stop trying to "expose the hypocrisy of the right". that only works if your opponent is beholden to reality and has shame. that's not been what matters to them for over a decade now. you "expose their hypocrisy", and they'll just say "okay" and kill you anyway. they're openly, nakedly terroristic christian ethnonationalists. they believe any evil they commit is good because god is on their side. if this was a chess match, the right has already flipped the board over and pulled out a gun and the left is trying to argue that bishops aren't allowed to move vertically.
Pointing out the hypocrisy is extremely useful for convincing open minded individuals who are listening to the arguement. Specifically the next generation.
The Satanic Temple actually takes action to challenge laws, like when they commissioned a statue of Baphomet to be displayed at the Oklahoma state capitol after a monument of the 10 commandments was installed there. After a court case the monument was removed.
From their website
No, nor do we believe in the existence of Satan or the supernatural. The Satanic Temple believes that religion can, and should, be divorced from superstition. As such, we do not promote a belief in a personal Satan. To embrace the name Satan is to embrace rational inquiry removed from supernaturalism and archaic tradition-based superstitions. Satanists should actively work to hone critical thinking and exercise reasonable agnosticism in all things. Our beliefs must be malleable to the best current scientific understandings of the material world — never the reverse.
I met a boomer guy who really thought the Satanic Temple believed in Satan. He wouldn't even hear it.
He was also in a cult for half of his life. Like the "I live in a isolated bunker farm and gave up my passport/social security card" cult.
Not saying they're related. but I am leaning towards anyone who has a negative opinion of the Satanic Temple also being a fucking moron.
I don't remember where, but I saw a debate over the validity of the Satanic Temple. And one uber religious guy said something like "well if you don't believe in an actual Satan who does?"
To which the other guys just deadpan dropped "Christians".
Still don't quite understand what the first guy was going for there.
but I am leaning towards anyone who has a negative opinion of the Satanic Temple also being a fucking moron.
It's not that easy - I underwent the same kind of brainwashing when I was a kid (I grew up in Apartheid-South Africa) where everything from the peace-symbol to soccer to underwear that wasn't made from 100% cotton was hysterically painted as "satanic..." and I'm being quite literal.
It's difficult to undo all that - no matter how smart you happen to be.
All hail jesus and his angel bahamut
I donated to The Satanic Temple last month and encourage others to do the same. Given that my donation was used exactly as I’d intended (highlighting hypocrisy), I’ll be turning on recurring donations when I get home.
They genuinely do great work, I've always felt my donations are put to good use.
Exposing the right's hypocrisy doesn't really do much. Many of them know but don't care. Many of them don't know but also don't care.
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Fool proof method for arguing with fascists: apply their logic to them.
They think their beliefs are universal. But the second you characterize them as the out-group of a violent in-group, they'll quickly qualify their statements. Be a rhetorical mirror to their misanthropic, suspicious, hateful worldview.
There was a book about authoritarian personalities I was reading a while ago that was fascinating and depressing. It had a study that showed right wing authoritarians are also willing to hunt down themselves
Suppose the federal government, some time in the future, passed a law outlawing various religious cults. Government officials then stated that the law would only be effective if it were vigorously enforced at the local level and appealed to everyone to aid in the fight against these cults.
[...]
Who can ’em be? Nearly everybody, it turns out. I started with a proposition to outlaw Communists and found authoritarian followers would be relatively likely to join that posse. Ditto for persecuting homosexuals, and ditto for religious cults, “radicals” and journalists the government did not like. So I tried to organize a posse that liberals would join, to go after the Ku Klux Klan. But high RWAs crowded out everyone else for that job too. Then I offered as targets the very right-wing Canadian Social Credit Party, the Confederation of Regions Party, and the mainstream Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. These were the parties of choice for most authoritarian followers at the time, yet high RWAs proved more willing to persecute even the movements they liked than did others.
Finally, just to take this to its ludicrous extreme, I asked for reactions to a “law to eliminate right-wing authoritarians.” (I told the subjects that right-wing authoritarians are people who are so submissive to authority, so aggressive in the name of authority, and so conventional that they may pose a threat to democratic rule.) RWA scale scores did not connect as solidly with joining this posse as they had in the other cases. Surely some of the high RWAs realized that if they supported this law, they were being the very pople whom the law would persecute, and the posse should therefore put itself in jail. But not all of them realized this, for authoritarian followers still favored, more than others did, a law to persecute themselves. You can almost hear the circuits clanking shut in their brains: “If the government says these people are dangerous, then they’ve got to be stopped.”
So I wouldn't bank on their self awareness
Okay, that's scary
Big ups for Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians. Great book.
There is only one party that cares about hypocrisy. And it ain't the conservatives.
The point isn't about getting them to stop, but to help more moderate people realize what they're doing.
As an anarchist, this is why I openly ask, who am I going to punch in the throat next?
That Baphomet statue is so amazingly cool and so lovely - I don't see why anyone would have an issue with it. Religious freedom is protected in this country, no matter what religion or who is practicing it. Satan is also known as the bright Day Star, there is a freedom even greater within the teachings of Satanism than you'll find in any modern "christian" practice; all are welcome. Come in children, come in.
I bought a Baphomet statue on Etsy because of that incident. Sadly, it doesn’t include the kids adoring Baphomet, buts it’s still cool as fuck on the top of my book case. Support an artist and let his loving gaze grace your home today!
Oh that is very cool. I didn't know such a thing was possible! I'll check out Etsy to see if I can find it. I definitely want that! It's the kind of occult art object i'm really into.
Lol I was a Christian fundie when they first unveiled the statue. I found it genuinely terrifying
I've seen many documentaries about this statue and from the first, I found it beautiful and engrossing. But then again, I've never been a christian - my family's pagan roots go back to the very beginning of time. And to honest, I sometimes find "christian" churches and cathedrals "terrifying" in their preservation of a dark-ages kind of sad reverence for spooky dieities and weird rituals. And paintings that are mystifying.
It has been 12 days since I last posted this image
Can you post it more frequently
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞ of course
It has been 12 days since I last posted this image
Thank you for your service!
That's too many words for fascists to understand. You need to make it simpler.
"I have mine, go fuck yourself"
This stunt used to work with the Bush-era (Jr. or Sr.) Republicans. They actually believed in the constitution, they didn't like thinking of themselves as hypocrites. They took pride in having a system of beliefs that was supported by logic. They believed in debates, and thought that their ideas would win.
The MAGA Republicans have clearly abandoned all of that. They don't care about logic. They don't care about the constitution. What matters is their fear. What matters is their interpretation of their religion. What matters is their strongman. It's a fascist movement.
Putting up a satan-inspired display only convinces them that they're right to be afraid, and that they truly are fighting against evil, and that they need their strongman to root out that evil. I still think it's important to push back, even if it only encourages the fascists. But, it's not helpful in the way it used to be when the other side was capable of being embarrassed by hypocrisy.
The bushes stoked fear as well. Remember when they went after the gays? Oh how about blacks getting free from prison? Willie Horton. That's all they know. Hit them as hard as you can with hypocrisy in their face over and over. Then they will learn when something similar happens to them.
But what it also does is force them to allow other religions into their ‘religion can do this-and-that’s bullshit, which they hate.
The GOP is proud of it. Nobody's learned anything.
Hence my donations to the satanic temple. Doing the Lord's Baphomet's work!
Hail Satan
That's how it's always been with conservatives. Free speech for me, but not for thee. They've been used to suppressing and outright banning anything that doesn't tick their particular boxes for so long that they are in a constant state of rage that they aren't the arbiters of public decency anymore.
Covid was the clear turning point for me.
Watching them protest.
Then beg for help at a hospital while on their death bed. If they survived, they'd only to then trash the hospital afterwards.
Meanwhile, they were out there getting those of us with poor immune systems sick...proudly.
Even a toddler could manage to do that. They don't even try to hide it anymore.
The Satanic Temple does not worship Satan so how are they satanists?
The same way members of the Church of Satan are Satanists. What your probably thinking of is Devil Worship which is different. You can actually go to either of these organizations websites and they should be able to give you a good overview.
I looked after posting. TST refers to themselves as satanic even though worshipping is a part of the core tenets.
Why do these organizations exist?
I don't know about the Church of Satan, but the TST exists to mock religion, expose the hypocrisies of the religious, and promote human rights.
From their tenants, they exist for a bit more than that. Their tenants are all about self empowerment.
Yeah, I was oversimplifying a bit.
Tenets*
Because they piss off the snowflakes
That makes sense
Why does any club exist?
I don't have anything against it, just wondering about their motives.
Like another comment said, your best source is going to be their own websites. But from an outsider's perspective, their motive seems to be taking the good ideas from the Abrahamic religions (love your neighbor, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, etc) and replacing some of their worse tendencies (close-minded devotion to YOUR interpretation of God and anything less will send you to Hell) with their polar opposites: "Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world" (Tenet V from The Satanic Temple's website)
Why should Christians have a monopoly on fellowship and community? TST can be a secular, humanist way for people to be part of a community without all the baggage of religion and dogmatic thought.
They shouldn't, nor any religion should. Again, I don't have anything against it I just wanted to know how it formed and what are it's beliefs, most religion have a god or some shit I just asked what are theirs.
See the post you're commenting on for clarification.
Do you have any idea how many variations of Christianity there are? Do you question why there are so many? Or variations of Islam? Or Buddhism?
It's just a silly question.
I don't know them all but I know a few. Yes I do question why there so many and it most likely has to do with money, power or some idealistic bullshit. Again, I have nothing against the organization I was just wondering abouttheirr beliefs
Wtf u mean why? Lmao
The same way that most Americans say "praise Jesus", I guess. Sure, the latter case might actually believe in Jesus, but they're not worshiping him according to his beliefs.
The satanic Temple is the same in reverse: they don't believe in Satan, but they believe hat following certain tenets make you a better person.
Edit: On a related note, I look forward to the day that voice to text can handle such "complicated" words as "tenets". FFS.
Don't try to apply logic to religion. You'll never get anywhere.
No u
The Satanic Temple really showing how stupid people really are.
Satanists expose the GOP doublespeak on "free speech" and bigoted rhetoric
Well. It's Tuesday.
ive been hailing satan since it became cool in the 1980s
I don't understand the part about not censoring calls for genocide. I feel like calling for the death of a group of people should not be covered under free speech. There's obviously a limit to free speech and this seems like a good example.
On the other hand, I don't write see what uni presidents can be expected to do about something that is or should clearly be handled by govt authorities.
Maybe a tangent, but the mythology of Satan isn’t associated with any moral or ethical being. Per my understanding of the standard myths around Satan, he wants literal murder and destruction of humanity. I don’t understand why reasonable or serious people (those uninterested in shock tactics) would care about associating themselves with the symbology or character of Satan. Is this any different from associating yourself with any other literal mass murder wanting entity? For example, Church of School Shooters?
I get that the idea is to expose the silliness in organized religion, but associating yourselves with an entity that represents destructive tendencies or desires is equally silly.
I’ve no opinion on the Satan display, it’s just people arguing over symbols. When those symbols prevent someone’s self actualization, then it’s something to worry about.
Some view Satan as a symbol for the rebellion against tyranny and questioning authority. His questioning of the Christian God is admirable in my opinion. Christians seem to use him as a warning for what happens if you question them but I don't see him as a destructive character, quite the opposite in some ways.
Religious people are not all fanatics, or all opposed to the self actualization of others, so adopting symbology that they would find abhorrent does not win favors or friends. In fact, religious zealots get some sort of existential validation by the existence of Church of Satan etc. I think choosing a symbol associated with destructive ideas is not good marketing if you’re aiming for people who aren’t angsty about religion, or biased against people of faith. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to let people be themselves, including have faith. The problem is that we’ve forgotten that separation of faith and state is needed for civil discourse and social harmony.
And that's exactly what they're doing
You're conflating the Church of Satan with The Satanic Temple. Two different things. The latter does not believe in the supernatural.
The problem is that we’ve forgotten that separation of faith and state is needed for civil discourse and social harmony.
This is exactly the main point of TST. To fix this problem.
I don't consider myself a member, despite agreeing with all of their 7 tenets (I challenge you to read them and tell me which you find objectionable), because I'm personally not a fan of all of the baggage associated with "Satan" and Abrahamic religion in general. I don't need all of that just to be a secular humanist or whatever.
That said, I'm glad they exist and I support all of their efforts to try to stop Christian nationalism from taking hold of our country.
Man, you are reeaally over upset by this. Unless you are a hypocrite calling yourself a Christian, they are not calling you out. They are not angsty; they are political progressives fighting against hypocrisy and the force of religion in the public sphere (which is to say, government and schools).
If you truly believe that the problem is we have forgotten the separation between faith and state, you would probably be supportive of them.
I get that the idea is to expose the silliness in organized religion, but associating yourselves with an entity that represents destructive tendencies or desires is equally silly.
Many religions have gods raped and murdered. And we see them all over the place. There's literally a smash hit game called Hades. Holy Hell, we literally named a planet after it.
Okay? So what’s the point? Hades is equally unreasonable for associating with as a rational or civil person. If you want people to think you have good judgment I don’t think associating with symbols that represent murder and destruction makes sense. The problem is that Satan’s myth is all about destruction, whereas the same cannot be said for God. If you’re retconning Satan then that’s a different story I suppose.
I mean, both are about destruction though. If we just go by destruction caused, God kills so, so many more people in the Bible, and significantly more are killed in the name of God to this day. I mean, God's wrath is literally legendary.
I don't think the Satanic Temple really "retcons" much of Satan, it just views them in a different light. Despite the rhetoric, biblical Satan doesn't really do that much outside of angering God by offering free will. As a symbol, he already champions self-determination. Now sure, there's been a lot of biblical fanfic written in the last 2,000 years that has made him into a symbol of destruction, but all that fanfic was written by Catholics, not by the Satanic Temple. Should they really be held responsible for how Satan was portrayed in Milton's Paradise Lost, a completely fictitious image made-up wholesale in 1667?
Well, Satan’s inspiration origin is Zoroastrian, where that entity was thought of as destructive will. There’s nothing inherently interesting about destruction for the sake of it, which is what that entity represents. God OTOH can make claims of being about more than just destruction. That’s the problem. So either retcon Satan or just be okay with being associated with murder symbol.
You're the only one getting upset about this.
Maybe the modern Christian conceptualization of Satan comes from that, but the view is not Biblically supported. And isn't that what's supposed to matter to Christians?
Satanism stems from an enlightenment era conception of Satan, not the medieval.
In the satanic temple's case they also adopt some of the more classic imagery as a way to push against Christianity when it oversteps its bounds. The more grotesque image of satan eorks perfectly for this as it's much easier to show the hypocrisy with than any other I've encountered.
Side note: as far as i know, god is the only character in the bible that already has, and has promised to again destroy the world. Satan (which translates to the accuser or adversary) has mostly just questioned god and tested peoples faith.
So cutting away the popular notions from centuries later actually puts satan in a much more favorable light.
It sounds like you need to actually read up on the history and tenets of The Satanic Temple. The name is ironic, poking fun at the pearl-clutching American Christofascists and calling them out on out their hypocrisy.
You should look into how many people Satan killed in the Bible vs. Yahweh.
What did the serpent do? He never told anyone to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (also, can we stop for a second to recognize how awful it is that god was so against humans learning the difference between good and evil? The fuck??), he just describes it, and Eve eats it. As far as I remember, he never directly tells her to eat it.
Who destroyed all life on earth with a flood (lol right).
Who is the one that slaughtered Job's family, and ruined his life, over a wager? Satan certainly never had that kind of power.
You should look into what the Bible actually has to say about Lucifer/Satan, compared to what your cultural understanding of the character might be.
stop trying to "expose the hypocrisy of the right". that only works if your opponent is beholden to reality and has shame. that's not been what matters to them for over a decade now. you "expose their hypocrisy", and they'll just say "okay" and kill you anyway. they're openly, nakedly terroristic christian ethnonationalists. they believe any evil they commit is good because god is on their side. if this was a chess match, the right has already flipped the board over and pulled out a gun and the left is trying to argue that bishops aren't allowed to move vertically.
Pointing out the hypocrisy is extremely useful for convincing open minded individuals who are listening to the arguement. Specifically the next generation.
The Satanic Temple actually takes action to challenge laws, like when they commissioned a statue of Baphomet to be displayed at the Oklahoma state capitol after a monument of the 10 commandments was installed there. After a court case the monument was removed.
From their website
I met a boomer guy who really thought the Satanic Temple believed in Satan. He wouldn't even hear it.
He was also in a cult for half of his life. Like the "I live in a isolated bunker farm and gave up my passport/social security card" cult.
Not saying they're related. but I am leaning towards anyone who has a negative opinion of the Satanic Temple also being a fucking moron.
I don't remember where, but I saw a debate over the validity of the Satanic Temple. And one uber religious guy said something like "well if you don't believe in an actual Satan who does?"
To which the other guys just deadpan dropped "Christians".
Still don't quite understand what the first guy was going for there.
It's not that easy - I underwent the same kind of brainwashing when I was a kid (I grew up in Apartheid-South Africa) where everything from the peace-symbol to soccer to underwear that wasn't made from 100% cotton was hysterically painted as "satanic..." and I'm being quite literal.
It's difficult to undo all that - no matter how smart you happen to be.
All hail jesus and his angel bahamut
I donated to The Satanic Temple last month and encourage others to do the same. Given that my donation was used exactly as I’d intended (highlighting hypocrisy), I’ll be turning on recurring donations when I get home.
They genuinely do great work, I've always felt my donations are put to good use.
Exposing the right's hypocrisy doesn't really do much. Many of them know but don't care. Many of them don't know but also don't care.
Sartre: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity
Fool proof method for arguing with fascists: apply their logic to them.
They think their beliefs are universal. But the second you characterize them as the out-group of a violent in-group, they'll quickly qualify their statements. Be a rhetorical mirror to their misanthropic, suspicious, hateful worldview.
There was a book about authoritarian personalities I was reading a while ago that was fascinating and depressing. It had a study that showed right wing authoritarians are also willing to hunt down themselves
From this book https://theauthoritarians.org/
So I wouldn't bank on their self awareness
Okay, that's scary
Big ups for Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians. Great book.
May I introduce you to The Alt-Right Playbook
TL;DR: they absolutely do not care.
There is only one party that cares about hypocrisy. And it ain't the conservatives.
The point isn't about getting them to stop, but to help more moderate people realize what they're doing.
As an anarchist, this is why I openly ask, who am I going to punch in the throat next?
That Baphomet statue is so amazingly cool and so lovely - I don't see why anyone would have an issue with it. Religious freedom is protected in this country, no matter what religion or who is practicing it. Satan is also known as the bright Day Star, there is a freedom even greater within the teachings of Satanism than you'll find in any modern "christian" practice; all are welcome. Come in children, come in.
I bought a Baphomet statue on Etsy because of that incident. Sadly, it doesn’t include the kids adoring Baphomet, buts it’s still cool as fuck on the top of my book case. Support an artist and let his loving gaze grace your home today!
Oh that is very cool. I didn't know such a thing was possible! I'll check out Etsy to see if I can find it. I definitely want that! It's the kind of occult art object i'm really into.
Lol I was a Christian fundie when they first unveiled the statue. I found it genuinely terrifying
I've seen many documentaries about this statue and from the first, I found it beautiful and engrossing. But then again, I've never been a christian - my family's pagan roots go back to the very beginning of time. And to honest, I sometimes find "christian" churches and cathedrals "terrifying" in their preservation of a dark-ages kind of sad reverence for spooky dieities and weird rituals. And paintings that are mystifying.
It has been 12 days since I last posted this image
Can you post it more frequently
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞ of course
Thank you for your service!
That's too many words for fascists to understand. You need to make it simpler.
"I have mine, go fuck yourself"
This stunt used to work with the Bush-era (Jr. or Sr.) Republicans. They actually believed in the constitution, they didn't like thinking of themselves as hypocrites. They took pride in having a system of beliefs that was supported by logic. They believed in debates, and thought that their ideas would win.
The MAGA Republicans have clearly abandoned all of that. They don't care about logic. They don't care about the constitution. What matters is their fear. What matters is their interpretation of their religion. What matters is their strongman. It's a fascist movement.
Putting up a satan-inspired display only convinces them that they're right to be afraid, and that they truly are fighting against evil, and that they need their strongman to root out that evil. I still think it's important to push back, even if it only encourages the fascists. But, it's not helpful in the way it used to be when the other side was capable of being embarrassed by hypocrisy.
The bushes stoked fear as well. Remember when they went after the gays? Oh how about blacks getting free from prison? Willie Horton. That's all they know. Hit them as hard as you can with hypocrisy in their face over and over. Then they will learn when something similar happens to them.
But what it also does is force them to allow other religions into their ‘religion can do this-and-that’s bullshit, which they hate.
The GOP is proud of it. Nobody's learned anything.
Hence my donations to the satanic temple. Doing
the Lord'sBaphomet's work!Hail Satan
That's how it's always been with conservatives. Free speech for me, but not for thee. They've been used to suppressing and outright banning anything that doesn't tick their particular boxes for so long that they are in a constant state of rage that they aren't the arbiters of public decency anymore.
Covid was the clear turning point for me.
Watching them protest.
Then beg for help at a hospital while on their death bed. If they survived, they'd only to then trash the hospital afterwards.
Meanwhile, they were out there getting those of us with poor immune systems sick...proudly.
Even a toddler could manage to do that. They don't even try to hide it anymore.
The Satanic Temple does not worship Satan so how are they satanists?
The same way members of the Church of Satan are Satanists. What your probably thinking of is Devil Worship which is different. You can actually go to either of these organizations websites and they should be able to give you a good overview.
I looked after posting. TST refers to themselves as satanic even though worshipping is a part of the core tenets.
Why do these organizations exist?
I don't know about the Church of Satan, but the TST exists to mock religion, expose the hypocrisies of the religious, and promote human rights.
From their tenants, they exist for a bit more than that. Their tenants are all about self empowerment.
Yeah, I was oversimplifying a bit.
Tenets*
Because they piss off the snowflakes
That makes sense
Why does any club exist?
I don't have anything against it, just wondering about their motives.
Like another comment said, your best source is going to be their own websites. But from an outsider's perspective, their motive seems to be taking the good ideas from the Abrahamic religions (love your neighbor, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, etc) and replacing some of their worse tendencies (close-minded devotion to YOUR interpretation of God and anything less will send you to Hell) with their polar opposites: "Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world" (Tenet V from The Satanic Temple's website)
Why should Christians have a monopoly on fellowship and community? TST can be a secular, humanist way for people to be part of a community without all the baggage of religion and dogmatic thought.
They shouldn't, nor any religion should. Again, I don't have anything against it I just wanted to know how it formed and what are it's beliefs, most religion have a god or some shit I just asked what are theirs.
See the post you're commenting on for clarification.
Do you have any idea how many variations of Christianity there are? Do you question why there are so many? Or variations of Islam? Or Buddhism?
It's just a silly question.
I don't know them all but I know a few. Yes I do question why there so many and it most likely has to do with money, power or some idealistic bullshit. Again, I have nothing against the organization I was just wondering abouttheirr beliefs
Wtf u mean why? Lmao
The same way that most Americans say "praise Jesus", I guess. Sure, the latter case might actually believe in Jesus, but they're not worshiping him according to his beliefs.
The satanic Temple is the same in reverse: they don't believe in Satan, but they believe hat following certain tenets make you a better person.
Edit: On a related note, I look forward to the day that voice to text can handle such "complicated" words as "tenets". FFS.
Don't try to apply logic to religion. You'll never get anywhere.
No u
The Satanic Temple really showing how stupid people really are.
Well. It's Tuesday.
ive been hailing satan since it became cool in the 1980s
I don't understand the part about not censoring calls for genocide. I feel like calling for the death of a group of people should not be covered under free speech. There's obviously a limit to free speech and this seems like a good example.
On the other hand, I don't write see what uni presidents can be expected to do about something that is or should clearly be handled by govt authorities.
Maybe a tangent, but the mythology of Satan isn’t associated with any moral or ethical being. Per my understanding of the standard myths around Satan, he wants literal murder and destruction of humanity. I don’t understand why reasonable or serious people (those uninterested in shock tactics) would care about associating themselves with the symbology or character of Satan. Is this any different from associating yourself with any other literal mass murder wanting entity? For example, Church of School Shooters?
I get that the idea is to expose the silliness in organized religion, but associating yourselves with an entity that represents destructive tendencies or desires is equally silly.
I’ve no opinion on the Satan display, it’s just people arguing over symbols. When those symbols prevent someone’s self actualization, then it’s something to worry about.
Some view Satan as a symbol for the rebellion against tyranny and questioning authority. His questioning of the Christian God is admirable in my opinion. Christians seem to use him as a warning for what happens if you question them but I don't see him as a destructive character, quite the opposite in some ways.
Religious people are not all fanatics, or all opposed to the self actualization of others, so adopting symbology that they would find abhorrent does not win favors or friends. In fact, religious zealots get some sort of existential validation by the existence of Church of Satan etc. I think choosing a symbol associated with destructive ideas is not good marketing if you’re aiming for people who aren’t angsty about religion, or biased against people of faith. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to let people be themselves, including have faith. The problem is that we’ve forgotten that separation of faith and state is needed for civil discourse and social harmony.
And that's exactly what they're doing
You're conflating the Church of Satan with The Satanic Temple. Two different things. The latter does not believe in the supernatural.
This is exactly the main point of TST. To fix this problem.
I don't consider myself a member, despite agreeing with all of their 7 tenets (I challenge you to read them and tell me which you find objectionable), because I'm personally not a fan of all of the baggage associated with "Satan" and Abrahamic religion in general. I don't need all of that just to be a secular humanist or whatever.
That said, I'm glad they exist and I support all of their efforts to try to stop Christian nationalism from taking hold of our country.
Man, you are reeaally over upset by this. Unless you are a hypocrite calling yourself a Christian, they are not calling you out. They are not angsty; they are political progressives fighting against hypocrisy and the force of religion in the public sphere (which is to say, government and schools).
If you truly believe that the problem is we have forgotten the separation between faith and state, you would probably be supportive of them.
Many religions have gods raped and murdered. And we see them all over the place. There's literally a smash hit game called Hades. Holy Hell, we literally named a planet after it.
Okay? So what’s the point? Hades is equally unreasonable for associating with as a rational or civil person. If you want people to think you have good judgment I don’t think associating with symbols that represent murder and destruction makes sense. The problem is that Satan’s myth is all about destruction, whereas the same cannot be said for God. If you’re retconning Satan then that’s a different story I suppose.
I mean, both are about destruction though. If we just go by destruction caused, God kills so, so many more people in the Bible, and significantly more are killed in the name of God to this day. I mean, God's wrath is literally legendary.
I don't think the Satanic Temple really "retcons" much of Satan, it just views them in a different light. Despite the rhetoric, biblical Satan doesn't really do that much outside of angering God by offering free will. As a symbol, he already champions self-determination. Now sure, there's been a lot of biblical fanfic written in the last 2,000 years that has made him into a symbol of destruction, but all that fanfic was written by Catholics, not by the Satanic Temple. Should they really be held responsible for how Satan was portrayed in Milton's Paradise Lost, a completely fictitious image made-up wholesale in 1667?
Well, Satan’s inspiration origin is Zoroastrian, where that entity was thought of as destructive will. There’s nothing inherently interesting about destruction for the sake of it, which is what that entity represents. God OTOH can make claims of being about more than just destruction. That’s the problem. So either retcon Satan or just be okay with being associated with murder symbol.
You're the only one getting upset about this.
Maybe the modern Christian conceptualization of Satan comes from that, but the view is not Biblically supported. And isn't that what's supposed to matter to Christians?
Satanism stems from an enlightenment era conception of Satan, not the medieval. In the satanic temple's case they also adopt some of the more classic imagery as a way to push against Christianity when it oversteps its bounds. The more grotesque image of satan eorks perfectly for this as it's much easier to show the hypocrisy with than any other I've encountered.
Side note: as far as i know, god is the only character in the bible that already has, and has promised to again destroy the world. Satan (which translates to the accuser or adversary) has mostly just questioned god and tested peoples faith. So cutting away the popular notions from centuries later actually puts satan in a much more favorable light.
It sounds like you need to actually read up on the history and tenets of The Satanic Temple. The name is ironic, poking fun at the pearl-clutching American Christofascists and calling them out on out their hypocrisy.
You should look into how many people Satan killed in the Bible vs. Yahweh.
Spoiler alert: Satan: 0, god: countless (several genocides).
What did the serpent do? He never told anyone to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (also, can we stop for a second to recognize how awful it is that god was so against humans learning the difference between good and evil? The fuck??), he just describes it, and Eve eats it. As far as I remember, he never directly tells her to eat it.
Who destroyed all life on earth with a flood (lol right).
Who is the one that slaughtered Job's family, and ruined his life, over a wager? Satan certainly never had that kind of power.
You should look into what the Bible actually has to say about Lucifer/Satan, compared to what your cultural understanding of the character might be.
😭