If we can ban trans medical procedures, why haven't we banned circumcision?

No Stupid Questions@lemmy.world – 146 points – 9 months ago

Was just talking at dinner with family, and it seems a logical action to ban circumcision, as in most cases, doesn't have consent, and is a major (genitals are important) body modification. Can we ban it at the state level? Just a thought.

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Circumcisions should be banned because they are mutilating children's genitals without consent. At least trans medical procedures have consent.

I think it's just religious people being hypocrites again. Hard to convince delusional people of facts when they make up what they believe based on the circumstances. The decisions of religious cults shouldn't have more power than the decisions of individual people. Completely crazy what this country is devolving into

Trans surgical procedures have some of the best outcomes of any major procedures. they are performed on consenting individuals who are always well informed and at or very near adulthood, and only after many other interventions have been ongoing. People who receive these interventions show incredibly low rates of regret (compare for example the percent of people who regret knee replacements or probably circumcisions), and enjoy increased happiness and satisfaction by almost any metric.

Basically every major medical organization in the world (and certainly in America) agrees these interventions are medically useful and should be performed. While there are doctors who dissent, they are in the vast minority and almost never actually work with any trans people, but rather insist all the doctors who do work with trans people must be wrong. It's not a controversy in the medical world, just the political one.

Then we shall ban dentists too. They never had my consent to touch my teeth.

How many healthy and functional teeth have you had inconsensually removed from your skull by a dentist?

Did they remove your perfectly healthy canines because a bronze-age book said dogs are unclean? If not, get the fuck out of here with your infant penis mutilation apologetics.

There is scientific evidence that circumcision results in the area being cleaner and easier to maintain. I'm not denying it is child mutilation, but you also shouldn't just sweep it under the rug as religious bullshittery.

And if you shave your head, you don't have to brush your hair.

I'm sure there are many body parts we could amputate to help with maintenance.

Let me tell you about my revolutionary way to prevent athlete's foot! Also, did you know you can prevent testicular cancer with one simple ~~snip~~ step?

Wouldn't that require two snips?

“Root and stem” with one rubber band!

it'd be easier to brush your teeth if you didn't have any teeth

Does your teeth develop phimosis?

No. But, if they were to I reckon if I'd have the dentist look at them and decide what to do then...rather than rip 'em all out preemptively.

Well one is done precautionary as it doesn't have any big life altering side effects while removing all your teeth does. I understand your enthusiasm but a little medical knowledge wouldn't hurt no one. It's also more difficult to get circ done after growing up.

Well one is done precautionary as it doesn’t have any big life altering side effects

I mean, reduced sensation, higher rates of some kinds of sexual difficulty later in life, and like anything that causes pain and stress to a neonate there are signs that it can have long term psychological effects.

You would only notice it if you get it done after growing up. I don't understand the logic here. Have you been circumcised?

Many men lose sensation over the course of their life. Circumcised men seem to be affected by this much more severeley (anecdotal experience).

I'm in my mid thirties, circumcised at birth, and feel virtually nothing on my glans. Any form of intimacy that involves my dick is more of a chore than anything else. And no, the problem is not that I wank too often or have some unhealthy porn consumption (pretty much non-existent).

Do you think it's okay to burn a clitoris if the girl hasn't had sex before? Can we blind babies because they will never know what they have lost?

Can we violate anyone's bodily autonomy as long as they will not remember what life was like before the violation?

Most cultures in the world don't circumcise and it doesn't cause much issue. It's only the US where it became so common, because the wacko Kellogg had enough money to push his weird ideas, and somehow people still follow it. You should follow his other "preventative" ideas if you think circumcision is such a great idea.

Here's a good video to get more ideas from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ4ES8mOzYg

Honestly such a weak argument. Having helped my uncircumcised son learn to keep himself clean, I can probably say this myth needs to be laid to rest already. It's just not true.

I dont get it either. However the American pediatric association and a couple others keep suggesting it’s “cleaner.” I think it’s based on some large global datasets and there are less STIs with circumcised penises? Even WHO recommends it. It seems like recommended people clean themselves would be much easier…

If god wanted my parents to cut part of my dick off why did she put it there in the first place? Are you saying god made a mistake?

Maybe it was on purpose. The Abrahamic god is a sadist who apparently fucking loves killing and maiming people, so maybe he was like, "yoooo, you know what would be funny?" and then convinced a bunch of people they should cut part of their babies' dicks off.

Wasn't there also that weird ass bible tale where some dude brought another guy 200 foreskins so he could marry the guy's daughter? If I don't have one, at least nobody will kill me and take it from me to give to a potential father in law...

I still have to give the little fucker a good scrub to not stink though so the cleanliness thing has got to be bull.

Yeah. I get that it's supposed to represent how many enemies he killed, but why foreskins, Saul? Could've asked for a lot of other things besides dick skin. Like, idk, their weapons or something.

Because you could buy or steal their weapons, but there's only one way you're going to end up with a piece of their dick. Also means you don't get to count enemies who were Jews.

It's not really about the evidence though.

45 years ago my parents genuinely thought they were doing the right thing by asking the Dr to circumcise me.

They weren't great at critical thinking and have made numerous poor decisions in their lives as a result of vibe-based reasoning.

You can say I was "mutilated" if you like, but I don't feel like a victim.

My parents also supported my education, where I learned to be skeptical, and challenge my preconceptions.

As a result, I didn't have my son circumcised.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/131/4/796

So, yeah. To paraphrase, "When reviewed by people without the same clear and obvious cultural bias, circumcision only conclusively provides an incredibly marginal benefit, with evidence lacking for other supposed (and still very marginal) benefits."

Where is this evidence?

I don't think cleanliness is an excuse for lopping off part of a non-consenting infant.

It would be a lot easier to clean your head if you didn't have any ears. Should we cut those off of babies too?

Not just cleaner but you are also less prone to certain infections. I am circumcised, but it was done as a child. Knowing what I know now, I am glad since it decreases the risk for certain cancers and infections.

I never had not have ever heard of anyone I know having infections or cancers because of a foreskin.

I mean it does reduce the risk of penile cancer (for basically the same reason a mastectomy reduces the risk of breast cancer - less cells means less cells that can turn cancerous), but penile cancer is one of the more rare ones to begin with and the reduction is pretty small.

Technically, you can't get foreskin cancer if you don't have foreskin. Not sure if that is an acceptable reason to cut off part of a non-consenting infant's genitals.

The vast vast vast majority of the worlds men have foreskins though.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/penile-cancer-and-circumcision#:~:text=Some%20studies%20have%20suggested%20that%20circumcision%20may%20help,guarantee%20a%20person%20can%20prevent%20penile%20cancer%20completely.

Some studies have suggested that circumcision may help prevent penile cancer.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/about/pac-20393550#:~:text=Circumcision%20might%20have%20various%20health%20benefits%2C%20including%3A%201,...%205%20Decreased%20risk%20of%20penile%20cancer.%20

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections.

Decreased risk of penile cancer.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections

Suggested. "However, this is unverified"

Okay mate.

Suggested is my phrasing. The studies are pretty conclusive.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139859/

The first link says it's unverified, and also says "suggest", not your phrasing.