That carve out is so blatant, and so obvious, that I'm surprised that actually exists.
It really puts a negative light on the politicians who wrote the law for all of the voters to see.
I really hope there's some investigative reporting as to who wrote the law, and who wrote that clause, so we can identify them easier in the next election cycle.
Apple: our iPhone is now a game console which happens to be usable as phone
This may seem like a joke, but it won't be next dev conference 😂
They're already pushing for more and more current gen games to be released on the iPhone 15. It's pretty much there.
Lmfaooo what current gen games do you think could run on an iPhone, seriously let me have whatever you're smoking 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
look up the specs and see for yourself. the new pro model is higher performance than the M1 chip
That doesn't give it enough gpu or heat capacity to run without throttling modern games lmaoo
The only thing he would likely have a problem with it is there is no provision allowing independent 3rd party repairers to use aftermarket parts. This is likely the reason why Apple supported the bill. Apple can continue to charge an arm and a leg for any parts and not supply parts to independent 3rd parties
If Apple supports any "right to repair" bill, it's probably not entirely what you want.
I hope not, since he worked really hard to get it passed.
Apparently it's already pretty lacking in that it doesn't give provisions for 3rd party manufactured parts. However I'm not sure if he'll actually do a video for this one, he did one for New York (where he lives) and covered this point already.
He moved to Austin, TX a while ago. He’s no longer in New York.
Not according to NYC /s
Man NYC is like Argentina of America because how dare you become a citizen of somewhere else
“California is home to a number of device makers, most notably Apple, which came out in support of the bill after initially trying to stall it.”
Aka they got whatever carve out they wanted and the bill doesn't cost them money.
It will cost them money, but I'd guess they did the math on whether it was worth it to stop fighting this one and potentially have a bill go through that cost them even more. There are also some things that seem to be carve outs that feel practically written by Apple's lawyers.
Anyway, I will defend Apple against some of the absolute dogshit takes people have about them here, but Apple's stance on repairability and right to repair is absolutely dumb. They spent a not inconsiderable amount of time on the action they're taking to fight climate change and getting the Apple Watch to carbon neutral in the last big keynote and I couldn't help thinking the entire time that if they just made it so that anyone with opposable thumbs could replace the back plate, screen, and battery in 20 minutes or less using tools you can find in any junk drawer, it would do far more than any recycling program or charging during off hours or whatever else.
Ditto for just basic support and software lockouts. Apple is generally pretty good keeping software support (5 years is entirely common) but the arbitrary cut offs are fucking dumb. I have an Apple Watch 3, and they cut software support for that last year which is fine. The form factor has aged out, it was bordering on under-powered a year or two after it launched, and it was time. But I also have a 2015 5k iMac that is just humming along running just fine and that a group of volunteers can get running the latest, no problem. I have no doubt that if that Apple Watch wasn't locked down to hell and back, someone would figure out how to get it running debian or something so it isn't just landfill fodder.
I'd really, really like to see legislation that addresses this. When I pay off a phone at a carrier, I can unlock it and take it where I want. When a manufacturer gives up on supporting that device, they should be required to at minimum unlock it, if not provide source for at least base level of user-space.
There were talks about how Apple was pushing to get some weird wording in the bill a few weeks ago, and people pointed-out how you could probably twist those interpretations to apply to some Apple products.
Honestly just open up the laws around reverse engineering and prohibit software blocks that can't be removed for free.
That will cause actual competition in the repair market.
And enforce giving root access to device owners if no security updates are provided anymore (e.g. if a exploit is not fixed within x time after gaining knowledge of it)
Root access should be available from the moment my purchase payment clears. I paid, it's my device.
Exactly. If you don't have root, you don't "own" the device. Apps, like bank apps, that refuse to run on devices with root access, (or custom OSs) should be illegal.
My bank gave me a hardware 2FA keypad as a replacement thankfully...
Any services/apps that don't work on my rooted device as-is are out, only a few like Netflix are an exception due to others using it 🥲
For apple, the iPhone is like DRM for their software and you buy the license to use iOS and not hardware. 😅
For apple basically every smartphone maker except a small subset with the marketshare that is basically a rounding error that focus on openness, the iPhone smartphone is like DRM for their software and you buy the license to use iOS and not hardware. 😅
Just because Android is more customizable and has worse security practices that allow jailbreak/root easier doesn't mean that it's an intended feature or that most don't actively fight against it. The default for virtually all phones sold is lock you into their App Store and extract revenue from using their services. As much as I love the convenience of smartphones, it's frankly a mistake the entire consumer market made in allowing the default be that you can't fully control your device 100%, whether that's running root or just repairing them easily.
Good point, I agree. Put for what I understand unlocking the bootloader on pixel phones is an intended feature on the phone. Hidden feature, but intended to be useable by any who thinks they are a Dev.
Source: https://www.thecustomdroid.com/google-pixel-bootloader-unlock-guide/
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
I think you're right. I didn't get too specific but that was the part I intended in the "small subset" comment I made, along with others like FairPhone, who I assume offer this.
Honestly I'd love to have more you ain't selling it laws but hey I'm just a dude who wants to play Majora's mask without having to wear my N64 into dust fr why are we treating retro games like they are currently being sold
If you own the physical game last I checked, you can legally play it on an emulator
Except for e.g. Japan, there, it is even illegal to modify your 3ds to download the lost 3ds ware that you bought but forgot to download prior the shutdown of the eShop on 3ds.
Each day we stray further from god
I had a fantasy the other night about making it law that if a company stops selling a software product, "independent distributors" would be allowed to provide functional copies as a public service. The content owners would still own it, the "independent distributors" would not be allowed to profit directly from the items, and if the owner decides to start selling it again, it would need to be removed from the distribution repository so long as it is being sold for a reasonable price with reasonable availability.
Essentially, I want to make ROMs legal to distribute when gaming companies decide they don't want to sell it anymore. Why the fuck is 95% of the NES catalog illegal to obtain. And they can stuff their shit about "losing money" on it. They aren't selling it, they aren't making money.
I have a good half dozen vendors that tell me the installer locking down the equipment is a feature, like it's lost on them you can keep customers around by not being a wanker
Afaik consoles are still exempt, so only a partial victory.
I would bet this is a reason why Apple supported this bill. I bet the iPhone is now classified as a console.
Cell phones are specifically excluded from the definition of "video game console," being instead defined as "general or ... all-purpose computer[s]".
(3) (A) “Electronic or appliance product” or “product” means a product, manufactured for the first time, and first sold or used in California, on or after July 1, 2021, described in subdivision (h), (i), (j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and Professions Code for which the manufacturer makes available tools, parts, and documentation to authorized repair providers, and includes products described in those subdivisions that are sold to schools, businesses, local governments, or in other methods outside of direct retail sale.
(B) “Electronic or appliance product” or “product” does not include any of the following:
(iii) A video game console.
(9) “Video game console” means a computing device, including its components and peripherals, that is primarily used by consumers for playing video games, such as a console machine, a handheld console device, or another device or system. “Video game console” does not include a general or an all-purpose computer, which includes, but is not limited to, a desktop computer, laptop, tablet, or cell phone.
Cool how the OS of the system defines that. I install Linux on PS5 and now I can sell it as a desktop for more money.
"Though there's a carve-out for games consoles" 🙄
Good on them for the rest of it, though, assuming it isn't total rubbish.
I think consoles are exempt out of concern for piracy. Mod chips are cheap, but risky to install, and generally void your warranty, so replacement is out of the question. But if they're forced to supply parts, you can easily replace a dead motherboard or other damaged part in case of a failed install. Not that you can't do it otherwise, but it's typically pretty difficult to get the parts required.
Modern consoles generally can't be modchipped at all... The switch is an exception.
And a donor board can be pulled from another console.
Modchips are also useful for freeing the hardware and running whatever code you like on it, not just free gamez.
I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't track.
Is there anything in the Act that requires the cost of those tools and parts to be reasonable? Yes: "on fair and reasonable terms."
Is there anything that allows third parties to manufacture aftermarket tools and parts? I don't see anything in the Act that specifies that.
(4) “Fair and reasonable terms” means each of the following, as applicable:
(A) At costs and terms that are equivalent to the most favorable costs and terms under which the manufacturer offers the part, tool, or documentation to an authorized repair provider, accounting for any discount, rebate, convenient and timely means of delivery, means of enabling fully restored and updated functionality, rights of use, or other incentive or preference the manufacturer offers to an authorized repair provider.
(B) For documentation, including any relevant updates, that the documentation is made available at no charge, except that, when the documentation is requested in physical printed form, a charge may be included for the reasonable actual costs of preparing and sending the copy.
(C) For tools, that the tools are made available by the manufacturer at no charge and without imposing impediments to access or use of the tools to diagnose, maintain, or repair and enable full functionality of the product, or in a manner that impairs the efficient and cost-effective performance of any such diagnosis, maintenance, or repair, except that, when a tool is requested in physical form, a charge may be included for the reasonable, actual costs of preparing and sending the tool.
(D) If a manufacturer does not use an authorized repair provider, “fair and reasonable terms” means at a price that reflects the actual cost to the manufacturer to prepare and deliver the part, tool, or documentation, exclusive of any research and development costs incurred.
Apple when charging for the “reasonable” costs of mailing tools to people: “we should mail people a 79lb machined aluminum tools that require $50 in shipping and a $1200 deposit.”
Finally, something that isn't vetoed
They need to ban manufacturers from making exclusive deals with their suppliers.
Up next, Apple deems all of it products one-time-use and completely abandons 1st party repair. They will then make all tools provided to 1st party repairers available to 3rd party repairers and be compliant with this new legislation. Zero tools is the answer unfortunately. More at 11.
Up next, Apple deems all of it products one-time-use and completely abandons 1st party repair.
I'm expecting the day they decide to pot everything in all of their devices in epoxy. Want to repair a MacBook? Tough shit, the whole thing is one solid mass of epoxy - time to buy a new one!
Hey that's not bad
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Because California is one of the world’s largest economies, this bill may make it easier for people all over the US to repair their devices.
The law, which joins similar efforts in New York, Colorado, and Minnesota, is tougher than some of its predecessors.
Manufacturers must make available appropriate tools, parts, software, and documentation for seven years after production for devices priced above $100.
California is home to a number of device makers, most notably Apple, which came out in support of the bill after initially trying to stall it.
For instance, Google, also headquartered in California, recently confirmed that the Pixel 8 series will get seven years of spare parts — the same number the California bill mandates.
Though the bill is fairly sweeping, there are carve-outs for game consoles and alarm systems.
The original article contains 207 words, the summary contains 133 words. Saved 36%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Because California is one of the world’s largest economies
Is that for real? I know it is the largest in the States, but in the world?
ETA:
California's GDP in 2022 was $3.6T, representing 14.3% of the total U.S. economy. If California were a country, it would be the 5th largest economy in the world, and more productive than India and the United Kingdom.
If California were a sovereign nation (2022), it would rank in terms of nominal GDP as the world's fifth largest economy, behind Germany and ahead of India.
That carve out is so blatant, and so obvious, that I'm surprised that actually exists.
It really puts a negative light on the politicians who wrote the law for all of the voters to see.
I really hope there's some investigative reporting as to who wrote the law, and who wrote that clause, so we can identify them easier in the next election cycle.
Apple: our iPhone is now a game console which happens to be usable as phone
This may seem like a joke, but it won't be next dev conference 😂
They're already pushing for more and more current gen games to be released on the iPhone 15. It's pretty much there.
Lmfaooo what current gen games do you think could run on an iPhone, seriously let me have whatever you're smoking 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
look up the specs and see for yourself. the new pro model is higher performance than the M1 chip
That doesn't give it enough gpu or heat capacity to run without throttling modern games lmaoo
They literally announced console gaming with the iPhone 15 pro
How long until the Louis Rossmann video that tells us it's all rubbish?
He has a video on when it passed in the assembly.
https://youtu.be/NfhFBSraDSM
The only thing he would likely have a problem with it is there is no provision allowing independent 3rd party repairers to use aftermarket parts. This is likely the reason why Apple supported the bill. Apple can continue to charge an arm and a leg for any parts and not supply parts to independent 3rd parties
If Apple supports any "right to repair" bill, it's probably not entirely what you want.
Which is the premise of the Rossmann video.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/NfhFBSraDSM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I hope not, since he worked really hard to get it passed.
Apparently it's already pretty lacking in that it doesn't give provisions for 3rd party manufactured parts. However I'm not sure if he'll actually do a video for this one, he did one for New York (where he lives) and covered this point already.
He moved to Austin, TX a while ago. He’s no longer in New York.
Not according to NYC /s
Man NYC is like Argentina of America because how dare you become a citizen of somewhere else
“California is home to a number of device makers, most notably Apple, which came out in support of the bill after initially trying to stall it.”
Aka they got whatever carve out they wanted and the bill doesn't cost them money.
It will cost them money, but I'd guess they did the math on whether it was worth it to stop fighting this one and potentially have a bill go through that cost them even more. There are also some things that seem to be carve outs that feel practically written by Apple's lawyers.
Anyway, I will defend Apple against some of the absolute dogshit takes people have about them here, but Apple's stance on repairability and right to repair is absolutely dumb. They spent a not inconsiderable amount of time on the action they're taking to fight climate change and getting the Apple Watch to carbon neutral in the last big keynote and I couldn't help thinking the entire time that if they just made it so that anyone with opposable thumbs could replace the back plate, screen, and battery in 20 minutes or less using tools you can find in any junk drawer, it would do far more than any recycling program or charging during off hours or whatever else.
Ditto for just basic support and software lockouts. Apple is generally pretty good keeping software support (5 years is entirely common) but the arbitrary cut offs are fucking dumb. I have an Apple Watch 3, and they cut software support for that last year which is fine. The form factor has aged out, it was bordering on under-powered a year or two after it launched, and it was time. But I also have a 2015 5k iMac that is just humming along running just fine and that a group of volunteers can get running the latest, no problem. I have no doubt that if that Apple Watch wasn't locked down to hell and back, someone would figure out how to get it running debian or something so it isn't just landfill fodder.
I'd really, really like to see legislation that addresses this. When I pay off a phone at a carrier, I can unlock it and take it where I want. When a manufacturer gives up on supporting that device, they should be required to at minimum unlock it, if not provide source for at least base level of user-space.
There were talks about how Apple was pushing to get some weird wording in the bill a few weeks ago, and people pointed-out how you could probably twist those interpretations to apply to some Apple products.
Honestly just open up the laws around reverse engineering and prohibit software blocks that can't be removed for free.
That will cause actual competition in the repair market.
And enforce giving root access to device owners if no security updates are provided anymore (e.g. if a exploit is not fixed within x time after gaining knowledge of it)
Root access should be available from the moment my purchase payment clears. I paid, it's my device.
Exactly. If you don't have root, you don't "own" the device. Apps, like bank apps, that refuse to run on devices with root access, (or custom OSs) should be illegal.
My bank gave me a hardware 2FA keypad as a replacement thankfully...
Any services/apps that don't work on my rooted device as-is are out, only a few like Netflix are an exception due to others using it 🥲
For apple, the iPhone is like DRM for their software and you buy the license to use iOS and not hardware. 😅
Just because Android is more customizable and has worse security practices that allow jailbreak/root easier doesn't mean that it's an intended feature or that most don't actively fight against it. The default for virtually all phones sold is lock you into their App Store and extract revenue from using their services. As much as I love the convenience of smartphones, it's frankly a mistake the entire consumer market made in allowing the default be that you can't fully control your device 100%, whether that's running root or just repairing them easily.
Good point, I agree. Put for what I understand unlocking the bootloader on pixel phones is an intended feature on the phone. Hidden feature, but intended to be useable by any who thinks they are a Dev. Source: https://www.thecustomdroid.com/google-pixel-bootloader-unlock-guide/
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
I think you're right. I didn't get too specific but that was the part I intended in the "small subset" comment I made, along with others like FairPhone, who I assume offer this.
Honestly I'd love to have more you ain't selling it laws but hey I'm just a dude who wants to play Majora's mask without having to wear my N64 into dust fr why are we treating retro games like they are currently being sold
If you own the physical game last I checked, you can legally play it on an emulator
Except for e.g. Japan, there, it is even illegal to modify your 3ds to download the lost 3ds ware that you bought but forgot to download prior the shutdown of the eShop on 3ds.
Each day we stray further from god
I had a fantasy the other night about making it law that if a company stops selling a software product, "independent distributors" would be allowed to provide functional copies as a public service. The content owners would still own it, the "independent distributors" would not be allowed to profit directly from the items, and if the owner decides to start selling it again, it would need to be removed from the distribution repository so long as it is being sold for a reasonable price with reasonable availability.
Essentially, I want to make ROMs legal to distribute when gaming companies decide they don't want to sell it anymore. Why the fuck is 95% of the NES catalog illegal to obtain. And they can stuff their shit about "losing money" on it. They aren't selling it, they aren't making money.
I have a good half dozen vendors that tell me the installer locking down the equipment is a feature, like it's lost on them you can keep customers around by not being a wanker
Afaik consoles are still exempt, so only a partial victory.
I would bet this is a reason why Apple supported this bill. I bet the iPhone is now classified as a console.
Cell phones are specifically excluded from the definition of "video game console," being instead defined as "general or ... all-purpose computer[s]".
My bad, the /s was implied.
https://media.tenor.com/930WKxE7-RUAAAAC/i-dont-believe-you-ron-burgundy.gif
Cool how the OS of the system defines that. I install Linux on PS5 and now I can sell it as a desktop for more money.
"Though there's a carve-out for games consoles" 🙄
Good on them for the rest of it, though, assuming it isn't total rubbish.
I think consoles are exempt out of concern for piracy. Mod chips are cheap, but risky to install, and generally void your warranty, so replacement is out of the question. But if they're forced to supply parts, you can easily replace a dead motherboard or other damaged part in case of a failed install. Not that you can't do it otherwise, but it's typically pretty difficult to get the parts required.
Modern consoles generally can't be modchipped at all... The switch is an exception. And a donor board can be pulled from another console.
Modchips are also useful for freeing the hardware and running whatever code you like on it, not just free gamez.
I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't track.
Is there anything in the Act that requires the cost of those tools and parts to be reasonable? Yes: "on fair and reasonable terms."
Is there anything that allows third parties to manufacture aftermarket tools and parts? I don't see anything in the Act that specifies that.
Fair and reasonable terms:
Apple when charging for the “reasonable” costs of mailing tools to people: “we should mail people a 79lb machined aluminum tools that require $50 in shipping and a $1200 deposit.”
Finally, something that isn't vetoed
They need to ban manufacturers from making exclusive deals with their suppliers.
Up next, Apple deems all of it products one-time-use and completely abandons 1st party repair. They will then make all tools provided to 1st party repairers available to 3rd party repairers and be compliant with this new legislation. Zero tools is the answer unfortunately. More at 11.
I'm expecting the day they decide to pot everything in all of their devices in epoxy. Want to repair a MacBook? Tough shit, the whole thing is one solid mass of epoxy - time to buy a new one!
Hey that's not bad
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Because California is one of the world’s largest economies, this bill may make it easier for people all over the US to repair their devices.
The law, which joins similar efforts in New York, Colorado, and Minnesota, is tougher than some of its predecessors.
Manufacturers must make available appropriate tools, parts, software, and documentation for seven years after production for devices priced above $100.
California is home to a number of device makers, most notably Apple, which came out in support of the bill after initially trying to stall it.
For instance, Google, also headquartered in California, recently confirmed that the Pixel 8 series will get seven years of spare parts — the same number the California bill mandates.
Though the bill is fairly sweeping, there are carve-outs for game consoles and alarm systems.
The original article contains 207 words, the summary contains 133 words. Saved 36%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Is that for real? I know it is the largest in the States, but in the world?
ETA:
Source
If California were a sovereign nation (2022), it would rank in terms of nominal GDP as the world's fifth largest economy, behind Germany and ahead of India.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California
Thank you. Just looked it up and came to post almost the exact same thing.
Yeah. California is a powerful state
https://www.statista.com/chart/6780/only-5-countries-have-a-bigger-gdp-than-california/
It’s gdp is more that france
Estimated Time of Arrival?
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Yes, but also Edited To Add.
Fair enough. :)
I usually go with "Edit:".
As it should be