Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago
nytimes.com
Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.
Archive: https://archive.is/WYXwd
I've always had the feeling like this is something Netanyahu and his cabinet wanted. It seems to me that they thought in their screwed up minds it would benefit them somehow.
To read this article use archive.ph. I can't post direct link as it's against this instances rules.
It's well established that Netanyahu undermines moderate Palestinian leadership through legitimizing radical Palestinian leadership, aka Hamas. Netanyahu engaging in diplomatic relations with Hamas in Gaza while ignoring good faith overtures from the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is par for the course. As long as he can keep Hamas in power, he thinks he can more effectively justify Israel's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people
There is one thing doing that.. And another thing of letting Hamas kill 1000 Israelis.
It's all the same thing to Netanyahu, just further justification for violence. Netanyahu very blatantly does not actually care about Israeli lives, only how events impact his ability to retain power
can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs
Hamas killing 1000 Israelis unifies the country in a way that a weak Palestinian Authority doesn't.
I mean think about it for a second.
You're a bully. You want to kill some kid but you can't just outright kill him. So you've been bullying this kid for years building up his frustrations and you know he's gonna break soon. He finally snaps and tries to fight back. You use this opportunity to kill him and then publicly declare self defense.
Seems pretty cut and dry for a piece of shit bully.
Netanyahu's policy has been to bolster Hamas. It's not even a secret, he said as much himself.
This is some crazy shit in here.
The question: is the incompetence willful?
Its hubris. Not the first army to do so in the last 24 month. Despite advance in technology and sources, intelligence security seems to not be easy.
If not, the willfullness is incompetent.
There’s got to be a corollary to Hanlon’s Razor that applies to politics:
Always attribute to malice that which cannot be more easily explained by incompetence.
That's a much, much better aphorism than Hanlon's razor.
Unless they can demonstrate that they took measures to react to this intelligence, it has to be willful doesn't it?
Not necessarily. it's possible it was straight up incompetence.
That said, I'm extremely skeptical of that, because frankly, the powers that be really, really, wanted this war.
They (Israel) can't claim they didn't know where Hamas cells were hiding before the attack, and somehow know where they are after the attack. That is why the response is total bullshit. If they knew where to strike beforehand, they would have done it. It's all a power play at the cost of many lives on both sides.
Incompetently taking measures is still taking measures, but I see what you mean.
Incompetently attempting measures and then covering up their failure would be tantamount to having willfully ignored it.
Always felt like they wanted an excuse to invade and decimate the Palestinians, maybe they did nothing so they would have the excuse
That's honestly what I'm thinking and holy shit that's horrible if true, which it seems like it just might be.
I mean if I wanted to do it, bombing the entire city to rubble would help, so you can just swoop in built your shit and pretend it never happened
I suspect this is damage control - that Israel can no longer pretend that they didn't know in advance, so they have to pretend that the failure to act to prevent the attack was a mistake, rather than a considered decision made specifically so that Hamas would provide them with an excuse to invade and occupy Gaza.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. Also, I doubt they'd intentionally kill 1200 of their own to do so.
I wouldn't underestimate netanyahu's desire to do genocide.
Besides, it can easily be both. He wanted an excuse AND was an idiot who underestimated the damage Hamas is capable of
Like "Remember the Maine". For those who forgot "The Maine", it was a US Navy ship that sunk in Havana's harbor, contributing to the Spanish American War.
Most investigations (both modern and contemporary) have determined the explosion was an accident, but it was still used to justify going to war with Spain.
I wouldn't put it past Bibi, but either way I hope it will have severe consequences for him.
That's good advice when dealing with family and friends, but bad advice in almost any other situation, especially when judging world leaders.
So much for "never again" after the Yom Kippur war.
Bibi asleep at the wheel, or, more likely, turning a blind eye to a deadly disaster to turn it into an "opportunity".
They said 'never again' about genocides as well, and yet they sent weapons to Azerbaijan to move Armenians off their land, and now they're doing the same to Palestinians.
Lol Bibi is so done.
He's not. He'll silence all critics with his constant battle cries and continue to create endless chaos so he is not the focus.
Hamas did him a favour, and he uses it.
What are you basing that on?
In the latest election polls, Netanyahu is being absolutely destroyed by Benny Gantz. Public trust in Netanyahu is currently sitting at 4%. I can't see battle cries mattering when 96% of the population want him to shut the fuck up.
Gantz is a moderate on Palestine and backs both strengthening the PA and a two state solution. None of this sounds like victory for Netanyahu. His career is over, his legacy is irreparably tarnished, and his political enemies are going to come to power.
I base that on voters choices not in polls but in elections - the clowns, the idiots, even the murderers are being constantly elected and reelected, very often by those who suffer the most from those dumb politics. You see it everywhere. I'm completely baffled by this - human nature really has some shitty effects.
I however hope you are right, and that the Israeli people will do the right thing. I will believe it when I see it. I don't believe it now.
This thread about Israel and Hamas is almost 12 hours old and Downpunxx hasn't shown up yet. That's odd.
I've blocked a lot of people, but few are obnoxious enough that I recognize their names.
Netenyahu, security mastermind.
Why is it I keep thinking....
Bin Laden Determined To Strike In US
If Bibi wasn't screwed before, he sure is now and W should have been then.
They're using Uncle Sam's playbook which was undoubtedly gifted to them by the US itself. There is so much profit to be made afterall.
This is devastating to Bibi. So long, asshole!
Ugh... the "Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor" types are going to go crazy about this - I suppose it's simply too much to understand that the Israelis aren't the supersoldiers their propaganda makes them out to be.
Sending this to my wife. Called it on Oct 8.
What were they supposed to do with the knowledge Hamas has lots of plans to attack them? Build a wall with a highly advanced defensive systems to try and stop them? Oh, right...
If I told you a year ago that I plan to punch you in the face then is it your fault when I do it?
Hamas loudly say they plan to kill all Jewish people in Israel, when Israel takes measures to prevent that everyone says they're the bad guy - now people are blaming them for not taking enough measures? It makes only one sense, that is if you assume the people saying it don't care about anything beside hating Israel.
Uh.. they acquired detailed plans about this attack that they just declared impossible then they received info from veteran intelligence officers that Hamas was actively preparing for the attack they said was impossible. After receiving those warnings, and also the previously disclosed warnings from Egypt, they left the area the plan said was the point of attack completely undefended. There doesn't seem to have been any contingency plan in place to deal with this if this if it turned out to be true. It doesn't seem unfair to say that this was an enormous intelligence and security failure.
They only have limited resources and were using those to defend areas where Hamas were actively attacking. If they'd put all their troops to defend mostly empty desert then the weakspot would have been somewhere else and they'd have targeted their attack at that weakspot instead.
War isn't easy, certainly not against well funded terrorist organisations. I'm sure the IDF knew of hundreds of potential attacks and plans that Hamas wanted to carry out, knowing what they'll actually do and when is an impossible feat - I bet they're weren't many in Hamas itself that had any idea what was going to happen, even Iran who trains and funds them appeared surprised.
I doubt it. More likely they would rather portray themselves as careless than ignorant.
If they're just careless then the settler-colonial occupation is still viable, they just need to be more attentive and serious.
If they're ignorant, however, the whole thing was always impossible and it always will be.
They would rather be thought of as incompetent than discredit the project itself. Incompetent people can be replaced. Zionism can't.
EDIT Think about this! Zionists don't want the world to know that they were outsmarted or outmatched. They'd rather portray themselves as allowing the attack to happen through carelessness or maliciousness because they can not allow their invincibility to be questioned.
The truth is, their project has always been doomed. No amount of surveillance and brutality and security can ever contain a people forever. The colonized either need to be exterminated or they will always find ways to resist.
They want to deminish Hamas's accomplishment. That's it.
I feel like their invincibility is questioned every time Hamas fires a rocket in their direction.
It usually takes more effort to defend something than to attack.
Their invincibility is affirmed every time the Iron Dome repells a rocket attack. They get to trumpet their invincibility and sell their image as godlike and untouchable.
The incursion ruined that image and made Israel look weak. That's why Israel is responding with genocide.