Edit: ITT: Pharma bros telling me how awesome artificially-inflated medication prices are.
Sure would be nice if capitalism didn't exist 🤪
Sent from my iPhone
Across a publicly funded network with technology originally paid for by the public.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Fuck you! I’m eating
Publicly funded? Sounds like commie shit to me.
/jk right? Right???
Capitalism is the only system that can make things dont you kno?
It wouldn't exist at all if capitalism didn't exist.
People would just get cancer and die like they used to.
Capitalism is the reason we (and you) have nice things.
Capitalism is why we have ruined the environment.
Other economic systems aren't exactly protective of the environment either though, so I don't really get your point.
Other economic systems don't incentivise companies to produce trash products that break quickly to keep the customer coming back, or to use non-recyclable materials because they cost 3 cents less.
Oh yes, they do. Corruption, unrealistic n-year plans and secrecy for example lead to defective products, poor quality and accidents. That's exactly what happened in Chernobyl, and I don't need to tell you how bad that was for the environment.
What happened at Chernobyl was the politicians refusing to listen to the scientists. They were performing an experiment that the designers of the plant told them was exceedingly dangerous, and blew up their reactor. At least they did it unintentionally, unlike the Army Corps of Engineers.
And why did "the politicians" refuse not to listen to "the scientists"? Part of the answer is definitely due to unrealistic n-year plans.
Also, there were other factors at play such as secrecy around the danger of graphite-tipped control rods. The Soviets had discovered this danger already, but had kept it secret even from their nuclear engineers.
Which economic system, in your opinion, would produce the highest quality products? And you can use whatever definition of quality you like
The Six Nations managed to keep their economic system functioning without a hiccup for at least 15,000 to 25,000 years. That one seems to work.
Ok. Let's switch to six nations.
That definitely answers my question
It's very clear you are not arguing in good faith.
When the response to my question of "what do you think is better" is an esoteric shout out to a culture that's been dead for thousands of years, that isn't even in the first page of Google results for "six nations" yeah. You're right. It's not a good faith argument
Not sure why you brought up quality of products in the first place.
Because that's a thing capitalism is great at? If the connection between capitalism and ruthless efficiency and iteration isn't apparent to whoever is reading this then it's really not worth the conversation
Capitalism is the only one really employed across the world.
Yes, no innovation has been done under any system but capitalism. /s Let's forget about how totalitarian Russia was the first to space. Let's forget about how much medicine was developed under the religious authoritarianism of ancient Arabia. Let's forget about how much philosophy was conceived under feudalism.
Let's totally forget that The Six Nations managed to maintain a cooperative collective of hundreds of thousands of people for at least 15,000-25,000 years with their environmental impact being quite literally the creation and tending of "The Garden of Eden."
What six nations?
Iroquois, Mohawk, Seneca, Ojibwe, and I forget the last two
What are they though? Are they indigenous groups in Australia or America?
North American. They controlled what we would call New England, as well as parts of Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Canada
arabic numbers bad.
or is it because edison couldnt claim this to be an american invention aswell?
just because america is full of thieves doesnt mean they invented shit.
rockets....werner von braun
lightbulb....lumiere
computer ...conrad zuse
internet...tim
i am sure americans have invented absolutely nothing and stolen absolutely everything.
biontech is german, pfizer are the murican scumbags.
tiktok&wechat.... chinese
are you still on meta or drugs?
Capitalism is the reason third generation morons have multiple private jets.
Capitalism =/= money.
I'm sure leaving reddit was a good idea, but joining lemmy might not have been. People here are just delusional in their approach to reality.
It seems a lot of people came here because they're too reddit for reddit.
Did you really think these new vaccine will be affordable? Those nice things are for the rich.
Recently read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, and in those books an anti aging "vaccine" is made and shared freely for the citizens of Mars, but on Earth where the rich and powerful still control everything, its used as an incentive to come and work for the most powerful companies, or if you have the money then you can buy it.
I literally hope such a thing is never invented, imagine if the Musk's, Trump's, Bezos', and Putin's of the world lived for hundreds of years instead of finally fucking dying at 90-100 at most.
Terrifying.
That might actually be enough inequality that we might do something about it.
Look up Ted Faro's story from Horizon Zero Dawn.
It wouldn’t exist at all if capitalism didn’t exist.
Science doesn't need capitalism to exist. Technology doesn't need to be for-profit to be developed.
In this case, you have to develop an individual vaccine for every patient based on the DNA from their own cancer. That’s actually a lot of work. $10K a poke is very reasonable given that you could easily spend 10 or 100 times that on conventional treatment.
Okay but forcing someone to pay you $550k (averaging your values) to not die maybe is still incredibly fucking awful, so it's really not hard to be better than that.
I can respect that developing a personalized vaccine might take a lot of work but I'm not a chemist. I don't know how much work it actually takes, nor do I know how many vaccines a person would realistically need to cure their cancer be it stage 1 up to stage 4?
What I do know is that if this vaccine ends up being more effective than the traditional method then it is a wonderful discovery, but if it leads to life-long medical debt and subsequent financial ruin all the same your life is still fucked.. I guess I'd rather be poor and alive, but I'd also rather not be destitute.
I know it sounds awful, but I've had family members die of cancer in the US and Europe, and 10k for a cure wouid have been a bargain in either case.
And hopefully with time the price will come down.
If this truly works, it'll be one of those things that cheaper for society to pay for than letting the disease drag on and fighting it with our old methods.
The $10k isn't really the point. That's just a number thrown out as an example of what we expect a company to do. The real issue is power. Worst case it'll be either you go into essentially permanant debt by attempting the treatment, try traditional treatments with wildly varying success rates, or probably just die. Money isn't even a question really, it's using cancer and the treatment of it as a way to profit at levels far beyond reasonable.
A business should make money. Has to stay open somehow. Make surviving achievable for a good life and still make millions. We were almost universally in shock when that Bowser fellow has his wages garnished by 30% for the rest of his life. Apart from the legal aspect as a reason, how would this be any different?
This is the world we live in. It shouldn't be though. I lost my Mom to cancer and she's one of those people who would have attempted traditional methods due to the overwhelming cost this one promises. I doubt she's the only one.
Damn you weren't kidding about the Pharma Bros. The fuckin Tankies are glad to not be the dumbasses in thread for once
When it's inevitably going to be a lot less than that, will you eat your words?
If it cost ten thousand dollars I'd throw an enormous party. That's already a very small price for a cancer treatment.
Right? Bunch of morons who never had cancer, or never knew anyone who was diagnosed and treated for cancer, thinking a 10k treatment is expensive.
Communism Stan's be Stanning
10k is expensive
Less expensive than now? Yes
Still expensive
That's zero sum thinking.
If it was 10k that is, literally, an order of magnitude cheaper.
You can't have it both ways. The people who I know who have had cancer, and had it treated, the cost has been well over 100k. Some over 200k. That's per time. If it came back it would cost that all over again.
So which is it. Is it evil that a new treatment could cost 90% less? Or should the capitalists do what they do and charge 300k for this better treatment?
As soon as you stop eating that pharma boot, homie.
The article suggests the vaccine prevents the recurrence of a specific cancer by 44% vs conventional treatment alone. So let's be pessimists and say it only prevents recurrence by 22%. Should we eat our words that still 1/5th of people who'd otherwise die or suffer horribly from a recurring cancer now don't?
I think I would be more skeptical of the eventual price of this treatment and less about its effectiveness.
Oh, what villains! Developing a cure for cancer and asking for ten thousand dollars for it!
In terms of cancer treatment, do you have any idea how small ten thousand dollars is?
america is just sad
Do drugs other than betel nuts grow on trees in your country?
Dying from cancer is also sad.
Chemo is also sad.
Who wins?
Find out tonight at 8pm
You know what this sounds like to me?
Like Moderna is gonna ask $10k a poke.
Edit: ITT: Pharma bros telling me how awesome artificially-inflated medication prices are.
Sure would be nice if capitalism didn't exist 🤪
Across a publicly funded network with technology originally paid for by the public.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Fuck you! I’m eating
Publicly funded? Sounds like commie shit to me.
/jk right? Right???
Capitalism is the only system that can make things dont you kno?
It wouldn't exist at all if capitalism didn't exist.
People would just get cancer and die like they used to.
Capitalism is the reason we (and you) have nice things.
Capitalism is why we have ruined the environment.
Other economic systems aren't exactly protective of the environment either though, so I don't really get your point.
Other economic systems don't incentivise companies to produce trash products that break quickly to keep the customer coming back, or to use non-recyclable materials because they cost 3 cents less.
Oh yes, they do. Corruption, unrealistic n-year plans and secrecy for example lead to defective products, poor quality and accidents. That's exactly what happened in Chernobyl, and I don't need to tell you how bad that was for the environment.
What happened at Chernobyl was the politicians refusing to listen to the scientists. They were performing an experiment that the designers of the plant told them was exceedingly dangerous, and blew up their reactor. At least they did it unintentionally, unlike the Army Corps of Engineers.
And why did "the politicians" refuse not to listen to "the scientists"? Part of the answer is definitely due to unrealistic n-year plans.
Also, there were other factors at play such as secrecy around the danger of graphite-tipped control rods. The Soviets had discovered this danger already, but had kept it secret even from their nuclear engineers.
Which economic system, in your opinion, would produce the highest quality products? And you can use whatever definition of quality you like
The Six Nations managed to keep their economic system functioning without a hiccup for at least 15,000 to 25,000 years. That one seems to work.
Ok. Let's switch to six nations.
That definitely answers my question
It's very clear you are not arguing in good faith.
When the response to my question of "what do you think is better" is an esoteric shout out to a culture that's been dead for thousands of years, that isn't even in the first page of Google results for "six nations" yeah. You're right. It's not a good faith argument
Not sure why you brought up quality of products in the first place.
Because that's a thing capitalism is great at? If the connection between capitalism and ruthless efficiency and iteration isn't apparent to whoever is reading this then it's really not worth the conversation
Capitalism is the only one really employed across the world.
Yes, no innovation has been done under any system but capitalism. /s Let's forget about how totalitarian Russia was the first to space. Let's forget about how much medicine was developed under the religious authoritarianism of ancient Arabia. Let's forget about how much philosophy was conceived under feudalism.
Let's totally forget that The Six Nations managed to maintain a cooperative collective of hundreds of thousands of people for at least 15,000-25,000 years with their environmental impact being quite literally the creation and tending of "The Garden of Eden."
What six nations?
Iroquois, Mohawk, Seneca, Ojibwe, and I forget the last two
What are they though? Are they indigenous groups in Australia or America?
North American. They controlled what we would call New England, as well as parts of Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Canada
arabic numbers bad.
or is it because edison couldnt claim this to be an american invention aswell? just because america is full of thieves doesnt mean they invented shit.
rockets....werner von braun
lightbulb....lumiere
computer ...conrad zuse
internet...tim
i am sure americans have invented absolutely nothing and stolen absolutely everything.
biontech is german, pfizer are the murican scumbags.
tiktok&wechat.... chinese
are you still on meta or drugs?
Capitalism is the reason third generation morons have multiple private jets.
Capitalism =/= money.
I'm sure leaving reddit was a good idea, but joining lemmy might not have been. People here are just delusional in their approach to reality.
It seems a lot of people came here because they're too reddit for reddit.
Did you really think these new vaccine will be affordable? Those nice things are for the rich.
Recently read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, and in those books an anti aging "vaccine" is made and shared freely for the citizens of Mars, but on Earth where the rich and powerful still control everything, its used as an incentive to come and work for the most powerful companies, or if you have the money then you can buy it.
I literally hope such a thing is never invented, imagine if the Musk's, Trump's, Bezos', and Putin's of the world lived for hundreds of years instead of finally fucking dying at 90-100 at most.
Terrifying.
That might actually be enough inequality that we might do something about it.
Look up Ted Faro's story from Horizon Zero Dawn.
Science doesn't need capitalism to exist. Technology doesn't need to be for-profit to be developed.
In this case, you have to develop an individual vaccine for every patient based on the DNA from their own cancer. That’s actually a lot of work. $10K a poke is very reasonable given that you could easily spend 10 or 100 times that on conventional treatment.
Okay but forcing someone to pay you $550k (averaging your values) to not die maybe is still incredibly fucking awful, so it's really not hard to be better than that.
I can respect that developing a personalized vaccine might take a lot of work but I'm not a chemist. I don't know how much work it actually takes, nor do I know how many vaccines a person would realistically need to cure their cancer be it stage 1 up to stage 4?
What I do know is that if this vaccine ends up being more effective than the traditional method then it is a wonderful discovery, but if it leads to life-long medical debt and subsequent financial ruin all the same your life is still fucked.. I guess I'd rather be poor and alive, but I'd also rather not be destitute.
I know it sounds awful, but I've had family members die of cancer in the US and Europe, and 10k for a cure wouid have been a bargain in either case.
And hopefully with time the price will come down.
If this truly works, it'll be one of those things that cheaper for society to pay for than letting the disease drag on and fighting it with our old methods.
The $10k isn't really the point. That's just a number thrown out as an example of what we expect a company to do. The real issue is power. Worst case it'll be either you go into essentially permanant debt by attempting the treatment, try traditional treatments with wildly varying success rates, or probably just die. Money isn't even a question really, it's using cancer and the treatment of it as a way to profit at levels far beyond reasonable.
A business should make money. Has to stay open somehow. Make surviving achievable for a good life and still make millions. We were almost universally in shock when that Bowser fellow has his wages garnished by 30% for the rest of his life. Apart from the legal aspect as a reason, how would this be any different?
This is the world we live in. It shouldn't be though. I lost my Mom to cancer and she's one of those people who would have attempted traditional methods due to the overwhelming cost this one promises. I doubt she's the only one.
Damn you weren't kidding about the Pharma Bros. The fuckin Tankies are glad to not be the dumbasses in thread for once
When it's inevitably going to be a lot less than that, will you eat your words?
If it cost ten thousand dollars I'd throw an enormous party. That's already a very small price for a cancer treatment.
Right? Bunch of morons who never had cancer, or never knew anyone who was diagnosed and treated for cancer, thinking a 10k treatment is expensive.
Communism Stan's be Stanning
10k is expensive
Less expensive than now? Yes
Still expensive
That's zero sum thinking.
If it was 10k that is, literally, an order of magnitude cheaper.
You can't have it both ways. The people who I know who have had cancer, and had it treated, the cost has been well over 100k. Some over 200k. That's per time. If it came back it would cost that all over again.
So which is it. Is it evil that a new treatment could cost 90% less? Or should the capitalists do what they do and charge 300k for this better treatment?
As soon as you stop eating that pharma boot, homie.
The article suggests the vaccine prevents the recurrence of a specific cancer by 44% vs conventional treatment alone. So let's be pessimists and say it only prevents recurrence by 22%. Should we eat our words that still 1/5th of people who'd otherwise die or suffer horribly from a recurring cancer now don't?
I think I would be more skeptical of the eventual price of this treatment and less about its effectiveness.
Oh, what villains! Developing a cure for cancer and asking for ten thousand dollars for it!
In terms of cancer treatment, do you have any idea how small ten thousand dollars is?
america is just sad
Do drugs other than betel nuts grow on trees in your country?
Dying from cancer is also sad. Chemo is also sad. Who wins? Find out tonight at 8pm