The author complaining about Threads defederation from spinster was a pretty big red flag. It's on every mainstream mastodon blocklist I've seen and it's obvious he knows why. Really leaned into that "how can they discriminate against women!?" dog whistle that TERFs love to use.
Edit: Oh, it turns out he's married to the person who runs that server. He's also worked with Gab, used some of their code for his soapbox, and seems to have been involved with Trump's truth social. No wonder his feelings are hurt.
Gleason is an infamous Fediverse villain.
deleted
'omg Meta's blocking nazi instances!'
Gleason is a transphobic idiot.
poast and spinster are blocked by everyone for hate speech.
Bunch of loser crybabies wondering why they've been excluded when everyone hates their stupid asses for being objectively awful humans.
Eat shit, TERFs. Go die in a ditch, Nazis.
I'm inclined to believe you on both points simply because I know lw blocks both of those platforms, but I don't know much about Gleason or spinster. It's billed as a "feminist platform", what's bad about it?
Transphobic hate speech. It's TERFtown.
Of fucking course it is. TERFs really poison the water with their bullshit.
Still the nostr bridge has never caused any problems
I'm not super familiar with them but mastodon.social is currently limiting them for spam.
Shouldn't let threads in anyways, fuck Meta
It should be left up to individual instances or user who to block. I personally think the integration is great
I disagree with your opinion of the integration with Threads, but I agree with you that it should be up to the individual instances and/or users.
Meta is a horrible company and I want nothing to do with them, but the whole point of the fediverse is that itโs decentralized. Anyone can spin up an instance if Lemmy or Mastodon and choose what other instances they federate with. If we were to somehow ban Metaโs instances, we create a pretty sketchy precedent.
For sure. Part of me would want to take a sort of principled stand and not fuck with anything meta. But if I can follow people on threads from Mastadon, that would be pretty nice, and I think that integration would lend Mastadon and federation in general some legitimacy to the normies (for lack of a better word).
Exactly, and that's what's so stupid about all the comments referencing "gullibles on the fediverse" or the downvoting of the commenter above.
I would love to be able to follow my favorite musical artists or my city's account from Mastadon. That will never happen until Twitter finally dies completely and those accounts move to Threads. And yeah, who knows, maybe they'll come to Mastadon instead, but like you said, that won't happen unless Mastadon has legitimacy and reach amongst normies and that won't happen without federation with a major corporate player.
I'm sorry to all the dramatic Fediverse zealots, but that's just the truth.
Tl;Dr: The most hateful and problematic instances that exist were wisely blocked by Meta, and the admins have found a workaround that lets them see Threads posts, but doesn't let Threads users see their posts.
They don't even have to defederate meta? What a lucky server!
Therefore, I am a proponent that Threads should not block any servers at all, unless the server itself is behaving badly from a technical standpoint. They should moderate every user on an individual level, regardless of which server they're on, using the extensive moderation tools at their disposal.
Haha, no. There are certainly good reasons to block entire servers when their userbase is horrible. A theoretical* instance that is based on hate speech doesn't need to have each individual member vetted when the server itself is a terrible concept. A server that actively promotes brigading would also be worthy of defederating without needing to spend time reviewing each individual account.
Where the line would be drawn will vary based on opinions, but the free speech absolutist idea that banning entire servers is always wrong is just plain stupid.
*Theoretical because I don't know of an example off the top of my head even though one or more most likely exists.
I love how the guy who is so shitty he got his instances preemptively blocked thinks Meta gives a single shit about his self-serving suggestion.
I think lemmygrad.ml is known for brigading. As for actual hate speech I think the instance this article is talking about is transphobic based on what others have said in this comment section.
Meta is blocking Nazis... oh wait, I get it.
This is a PR stunt to show the gullibles in the fediverse how much M(ark)eta has "changed." Sure, there might be a historical shift of right wing populism everywhere because of Meta's content regulatory practices but they've changed guys. C'mon.
Funny, there was a thread a few days back where people were raging about Meta being able to "harvest" the data they were posting in public on the Fediverse, and one of the ways people were insisting that Meta could be stopped was with "authorized fetch." That's exactly what Meta is apparently using in this case to block those servers, and which has been trivially worked around.
Public data is public, any attempt to make it conditionally public is just going down the DRM dead-end.
The problems I've seen mentioned regarding Threads have less to do with harvesting data and more to do with EEE
what about regulation problem
Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure I know what you mean (and I'd like to).
does fediverse get affected by regulations meant for companies like facebook
Also a valid question!
They might mean content moderation?
The problems have to do with people not liking Meta. I'm getting an increasingly strong feeling that the goalposts shall be placed wherever they are needed.
Which I suppose explains the tonal whiplash of going from people raging that not enough people were defederating from Meta to raging that Meta is defederating from the usual suspects in less time than it took to get through the Christmas leftovers.
Not that I particularly like Meta. All social media was a mistake, if you ask me. But still.
I thought it was because of the troubled history of these big corporations either destroying or exploiting every project, app, or platform they get their claws into.
But you're telling me that people just randomly dislike Meta for no reason, so I guess you must be right that they have no good reason to do so /s
::: spoiler spoiler
But seriously, how much are they paying you lot? I don't think anyone is actually buying your bullshit, and I could use the money...
:::
Oh, no they don't "randomly" dislike Meta. They have very good reasons to dislike Meta. I dislike Meta. I abandoned all my Meta accounts ages ago, never looked back. Like I said, all social media was a mistake.
What I'm saying is that the general tenor of the conversation is to actively dislike Meta, then look for ways to justify Meta federating being bad for everybody else. It's not to think about the consequences of Meta federating and then deciding if it's convenient or not.
I mean, my personal take is that Meta social media sucks, so I'd much rather access the people I know in Threads safely from Mastodon than from a Threads account, if we're gonna put the cards on the table. I don't need to like Meta for that. In fact, that's a stance entirely built on not wanting to have to engage with Meta's platform to reach the people in Meta's platform.
And hey, it'd been a while since people accused me of being a paid shill for anybody. That's some holiday nostalgia for you.
to dislike meta then look
reason for disliking facebook is same for defederating
do you learn from history
people i know
real life always exist
Indeed. People keep warning "it's just like XMPP!" And thus revealing that they had no idea what the situation with XMPP was like. Google didn't kill it, it died on its own.
What's actually happening is people start from the position "Meta is bad", then search around until they can find a thing to plug into that as a thing they can say to justify it. Well, maybe Meta is bad, but you're not going to prove it or adequately defend against them if that's your approach to figuring it out. You're just going to Chicken Little yourself.
XMPP works well and the community is actively developing server and clients. There aren't any big corporations funding it anymore that's all. Still the best instant messaging protocol in 2023.
Well that just furthers the basic point.
"Threads is blocking servers on the Fediverse"
tragedies abound
Methinks Gleason protests too much
His entire brand is just platforming Nazis and complaining about the consequences...
I find it interesting that Meta Platforms, Inc., a company known for harvesting user data, is blocking some servers from fetching its public posts. They decided to implement a feature Mastodon calls Authorized fetch.
This was always going to happen. They will block agressively, because they can't have their precious advertising money mixed with CSAM, nazis and other illegal content. And the fedi is full of that.
And the fedi is full of that.
[citation needed]
The fedi is, in fact, full of illegal content, but good admins share the blocklists so that nobody has to see it.
Tells you a lot about the Pleroma admins that insist on remaining completely unmoderated.
Umm Meta is basically only Nazis and Pedos at this point? Iโd say there is far less of it on the Fediverse than on Facebook.
There's far less because of server blocks. There are tons of gross servers that are just walled off from everyone else. Mastodon.social blocks a couple hundred servers.
Every now and then someone will write an article like, 'I love free speech so I thought I could run a Mastodon server without blocking anyone... boy was I ever wrong.' There's some truly vile shit out there.
A couple hundred servers is nothing compared to a couple hundred thousand facebook groups.
FB removed 73.3 million CSAM in the first 9 months of '22 alone, and that's only the stuff they bother to catch.
It's also a matter of scale. FB has 3 billion users and it's all centralized. They are able to police that. Their Trust and Safety team is large (which has its own problems, because they outsource that - but that's another story). The fedi is somewhere around 11M (according to fedidb.org).
The federated model doesn't really "remove" anything, it just segregates the network to "moderated, good instances" and "others".
I don't think most fedi admins are actually following the law by reporting CSAM to the police (because that kind of thing requires a lot resources), they just remove it from their servers and defederate. Bottom line is that the protocols and tools built to combat CSAM don't work too well in the context of federated networks - we need new tools and new reporting protocols.
Instagram has become a hub for young neo-Nazis to recruit young people to far-right groups, a report from an anti-racism group has warned.
Nick Lowles, Hope Not Hateโs chief executive, said: โThough we continue to warn about niche platforms like Telegram, a fertile recruitment ground for young neo-Nazis has been Instagram โ its inadequate moderation and worrying algorithm recommendations are child protection issues that demand urgent action from the platform.โ
Meta is Meta, I expect them to act like Meta and they do not disappoint.
Yes, of course it has Neo-Nazis, because it has hundreds of millions of people and essentially every niche community has representation there. The doesn't mean it's remotely accurate to say that Instagram is "only Nazis and pedos".
The most followed user is Kim Kardashian, if I remember right, and she's targeting the most normie women possible. Nazis and pedos aren't exactly good for advertising.
This isn't to say that Instagram doesn't have moderation issues, but that isn't contradictory to the fact that Instagram is not solely composed of those kinds of users.
Oh get off it, as if you've never seen hyperbole before in your life.
It's either hyperbole or you can double down.
Instead you look like a clown.
Meta has well over two billion users. The vast majority of them are ordinary people who should be welcomed onto the fediverse. Yes, any network that big has problematic people... but they can be dealt with.
Fuck no.
Meta should not be allowed anywhere near the Fediverse.
If those users want to come here, come through a non-corpo space.
I would love to have them, but Meta being the largest fediverse instance by far means it'd give them too much power over the fediverse.
I'm not even sure that's true of Xhitter, and Faceb**k at least has a mod team
The author complaining about Threads defederation from spinster was a pretty big red flag. It's on every mainstream mastodon blocklist I've seen and it's obvious he knows why. Really leaned into that "how can they discriminate against women!?" dog whistle that TERFs love to use.
Edit: Oh, it turns out he's married to the person who runs that server. He's also worked with Gab, used some of their code for his soapbox, and seems to have been involved with Trump's truth social. No wonder his feelings are hurt.
Gleason is an infamous Fediverse villain.
deleted
'omg Meta's blocking nazi instances!'
Bunch of loser crybabies wondering why they've been excluded when everyone hates their stupid asses for being objectively awful humans.
Eat shit, TERFs. Go die in a ditch, Nazis.
I'm inclined to believe you on both points simply because I know lw blocks both of those platforms, but I don't know much about Gleason or spinster. It's billed as a "feminist platform", what's bad about it?
Transphobic hate speech. It's TERFtown.
Of fucking course it is. TERFs really poison the water with their bullshit.
Still the nostr bridge has never caused any problems
I'm not super familiar with them but mastodon.social is currently limiting them for spam.
Shouldn't let threads in anyways, fuck Meta
It should be left up to individual instances or user who to block. I personally think the integration is great
I disagree with your opinion of the integration with Threads, but I agree with you that it should be up to the individual instances and/or users.
Meta is a horrible company and I want nothing to do with them, but the whole point of the fediverse is that itโs decentralized. Anyone can spin up an instance if Lemmy or Mastodon and choose what other instances they federate with. If we were to somehow ban Metaโs instances, we create a pretty sketchy precedent.
For sure. Part of me would want to take a sort of principled stand and not fuck with anything meta. But if I can follow people on threads from Mastadon, that would be pretty nice, and I think that integration would lend Mastadon and federation in general some legitimacy to the normies (for lack of a better word).
Exactly, and that's what's so stupid about all the comments referencing "gullibles on the fediverse" or the downvoting of the commenter above.
I would love to be able to follow my favorite musical artists or my city's account from Mastadon. That will never happen until Twitter finally dies completely and those accounts move to Threads. And yeah, who knows, maybe they'll come to Mastadon instead, but like you said, that won't happen unless Mastadon has legitimacy and reach amongst normies and that won't happen without federation with a major corporate player.
I'm sorry to all the dramatic Fediverse zealots, but that's just the truth.
Tl;Dr: The most hateful and problematic instances that exist were wisely blocked by Meta, and the admins have found a workaround that lets them see Threads posts, but doesn't let Threads users see their posts.
They don't even have to defederate meta? What a lucky server!
Haha, no. There are certainly good reasons to block entire servers when their userbase is horrible. A theoretical* instance that is based on hate speech doesn't need to have each individual member vetted when the server itself is a terrible concept. A server that actively promotes brigading would also be worthy of defederating without needing to spend time reviewing each individual account.
Where the line would be drawn will vary based on opinions, but the free speech absolutist idea that banning entire servers is always wrong is just plain stupid.
*Theoretical because I don't know of an example off the top of my head even though one or more most likely exists.
I love how the guy who is so shitty he got his instances preemptively blocked thinks Meta gives a single shit about his self-serving suggestion.
I think lemmygrad.ml is known for brigading. As for actual hate speech I think the instance this article is talking about is transphobic based on what others have said in this comment section.
Meta is blocking Nazis... oh wait, I get it. This is a PR stunt to show the gullibles in the fediverse how much M(ark)eta has "changed." Sure, there might be a historical shift of right wing populism everywhere because of Meta's content regulatory practices but they've changed guys. C'mon.
Funny, there was a thread a few days back where people were raging about Meta being able to "harvest" the data they were posting in public on the Fediverse, and one of the ways people were insisting that Meta could be stopped was with "authorized fetch." That's exactly what Meta is apparently using in this case to block those servers, and which has been trivially worked around.
Public data is public, any attempt to make it conditionally public is just going down the DRM dead-end.
The problems I've seen mentioned regarding Threads have less to do with harvesting data and more to do with EEE
what about regulation problem
Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure I know what you mean (and I'd like to).
does fediverse get affected by regulations meant for companies like facebook
Also a valid question!
They might mean content moderation?
The problems have to do with people not liking Meta. I'm getting an increasingly strong feeling that the goalposts shall be placed wherever they are needed.
Which I suppose explains the tonal whiplash of going from people raging that not enough people were defederating from Meta to raging that Meta is defederating from the usual suspects in less time than it took to get through the Christmas leftovers.
Not that I particularly like Meta. All social media was a mistake, if you ask me. But still.
I thought it was because of the troubled history of these big corporations either destroying or exploiting every project, app, or platform they get their claws into.
But you're telling me that people just randomly dislike Meta for no reason, so I guess you must be right that they have no good reason to do so /s
::: spoiler spoiler But seriously, how much are they paying you lot? I don't think anyone is actually buying your bullshit, and I could use the money... :::
Oh, no they don't "randomly" dislike Meta. They have very good reasons to dislike Meta. I dislike Meta. I abandoned all my Meta accounts ages ago, never looked back. Like I said, all social media was a mistake.
What I'm saying is that the general tenor of the conversation is to actively dislike Meta, then look for ways to justify Meta federating being bad for everybody else. It's not to think about the consequences of Meta federating and then deciding if it's convenient or not.
I mean, my personal take is that Meta social media sucks, so I'd much rather access the people I know in Threads safely from Mastodon than from a Threads account, if we're gonna put the cards on the table. I don't need to like Meta for that. In fact, that's a stance entirely built on not wanting to have to engage with Meta's platform to reach the people in Meta's platform.
And hey, it'd been a while since people accused me of being a paid shill for anybody. That's some holiday nostalgia for you.
reason for disliking facebook is same for defederating
do you learn from history
real life always exist
Indeed. People keep warning "it's just like XMPP!" And thus revealing that they had no idea what the situation with XMPP was like. Google didn't kill it, it died on its own.
What's actually happening is people start from the position "Meta is bad", then search around until they can find a thing to plug into that as a thing they can say to justify it. Well, maybe Meta is bad, but you're not going to prove it or adequately defend against them if that's your approach to figuring it out. You're just going to Chicken Little yourself.
XMPP works well and the community is actively developing server and clients. There aren't any big corporations funding it anymore that's all. Still the best instant messaging protocol in 2023.
Well that just furthers the basic point.
"Threads is blocking servers on the Fediverse"
tragedies abound
Methinks Gleason protests too much
His entire brand is just platforming Nazis and complaining about the consequences...
This was always going to happen. They will block agressively, because they can't have their precious advertising money mixed with CSAM, nazis and other illegal content. And the fedi is full of that.
[citation needed]
The fedi is, in fact, full of illegal content, but good admins share the blocklists so that nobody has to see it.
Tells you a lot about the Pleroma admins that insist on remaining completely unmoderated.
This is a good start: https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/io/news/addressing-child-exploitation-federated-social-media
Umm Meta is basically only Nazis and Pedos at this point? Iโd say there is far less of it on the Fediverse than on Facebook.
There's far less because of server blocks. There are tons of gross servers that are just walled off from everyone else. Mastodon.social blocks a couple hundred servers.
Every now and then someone will write an article like, 'I love free speech so I thought I could run a Mastodon server without blocking anyone... boy was I ever wrong.' There's some truly vile shit out there.
A couple hundred servers is nothing compared to a couple hundred thousand facebook groups.
FB removed 73.3 million CSAM in the first 9 months of '22 alone, and that's only the stuff they bother to catch.
It's also a matter of scale. FB has 3 billion users and it's all centralized. They are able to police that. Their Trust and Safety team is large (which has its own problems, because they outsource that - but that's another story). The fedi is somewhere around 11M (according to fedidb.org).
The federated model doesn't really "remove" anything, it just segregates the network to "moderated, good instances" and "others".
I don't think most fedi admins are actually following the law by reporting CSAM to the police (because that kind of thing requires a lot resources), they just remove it from their servers and defederate. Bottom line is that the protocols and tools built to combat CSAM don't work too well in the context of federated networks - we need new tools and new reporting protocols.
Reading the Stanford Internet Observatory report on fedi CSAM gives a pretty good picture of the current situation, it is fairly fresh:
https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/io/news/addressing-child-exploitation-federated-social-media
73 million? Holy shit people are disgusting man
Have you gone on Instagram ever?
It's normies and wine moms.
Nope.
But a quick google search shows:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/22/neo-nazi-groups-use-instagram-to-recruit-young-people-warns-hope-not-hate
Meta is Meta, I expect them to act like Meta and they do not disappoint.
Yes, of course it has Neo-Nazis, because it has hundreds of millions of people and essentially every niche community has representation there. The doesn't mean it's remotely accurate to say that Instagram is "only Nazis and pedos".
The most followed user is Kim Kardashian, if I remember right, and she's targeting the most normie women possible. Nazis and pedos aren't exactly good for advertising.
This isn't to say that Instagram doesn't have moderation issues, but that isn't contradictory to the fact that Instagram is not solely composed of those kinds of users.
Oh get off it, as if you've never seen hyperbole before in your life.
It's either hyperbole or you can double down.
Instead you look like a clown.
Meta has well over two billion users. The vast majority of them are ordinary people who should be welcomed onto the fediverse. Yes, any network that big has problematic people... but they can be dealt with.
Fuck no.
Meta should not be allowed anywhere near the Fediverse.
If those users want to come here, come through a non-corpo space.
I would love to have them, but Meta being the largest fediverse instance by far means it'd give them too much power over the fediverse.
I'm not even sure that's true of Xhitter, and Faceb**k at least has a mod team