAD amirite??? Updoots to the left my fellow narwhals *tips fedora*
Vegans are fine, PETA on the other hand is a shitty horrible organization that needs to burn in a fire.
Vegans are like religious people: most of them are totally fine. It's the preachy and overly defensive ones that suck.
Would you also consider it preachy when people criticize other cases of animal harm, like bullfighting or dog beating, or is it just the financing of factory farming that can't be criticized? If not, what's the difference? It's troublesome that people enforce a social stigma that you can't talk about what we do to farm animals without suffering social consequences.
Dude made a joke at preachy hypocrites who kill a shitload of dogs. Lighten up and save your strawmen for another time.
Who kills a shitload of dogs? I think you replied to the wrong comment.
Peta do. They operate a shitload of shelters, none of which are no-kill.
You wrote vegans, not peta. Most vegans have nothing to do with Peta.
In this case I was talking about the OP tweet exchange, in which a guy replies specifically to peta
And in my other comments I wasn't referring to vegans in general either, only the preachy and overdefensive ones. All the vegans I know IRL are good people who aren't constantly preachy and defensive.
Yeah, it's the ones who talk about their thoughts that are the issue. Fucking jerks!
You can talk about your thoughts without being overly sensitive to criticism and ridicule. If you'd just chill the fuck out, I bet most other vegans would like you more too.
I am not accepting non-vegans' opinions on how to be a better vegan at this time. I will keep your comments on file.
I'm not offering you advice on how to be a vegan. I have no experience with being a vegan, so I wouldn't be qualified.
I do, however, have a lot of experience with not acting like an insufferable zealot with a persecution complex.
Yes, this is the typical reaction people have to vegans saying ANYTHING. It is not fun for us to live our entire lives prohibited from ever being able to say what WE THINK. You clearly do not have experience being a vegan, the social reception you get for taking a perfectly reasonable stance is just open hostility that you're not even allowed to defend yourself against. Which is on full display to anyone reading this thread.
This is a typical reaction to people like you not vegans vegetarians or other diets or food fads I don't shit on someone because they like pink sauce I shit on someone based on the character and personality
Fun fact: like most people, I'm pretty damn ridiculous at times. This means that I sometimes am the object of criticism and/or ridicule. You and I have that in common.
Here's the difference, though: I don't go out of my way to play the persecuted martyr.
Not eating meat is a perfectly reasonable personal decision. Not using any animal products of any kind sounds difficult to the point of constant exhaustion to me personally, but if that's what makes you happy, then that's good.
Just like the bad kind of religious person though, you're preaching that everyone who doesn't make the same choice is wrong and should be ashamed of themselves. While simultaneously acting like everyone's out to get you no matter what you say and do. That's not not reasonable.
I am not "going out of my way to play the persecuted martyr", I opened the Lemmy home page and "post trashing vegans" was post #3. I thought I left this shit behind when I left reddit, but now it's here too.
Not using animal products is not exhausting. I've done it for a decade and it's a remarkably easy change where 99% of the difficulty comes from the wider society being hostile to it.
It is an ethical position based on an actual reality of animal agriculture causing vast suffering that we have chosen to opt out of supporting. It is absolutely reasonable and selfless to advocate for the rights of others at a minor, negligible personal sacrifice. It is not a sign of a need to shame others, a need to be a martyr, or any other personality defect that you're going to project on vegans based on a stereotype despite knowing NOTHING about any of us as individuals. Nobody is trying to make you "feel ashamed", we are pointing out objective facts about how the animal ag industry causes harm to animals, and then people like you, like you're doing in this comment, right here, launch into this whole frigging diatribe about how vegans are shaming you and judging you and have a god complex and should just shut up and go back into their corners, because god forbid anyone should ever suggest that anything you're doing is less than perfectly ethical.
It's bullshit. I don't know what else to tell you. I've been living with this for years and it's absolute bullshit. Your position is wrong, it's not a statement about you as a person, it's a statement you should change your behavior. We are NOT at fault for showing the truth of the matter, that's just a reactionary and ignorant position that people use to try to rationalize what's convenient for them.
There's absolutely no way, based on everything you've already said, that reading that novel will be worth the time and effort. Go take a nap or something.
How would you be a better vegan? Is there a competitive vegan league? Is there a cash prize that goes out to whoever can anthropomorphize animals the most in dogshit ads? Because if so, I think making an Islamic state beheading video but with chickens shouting "Death to KFC!" Would really sell veganism to the American audience. Or maybe we could settle for annoying shitposters on a meme community. Both have an equal chance of working (0%)
If petah made an Islamic beheading video with chickens shouting death to kfc I would immediately reconsider my dietary choices
Although I should reconsider my dietary choices already it's not like I make good ones
He replied to me acting like I was at fault for defending myself. IDK why you're going on this tangent of all the perceived slights vegans have done against you by speaking their minds. This is really fucked up, tbph, there's a completely unreasonable expectation that vegans are never to speak about the ethics of animal agriculture to anyone.
See that's interesting, when I tried to respectfully speak my mind on the vegan community in lemmy they just banned me after one comment, but exuse me for laughing at vegans whenever they leave their walled gardens and cry when nobody on the lemmy shitposting community wants to hear from the vegan community. You talk up and down about intellect and facts, but whenever I actually engage with vegans they have (90% of the time) just deleted or banned any criticism. That may or may not be you, but when you talk about vegans as a whole being this "oppressed community" unable to speak their mind, it's just funny to me. Because at least here, you can come and be ridiculed, but you won't be banned or censored.
I have a pretty good sense you posted something inflammatory and obnoxious in a vegan community, and frankly that doesn't excuse you being hostile to vegans elsewhere, even if it was something you wrote in good faith and got banned for. Pointing out "hypocrisy" on the part of a group of people with heterogenous beliefs does not make sense.
My favorite "my group is too big, thus you can't criticize it because there may be two whole people who aren't obnoxious" defense. Hate to break it to you, but I can. Until literally ONE Vegan behaves differently then any I have engaged with, I can and will continue labeling the community as obnoxious. You are also not helping their case.
You're literally lumping people into the stereotype that they're obnoxious and preachy based on them defending themselves against public accusations that they're obnoxious and preachy. That's an irrational, circular stance.
How is this defending yourself? your just constantly whining and bitching.
As someone who raised chickens: they could care more about family ties.
Of course there will be differences between breeds and individuals but some things I witnessed:
Chickens are not gentle. In great enough numbers, chickens will even attack their predator. The birds can evaluate risk/success odds.
Again, there are more tame breeds and less tame ones. Some are the spawn of the deep pits where nightmares fester and grow.
Far to many people that have no experience with animals give them human thoughts and competency.
Anthropomorphism.
That's a mouth full.
Sometimes it seems we are too evolved for our own good but I like to think this tendency of ours will lead to a greater good.
That theory goes out the window when you have a city sliker meet a farm animal in person. One of my favorite childhood pass times was seeing city blokes cower in fear of petting a chicken or goat especially when that same person has pictures of chickens in their home because they are cute
The goat I understand. Those fuckers are mean, and they bite. Who TF is afraid of a chicken? Turkey, sure. Again, they are mean and big enough to fight back. The chickens found out that they "can" become soccer balls if they piss off the ape that is bringing them food.
Have you not met any chickens? They can be downright NASTY. And a lot of people don't have it in them to kick a chicken.
Yeah. A wise person checks their footing before kicking a chicken.
I lived on a farm as a kid and had to kick them out of the way to feed the little fuckers. They aren't scary, but yeah they are ill-tempered and nasty, if you don't out mass them by several times their mass. Kicking in this sense is more like shoving them with your foot, unless one of the fuckers bites, then they get a more forceful shove, that causes them to use their wings since they go a few inches off the ground.
Well yeah. I think scary is subjective on that sense. I have a big dog who used to be fear aggressive toward me and he didn't scare me (even though I knew he could kill me if he tried). It's about how comfortable we are in a situation, I suppose. My wife got attacked by coyotes once, so she's more cautious around them than any of our neighbors.
You'd be surprised by how many blokes are afraid of the adorable little balls of feathers that are always running away from them
I've got a mug from a town I used to live in. It's a rooster with the name "Shitty Larry" written across it. He was a local celeb. A rooster so badly behaved he had to be rehomed, and the people who adopted him created a whole lifestyle around dealing with his "antics".
As I was leaving, Fucking Frank was also coming into the spotlight.
They're assholes. But they taste good.
My grandmother raised chickens and there was rooster that used to harass my mother and her siblings and they hated the rooster. Apparently one day the rooster pecked at my grandmother's leg and then they had rooster stew for dinner. Point of the story is that roosters are assholes.
Coq au vin is worth it for the time and labour to prepare it.
I live in a largely portuguese area, but there are definitely "cousin" dishes to Coq au Vin, chicken and chourico (or linguica) stews with a dash of saffron or paprika, some good portuguese wine. Deliciuos.
Try this one if you can: frango na púcara
Minus the Parsley, I'd swear I have had similar.
Well that, and we never cook with Port around here, it's always dry wine or Madeira. Madeira is a much sweeter Port, which totally changes the flavor. I'll show this particular recipe to my wife and get her take.
I wonder, is this a mainland recipe maybe? Everyone around here is Azorean, which can slightly tweak the common ingredients. I watched a Bifana video last summer where the guy used CHEESE and it made everyone I know swear at him. You don't use Cheese in anything portuguese around here except Cheese Rolls.
Madeira is much more dry than Port wine. The soil of the island and the salty breeze are enough to change the nature of the wine at the grape level; plus, it's a fortified wine. Good Madeira should end on a slightly bitter, somewhat acidic note.
Port wine grows inland, on hills, where a river cuts across deep valeys. Any Port is sweet by nature, very round on the mouth, with wood and berry notes. The whites tend to be slightly more dry, with a somewhat citrus or flower note, but nonetheless sweet.
You can cook with these wines, especially if you want to flex a bit and add a few dimensions to the end result but plain wine os more than enough; Portugal was always essentially a poor country. Wine was prolific but fine wines like Port amd Madeira were luxury items and most of our traditional cuisine was born in farm kitchens, where food needed to be plentiful and tasteful, to help push away a hard day of labor.
Drowning meat in wine is almost standard fare. One especially traditional rabbit stew involves drowning the meat in red wine, over night, with garlic, onions and bay leaves, seasoned with some salt and pepper, and the next day cook it very slowly in a clay pot in the hoven. After a few hours, the meat should peel of the bone. Try it, if you can.
And cheese usually is not part of the main dish, unless you're serving francesinha or some preparation of hoven baked cod, where you may grate some island cheese on top for salt and the bitterness of it.
Bifana with cheese. That's criminal.
I've heard of dry Madeiera, but I've never tried it. Acidic, yes. Local Madeiras are very sweet around here. The most popular brand of Madeira in my area is effectively reduced grape juice mixed with Brandy. Sickeningly, coyingly sweet. My area perhaps the largest Portuguese Festival in the world (Feast of the Blessed Sacrament) is drink-sponsored by Justino's Madeira, and it's like drinking alcoholic maple syrup. It's freaking delicious, for all of 2 oz pour and then it gets hard to finish :) The local Madeira's have raisin or prune notes.
Now Port. We've got Sandalman and Pacheca. That can get fairly heavy, in either sweet or dry direction. I haven't had a bone dry port, but I'm told they exist. I always have a bottle of Port in the house. Not so much Madeira. Special occasions only (not the price, it's cheap. The extreme sweetness).
I like the one-two punch of Sherry and Brandy much of the time. However, my wife and her family always uses a good Vinho Verde for her dishes. Cacoila is one of the local staples, and it's basically pork left to soak in wine forever with a few secret ingredients (usually at least some some paprika)
OMG... I had that once at one of the local places (Captain's place, since I've already doxed myself regarding the Festa). It was incredible. Rabbit isn't common here, so it was a special. I've never seen it since :(
francesinha looks incredible. I've never seen it around here. I'm guessing it's a mainland dish? We have Sao Jorge cheese around here, but we only eat it straight. Also, nobody around here puts cheese with Cod, but baccalhau is often made with milk, so it's not a huge stretch to me.
Francesinha is a traditional dish from Porto. Mainland.
Regarding bacalhau, we only have about 1001 different recipes to prepare it. There are a lot of ingredients with which to cook it with.
Off the top of my head I can think of Bacalhau Espiritual and Bacalhau com Azeitonas, which are both baked.
Bacalhau Espiritual is prepared with scalded bacalhau, just enough to easily peel the fish and debone it, flaking it. Usually the water will have a clove or two of fresh garlic and a bay leaf. When the fish is out, take a few laddles of water into a bowl and throw some small peeled shrimps, of the frozen kind into it. Let it steep. On the side, prepare mashed potatoes; use one egg yolk per person, minus one, for more than two persons eating, for color and richness, and season it with nutmeg but don't fully season it with salt. You want a thick, creamy, mash. Cut two good sized onions in rings and lightly fry it in olive oil, until tender; add the shrimp and two or three table spoons of the water into the mix. Evaporate it. Throw two or three table spoons of white wine on it and evaporate it again. Add some finely chopped fresh parsley when you take it from the heat. In an oven safe glass or clay deep dish, pour a layer of mashed potatoes, smooth it, spread the cooked onions on top, with the shrimp, and cover with the flaked bacalhau. Pour a second layer of mashed potatoes on top. Sprinkle with breadcrumbs and grate some queijo da ilha on top. Take to the oven until the bread is golden brown and the cheese has melted.
The cheese will add the missing salt to the potato mash and bind the entire dish together with its sharpness.
Bacalhau com azeitonas uses potatoes cut into small cubes, parboiled, with the bacalhau prepared in the same fashion and no shrimp. The onions are slightly fried, until soft, along with some garlic, freshned up with some white wine at the end, allowed to boil a bit to take away the alcohol; you want liquid in the pan. Turn off the heat. Throw the potatoes in, mix well, add a good hand full of olives, combine. Cover the bottom of an oven safe dish with the flaked cod, cover with the potatoes. Sprinkle with a bit of finely grated cheese for extra salt and that sharpness. Take to the oven until the potatoes are fully cooked, golden, and the cheese melt. Sprinkle with fresh parsley before serving.
Not being a person of faith, I consider it borderline sinful to cook with vinho verde; too good for it. If you can, try and find some Alentejo, Douro or Dão. Three diferent regions, with very distinct wines. Just by playing around with the wine you use to cook you can get wildly diferent results.
Ever heard about chanfana? It's either old sheep or goat, left to marinate in red wine, onions, garlic, rosemary and bay leaves for days, then slowly cooked in the oven. It can take an entire day to properly cook it but the end result is a very tender meat. Goes well with potatoes. And some more wine.
The Port brands you mention are mostly export brands. Pacheca is quite pricey for our market, in fact. Like any other wine, Port is plentiful here, with a bottle starting at less than €5. And of good quality. Even supermarket brands are good. Port wine undergoes very strict production requirements to be classfied and labelled as such. Cheap, yes. Knockoff, no. I often buy a lesser known brand, Porto Intermares; its what I call an old style Port, unapolegetic, straight to the point, uncompromised. It will get you drunk and fast and warn you in advance but you just want to keep enjoying another little sip.
And you're giving me the chills with that description of the Madeira. Give it to me dry, please.
What people need to realize, especially those in peta, is that we cannot compare the suffering and mass killing animals to the same happening to humans. Speaking to someone who loves animals, they are a completely different life form that do not have human morals, values, intelligence, or emotion.
Which isn't to say that they don't have their own intelligence or emotion, it's just very different from what the human thought process is like.
Thus it would be absurd to put them on the same pedestal as homosapiens, evolutionarily speaking.
Life is not a Disney cartoon, that I understand that I will be down voted by vegans who don't understand this and will call me cruel.
That said I obviously support the Humane treatment of animals, but if you think I'm going to stop eating a creature that would eat me with far less hesitation if the roles were reversed, you are truly a fool.
We had chickens when I was a teen. They regularily hunted, killed and ate small rodents, lizards/snakes and sometimes even small birds like young sparrows whenever they could catch them - everything that fits into a chicken's beak is fair game. And it wasn't exactly a pretty sight. Imagine a single panicked field mouse being chased by sixteen feathered mini velociraptors, all trying to kill the mouse first, and then all fighting each other FOR the (hopefully) dead prey, as noone ever wanted to share their kill.
Funnily enough, the rooster was was a cuddly little idiot. (he got beaten up by the hens occasionally)
And just t add some proof for some of the points above, here's a video of a single hen killing a hawk (warning, it is kinda graphic). They don't even need great numbers to shred their wannabe predators - one really p*ssed off chicken and an opportunity to strike back, that's all it takes.
I didn't witness it but there are a few chicken farms around the area - the kind where chickens can freely roam around a huge shed - and I was told from an acquaintace that works at one they had been on the lookout for foxes, as they had already destroyed a few coops around the farm.
One morning they arrive at the barn to find a few dead chickens and two foxes partially skeletonized on the floor. It was a gruesome sight and the recording from the security cameras showed the foxes had been completely overrun by a mob of angry chickens that pecked, kicked and essentially killed by the thousand cuts method the poor wannabe predators.
The few chickens the foxes managed to kill were not enough to deter the mob but instead served to further spur it into a killer frenzy.
Because foxes are a protectes species, they had to call the authorities to give notice and have the cadavers picked up. Even the municipal vet was horrified at the state the chickens had left the foxes.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
here's a video of a single hen killing a hawk
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
i've heard chickens will just casually peck others to death if they have a wound too, like it's not even malice or removing competition, they just do it from some fucked up instinct.
I own chickens and have had a bullying problem in the past. In the winter they have a lot less space and they get bored and stressed easily. The hen that took the "rooster"/protector role started pecking the smallest and sweetest chicken and drew blood. I had to keep the small chicken isolated from the flock for a few weeks while its wounds healed and put special goggles on the bully chicken for a month- they prevent it from seeing in front of itself so it forgets what's there after a few seconds. Yeah they can be vicious, but it's definitely preventable if they're raised right instead of at a factory farm.
Won't pigs gladly eat a whole person
I'm pretty sure i saw somewhere that mexican cartels would use pigs as a method to dispose bodys pretty grim
Italian mafia devised the method first. Will only leave the teeth, for some reason.
Read once an article where it was stated these "special purpose" pigs were kept hungry for a few days before a disposal, for faster results, and could even be used as a torture method, as the animals would attack any human figure on sight, dead or alive.
Now imagine slowly lowering a live human being into a pig pen full of these quasi feral animals, feet first.
Jesus that sounds agonising
I once read about a turkey that had to be wraped in a tea towel to allow a wound to heal as the creature kept pecking at it and ripping out pieces of flesh that would glady eat.
That is pretty high on the extreme behavior list. And I think it was a pet turkey.
Jesus
You could save all of this cruelty by using egg substitutes and faux meats instead.
I could keep these little dinosaurs as pets, with no other objective or purpose besides admiring them because they are pretty to look at and that would not prevent any of the behaviors I listed.
What I'm about to say may evade you but cruelty is not an exclusive trait to human beings and chicken are a good example of it. They can be extremely cruel towards their own kind just for the sake of it. Not out of scarcity of food or living space. Just because they want to make another animal miserable.
They call it cock fighting for a reason, and no this ain't no dick joke
Hate animal fights. The only animal fights I'll condone involve two homo sapiens trying to pour each others brains through their hear onto the ground, by means of punches and/or kicks to the head, at the sound of a bell.
ugh, the consequences of internet grammarian fascism: people using normative language to make a quirky riff on a nonsense "rule"
They're intelligent and very instinctive birds from birth- that doesn't mean that they're vicious though. My chickens that I'm raising are all sweethearts. It's all a matter of their environment. If you overcrowd them in an indoor factory farm of course they're going to turn on each other, they're extremely stressed out. Chickens that are raised outdoors with lots of space and different kinds of food are a lot less likely to act up and turn on each other. You can even taste a noticeable difference in eggs from happy chickens.
Roosters on the other hand are usually fucking assholes.
I had about a dozen chickens in an outdoors coop, with plenty of space (about 32 cubic metres of tridimensional space) and often carried them around in a chicken tractor (birds of prey area where I live) for grazing and some individuals exihibited extreme behaviors.
Again, variations will occur from breed to breed and from individual to individual.
Some breeds are especially known for being tamer than others and more concerned with eggs and brood than others.
I'll partially agree on your statement that all roosters are assholes: we had one that enjoyed crowing when we were trying to talk anywhere in the bird's line of sight.
Well it may not have had much a family since hens cannibalise their chicks.
God fucked up and made them way too tasty
Chickens are basically tiny raptors. They even hunt mice when given the chance
It's actually for that reason why my family liked to joke about how the chicken were better at pest control than our cats especially every time we found a dead mouse in the coop or a cat getting bored of a mouse. Honestly the only reason my family keeped the cats we had was because people kept abandoning cats at my grandparents barn and we just find the poor little guys cute
That's why I'm a cannibal
Big brain
It's finger licking good
It’s feather licking good
They'll gladly eat chicken
https://youtu.be/QSuu0acj1LQ?si=SWLhJGgbstDkl8yn
https://youtu.be/x-Xkou8TCxA?si=BqEomgnqWXcFYb82
https://youtu.be/b37qU7lI8Xc?si=-s-HzVjMRGJMyp7T
https://youtu.be/hGuSyhg2HCk?si=GT99KgGvKp4ei4NW
https://youtu.be/vk6WQp70IQ0?si=uRbW7oYQ-pG2Us1_
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/QSuu0acj1LQ?si=SWLhJGgbstDkl8yn
https://piped.video/x-Xkou8TCxA?si=BqEomgnqWXcFYb82
https://piped.video/b37qU7lI8Xc?si=-s-HzVjMRGJMyp7T
https://piped.video/hGuSyhg2HCk?si=GT99KgGvKp4ei4NW
https://piped.video/vk6WQp70IQ0?si=uRbW7oYQ-pG2Us1
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Good bot
fuck peta
edit: oh no! the soyboys are attacking!
They should hate PETA too. No one has done more to hurt the cause of ending animal cruelty than PETA.
Their shelter euthanization rates are shocking too.
Thank you! There's surprisingly an awful number of supporters here, I don't know why...
smirk@sh.itjustworks @smirk:sh.itjustworks however you use mentions
"just case the textbook anti-PETA rhetoric comes into the thread…
This is why people hate PETA.
Yes, PETA does some crazy shit, but as with many things there are two sides to the story which is difficult to see when you get bombarded by anti-PETA stuff as is common on e.g. Reddit.
Anti-PETA efforts by the meat industry:
Sites like www.petakillsanimals.com are run by the Center for Organizational Research and Education, which is a lobbying platform for the fast food, meat, alcohol and tobacco industries. They also target the humane society, even John Oliver did a piece on them and their founder Richard Berman. That’s just one outlet for their misinformation-campains, they are also cited in lots of blogs and “news articles” as well, so it’s not always very obvious.
They are the driving power behind all the misinformation and PETA-hate that is spread around. PETA is actually doing a lot for animal rights, that’s why they are such a big target for smear campaigns:
PETA and their kill-shelters:
PETA kills animals because unfortunately there are no better places for them. Blame the puppy mills and irresponsible short term owners that give up their pets a few days or weeks after getting them because they had no idea what they got themselves into. Those people create more pets than there are places for them, so instead of having them become strays and further add to the problem, PETA put down those they can’t adopt out. Because PETA accepts all animals, even those that other shelters turn away in order to not sully their adoption numbers, PETA shelters end up with many more “hopeless” animals. See more here.
The case of the mistaken dog (and how PETA doesn’t steal and murder pets):
A farmer asked PETA to euthanise a pack of stray dogs that were aggressive and violent towards the farmer’s cows. Upon arrival, PETA found the pack of stray dogs, took them to the shelter and put them down, as a free service. Unfortunately it turned out, that one of the presumed stray dogs was a pet-chihuaha called Maya, that was not sitting on the porch, as often claimed, but running freely with the stray pack, without leash or collar or supervision. PETA fucked up, because they didn’t wait the 5 day grace period to give the owners time to look for and collect their pet. That’s why they had to pay a fine and apologized for it. http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/maya.html
The monkey selfie:
The monkey took the picture himself btw, the photographer just left the camera lying around. I am not saying the monkey should be copyright holder and it’s an open-shut case, but it does raise the question about the photographer having ownership over something that was voluntarily and independently created by an animal. What if a painter would leave his brushes lying around and an animal would create a painting? The artist actually sees it the same way and settled for a compromise with PETA followed by a joint statement. This was a landmark case in copyright law.
PETA equating milk to racism:
White supremacists actually use milk to demonstrate their superiority over “inferior” (their words, obviously) lactose intolerant ethnicities. That’s the reason behind their campaign on the issue.
Final thoughts (I promise):
PETA does a good job at raising issues and are one of the most successfull organisations to fight for animal rights. The granting of rights is the only real way to protect animals from unneccessary cruelty. Animal welfare will always be arbitrary, both in what species are worthy of protection, and the extent of protection they are worthy of. You cannot consider yourself an animal lover without recognizing the importance of that.
Sometimes PETA (intentionally?) overshoot, that happens when you try to move the border of current perceptions (i.e. animals are objects to be used for food, clothes, entertainment). I am not here to defend their tone or (lack of) tact, and there are a number of (sometimes downright stupid) PETA-campaigns I disagree with. I’m not trying to convice you to become their friend, but at least judge them for what they are doing, not for what they are said to do.
Most of the criticism of PETA you read on Reddit comes straight from the mouths of the Center for Organizational Research and Education (CORE), formerly known as the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). It’s basically a corporate propaganda organization with donors like Tyson Foods, Wendy’s, and Coca-Cola. They also run campaigns claiming obesity isn’t that major of a problem and that you can eat 10 times as much mercury from fish as experts recommend. The vast majority of the animals PETA euthanizes are suffering and are brought to PETA’s shelter by their owners specifically to be put out of their misery, but the CCF distorts that into “PETA is stealing people’s pets off the streets” and Reddit gobbles it up.
The media also knows that PETA is an easy target. Years ago I read an article in one of the British tabloids (the Sun or the Mirror) with a headline something like, “PETA blasts child’s bunny wedding!” But if you actually read the article, what happened is a kid dressed up some bunnies in wedding outfits, the “journalist” reached out to PETA and asked them to comment, and PETA said something like, “we don’t support dressing rabbits in costumes because it may be stressful for them.” And that was the end of the story, but that wouldn’t get clicks so they distorted the headline to make it sound like PETA was protesting or attacking the kid on their own accord.
For the record, I think there are perfectly legitimate criticisms of PETA, like the sexist imagery they use in some of their ad campaigns and their welfarist (as opposed to abolitionist) approach to advocacy. It just gets to me that so many redditors claim to be rational and free-thinking but then read literal corporate propaganda about PETA and swallow it whole without a second thought.
Info continued here if anyone is interested… https://sh.itjust.works/comment/2252698
Then… https://sh.itjust.works/comment/2252784
Then… https://sh.itjust.works/comment/2252805"
I don't do gish gallops, so I'm just going to address this:
That is bullshit. There are no kill shelters all over the country. There's one in my town. They didn't even euthanize after they were overwhelmed when we had a huge storm that destroyed structures. They just found people who would foster while they could rehome as much as they could. PETA doesn't do that.
Today I learned what a Gish Gallop is.
Nicely done.
Do more research on that claim.
here's one for starter
here's another one
this one's a bit dated, but still relevant
I'd just stop now. I just realized who you're commenting with, and the guy just had a long-ass pissy argument. When I slowed down to show him evidence, he kept changing topics and then ragequit when it didn't work.
Feel free to check my comment history (or his) for proof of this.
Can also check my comment history I'm just going to try and ignore dx1 although I don't know how effective that's going be considering he's on every god dam comment winging and moaning
Well, damn. I got to you too late. Or vice versa.
My wife brought home popeyes since my last comment to you. It's better than KFC 🐔 😁
I wish I could give popeyes ago sadly I'm across the pond sounds nice enjoy
Their spicy chicken is to die for, and like 90% less greasy than KFC. And I haven't done the math, but I think they're cheaper, too.
We fry our own chicken sometimes, and are pretty damn good cooks. And we prefer Popeyes. Which says something.
Sounds amazing m8 propa stuff if popeyes ever come to the uk I'll.make sure to give it ago some other amercian fast food chains are coming over such as taco Bell I remember seeing that in a few places
It's weird. I normally avoid chain on anything local-friendly. We have tons of chicken farms around (though, they mostly make eggs. A good friend of ours has meat chickens) Just something about Popeyes.
Also, fingers crossed for you gettin it. I'll trade you all the great Indian food you have there in the UK, though!
EDIT: I'd say "fish and chips", but I live on the ocean, so our seafood is comparable, if our cooking styles different)
Locals always best innit better quality stuff plus you get to support your local businesses
Yes, start with the Wikipedia one, that actually begins to examine it critically and points out that this campaign against PETA was spearheaded by an animal industry lobbying group...
I love it when people say this without even suggesting where to do this research. Let me guess- Google it. Because that's what I already did.
There's the approach I have to fact-check things, I don't know what other approach people have honestly. Look up fact-checking, debunking etc. on it. I know there are dozens to hundreds of pages that fact-check the parroted "PETA euthanizes too many dogs" claim. I honestly can't believe people are still bringing this one up, I don't know how it could possibly be on me to start digging up sources for you.
"Just look it up until a fringe source from an unknown media group ""debunks"" it, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary, then change your entire point of view from it" in other words: just google the opposite of what you said and go with that answer plz thx. Color me convinced! For the record: every fact check I looked up corroborated the obvious: PETA euthanizes pets at an obscene rate compared to even the most ruthless pounds in the us.
No, look up individual claims, look up the inverse of the claim, weigh the presented evidence against each other.
I.e., look up the mitigating factors here - was this an isolated case? Was it isolated to one state? Were animals from no-kill shelters dumped on the PETA-run shelter? What's the actual funding of this shelter compared to PETA's general operations? You know, ACTUAL THOROUGH ANALYSIS. Take the actual facts in question and put them properly in context instead of just swallowing literal animal ag industry propaganda coming out of groups like the Weston Price Foundation that have a vested interest in discrediting groups like PETA.
It's like every time people post something false, and you know it's false, you can't just let them know, they expect you to spend the next two hours of your life pulling up all the sources to show them, again and again and again and again and again and again. I've had this exact same conversation dozens of times, I'm sick of it. Can you not just learn how to research for yourself? Can you not post the discredited claim in the first place so we don't have to constantly play this game? Like, do the fact checking properly in the first place?
seems like you know how to avoid this, but you choose instead to get mad at people asking you to support your own claims.
Nah I'm vegan, fuck peta.
I'm a full-time meat eater, but I respect vegans who don't go around minding people's businesses, which is exactly what peta does.
All activism could be called "minding people's business". That's not really a fair criticism.
I think that's the problem. So many people are unaware of the difference between vegans, militant vegans, and peta-assholes. The second and third are the hardest to differentiate (and they are different)
When you can someone to start ranting about depopulation intervention and driving food species to extinction, then you found the PETA (also the PITA)
Based
not really. peta militancy helps no one. you arent going to make people eat less meat by being assholes and shame people for eating meat. Peta would have better results is they just advocated for people to eat less meat and be more conscious about where there food in general comes from as well as advocating for proper animal care and awareness. They are never going to stop people from eating meat and they seem to refuse to accept that.
Dude that's like saying that any form of activism that calls you out on shitty behaviour is in vain and shouldn't be practised. Not a good take
That's not what I'm saying at all.
I am saying in PETAs case, they would catch more flys with honey, rather than vinegar. I don't believe that making fun of people and making them feel bad about a system that isn't transparent is the way to go. Compassion and education in this case, would work best. imo. Small incremental steps - not wholesale instant change.
Leave the dirty work to the ALF. Which I also support. :)
Indeed, fuck peta
See my message above in response to flying squid. Same message response.
Don't you mean peter like Peter Griffin
Or maybe the dude from The Hunger Games? You know, the weird one with the bad name?
What do you mean they all have bad names
True, but IMO his is the worst one and he's supposed to be one of the normal ones but has a weirder vibe than most of the ones that are SUPPOSED to be all weird and futuristic.
Kinda like an emo Eminem with super strength but even weirder.
That too, but not as much as PeTA
What about petAh griffin
Yeah, fuck him too
You want to fuck petah Griffin? Oh no oh no oh no no no
They had hopes and dreams, a 10-year plan, they JUST bought a new car, their eldest daughter just had a child...
You're right, chickens and humans are basically identical
So sad its joeover litterally cryin rn
I have decided to lock the comments of this post. There's been too much toxic engagement.
Remember when we were gullible enough to think that PETA was a reputable organization.
A shame JREF is too quiet to change their public reception..
And you can rest easy knowing the chicken also likes to eat chicken (and chicks), just like you 😀 maybe not that last part
Lol
VeGaNs BAAAD amirite??? Updoots to the left my fellow narwhals *tips fedora*
Vegans are fine, PETA on the other hand is a shitty horrible organization that needs to burn in a fire.
Vegans are like religious people: most of them are totally fine. It's the preachy and overly defensive ones that suck.
Would you also consider it preachy when people criticize other cases of animal harm, like bullfighting or dog beating, or is it just the financing of factory farming that can't be criticized? If not, what's the difference? It's troublesome that people enforce a social stigma that you can't talk about what we do to farm animals without suffering social consequences.
Dude made a joke at preachy hypocrites who kill a shitload of dogs. Lighten up and save your strawmen for another time.
Who kills a shitload of dogs? I think you replied to the wrong comment.
Peta do. They operate a shitload of shelters, none of which are no-kill.
You wrote vegans, not peta. Most vegans have nothing to do with Peta.
In this case I was talking about the OP tweet exchange, in which a guy replies specifically to peta
And in my other comments I wasn't referring to vegans in general either, only the preachy and overdefensive ones. All the vegans I know IRL are good people who aren't constantly preachy and defensive.
I have never seen a vegan preach, here or on reddit. But i have seen hundreds of comments complaining about preachy vegans.
That's a streaming load of horse shit. You're evidently wearing ideological blinders rivaling those of religious fundamentalists.
And unfortunately the preachy ones are the only ones ever speaking up
Because they're using veganism as a substitute for having a personality. Never goes well.
If you tell anybody to stop doing something they like they're going to tell you to fuck off.
Yeah like when they told us we shouldn't use slaves anymore! Get off your high horse and stop telling us what to do!
comparing slavex to animals is what slavers do.
It's comparing slave owner rhetoric to non-vegan rhetoric. Just because the word vegan comes up doesn't mean animals are being compared.
it's comparing the institution of slavery with the institution of animal husbandry. it's comparing slaves to animals. it's fucking gross.
Carnists have such bad reading comprehension. Let's try another one and see if you get it
Yeah like when they told us we should give women rights! Get off your high horse and stop telling us what to do!
Yeah, it's the ones who talk about their thoughts that are the issue. Fucking jerks!
You can talk about your thoughts without being overly sensitive to criticism and ridicule. If you'd just chill the fuck out, I bet most other vegans would like you more too.
I am not accepting non-vegans' opinions on how to be a better vegan at this time. I will keep your comments on file.
I'm not offering you advice on how to be a vegan. I have no experience with being a vegan, so I wouldn't be qualified.
I do, however, have a lot of experience with not acting like an insufferable zealot with a persecution complex.
Yes, this is the typical reaction people have to vegans saying ANYTHING. It is not fun for us to live our entire lives prohibited from ever being able to say what WE THINK. You clearly do not have experience being a vegan, the social reception you get for taking a perfectly reasonable stance is just open hostility that you're not even allowed to defend yourself against. Which is on full display to anyone reading this thread.
This is a typical reaction to people like you not vegans vegetarians or other diets or food fads I don't shit on someone because they like pink sauce I shit on someone based on the character and personality
Fun fact: like most people, I'm pretty damn ridiculous at times. This means that I sometimes am the object of criticism and/or ridicule. You and I have that in common.
Here's the difference, though: I don't go out of my way to play the persecuted martyr.
Not eating meat is a perfectly reasonable personal decision. Not using any animal products of any kind sounds difficult to the point of constant exhaustion to me personally, but if that's what makes you happy, then that's good.
Just like the bad kind of religious person though, you're preaching that everyone who doesn't make the same choice is wrong and should be ashamed of themselves. While simultaneously acting like everyone's out to get you no matter what you say and do. That's not not reasonable.
I am not "going out of my way to play the persecuted martyr", I opened the Lemmy home page and "post trashing vegans" was post #3. I thought I left this shit behind when I left reddit, but now it's here too.
Not using animal products is not exhausting. I've done it for a decade and it's a remarkably easy change where 99% of the difficulty comes from the wider society being hostile to it.
It is an ethical position based on an actual reality of animal agriculture causing vast suffering that we have chosen to opt out of supporting. It is absolutely reasonable and selfless to advocate for the rights of others at a minor, negligible personal sacrifice. It is not a sign of a need to shame others, a need to be a martyr, or any other personality defect that you're going to project on vegans based on a stereotype despite knowing NOTHING about any of us as individuals. Nobody is trying to make you "feel ashamed", we are pointing out objective facts about how the animal ag industry causes harm to animals, and then people like you, like you're doing in this comment, right here, launch into this whole frigging diatribe about how vegans are shaming you and judging you and have a god complex and should just shut up and go back into their corners, because god forbid anyone should ever suggest that anything you're doing is less than perfectly ethical.
It's bullshit. I don't know what else to tell you. I've been living with this for years and it's absolute bullshit. Your position is wrong, it's not a statement about you as a person, it's a statement you should change your behavior. We are NOT at fault for showing the truth of the matter, that's just a reactionary and ignorant position that people use to try to rationalize what's convenient for them.
There's absolutely no way, based on everything you've already said, that reading that novel will be worth the time and effort. Go take a nap or something.
Not impressed.
True, I'm not.
How would you be a better vegan? Is there a competitive vegan league? Is there a cash prize that goes out to whoever can anthropomorphize animals the most in dogshit ads? Because if so, I think making an Islamic state beheading video but with chickens shouting "Death to KFC!" Would really sell veganism to the American audience. Or maybe we could settle for annoying shitposters on a meme community. Both have an equal chance of working (0%)
If petah made an Islamic beheading video with chickens shouting death to kfc I would immediately reconsider my dietary choices
Although I should reconsider my dietary choices already it's not like I make good ones
He replied to me acting like I was at fault for defending myself. IDK why you're going on this tangent of all the perceived slights vegans have done against you by speaking their minds. This is really fucked up, tbph, there's a completely unreasonable expectation that vegans are never to speak about the ethics of animal agriculture to anyone.
See that's interesting, when I tried to respectfully speak my mind on the vegan community in lemmy they just banned me after one comment, but exuse me for laughing at vegans whenever they leave their walled gardens and cry when nobody on the lemmy shitposting community wants to hear from the vegan community. You talk up and down about intellect and facts, but whenever I actually engage with vegans they have (90% of the time) just deleted or banned any criticism. That may or may not be you, but when you talk about vegans as a whole being this "oppressed community" unable to speak their mind, it's just funny to me. Because at least here, you can come and be ridiculed, but you won't be banned or censored.
I have a pretty good sense you posted something inflammatory and obnoxious in a vegan community, and frankly that doesn't excuse you being hostile to vegans elsewhere, even if it was something you wrote in good faith and got banned for. Pointing out "hypocrisy" on the part of a group of people with heterogenous beliefs does not make sense.
My favorite "my group is too big, thus you can't criticize it because there may be two whole people who aren't obnoxious" defense. Hate to break it to you, but I can. Until literally ONE Vegan behaves differently then any I have engaged with, I can and will continue labeling the community as obnoxious. You are also not helping their case.
You're literally lumping people into the stereotype that they're obnoxious and preachy based on them defending themselves against public accusations that they're obnoxious and preachy. That's an irrational, circular stance.
How is this defending yourself? your just constantly whining and bitching.
Fuck PETA
Yes.😎
Yes 🤠
Aaaaand the reddit crowd is here.
Implying the reddit crowd wasn't what Lemmy always was made of.
There's definitely been a shift. I didn't see these kinds of mindless "pop" posts until very recently.
Mindless "pop" posts?
Yeah, I don't know how else to describe it. Mindless kind of one-liner, "gotcha", poorly thought out positions, "lool omg sooo true" kind of posts.
That’s just memes. This is a shitpost /c
I draw the line when the position being taken is wrong.
What position its a shitpost about peta in a shitposting sub
The trivialization of animal wellbeing, of all opposition to animal agriculture.
"Eating animals is wrong" "Lol animals are tasty tho". Maybe you don't see the position being taken there, but it's there.
No, just the lemmy.world crowd. Which is essentially refugees from r/incels
Wow, so clever, nobody ever heard this one before!!! Thanks for bringing a whole new joke into the world!!!! You did it!!!!!!!
I actually haven't heard it before.
Don't worry, he's heard it before because he goes out of his way looking for it :)
You didn't need to be a dick, you know. You chose that for yourself.
I know