Many believe the founders wanted a Christian America. Some want the government to declare one now
apnews.com
The idea of a Christian America means different things to different people. Pollsters have found a wide circle of Americans who hold general God-and-country sentiments.
But within that is a smaller, hardcore group who also check other boxes in surveys — such as that the U.S. Constitution was inspired by God and that the federal government should declare the U.S. a Christian nation, advocate Christian values or stop enforcing the separation of church and state.
For those embracing that package of beliefs, it’s more likely they’ll have unfavorable views toward immigrants, dismiss or downplay the impact of anti-Black discrimination and believe Trump was a good or great president, according to a 2021 Pew Research Center survey.
They LITERALLY WROTE DOWN that they did not want this. WTAF?
Bold of you to expect any of these idiots to have paid attention in grade school history classes.
What is this history you speak of?
Also "We the people...." It's a rejection of God.
I always heard the argument that the founders did not want a Christian based nation because they saw the chaos in the UK with Catholics fighting Protestants, vice versa and every time a monarch ascended from the opposite side it was the axe for you all of a sudden.
They were probably mostly Christian though, at least outwardly, and so wrote the constitution with Christianity informs ideals and morals.
That said, separation of church and state is a good thing. Anyone arguing they actually wanted a Christian nation is intentionally ignorant (or a fucking idiot).
So idk if "we the people" is intentionally rejecting God as much as it's rejecting the king.
Most of them, at least the ones most responsible for drafting the Constitution, were deists, as was common for intellectuals during the Enlightenment. Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Monroe were all deists. They generally accepted that Jesus existed and he brought great wisdom of the world but they also questioned his divinity. And even the professed Christians, like Adams, were heavily influenced by progressive Unitarian principles, which did not believe in religious supremacy over government.
Jefferson was so unconvinced of Christ's divinity that he edited the New Testament down to what he considered to be the wisdom and took out all of the supernatural elements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
This (Jefferson Bible) seems like an important fact for me not to have known until now. Thanks!
But, don’t forget your side of Jesus with your politics. We are, after all, a “Christian nation.” Also, I hate the world.
I knew a lot of this but this is the first I've heard of the Jefferson Bible! Thanks for sharing!
Here's some ammo for you- https://liberalamerica.org/2014/10/27/88-founding-father-quotes-that-will-enrage-the-religious-right/
TIL!
I mean just look at early politics. There were many factions that went to other parts of the colonies to establish their own religious center. But others wanted to keep it separate. This is well documented in so many colonies.
Likely they were also considering the 30 years war, especially with a few of the colonies having explicitly been founded as religious settlements, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Mass especially.
They clearly can't read the Bible, what makes you think they can read anything else?
I'm not defending the argument below. It is patently stupid.
I have heard people make the argument that the founders didn't expect non-christian religions to become prominent in the US. That they thought they were only protecting the right of people to practice any kind of christianity they want to practice.
They think that the founders didn't have enough forethought to realize that people of other faiths might migrate to the US or even the presence to realize that there were already non-christian faiths being practiced in the colonies.
The Treaty of Tripoli signed in 1796 by President John Adams:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Ooh, I like this one! Thank you, I didn't realize this existed!
Why is apnews validating these lies? The constitution is very clear.
Attacking the messenger makes no sense at all.
It's the framing
I agree.
I'm Jewish. My daughter is Jewish and queer. This shit terrifies me.
Somewhere a republican just had an aneurysm.
Just one? That's... okay. I guess.
Hmmm. Maybe talk her into becoming a teacher or a librarian? That might up the body count.
I think her librarian mother would love that, but at this stage, I think she'll be an artist because that's where her talents lie (at 13 anyway).
The thing that has made me sad and I've tried to steer her away from is that she has said a couple of times that she thinks she should go to a business school so she can make a lot of money. Her mother and I both decided that being happy was far more important than making money. We were pretty poor for a while because of it, but we were not very stressed because we were happy in the thing we spent all day doing. And now we're doing fine. I've had jobs that paid better, but out of my wheelhouse that were so stressful that I started doing things like developing bad dandruff.
I absolutely believe that doing what makes you happy is far more important than doing what makes you wealthy and I really want to pass that value on to her. Especially if she thinks that working for some soul-crushing corporation is the path she should take in life.
Hey, I was a full time potter for a few years but now will soon be entering IT after going back to school. I think you should kind of reconsider. I agree that soul crushing corporations and grinding for pay are a bummer and I think she should go into something she's engaged and interested in but you should reconsider this opinion.
Being an independent artist is essentially running a small business with a heavy focus on branding and marketing. Many arts programs poorly cover business topics. If she is already skilled in art it may be better for her to attend college for business administration or marketing. The only potters I knew that thrived ran a good business plan.
If she decides to go an alternate route like graphic design or teaching. That's fine although it can be just a soulless and crushing as a business career.
So yeah, while I agree and admire that your were able to pursue your happiness at the behest of some degree of money. I would worry that you might push her away from a path that is not a bad as it seems and I hope I didn't overstep.
I will be returning to pottery when everything stabilizes for me as a hobby or side business and my business IT program has given me some new ideas. My career should help stabilize my life so I can pursue my art, layoffs willing.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. I'm with you. I hope she sticks with the art.
I do too, thanks.
You get an aneurysm, you get an aneurysm! Everyone gets an aneurysm! Yay!!!
It’s a good start.
It's okay. These people need you to exist to help bring about the apocalypse and the Rapture. Pretty much the only reason they support Israel.
Yes, but they need me to be in Israel. They're going to have to force me to go.
I'm sure the basket of deplorables would be happy to make it happen.
Fucking brain dead idiots.
Many incorrectly believe the founders wanted a Christian America. AP should know better than to make it seem like that is an opinion.
Even if it seems to be the opinion of many right wingers and Republicans?
Facts cannot be opinion. No matter how hard you believe.
Yeah, the founding fathers weren't exactly silent about the issue. There's really no room for interpretation.
Given how many "interpret" the Bible, you bet they can "interpret" the Constitution as well...
Which flavor of Christianity?
There's like 12 churches within a mile radius of my house, each a different denomination. They all seem to hate each other.
It's not that I don't fear an attempt to institute a national theocracy (I do), I just think (and hope) that the infighting on what brand will keep them fighting among themselves before they can do any real damage.
Evangelists. The worst of the worst.
Actually I'd put Pentacostals at the top of that list 'cause they're the ones causing most of the issues ... mainly a push to fundamentalism that is no different than what Iran is currently doing.
Or it results in a holy war worse than any civil war as factions fight in their god's name. I mean I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm not going to say it can't.
Time for some Emo Philips:
https://youtu.be/ANNX_XiuA78?si=xeNqJndI9Es4FMpD
Please watch God Forbid the sex scandal that shocked America (hulu)
Shiny happy people (prime)
The family (netflix)
Even if the "smaller hard-core group" sounds inconsequential, a lot of those people are the ones with power and/or influence.
I think there is a fourth I've seen that covers similar grounds and forget atm, plus I'm sure many more that I don't know so please respond if you know others. As you may notice all mine are drastically different subjects on the surface. They have the common thread though of fundamental religious men in power AND the institutions being involved in American politics.
There's no gay agenda. There is ABSOLUTELY a Christian agenda.
There is a gay agenda if you consider wanting to be treated like humans an agenda.
Oh shit... THAT is what they want? Fuck that's deplorable
Say no to theocracy!
meanwhile the white people who aren't retarded are all facepalming and going "look around, you stupid fuck". It's been an overtly christian nation for fucking ever now and that you don't have your sharia law equivalent here is a testament to the structure imposed by the founding fathers, and not the diarrhea you've covered it in. I wonder if they realize there are liberals just about as ready to kill them as they are to kill us. Probably not, "realization" is a magic word to the see no evil crowd.
This article reads like Fox News click bait unsourced trash.
“Some are saying…”
“Many…”
Yeah these are the same folks arguing that if the authors of sec 3 of the 14th amendment wanted to specifically prevent a former president that engaged in insurrection they would have, so we can conclude they didn't want that. So, if they had every opportunity to write religion into the constitution and didn't do it, what now?
Then when you notice that they specifically wrote in the first amendment the establishment clause- and then you realize that Jefferson explained its purpose to be creating a wall of separation between church and state, what now again?
They don't care about internally consistent logic. If they did they wouldn't be religious.
So every church and its earnings go to the State… And Social Welfare programs become more widespread… And housing the homeless is now law… Lying during your campaign is an immediate expulsion from public office..
What else would make these fascists turn tail and reconsider?
I'm a Republican and I need someone to shoot up an Elementary School QUICK so I can pretend to care about the Constitution again!
Donald Trump and his g̵o̵o̵n̵s̵ ̵loons stechschritting toward Gilead. smh
Many? No, not many, just a very loud minority.
Loud and powerful, with a shit ton of money behind them.
Oh, and private jets. Lots of private jets.
Immigrants from Latin America are very likely to be Christian and so are Black Americans.
"But we don't want those kinds of Christians!"
🤔
i believe they're all heretics who should be burned, where's the Inquisition when you really need one
Ridiculous article with ridiculous assertions. I don't know any Christians that desire a 'Christian America', and I live in the Bible Belt. The reason is because Christians understand that Christianity comes in many flavors; Baptists don't want Methodists making the rules, Catholics don't want Protestants in charge, etc. Article is simple inflammatory click bait.
Just my experience but I know someone who is a lobbyist for a high profile brand and has said to me “the founders intended for this to be a Christian nation so making laws that reflect those values is okay” Not saying you are wrong but I have encountered at least one, and that one is in a very influential position.
If you honestly think you don't know anyone who wants that, you've deluded yourself. It's not the majority, but they absolutely exist, and they've absolutely captured the republican party.
You're an idiot.
I'm sorry that you're too blind to reality. I hope you eventually realize that and fix it.
You should look up the southern strategy.
Dominion Theology is damn near mainstream in the Republican Party. No one ever accused Christians of being logically consistent. All simply assume their bullshit interpretation will win out in the end because God.
Just because you have access to the internet doesn't mean you should post your dumbass opinion.
New to the internet, I see. LOL.
You ever talk politics with many of the Christians you know?
You sound like the white people who say racism doesn't exist because they don't see it.
The article above, that you didn't read, talks about the speaker of the house and surveyed Americans.