No charges for New Mexico officers who knocked on wrong door before fatal shooting
Authorities in New Mexico will not seek charges against three police officers involved in a fatal shooting after arriving at the wrong house last year.
Officers in the town of Farmington fired dozens of shots and killed Robert Dotson, 52, because he appeared at the door of his home holding a gun.
At the time, the officers were responding to a domestic violence call from a house across the street.
The Dotson family filed a lawsuit against the department last year.
According to a complaint filed by the family in court, police arrived at the Dotson residence late on 5 April, 2023 and "parked down the street and did not have their lights on".
When Mr Dotson opened his front door holding a weapon, police immediately opened fire, striking him 12 times. Another 19 shots were fired at his wife Kimberly, who was unharmed during the incident. Police later said she opened fire on officers with a pistol.
disarm the police. they do not need to be armed their entire shifts. if they approached this house without lethal weapons, how many people would be dead right now?
zero. the answer is zero.
do not let cowards have lethal armament
Police should have access to weapons, but they should be locked in the car and require remote unlock when they actually need them.
Or maybe leave them to trained professionals they can call for support.
That might work in cities with a reasonable response time.
Or maybe just fucking train them. 6 months is supposed to be enough? You need more than that to cut someone's fucking hair.
The problem is they attend conferences that brainwash them into thinking that every person they interact with is seconds away from pulling a machine gun out of their pocket and mowing them all down. To make things worse, their word is also treated as gospel by a large portion of the population so generic terms like "I feared for my safety" (along with qualified immunity) is all they need to avoid any sort of accountability.
the police training in the united states is a complete disaster.
theres no standardization, no requirement for any kind of conformity. you have random contractors and "state schools" teaching officers that every interaction with anyone, ever is a threat to their life. seriously.
they actively reject 'students' who question questionable practices. they reject people who test 'too intelligent'.
the entire system is designed to attract, and keep the worst kind of people.
It's well known in most countries that only hunters and cowards own guns, so are you saying we should disarm everyone bar the hunters?
i believe the police in their normal day to day operation do not need to be lethally armed.
they turn simple transactions into life threatening events with almost no benefit to the public.
this is a perfect example. if the police only had, say tasers and this guy comes walkin out with a gun. is he going to run? not possible. do you really think he would just start shooting a block full of police officers? no of course not.
but the cowardice is part of police training. shoot first, question later and be sure to empty the fucking clip.
I would love to see all the people asking to disarm police officers apply for the job once we do. But its so easy to make these claims from the safety of your house. Who cares about actual realistic solutions?
ha, the old 'youll be sorry, you just wait!' . yeah i heard this one a bit from several officers, but in my anecdotal experience most actually didnt care about their sidearm a that much. its a reality that most officers never use the gun in the line of duty, which adds to my point.
form the inside, its amazing that the exact type of officers you would expect, react to this thought experiment the worst. IE, the best cops dont care about carrying lethal weapons their entire shift. the shittiest cops i worked with freaked the fuck out if you even kind of mention taking away their 'power'. all anecdotal from one small burg, but damn if it wasnt fucking accurate.
shitty cops seem to lust firearms
Well, I am not from the US, so maybe my perception is wrong. Or maybe you have a selection bias for some reason, e.g. living in a safe are.
Either way, if enough cops are ok with it then go ahead, and have them not carry firearms. No issue then.
youre not wrong in that there are parts of the united states that are mini war zones, and disarming the police wouldnt make sense. but those are outliers. its a huuge country and youre talkin <1% of officers. lets make exemptions where needed.
there is no "united states police", and so we have 50 tiny countries each with their own versions (city,county,state) of different kinds of police forces, and barely any of it is coordinated or standardized.
Sounds good then
You idiots act like it isn't the norm in nearly every other modern nation for cops not to have firearms at all times.
Never once, in my life, has the presence of a cop's gun made me feel more safe. Literally the opposite. And I'm white.
Suprise, not all nations are the same. But hey, if the cops agree or you can find replacement cops for those that don't, then go for it.
It is just funy to me that people have so many ideas how cops could do their jobs better, and hate on them but refuse to actually become cops and put it in practice.
The thin blue line would make sure I would die quickly, well before I could push for change.
Cause that's how cops roll.
How does that work? I thought being a cop was not so dangerous that they needed a gun at all times...
UK police only carry a baton and pepper spray my dude. Last I checked, they weren't hurting for recruitment.
UK has almost no privately owned guns. US has more guns than people and its gun laws are nuts.
UK leading by example then. But riddle me this, how often is a firearm needed for an officer doing their everyday duties? Traffic stops, patrols, responding to calls. How often is it explicitly needed to be actively carrying a loaded firearm to a inherently non violent situation before having assessed it? I honestly have no idea. Is the expectation in the US that you'll just get straight up murdered for doing your job? Is that how you guys live?
That's the gist of what they're taught, yeah. It shouldn't take much digging to find "training" videos that are essentially: cop walks up to man in parking lot, man pulls a knife and lunges at cop instantly. The moral? Everyone is ready to kill you.
How often do you need your seatbelt? Should you still wear it anyway? And there are situations when wearing a seatbelt can kill you where you would survive without it.
The idea is the same with cops. A properly trained cop carying a weapon all the time would be safer overall by being able to react to violent situations while not posing a threat in non-violent ones. The issue is how incredibly undertrained most US cops are.
And yes, if they are not sufficiently trained, they should not carry a gun period. Not in their car, not anywhere.
Do you think all countries arm all of their regular police officers with firearms?
Most countries don't have more guns than people in them.
Which is another argument in favor of gun control.
Obviously. I am pro gun relatively to where I live but the US gun laws are crazy. You should do something about that.
Historically speaking, police are both cowards and hunters
If the police are allowed to kill you simply for possessing a gun, you do not have a right to bare arms. They have violated your civil rights.
Those arenβt the type of guns weβre talking aboutβ¦
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Hah, I'll leave it.
Did the wrong thing to arrive on a good thing then.
Killing someone for owning a gun is a good thing? Jesus fucking Christ.
You don't get killed for "simply possessing a gun", you get killed for brandishing one in front of police.
Having a gun on your person while opening the door is not brandishing. Also, there are countless other examples of people getting shot by the police simply for possessing a weapon.
There is also zero reason to believe that this man was aware the people at his house were police.
Yes it is.
I'm referring to the incident in the OP.
I mean there's 1 reason: they were police. If the man failed to investigate before opening the door while brandishing a firearm, that's on him.
But as I've already stated, it doesn't matter if he knew or not, really.
You should look up the definition of brandishing because you are incorrect.
Who the fuck "investigates" before opening their door? Basically nobody aside from looking out a peephole.
You should look up the definition of brandishing because you are incorrect.
Any sensible person, but especially people who open doors WITH FUCKING GUNS IN THEIR FUCKING HANDS.
Having a gun in your hand is not brandishing. You have to wave or aim it in a threatening manner for it to be brandishing.
You do not have to wave or aim it in a threatening manner for it to be brandishing. It doesn't even have to be in your hand. Stop looking up legal definitions on Merriam Webster.
'in order to intimidate that person'
This case does not include that.
Oh my God, is there no end to the mental gymnastics? What do you think someone's intention is when they open the door with a gun in their hand? Were they using it as a fucking door handle?
Seriously dude, it's okay to be wrong sometimes. Just give it up.
That's funny since it's what I think of you and your argument.
It's okay to disagree sometimes, dude. Figure it out and let it go.
pizza delivery guys fuck this up far less and show a higher degree of care and professionalism, while not having guns and power to hide behind
It's fucked up the pizza delivery people are more professional than cops but here we are. It's sadly a more dangerous job than being a police officer, too. At least, on average.
Police are so inept that they had to create special protections to shield them from being held accountable for their actions legally.
No one created those though. The supreme court just made them up. It's the same thing you've been seeing in these recent discounted trans lawsuits. Despite the constitution explicitly being amended to allow it, the supreme court literally has said "oh, you cant sue states for civil rights violations. You've just got no recourse there. Good luck!"
They apparently were supposed to be responding the domestic dispute but not only did they shoot him 12 fucking times they fired 19 bullets at the supposed victim?
Why the fuck are they not being charged again?
They just straight up murder people now with consequences. And like other's have said if they can shoot you for having a gun then we have no right to bare arms and they violent the second amendment.
They took 19 shots at the wife and didn't hit her? Not only are these people disgusting but they can't even do this part of the job fucking right.
I can do you better. There was a high profile police, er, "shooting" in my town back in the early 2000's that made front page in the papers because four cops fired 204 shots at some guys -- for those keeping score at home, that's four Barney Fifes with three complete magazines, two reloads each out of their issued Glock 17's -- and hit no one.
So they succeeded in doing nothing but putting holes in a bunch of people's cars, a couple of rowhouses, lampposts, mailboxes, etc., and failed to even so much as wing any of the multiple alleged perps. I mean, they didn't manage to nail any innocent bystanders or people sleeping in their beds or anything for once, either. Ludicrous levels of wanton and irresponsible property damage and potential injury or death dealt to anyone within a radius of who knows how many blocks, not a single care given, for no benefit whatsoever. You know, just business as usual.
To this day I wonder if there actually were any perps, or if some cops just decided they wanted to shoot up a poor inner city neighborhood for yuks and get away with it.
Something similar happened in NYC except the cops hit a ton of bystanders and then charged the suspect for it as if he'd done it himself.
We have stormtroopers, but at least stormtroopers look cool or something?
There's a fan theory that they were ordered to miss, at least to miss Luke and Leia.
I'd say it's more than a theory. We're told that "only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise" and Vader put a tracking device on the Falcon (seizing the moment when his interrogation wasn't getting results) so it was imperative that the intruders get away. That's just reading between the lines.
Later Star Wars media missed the memo and had them suck. Probably because blaster bolts look and sound cool and you get to have more of them if they miss a lot.
They fly now??
Ugh, sorry
She fired at them. Those were retreating shots.
A more reasonable use for a firearm has never been stated. Random people roll up to your house and murder your husband. Clearest case of self defense there has ever been.
I did not realize that I will be reading a post of a person who is upset that additional innocent person was not shot dead.
Weird takeaway but okay? Jesus ever living fuck this place is turning into reddit fast. I'm very clearly saying it's pathetic that they are failures at even being killers as well. They can't even be the pieces of shit they want to be right. Not that I'm disappointed that they didn't manage to kill her.
And you know that. But you just desperately wanted a moral high ground. So I guess clap yourself on the back my man.
Hey, chill. All I wanted is to joke.
No you didn't. That was clearly serious.
Now you are reading my brain.
No I'm reading your words and the clear intent behind them. But I can show that I'm reading your brain. As I said you still have the stench of Reddit on you and that's your sudden change. It has nothing to do with what I've said it has to do with you seeing the downvotes and that triggered your 'must change opinio instantly' response.
And even before that I'm just fucking done with people like you. Instigators. You saw my comment, clearly knew what it was really about, but had to jump in and try to turn it into something else, turn me into the bad guy, just so you could be the bright shiny example of humanity.
When, instead, you're nothing but a negative presence when you behave like this.
Damn now that's how you do a callout
I am on kbin, and as of now I see zero downvotes for my and your posts. And yes, I found hilarious that you were upset about this situation. Sorry that you do not understand my humor. And donβt go ballistic, sometimes you just have to trust people when they tell you about their intentions.
Dude just fuck off with your moral high ground bullshit.
Gotdammit I love you. Your responses to that douche warm my heart.
Righteous anger fills my veins! Also Twinkies.
I was planning on eating you, but you just talked yourself out of it. I'm on a strict righteous anger diet.
It is unfortunate that you are so close minded and refuse to hear me. I did not discuss any morals. It was all in your mind that I did.
We both know what you were doing, and we both know what you're doing with that comment. Still desperately trying to prove how enlightened you are. How better are you are.
You're an instigator piece of shit and on top of that you're an absolute fucking pussy because you back down the split second somebody calls you on your shit.
Fucking pathetic.
You ability read my mind continue to amaze me. Do you really believe that I did not understand that you were upset not because women was not shot but because of police incompetence? Why would you even assume that? How anyone without brain damage would interpret your post like that???
duuuuuuuuuuuuuude get another drug besides huffing your own farts
He wasn't though. You misread or misrepresented his response my man
19 shots fired at a person without hitting means 19 chances to hit something, or someone, else.
Bullets don't just vanish when they miss the target.
These cops have such shit aim, and such shit investigative talent, that they fail at every single metric. They should be in prison, but failing that, they should not be cops.
Republicans told me it was Legal to have a Gun in your house and also that we need to Defund Schools to give money to Cops?
I've been woken up in the middle of the night by angry police who showed up at the wrong house and it's fucking terrifying, but it's a really bad idea to ever answer your door with a gun in your hand. If you feel like you need a gun to open your door you shouldn't be opening the door.
Not opening the door wouldn't save you. There was a no-knock warrant where a man was woken up when the police had kicked in his door and shined a light in his face. He had a gun next to his bed (I can't remember if he was even holding it). He had been awake something like less than 8 seconds before the cops shot him because they saw the gun.
Maybe not but your chances are a whole lot better...
Ah I think I saw the body cam footage on that one, quite sobering to see.
Sleeping next to a gun sounds like a bad idea too. Unless you're being hunted by assassins or something along those lines. Not that it's that guys fault, because reaching for a weapon when you are startled awake is a completely natural response, but just from a safety perspective that feels like a really terrible place to keep a gun.
Just depends on the setting.
Small kids at home? Yeah that's dumb AF.
Living alone? Who cares where it is, but concealing/securing it would help prevent it from being stolen if your house is broken into.
In my experience, cops don't always identify themselves during the knock. They just slam on your door extremely aggressively, and may respond that they're cops if you yell through the door. Nor is there reason to believe them even if they do identify themselves verbally.
I hate guns, and don't own one. But I would not blame someone for bringing a gun with them after one of those knocks in the middle of the night. Who knows who it could be.
For sure, when they knocked on my door at 4am I was sound asleep and had no idea what was going on. I don't think they ever identified themselves as police, they just kept pounding aggressively on the door. My first instinct was full fight mode, it was a very confusing and terrifying way to wake up. I can definitely see arming yourself in that situation until you figured out who the fuck is pounding on the door in the middle of the night. It's the opening the door while armed part specifically that's a bad idea, that's inherently going to escalate any situation and you don't know who is at your door or whether they are actually a threat so it's not appropriate to be brandishing a gun. Either don't open the door until you know who it is or keep the gun out of sight until you know it's actually needed.
Immediately call 911 and don't answer the door I guess. Get in an interior room and lay down on the floor in your underwear.
I won't open the door anyway. The cops have no legitimate reason to be banging on my door, ever, so they can go pack sand. The only two possible reasons for doing so are a wrong address or deliberate fuckery on their part. So I'd rather let them come to me. Preferably to the 3rd story bedroom, the one up the rickety narrow stairs. (Yay for 1920's redneck architecture. For once.)
Despite all the yelling and threats and bluster they'll inevitably do, if they ain't got a warrant you are not obligated to let them in or even acknowledge their presence. Fuck 'em.
Cops in the States do cops in the states things. I'm so tired.
Yeah but, yeah but see, see though the thing is though, but see he was white this time. So. Y'know. Might make the news. Oh, wait it did.
Member that time they found all those unmarked graves of people reported missing behind the Jackson Mississippi police station? Member that? Got less coverage than the Star Wars Holiday Special.
LOL yes because minorities shot by the cops never make the news. π€¦ββοΈ
Because not long ago they didn't.
"Not long ago"? Like 40 years ago?
Rodney King ring a bell?
Did you read about every one of the 229 Black people (ranging in age from 3 months to 88 yrs old) killed by police in the year after George Floyd's murder? Or every one of the 27% of police killings that involved Black people in 2021? Or every one of the 2164 Black people killed by the police since 2015?
Yeah, I didn't think so.
Source
Source
Source
Of course I didn't read about all of them. But I did read about several of them, on a regular basis.
How many white people did you read about being murdered by cops? Yeah, didn't think so.
White people being killed by police has always been noted. Indigenous, Black and Brown people not so much.
Oh no, did all your fancy statistics dry up?
must have been that White privilege I keep hearing about
If you're gonna open a door with a gun in your hand while either not knowing who is on the other side, or knowing that it's cops, you get no sympathy from me. That's incredibly irresponsible.
In a country full of completely unjustified police shootings, this just takes away from real tragedies.