Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv area
bbc.com
Hamas says it has launched a rocket attack towards the Tel Aviv area in central Israel for the first time in nearly four months. At least eight rockets were launched from the Rafah area in southern Gaza and several were intercepted, the Israeli military says. No injuries have been reported.
Sure would be nice if people in that region stopped attacking civilians at every opportunity.
Israel is the only one massacring civilians en masse.
TIL killing 1143 people in one day at one location is not "en masse".
695 you mean? Not sure why you're counting military kills as civilians.
Oh my bad, soldiers and police trying to protect concertgoers from getting slaughtered wholesale at a music festival are fair game. Do you hear yourself?
The soldiers mostly got killed in military bases. Which happen to be stationed right next to music festivals.
Also a lot of soldiers dancing at that music festival. Nothing more fun than a rave next to a concentration camp.
Soldiers of an occupying force are fair game.
Occupying what? That town has always been in Israeli territory.
"always" might be a bit of a strong word when referring to ownership of basically any part of that region.
Occupying Palestine. If you think Israel has a right to exist within the pre-1967 borders, then occupying Gaza and the West Bank.
I beg of everyone, please read sources before forming a position on an issue. So much bloodshed could be avoided on all sides if people took the time to inform themselves before jumping to angry knee-jerk reactions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re%27im
If the US were invaded by Australia, we would fight them on the shores of California and the fields of Pennsylvania, but we would also rain down hellfire on Perth and Sydney. I'm not sure why you think the history of the particular place the IOF soldiers were stationed at is relevant. That's setting aside that the reason the occupation troops were there is to enforce the siege of Gaza that has been in place since 2007.
That's where the music festival was on Oct 7, you know, the one where civilians were murdered in cold blood out of the blue? The thing that started this whole shitshow? Please allow me to reiterate:
You should pay more attention to the history of the thread you're commenting in.
All of the Gaza death toll numbers you see include Hamas in those numbers.
There's no way to know how many deaths in Gaza are Hamas (they don't wear uniforms) but Hamas themselves has said they lost 6,000. The actual number is likely much higher. But whatever the actual number is, it's included in the Gaza death toll numbers.
Hamas themselves have never said they have lost 6.000. They have never released any number.
Israel has released numbers. 1400. 1200. 1139. 695.
Israel has pointedly said that the civilian death toll is irrelevant no matter how big it gets. Killing 3 civilians for every terrorist is considered acceptable numbers by the IDF. For some reason if Hamas uses the same logic to kill 300 soldiers and 900 civilians (many killed by Israeli friendly fire) they’re wrong?
I’m against violence by both sides but this attempt at justifying one and condemning the other is stupid.
That kind of twisted logic is exactly what many in this thread are using — somehow defending Palestinians' murder of civilians because they are oppressed. It's repulsive.
Bless your heart
... not helping.
"Hey! Stop that! Be genocided in peace! How dare you fight back!"
Look, if we're gonna agree that Israel has been occupying Palestine for decades and abusing them for decades, at a certain point you need to admit that Hamas isn't 100% at fault. Just like how the USs actions in the Middle East increased extremism and terrorism, so has Israel's. You can't keep murdering mothers and fathers and expect the children to grow up thinking that "peace as dictated by your oppressors" is the solution.
Nobody is ever 100% at fault, life doesn't work that way. People are interconnected with each other in ways we can never fully disentangle.
The question is how best to move forwards towards peace. And that, is not helped by continuation of violent conflict. 8 rockets towards the Israeli seat of govt isn't "fighting back", not vs their air defence. It's "not enough people have died yet".
How many rockets has Israel launched? Defending yourself with 8 rockets vs hundreds? Get real
I think that was their point. 8 rockets has zero chance of aiding Hamas’s war effort so launching them only helps Netanyahu’s argument that they need to continue their war effort. Sending the rockets from Rafah makes it even worse when the world is saying that Israel should stop attacking Rafah.
Thank god israel is throwing 2000 pound guided bombs on refugee camps instead of blindly guestimating a few rockets with calculated trajectories pointed towards military bases..
70% of all homes in Gaza just destroyed themselves right
Yes, the oppressed are eager to hurt people any way they can, and nobody can expect it to be any other way.
But still, launching long range missiles isn't an impulse action. There are so many actors domestic and internationally to do production, procurement, installation, logistics, assembly, that we can assume someone high up has made a strategic decision based on expected outcome.
And the expected outcome is extremely obvious: a) zero tactical gains, and b) more excuses to ignore international pressure and hit Rafah even more brutally.
Or you do nothing and get completely walked all over.
Because what's your solution? Words aren't doing shit.
Any action other than assisting the invaders would be an improvement.
The PA tried peace and the West Bank is being ethnically cleansed more every day.
The problem here isn't Hamas. It's israel.
I upvoted you, because your point about the occupied West Bank is valid, but let’s be clear: Hamas is very much a problem. They haven’t held real elections in Gaza for close to 2 decades and have been in severe violent internal conflict with their Palestinian opposition.
Israel being genocidal maniacs doesn’t mean everyone shooting rockets at them is automatically a good guy.
The "Palestinian opposition" here being the PA, a tool of israel that does nothing but serve israel. The official organisation of Uncle Tom. And as I just stated, they are giving away the entire West Bank to israel and helping israel arrest Hamas members trying to resist.
Guess who hasn't held elections either? The PA.
Hamas is certainly not the "goodest of guys". If you want perfect victims look elsewhere. But their violent resistance is only as a means to reach peace. Hamas has already offered a ceasefire and is prepared to agree to a 2state solution. Only israel does not want peace
So no, Hamas is not the problem. Israel is the problem.
Ok, after some more reading about the government of Palestine, this is not a completely unreasonable position. Thanks for pointing out the lack of elections in the occupied West Bank too.
I don't think either of you are wrong. What you are both seeing is a feedback loop. You decide which you want to put first here, but for simplicity's sake, Israel attacks a threat, which kills people's innocent loved ones. This creates more people who become a threat by attacking Israel, which results in Israel attacking that threat, and the cycle continues indefinitely.
Hamas has long advocated for a ceasefire and is still offering one to this day.
The "circle of violence" is 100% israel.
That'll help.
Frantz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth
I really need to read that book 📕
People without a state fighting for their right to be a state shoots rockets at country that they are at war with.
Kiev shoots rockets into Russia and everyone gets it.
I'm anti-war as much as the next person but I can understand that a besieged people will act like they are under seige.
"Kiev" eh, tovarisch? Ukraine doesn't bomb residential targets. Palestinians should have their own country but don't defend what Hamas are doing here.
It's been almost a decade of civilian targets in Donetsk Oblast getting struck. Sure, blame it on civil war, but point still holds.
In Ukraine's case russia is guilty of both the crimes of hamas and Israel:
russia invaded with the intent to wipe out their neighbour and wiping out Ukrainian identity from the region (like hamas wants to wipe out Israel and would if they had the means). They resort to unethical asymmetric tactics and torture innocents in the name of national liberation like hamas.
as well as
levelling whole cities with massive civilian casualties without regard for human life (like Israel is doing).
There is no equivalence.
You're living in fantasy land. Israel is wiping Palestinians off the planet, actions > words. Israel is guilty of Hamas and Israels actions according to your own logic.
There is absolutely equivalence, both are besieged and their actions are understandable at the state level. Fight back to your oppressors.
So you think what hamas did on Oct 7th was to "Fight back to your oppressors"? You're the one living in fantasy land.
I did not say that and wouldn't. Israel created the conditions for Hamas to come to power.
Looks like Zionists have brigaded this post.
You can't just call everyone who disagrees with you a "Zionist". We can read comments and your responses to them. That's exactly what extremists, like Zionists, do.
Just look at the apologia of these comments. This is Hasbara brigading.
Dude, lemmy doesn't have enough users to justify targeted hasbara activity or any other PR firm, that's part of the magic of the fediverse, at least for now.
There's at least 5 dedicated Hasbara posters on Lemmy .
In all discussions I've had about this, the root of the whole issue that fractures discourse is: should Israel disappear or not?
I think not (even if the original partition plan was too utopic and inviting a disaster), so the best Palestinians will ever get is what was in the original partition agreement, which you just have to accept peacefully, not with war, war declarations make palestine lose ground e.g. 1967 borders. I'm sure if a Palestinian government (not fucking hamas) recognized Israel, they'd get their state tomorrow, but this was never accepted, sooo...
if instead ou think Israel should disappear or turn into an ungovernable fractured state like Lebanon, like hamas wants, then..."fight back to your oppressors" and you'll have endless war.
Whether it should or not, I think the fact needs to be accepted that Israel won't disappear and the question now is whether or not Palestinians get to, at the very least, have the West Bank and Gaza as an independent nation. I hope they get more than that, but Israel is not going to disappear. A two state solution is, I hope, something that will eventually be reached.
I think the wast majority of the world agrees with this. It's even the US' official position.
No it should not.
As long as the Palestinians not recognized israel, israel has no right to exist. If israel wants to gain that right it can do so by accepting a two state solution
The clock didn't start on October 7th. Zionists have been massacring Palestinians since 1948. Palestinians have every right to fight their occupiers.
One act of violence does not justify another. That's the whole reason there's now a genocide. You're just taking it back a step.
The reason there's a genocide is because the Zionists want to exterminate Palestinians. It's unfinished business. October 7th is just the latest excuse.
It sounds more like you're making an excuse for October 7th. And if October 7th resulted in a genocide, I'd say that it was not justified in any way.
I don't need to make an excuse. The Palestinians have been under a brutal colonial occupation for 76 years supported by the US.
And that justifies October 7th how? How did it in any way improve the situation? How did Hamas think it would improve the situation for the average Palestinian?
It's all about the long game. Israel is increasingly being recognised as the ethno-supremacist apartheid state that it has spent decades gaslighting the world about. A new generation of US citizens are aware of the Zionist control of US government and are more pro Palestinian than ever. BDS is growing from strength to strength and gradually turning Israel into a rogue state.
So you're saying that Hamas did something which allowed Israel to kill thousands of children because they're all about "the long game?"
Maybe "the long game" isn't worth it if it results in thousands of their own people's children being murdered.
Yea, because escalation always solves the problems of Palestinians.
It did. New countries recognized palestine as a state, many universitis diversed from companies supporting israel. Icc and icj sided with palestinians etc. Algeria sacrificed 1 million persons to get their independence.
Yes, but France only had to gtfo of Algeria, they just had to swallow their pride, give up and go home. Where do you expect Israelis to go?
They should get out of the west bank and remove the blockade from gaza.
Back to Europe. Or just give Palestinians back their stolen land and stop the apartheid.
Ok, then Europe sends them back to Judea, where they were expelled from, since that is something you do :)
Do you really think Azhkenazis are native to the Middle East? They are genetically Europeans.
https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8C11358210
I don't care about racist talking points, what I care is that Israel exists now and you can't just make it disappear, that is what I am saying. russians can fuck off back to russia, french back to France, brits to Britain, etc. But not israelis, this is truly existential to them.
How would you like it if I said Palestinians are just arabs and can go back to Jordan/Egypt/Saudi/Syria/Lebanon?
Yes, it was. The goal was to get both civilians and military hostages and also ruin the abraham accord. I think what hamas did was terrible and wrong and a crime against humanity because they killed civilians but it doesn't remove their status a resisting group. In fact resistances group killed innocent civilians like the mau mau but didn't made britain the good guyd
Can't believe you're being downvoted. Palestinians have ever right to defend themselves against Zionist colonists who have stolen their country.
Israel is built on stolen land and mass graves.
Eh, internet points are not real. Much of the conversation devolves into purity of tactics for a people who attack their subjugators. Decades of subjugation and genocide are irrelevant but we will overanalyze the actions of the oppressed as society always does.
Show me any nation state that isn't. I'd be really interested if there are actually any.
Ukraine fires rockets at military targets. Hamas fires rockets at civilian population centers. Most people get the distinction.
Kiev ...
Yes, it's the Russian spelling, but it was the widespread on English language maps for decades. It's an easy mistake to make. Kyiv is preferred, sure, but the actual name is Київ.
It's 2024. The naming has significance and to ignore that is disrespectful, and communicates a pro Russian invasion stance.
Edit downvotes from pro Russians. Fuck yall
Maybe more genocide will make Israel safe. Genocide is the best path to peace and security, right? 🤪
Not the best path, but ... eventually.
Soo... the battle of Berlin was a genocide against the German people, because the Soviets killed 125000 German civilians besides the enemy combatants.
Call it what it is: a war. There are blockades, starvation, massacres in war, especially in urban combat. That is why you avoid declaring war or invading your neighbours, like hamas did on Oct 7th, but hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinians, so long as they manage to wipe out Israel.
Is it war when one group is wholly reliant on another for access to food, water, communication, electricity and other forms of aid?
It's ridiculous to call this a war when there's such a dependency. Israel wants Palestinians in gaza over the southern border or dead, an ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Not to mention the West Bank, which is not controlled by Hamas, being a center of settler violence and concentration camps for Palestinians.
Some war.
Why is Palestine not a country? When Israel was created, Palestine was supposed to have been officially created too, you know why?
Would you have accepted someone slicing the territory your people lived in as far back as you remember, expelling you from your home and telling you to move someplace else? I wouldn't have. Perhaps that's why.
You mean the 1948 partition resolution (which didn't expel anyone from anywhere) or the 1967 armistice borders? Or do you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank?
Ah yes, nobody expelled anyone from anywhere in 1948.
Ok, fine, I read up on it and the Nakba was BEFORE the declaration of war by arab states. I think I saw an explanation that said they were expelled because they supported the arab invaders...which was propaganda I guess.
I guess it is a sort of "civil war" of independence, but still pretty fucked up any way you look at it :/
The DW documentary “Israel - Birth of a State” is very informative if you can find a way to watch it. It’s from earlier in 2023, by one of Germany’s major news outlets.
Man, I usually have no trouble finding these docs all over the internet, but this one was harder than expected for an official public broadcaster like DW. All samples in youtube were made private, even the ones that had been published in other sites, the Internet Archive version is mangled...piped and yewtube can't show it... I had to stoop down to the level of bitchute, but it was there :D thanks for the recommendation. https://www.bitchute.com/video/zh8PPsipFwgH/
That's weird. I watched it straight on DW's YouTube channel in October. Well maybe not so weird.
It's still up, but only in hindi :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSMpCPsZXdw
Hasbara bot be gone!
Hamas groupie, grow up!
The Soviets in WWII are not really an image you want to be compared to. They actually did commit multiple genocides in that era. Not against the Germans, I mean they did murder and rape a lot of people, but they were not motivated by the eradication of the German population. Those murders and rapes were "simply" war crimes.
So the battle of Berlin was not a genocide. Katyn and the Holodomor arguably were. Killing innocent civilians is "just" murder, a war crime. When Ben-Gvir speaks of fighting “human animals”, making Gaza a “slaughterhouse” and “erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth”, that makes it into a genocide.
It's the motivation, especially the explicit, professed motivation of the leadership that makes what Israel - and by the way, also Hamas, though less successfully - is doing genocide, not just "normal" war crimes.
Yea, there are a number of guys in the Israeli government that should answer for war crimes too, particularly that fanatic gvir.
The only invaders are the Zionists who were invited into Palestine and then repaid the favour by ethnically cleansing 750000 Palestinians and committing genocide.
7 months and you’re still getting this wrong.
Genocide does not have to exterminate everyone to be considered genocide. Erasing the nation is also a definition of genocide; and Netanyahu has publicly admitted to this. His party charter says to eliminate Palestine. He said he will never allow a Palestinian state, and that Palestinians don’t exist and are just Jordanians. His cabinet has toyed with the idea of forcibly deporting all Palestinians. The ICC and ICJ have spelled out how Netanyahu’s policies meet the definition of genocide.
Can we let this falsehood die already?
Grozny 1999
Ramadi/Fallujah/Mossul 2004-2016
Aleppo/Homs 2012-2016
Mariupol/Bakhmut/Avdiivka 2022-2024
Gaza 2024
...
So yea, bibi, gvir, smotrich and the hamas leadership should all rot in jail for war crimes to set an example. assad, putin and bush too.
Hamas is just fighting back. Chill bros, it's just a defensive action.
There's IDF all around them, but instead they fire the few rockets they have left at a civilian population center.
Terrorists to the bitter end.