Pope says 'backward' US conservatives replaced faith with ideology

MicroWave@lemmy.world to News@lemmy.world – 1763 points –
euronews.com

Pope Francis condemned the "very strong, organised, reactionary attitude" in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

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Now the pos conservatives are gonna start calling the pope woke. 🤣🤣🤣

They're already doing that, have been for a long time. I have a Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn't real Christianity...

I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.

I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.

in the US they refer to Protestants as "Christians", mainstream Christianity is made up of Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants

Right—my point is that my coworker (like the previously-mentioned Baptist) was implying that Catholics were distinct from Christians, in spite of being Catholic herself.

I was raised Catholic and the distinction was always made between Catholics and Christians. I didn't really understand that Catholics were a subtype of Christians until someone pointed it out to me when I was a teenager - I just thought Christians was a catch-all term for non-Catholics that believed in jesus.

What country were you raised in? I was raised Catholic in the Philippines and in the US and it was made explicitly clear in my education that Catholics are Christian.

I'm from Ohio and there is a massive Catholic community in my hometown and "Christian" as a term was always used as a throwaway term for the various non-denominational evangelical sects.

Catholics and Protestants do not get along, even today. When I went to college and people thought I grew up Catholic, they would try to "convert" me away from "ancestor worship and idolatry."

Thanks for the insight. Honestly the nerve of some people...

My father made that exact distinction and he grew up in Iowa.

In the US I grew up in LA, California so I think I'm understanding the pattern now.

I mean, most protestant Christians dislike Catholicism, that's why they are called protestants after all.

The new part is American evangelicals and other extremists thinking that catholicism not being conservative enough...

Conservative Protestants have been saying that for a very long time though. The attitude is so pervasive that my wife, who grew up Catholic (but has not been one for decades), has to be reminded that Catholics are Christians.

Not for nothing but that claim is hardly new. Goes back to the Reformation.

To be fair, it isnt; but then neither is Evangelicism or Mormonism or any of these other wackadoo cults within which these assholes conflate their hatred and fear with faith.

What makes Catholicism fake Christianity in your view? Any faith that believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God that died for the sins of humankind meets the threshold, imo. The Catholic Church fits comfortably within that definition.

If I were being charitable I’d label these heretical creeds as Paulity. They have very little to do with the words and deeds of Christ, or living up to them, and far more to do with how Saul of Tarsus interpreted them.

You may recall the Catholic Church was born out of the first Nicaean Council, where they canonized the four gospels that best reinforced the idea of the supremacy of the Roman state, and burned the hundreds of other so-called “gnostic” gospels, which (judging by the content of the few that survived) far better encapsulate what I would consider “real Christianity”.

That said, the whole “No True Scotsman” fallacy really isn’t worth pursuing. It’s been this way since 325 CE, and there really is no painting a happy face on one of the most destructive and inhumane ideologies history has to offer. No matter what my opinion may be, you are correct in pointing out that the Paulity is the institution that is currently regarded as “Real Christianity”, as sick and anti-Christian as it may be.

All Christians use some interpretation of Bible and Christ.

From the outsiders it's a bit funny to observe these squabbles and the heretic accusations.

You may recall the Catholic Church was born out of the first Nicaean Council, where they canonized the four gospels that best reinforced the idea of the supremacy of the Roman state, and burned the hundreds of other so-called “gnostic” gospels, which (judging by the content of the few that survived) far better encapsulate what I would consider “real Christianity”.

I believe you are mistaken. That was next big council. The 27 books were finalized by a man who attended the Nicaean Council. When he got back he wrote a letter stating which books he considered to be canon.

Well there is all that child sex abuse.

That is an institutional failing of the Catholic Church, it was never endorsed as a part of the Church’s dogma. While I would encourage any Catholic to ask themselves if they really should continue to support an organization that hasn’t done even close to enough to reckon with their many sins over the past two millennia, I still think it’s silly to act like they’re not Christian.

Fucking kids ≠ following the teachings of Jesus in my book.

This is also how the Catholic Church sees it.

the only difference between the priests and pastures is the "born again" churches do not have a central structure to follow up on it so they are all just one offs.

There's a ton of it in protestant churches too. The national Baptist church is under federal investigation for it right now. The US has always had an easier time hating Catholics.

It’s hard to imagine now , but Catholics were not considered Christians and it was ok to openly discriminate against them. I know of people fired for that. People still try and convert me to ‘Christianity’ and claim all sorts of stuff.

The KKK and Nixon were vocally against’Papists’

To be fair, even the super conservative Catholics aren’t into this pope. Benedict was their jam.

There a whole YouTube channel by some ex fox host called church militant... It's all about hating gays and lesser religions. They talk shit about the Pope all the time.

It's like everything in America is just power struggles, selfishness, greed, and crime. There's no God or respect for life here. The "good guys" don't even go after the "bad guys" because the bad guys are ahead now. People are so naive here they think heartless crimes are not happening when it's right under their nose. Sometimes the good guys even get used in the plot. Just look at all the old politicians and Americans that got roped in Rogers stones mob puppeting of Trump. America had a mob affiliate for president. I think that puts in stone... Americas bullshit. It's going to take decades to get trust and genuine patriotism back.

I wonder where do they think it all comes from?

You know you fucked up bad when even the Pope is saying, "Whoa, slow it down there with the fascism, bud".

American Catholics have largely voted Democrat for much of the last century. This flip-flop to voting Republican is relatively recent.

It seems to me to be a bit of a religio-coup. Bishops have some autonomy, and Priests some as well. It's become increasingly common that both are in opposition to Rome on certain behaviors related to politics, and exactly how strongly they should be pushing people to vote and for what reasons. The dehumanization of Biden (publicly refusing him Eucharist) for his nuanced pro-choice views is in direct contradiction of papal behavior going back at least to the turn of the 20th century. Telling people that in voting, any sin is forgivable except being pro-choice... well, there's no basis in Canon Law for that attitude.

I live in a very Catholic area, and have a lot of Catholic family. Talking to them, they mention their priests say "you can vote for either party, as long as they're pro-life". The Abortion issue is not the only or greatest issue to Rome. It is AN issue, but disagreeing with the Church is generally not going to earn their full enmity unless you are preaching your disagreement. Biden (the target of that local church smear campaign) is absolutely not preaching pro-choice to anyone.

Pope Francis is right to be saying that because American Catholic Leadership has gone WAY astray from what Catholicism allows or mandates of them.

Conservatives are mostly christian, but if they aren't catholic the pope has little sway over what they do. And they love dissing catholics so yes they will more than they have been already.

If you have a throwaway email to see comments on the Newsmax site, it is Catholics and whatnot saying the Pope isn't the real part of the religion anymore.

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