Israel arrests almost as many Palestinians as it has released during truce
Over the first four days of Israel-Hamas prisoner exchange, Israel arrests 133 Palestinians while releasing 150.
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But the worry for Palestinian prisoners does not end after their release. The majority of those freed are usually rearrested by Israeli forces in the days, weeks, months and years after their release.
Dozens of those who were arrested in a 2011 Israel-Hamas prisoner exchange were rearrested and had their sentences reinstated.
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Many of the women and children released during the truce have testified to the abuse they experienced in Israeli prisons.
Several videos have also emerged in recent weeks of Israeli soldiers beating, stepping on, abusing and humiliating detained Palestinians who have been blindfolded, cuffed and stripped either partially or entirely. Many social media users said the scenes brought back memories of the torture tactics used by United States forces in Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison in 2003.
Isreal really showing everyone they are the children of the light.
A guy who was in prison got released.. he came back today and killed 3 Jews..
I don't get the downvote.. please check the Jerusalem shooting 12/30
Ah yes, I forgot that every Palestinian is a murderer and Israel is just pursuing rightful justice. How silly of me.
Not every Palestinian, but the ones arrested for murder or attempted murder usually are.
No shit, Sherlock.
Yet lemmings are defending them and calling Jewish people terrorists
Equating Israelis with Jews is, itself, anti-Semitic.
Lemmings aren't calling Jewish people terrorists, we are calling Israel a terrorist state.
Except apparently a lot of people accused of stabbings had no apparent victim and no knife found. One lady had her car brean down so they shot her until they started a fire and she ended up with burns and bruises but also in prison. Seems like a lot of stories are just Palestinians being shot at randomly by the IDF, then THE IDF arrests them and withdraws medical treatment and tortures them in jail...
I find it hard to trust any decision made by an Israeli court. These people need to be retried.
Meanwhile Israel bans diaspora languages, condemns holocaust survivors to poverty while slurring them as soap, and treats Ethiopian and other black Jews almost as badly as they treat Israeli Palestinians.
Is Israel continues its apartheid and oppression of Palestinians, they shouldn't expect things to get better. On the contrary, Bibi is arming civilians. And we all know how well that ends.
Israel: arrest
Palestine: kidnap
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Im not defending the Israeli practice here, it's ridiculous and likely to make matters worse.
I can see how they would use different wording for a legal authority taking into custody specific people under their own jurisdiction, even if it's on shaky legal grounds, and people storming over the border, snatching people randomly off the street while randomly murdering others.
Again, this is not a defense of the Israeli practice, as even the article seems critical of it, but I could not justify calling these very disparate things by the same word.
Let's start calling them what they are. The Jew-Nazis.
Sounds like you thought that Hitler didn’t go far enough with “exterminating the jews” by calling all Jewish people nazi terrorists
No, I think the post is equating the actions of both groups. Seems fair enough.
I'm drawing some very obvious parallels in how they were treated and how they treat the Palestinians.
Is this the only thing you do? go around accusing everyone that criticizes the state of Israel of being antisemite? I'm against the CCP, does that mean I want the rape of Nanjing all over again?
On the other hand, what kind of blood and soil assumptions do you have to make to assume Israel represents all Jews?
When the primary medium of negotiation is of prisoner exchanges, I suppose you can expect humans to become currency.
The people arrested will have been charged, right?
Thousands are under "administrative detention" which is imprisoned without charge.
That just sounds like hostages with extra steps.
Oh it’s okay, these people aren’t from Gaza. So they’re not related to the conflict going on.
This is just what day-to-day life for Palestinians is like under Israeli occupation. This stuff has been happening for decades.
No, no, no.
Just like there can't be such a thing as State Terrorism "because it's legal so can't be terrorism", there can't be State Hostage-taking "because it's legal"!
/s
The term I've heard for this the establishment equivalent of a terrorist: a "horrorist" (best link I could find here (2007) about Israel/Palestine conflict, America's "War on Terror," etc).
Basically what they do is legal, and according to plan, and somehow more respectable and orderly than what the terrorists do, but still the outcome is human suffering, often on a much grander scale than what any terrorist could hope for. For instance the accidental bombing of a school (oops!), or in the use of white phosphorous (which turns the divine human into a lump of abject suffering).
"Horrorists" can make you quake with fear, but unlike the terrorist, they have the legitimacy of a democratic state, and powerful allies to back their actions.
The term I heard for this is "state terrorism".
The actions speak for themselves and how established or not the power of the actors doing the deed is, has no relevance for the moral quality of such actions.
Using different language is a trap put in place by those in established power - it segregates what morally are the same kind of acts into two groups, by how established the power of those doing the deeds are, and the acts of the well established power are relentlessly portrayed using those special separate designations as if they had a morally different character - ann acceptable one - than the exact same acts when committed by those outside established power structures.
This is why, say, when an Israeli soldier shoots on the head a child throwing stones at an armored digger, it's not designated in the media as "murder" or even "terrorism" even though from a strict "taking no sides" judicial point of view it is definitelly the former and depending on intention might very well be the latter.
So yeah, murder for the purpose of scaring the rest is terrorism, no matter if those doing the deeds are part of a well established power structure, called "soldiers" and using 500lb bombs dropped from military planes that cost many millions of dollars or part of a group which is not a well established power structure, called "rebels" and using knifes - the means and how well entrenched the power structure behind the acts is are both irrelevant for the dtermining the moral quality of that deed.
I agree, but I do feel like the harm committed by "state terrorism" is worse, in a way I find hard to articulate. It's true that using a separate word can be a useless distinction, but it does feel different to me in an important way.
But I'm not the kind of person who needs convincing that the state can sin just as well as the individual, so maybe my perspective isn't applicable.
oh yes you can... However when you are sentenced for stabbing two people literally like at least one of the prisonner freed you are not, in fact an hostage
That explains 1 in 5200.
Only 5199 to go to explain it all away: so go on, don't be shy.
I would love to hear how you explain the ones in administrative detention (guilty of the crime of "walking whilst being Arab"?!)
And don't get me started on all the kids convicted of "assauting with stones an armored digger razing their home" and the palestinians convicted of "hurting 'colonist' fists with their faces" or "defending their homes from a superior race".
you must really believe in 13/50 eh? or does racism stop being a factor when you do enough of it?
what the hell is 13/50 ?
you can search it up on SPLC's or ADL's website
Just learning from the US.
Wait till you hear that they also sometimes cover your eyes, tie your hands behind your back, and leave you there to sit for hours to "cool down" and this is totally normal IDF behavior. No charge, no witness, no crime
thing is when HAMAS gives it prisonners list, it is, strangely, more the "I stabbed schoolchildren" than "I tagged anti zionist slurs on the police station wall" crowd that is requested to be free
Ah yes, the 39 women and children released on Friday definitely stabbed schoolchildren. The list of 300 people Israel plans on releasing, most of which are underage or teenage boys, definitely stab schoolchildren.
Because of the IIIrd Reich recruitment service we know that a ten year old can even be trained into anti tank warfare and other funny things. Considering the childhood program created and played by the HAMAS there are reasonable reason to consider that possibility
We have countless pictures of 15 y old full blown HAMAS fighters. So yes absolutely. Second you went from describing them as children to teenagers, a notable change in vocabulary.
Now you don't want reflexion or constructed thought ? Okay you want to know how I feel ? Well i want to vomit, that is horrible.
As much as it is horrible to brainwash teenagers into fighting for a movement who would murder their sisters if she dared to kiss a girl as much as it is horrible to use ww2 mass bombing tactics on an overcrowded cities as much as it is horrible to see ethnic cleansing
I understand that people, especially children, are malleable into believing and doing horrible things, and it's a fact that this will happen to many under Hamas or as a consequence of the ongoing conflict regardless of Hamas, but it's also unfair to those hostages to assume that they're already murderers. It's a tragedy waiting to happen for multiple dimensions of reasons for many people involved in this entire conflict (wouldn't you be radicalized if you saw your entire family covered in rubble or being treated like trash by other groups of people?), and it's extremely unfortunate, but we can't just instantly label them all as bad apples for something that may or may not happen to them, or that may or may not describe them currently. They're still children, we can't cast the dice on them, or we're no different from those radicalized beyond common civil morality.
It's crazy to have to wait for Hamas to do the UNSC's work
What that other person said, but also being charged under Israeli law doesn't prove much about a Palestinian's innocence or guiltiness. The word Apartheid is an understatement of what's going on in Palestine.
Being charged never says anything about anyone's guilt or innocence, anywhere.
yes mainly because they aren't recognized as citizen of Israel
And even when they are, they are not good enough.
yep, they've been before being exchanged
Isreal is the terrorist of the human race.
Sounds like you thought that Hitler didn't go far enough with "exterminating the jews" by calling all Jewish people nazi terrorists
This whole "associating a group of people with a government/country" thing is kinda fucking whack. Your everyday jew is not going to be celebrating the shit Israel does any more than your average Palestinian will celebrate Hamas' doings. Why the fuck would you imply antisemitism on the very notion of criticizing a government that oppresses its neighbors and steals their land? OP didn't even mention jewish people, they mentioned Israel specifically. Israel doesn't speak for all Jewish people, just like Hamas doesn't speak for all Palestinians.
Israel is their 'promised land'. It is more about religion than people would like to admit.
And while I agree there are a fair amount of Jewish people that are essentially like lapsed Catholics and Christians that don't buy the full text word of the Bible/Torah, it is essentially wrong to argue that it is NOT a part of their religion when it absolutely IS.
As a general piece of advice, don't build your religious land on the mass graves of the native population after you massacre them.
Wait are you saying that all Jewish people are Israeli?
Well, is the poster up there saying that all Israelis are terrorists?
Conversely, what would saying "Palestine is the terrorist of the human race imply?" That some Palestinians are terrorists? That many Palestinians are terrorists? That all Palestinians are terrorists?
I think describing Israel as a terrorist state because it uses terrorist tactics is totally valid.
I'm not defending the tactics used by the Israeli military.
At the same time, they're using tactics that are pretty similar to the tactics used by the United States in Iraq and in Afghanistan - yet even back then, despite all the opposition took America's military interventions, we didn't see people around the world claim that America was committing genocide or that America was s terrorist state.
Yet those labels are constantly applied to Israel.
Why do you think there's this difference?
Just because no one said that about America doesn't mean this one isn't genocide. Just because one nation got away with it in the past does not make this any less genocide than it is.
Most likely the difference is political. No one could stand in the face of the US when it bombed Iraq, but it's 2023 now and we know better. It took decades to build a strong case against genocide in Israel. It's not a word people toss around lightly.
That's right.
However, if incredibly different standards are being used depending on the nation in question, that certainly raises suspicions that people are not actually criticizing the act (a military intervention to combat a terrorist organization), but rather the nation itself.
If two countries can have the exact same experience (a terrorist attack that killed hundreds of its citizens), react to that in the exact same way (a military intervention determined to root out there terrorist organization at any cost, willingly accepting that thousands of civilians are being killed as "collateral damage"), but one gets accused of committing genocide while the other one gets celebrated (remember "Mission Accomplished" or the spontaneous celebrations when bin Laden was killed?), doesn't that warrant the question why identical actions get treated so differently?
America occupied Iraq and Afghanistan for decades. Why wasn't the same "strong case" never built against America? Why are people accusing Israel of genocide for killing thousands, but nobody has ever bothered accusing America of genocide for causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands?
You say that America is to powerful, that nobody could stand in it's way - but that shouldn't have stopped human rights organizations from saying that America is committing genocide, that shouldn't have stopped the UN from accusing America of genocide, that shouldn't have stopped people to demonstrate in the streets with Iraqi or Afghan flags demanding "free Afghanistan."
Why did none of that happen?
I don't know, what do you think?
Because Israel always gets held to a different standard.
Now the question is: why is that?
No idea. You tell me 🙄
Nah, you have a brain, you know why.
Well one thing that differentiates is how spread out ethnic Jewish people are, like there are almost as many Jewish people in the US as there are in Isreal, no other ethnicity is spread like that AFAIK.
Sure. Equating Israel with all Jews is just as wrong as equating the state of Israel with all those living within it.
Kay? Somegeek didn't equate israel with all jews, or all those living within it?
And I never said that, either. I was asking whether or not somegeek was equating Israel with all Israelis, since they didn't make a distinction (e.g. by saying "the state of Israel" or "the IDF" or "the Netanyahu administration").
Seems fair in light of the broad statement made by somegeek.
I disagree, I believe it's understood in common parlance. I hate "Iran" not the majority of its peoples but the government that rules it. I've been saying fuck Israel, I have no issues with the majority of Israelis and since for some reason it needs to be said now, I certainly don't have issues with Jewish people because they are Jewish.
Would you apply those same standards to Gaza?
Would you say you hate "Gaza" if you hated the government that rules it, but not the millions of Palestinians living there?
Would you say "fuck Gaza" if you had no issues with the majority of Palestinians?
Because to me, it just seems that people apply wildly different standards. People seem to explain "here is my standard" when talking about one side, and then they absolutely refuse to adhere to their own standard when talking about the other side.
Saying Fuck Gaza is like saying fuck Wyoming, so sure why not? We say fuck Texas, or fuck Florida all the time. Saying fuck Palestine would be the equivalent to Saying fuck Israel. And yes people DO apply different standards. Welcome to being human. Not everything I'd black and white. Biases exists I'm. Not sure why this is apparently taking you by surprise. Let's get Israel out of occupied Gaza, and then we can criticize the Palestinian governments lack of care for its people? Same with Ukraine, I fully support Ukraine, is their government without faults? No, but they're kind of being attacked right now, so critizing them for doing XYZ or not doing XYZ while being bombed is pretty fucking stupid.
The West Bank is ruled by Fatah. Gaza is ruled by Hamas, partly because after Israel withdrew from Gaza, removed all Israeli settlers in Gaza, tore down illegal Israeli settlements and handed over other Israeli infrastructure to the Palestinians, Hamas got into power and never held elections again. Oh, and they also murdered Fatah members and instituted a de facto dictatorship.
So it makes sense to look at Gaza separately from the West Bank.
Well, all right then: are you okay with people saying 'Fuck Palestine" if they just dislike Hamas?
Man imagine someone seeing Nazi being used as an insult and turning around to demand why that person likes the Nazis so damn much
Just purging those of a different rac/ethnicity. Nothing to see here said the Germans, I mean Israelites.
Your point is clear, but as a Dutchie, refusing to separate Nazis from Germans is a slap in the face of all the people who've tried to make up for it or were born afterwards.
So, fixed it for you.
heck some Germans even tries to fight the Nazis, and sure, they paid for it, but they tried
Why are they arresting citizens of Israel when their enemy are insurgents in Gaza?
It's only confusing if you accept the framing that their enemies are only hamas militants.
Who thaught trying to exchange your fighters against the other sides childrens would backfire ?
If you are a human being and not a bot, please get outside of your propaganda bubble and educate yourself. Israel's "prisons" are today's concentration camps, holding thousands of women and children without charges and evidence, not just "fighters."
If Israel's behaviour is not collective punishment (in contravention of international law), then answer why the IDF has even kept the dead bodies of their Palestinian hostages in numbered graves or refrigerators instead of returning them to their families. Answer why Israelis have been livid with Netanyahu's administration. Even if they don't fully see eye to eye with the rest of the world on this, even many Israelis understand the Netanyahu gov't, settlers, and the IDF are the ones doing the most to put innocent Jewish people in the way of harm.
I'm spending my whole fucking time telling privileged glorified nazis that no one loves that fucker back there ! Mostly because if his shit go on i'll have to attend the funerals of many friends because he dragged them in his mess and have been doing that for all of his office ! I know that. That's everything I'm telling. The problem is that most of the time when I start to agree with some internet people on that they immediately try drag me to : "you should be glad they're gonna kill your friends".
Meanwhile I see "pro-palestinians" repeating actual IDF propaganda lines. And behaving EX-ACT-LY how the Likud NEED you to behave because their only goal, is exactly the same as the HAMAS : to continue that war as long as possible.
And I'm in a state of fucking despair BECAUSE EVERYONE ON EARTH DECIDED TO BE FUCKING DUMBASS AND TAKE THE ROAD THAT WILL KILL A MAXIMUM OF PEOPLE IN THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY !
So wake the fuck up. Don't listen to the Likud. Don't listen to the HAMAS and stop repeating their bullshits.
And can you guess why the hell is that. Why is the world blind to the fact that benny has less support the Emmanuel Macron. Because Nethanyahu greatest victory was to not only successfully lies to his allies but also to his ennemies.
If you would like to see peace happen, then for a start, reject ALL of Likud's divisive and harmful lies and propaganda. You're repeating it yourself with the woefully inaccurate and incredibly politically charged terms of exchanging "fighters" for "children" framing. Palestinians-- many of whom are literal children-- are just being rounded up wholesale, including in the West Bank where Hamas doesn't exist. How can you call them "fighters" without charges, without evidence, without a trial... only on the word of the same IDF whose members have been proudly posting videos of their own war crimes? Wasn't it supposed to be never again for anyone?
I can't help but wonder what Isreal is doing to these prisoners to need such a consistantly high number of men, women and children (that they call sub-human animals) at hand.
We already know Isreal steralises black jews and stole shephardic babies from their mothers to rehome in ashkenazi fanilies. And that Isreal tests weapons on the remaining Palestinian territories and Gaza.
Are the imprisoned Palestinians really only there to be starved, raped and beaten by the guards and to break the moral of the unimprisoned Palestinians?
Because at this point I would not be surprised if we start hearing of a new virus or sterility or something equally as fucking Mengeler being reported from Gaza in the next few weeks/months.
(Just re-read this and had to reword a section as I realised I wrote 'Palestinian settlements' and as it's their fucking country and the Isrealis are the settlers, that is not a phrase I want to consciously use.)
sadly its unlikely it will come from Tel Aviv, Teheran is
much more advanced in that domain
Oh it's aljazeera. They're just straight up pro Islam propaganda lately.
Here's an article from HumanRightsWatch on the general situation: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap
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lately ?