4B in the US anyone?
beehaw.org
I feel like this is probably pretty effective. I feel like it should be a thing.
E: see also https://beehaw.org/post/16953380
I feel like this is probably pretty effective. I feel like it should be a thing.
E: see also https://beehaw.org/post/16953380
so, because punishing all women is bad, it’s a good idea to punish all men?
here’s an alternative: don’t fuck republicans… they’re the ones trying to control women.
It's not punishing anyone as much as asserting our bodily autonomy, but go off. Targeting Republicans means no pressure is applied to anyone else to change society. Not every woman will participate in the strike. The effects of it have to be wide reaching.
It's a widespread denial of the institutions behind gender relationships. Saying that the system is dangerous for women and refusing to participate in it.
oh look, zero chance that you’re actually trying to have a conversation… yaaay internet.
almost none will, but if they did, it’s not going to be republican women….
They were likely telling you to go off because the not all men argument is unnecessary and pedantic. Obviously it’s not all men, but it’s enough of them that nobody should have to specify only the misogynists, racists, rapists, etc.
It has always been bizarre to me that good people lump themselves in with them. You don’t have to be defensive! You can understand nuance!
the post i’m replying to says “ no __ with men”… 4 times… it’s silly to pretend that means only bad men….
there’s no nuance in that list….
blanket blaming MEN for everything is just as stupid as men acting like “all women are ___”.
i thought the whole trans and non-binary thing would’ve taught people that’s it’s not a genetic problem with men, but a cultural problem with toxic masculinity….
btw, women voted…. they could’ve all voted for feminist issues and anti-gop but they didn’t…. men AND women fucked this up for women AND men… we’re aaaaaaalllll fucked because of this stupid republicult, not because of a chromosome…
but, go ahead and waste your time with stupid projects, women love doing that!
(not all women, obviously… you understand nuance!)
I’m a dude lmao didn’t mean to hurt your feelings
obviously you’re a dude, women don’t use the internet…
Take a moment, a deep breath, some fresh clean air, and think about why you're putting so much energy into saying.. I dunno, all of the things that you're saying.
If this 4B thing were about liberating women from a literal slavery, if they falsly identified you as one of those nasty republicans, if they really did mean absolutely no men whatsoever: is it worth all of this anger you're feeling? Is your quabble with them over your own love life more important than their fight for freedom? Do you not agree that they should be free?
“deep breath” “all this anger you’re feeling” “quabble”
“do you not agree that they should be free”.
…
lol, pure trolling… not bad technique but a little over the top… you should try to actually get me angry before trying to act like i’m inferior for having emotions and not being a psychopath like you….
but, you do you….
If you're not upset by the 4B women, what are you doing, then?
Do you mean to tell me you're in here arguing about something you don't even believe in?
It's not a trick, man. Trump makes me angry. Dissidents to good-natured protest make me angry. Anti-intellectualism actually makes me really angry—I'm not shy about that.
it’s possible to say a thing without being upset or angry about it…
but yep, classic troll tactics “you’re so angry!” “i insist that you’re angry” “if you’re not angry, how could you possibly be responding to anything!?!?”
you’re very, very boring.
you lost me a loooong time ago, petrol_sniff_king
FYI, you're on Beehaw. Be(e) nice. I know times are crazy right now, I get it. But we still expect people to follow our rules here.
I give it about 6 months of this strategy before conservative men will be paid to pretend to be leftists in order to impregnate women, so I understand the "don't fuck any man" strategy.
They already do that btw
There are lots of men that hide how conservative they are to get their dick wet. It's been this way for at least 13 years.
Its not punishing all men, its punishing conservative men.
4B doesnt neex to apply for leftist men
Well... They didn't say that. So you'll have to forgive people for thinking it applies to all men.
lol… sure….
You really don't think guys won't lie to get laid?
It isn't. They will simply import women from other countries. And this election alone proves the fact that all women are not a monolithic group. You're not going to get a majority to follow this trend.
It seems to have had the desired effect elsewhere. Also I'm not sure if it's required for women to be a monolithic group. This assumption is based on the gender divide in the current election. Regardless, Trump's policies are going to have a natural impact and decreasing birth rate just due to financial strain so if there are multiple factors that are impacting the numbers that's all the better right?
https://www.iar-gwu.org/blog/iar-web/south-koreas-4b
Korea IS A monolith when it comes to a number of factors. Culturally Korea is the antithesis of "diverse".
My point is that America is nothing similar to Korea culturally to pull this off.
Well, I'm pretty sure you're right about South Korea. I don't see that as a reason not to try though. I can only hope that you're wrong about America. I appreciate the insight.
E: Even if it isn't super effective, every little bit helps.
Well, Trump's tarrifs should make it cost ineffective to import women.
/s (sort of)
Because young men will have a much easier time getting laid when abortion is restricted nationwide and contraceptives are harder to get 🙄 talk about shooting yourself in the dick
I'm scared they gonna a pull some Bible crap and force women to marry rapists.
One could only hope they would do that. It WOULD solve the problem.
At least they’d be doing something productive with their damn guns
No. Not… productive…
Jokes on you, they're just going to go full Roman Empire and take twink concubines, apparently.
Matt Gaetz has entered the chat
How do one sign up to get one or a few of these twink concubines? Asking for a friend.
Given how reactionary the average Gen Z guys are, this is less of a protest and more of a self-preservation tactic.
I started this in 2016 in the lead up to the election. Got sterilized in 2022 after the Dobbs decision leaked. Too many guys are secret misogynists at best, and pro rape/anti-abortion at worst. The lectures I had to do to convince my ex that rape is rape, whether you fight off the perp or not.
I can't imagine having to make that decision.
Same boat, but executed the sterilization much earlier (2014 or so when they were starting to really push the TRAPP laws). Saw the writing on the wall and want nothing to do with any of it.
The problem, if you look at the data, is lots of women voted for Trump too.
White women specifically. I'm sure they're uneducated also
There's women who say they'd vote against womens right to vote, you can't trust people to vote for their best interests.
Given that the new agenda is to end birth control, no-fault divorce and spousal rape laws, a lot of women are about to have no say past the first one. Don't get married, and if you're in a bad marriage try to get out ASAP.
Yeah, and men who support women's right. Need to support this as well.
Seriously, look at recent events in Texas. Having sex with women while republicans are in power. It is a potential death sentence for those women.
Unless you can groove beyond doubt, one off you is infertile. And honestly, given the way some republicans are. Only trust your own eyes on the microscope when checking. Because forcing doctors to lie to women is far from beyond some of these people.
Honestly, leaving the US for a more liberal nation is the only safe option the way things are looking.
I don't even know what that liberal nation would be anymore. Sure, for example, Europe is still largely pretty good, but even some of those countries are facing the rise of the right. And they have same objectives as the right here in the US has. Just because it's not as bad as the US right now, doesn't mean it can't be in the future, or even near future. Look at what's going on in Germany or France with the right or even far-right parties making large gains in recent elections and polls.
Feel like it's fucked in much of the world right now.
Me, a lesbian: Aktivsm
I wonder if this results in more kids being raised in brainwashy conservative families.
Not more kids by total but more kids by %. But it won't be enough to keep the old people and economy in its current state alive.
Is a future dominated by kids raised by these families one worth going through all this effort for?
As I mentioned in another comment, one of the conservatives I know put their kid in a captain America outfit yesterday cuz he was "defending America".
If this was wide spread it wouldn't matter, the 1% would not have anyone to stand on.
So this is more scorched earth and punitive than it is trying to fix things?
It forces the system to become something new.
The system which is made up of a bunch of kids raised in brainwashed conservative households.
I feel like this is, in part, voluntarily abstaining from passing your values down to the next generation, which night not have the intended effect.
That new thing could be worse than the current thing without a plan to drive it to where we want to go.
By percentage, but the total birthrate would (continue to) go down.
And now Trump's gonna make it harder to immigrate, so the population may actually start nosediving.
Yeah, others have portrayed that as the goal here.
I just feel like I wouldn't feel particularly attached to the fate of a country raised by brainwashing conservative families anyways, so it's a scorched earth approach. Yes, you've broken the system, and it can be remade now, but those doing the remaking likely won't carry your values....
White women voted for Trump so this is never going to work
Not all of em! According to the exit poll data, 44% of women voted for Donald Trump in the 2024 presidential election, 54% voted for Harris. I think that's enough to make a difference. 🤷
https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/
So what happens when we have a generation of kids almost entirely raised by the 44% of women who voted for Trump into brainwashy conservative families? I already see enough 5 year olds attending trump boat parades and the such to give me concern. A conservative I know dressed their kid up as Capt America yesterday because they were "defending America" after the election.
Seems like it'd suck if an entire generation was raised in these families.
So it'd hasten Idiocracy? Kinda a IBDYBD problem I suppose.
Seriously though, I think the key would be to drive enough engagement with this so that this in combination with the obvious financial hardships that everyone's facing completely annihilates the birth rate.
I googled IBDYBD and the best I got was irritable bowel disease, lmao. I have no clue what that means, can you fill me in?
I don't see the trump voters going for this at all is the problem.
It was a joke. By the time that's a problem I'll be dead you'll be dead. IBDYBD
Aaaah, thanks!
You're welcome internet stranger.
It's interesting that the response to men going their own way (MGTOW) is indifference or at most pity whilst WGTOW are met with hostility.
Except for a million articles like:
The ‘Men Going Their Own Way’ movement is the Taliban of the manosphere
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/men-going-their-own-way-movement
MGTOW should be indifferent, but they kinda got hijacked into another red pill BS place. Their lives revolve around hate for women and not actually going your own way and finding what makes you content.
Mgtow was not met with indifference. They've been consistently criticized since the movement first started, and they quickly evolved into a cabal of Nazi-adjacent freaks. Fuck those guys.
There may be some good that could come from a men's movement for self actualization and improvement, but mgtow sure as shit wasn't that
MGTOW is absolutely no better.
This just makes “incels”, who are known to be too intellectually inadequate to get a clue. I wouldn’t put it past them to vote away your right to say no first.
Once the birth rate drops enough, it won't matter how many incels there are, the economy crashes without kids.
It won't matter when abortion is illegal and rape goes unpunished.
The future is hell for everyone.
Everyone in here arguing against 4b need to take a look in the mirror. The fact that so many of you are trying push against it is in itself a demonstration of why it's necessary. Respecting bodily autonomy does not have to be hard.
Bodily autonomy is the ability to choose 4b, not the reason to do so. Folks arguing against 4b have not disrespected the ability to do 4b. Therefore bodily autonomy is still respected.
"It's over internet commenter! I have portrayed you negatively in a meme, showing you as the naive you are"
Yes, posting a message on the internet while violating nobody's personal space or rights is exactly the same as that picture. You did it! You won the internet! You can go away now.
Go away
Now
FYI, you're on Beehaw. Please be(e) nice. I know it's crazy times right now, I get it, but we do want folks to still abide by our rules and such here. Thanks.
Cute (I actually laughed, haha), but the assumption that meme makes is that it's clear the gal doesn't want to participate in the conversation due to body language.
There's none of that when you're commenting in a public politics community. You're not posting in a community for 4b, for example. Additionally, you're the one that made the initial comment.
By attempting to talk over and belittle others who respond you're acting like the guy in the meme.
blessed be the fruit
Under his eye
I know what my wife's Halloween costume is going to be next year. That's all I'm saying.
… she’s going to choose that costume… right? 😬
Tis but a joke. She laughed when I suggested it, so I doubt it'll come to pass.
E: I might wear the costume though. That could be fun.
We’ll see how things go next year. She might be wearing it for more than the night.
Begrudgingly upvoted
I mean, considering how many incels voted for trump, I think we're pretty much already there. Many of the young men who voted red this election already have no close relationships with any women their age. Obviously women should exercise their autonomy as they see fit. I don't expect it to change how anyone votes.
I'll probably be downvoted for this, but progressives have spent the last several years actively shutting down lines of communication with men, particularly white men. For the best of reasons, sure, but it hasn't been an effective strategy for winning elections.
Maybe this would sway some group of center-left men who didn't bother voting, but realistically I expect it will have no effect on the ongoing polarization, or exagerrate it.
So, creating a massive headache for government ~15-20 years into the future?
Or what is the point?
Do what you want. I don't give a fuck.
The no marriage part is interesting, the rest carries more unintended collateral.
As a movement, removing the institutional component would affect the wider group, and their wallets.