Once the Abrahamic Religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) became huge. It's all about "Women are evil sluts who do nothing but sin and tempt the good and pious men", it's pretty evident in modern societies that have large populations of people that follow these religions.
The correct answer has three upvotes, and Victorian era rises to the top. Well, at least you have 4 upvotes now.
I feel like it has to be much more complicated than this. Sure they influenced the culture but a lot of polytheistic cultures seemed to also have coverings
Victorian England is responsible for most of our annoying modesty rules. As to why... I'm not certain, they were just fucking prudes.
Women have been covering their breasts for modesty for ~5,000 years, not 150. Used as a means of identifying which women are “respectable” and which women are “publicly available” to men, upper class women in ancient Mesopotamia were made to wear veils that were wrapped loosely over their hair and fell to their waists, but poorer women were not allowed, and faced harsh punishments if they dared to wear them.
When your wealth system is nothing but cruel unfairness you always need somewhere else to point a finger, that somewhere was boobs.
Today it’s immigrants and trans people.
Well said.
modesty codes have predated Victorian England by a vast margin.
in fact... by some standards, VE was positively hedonistic. there are cultures where a woman seen un-escorted by her husband would be murdered for it. can you imagine what would have happened if the iranian girls protesting a hijab instead decided to flash people? those laws predates victorian england by quite a lot.
Sure, but modern puritanicalism can mostly be drawn back to Victorian England.
in the US; sure. but the "need" to cover up... is common across most of Eurasia and predates England, never mind victorian england.
every culture has some question of modesty- showing different things might be considered immodest. IIRC, in certain parts of Africa it's calves that were considered the sexy bits. Which... caused friction when a woman missionary was lecturing on modesty. She was, of course, showing calves. and made sure to give the women t shirts (which promptly came back the next day with holes cut in because they got in the way of breastfeeding.) (it was then also explained that the men were all there because... sexy calves.)
Victorian England is responsible for most of our annoying modesty rules.
Yeah, it's why people still avoid showing any skin at all, why women still wear corsets, and why we still wear ridiculously large hats.
And then we just never changed from then.
Hey, man, don't shit on my corsets and hats.
It’s a conspiracy by Big Dairy to keep us udderly focused.
My Holstein brings all the boys to the yard...
I have been told that the taste of breast milk makes you want to hurt yourself, so Big Dairy is doing us all a favor with that one, honestly.
I am more concerned with minimalism being a scheme by Big Small to sell us more less.
I see people blaming "Victorian England" for modesty, as if Full Female only Body and Face veiling hasn't been prevalent since before the Byzantine Empire
"Blame England" is basically the "Blame Canada!" of history discussions.
It varies by culture, but the short explanation is "Victorian morality".
Where?
There's more than a few countries even in Western Europe where women can go topless in public.
Depending on where you're talking about, there's lots of different answers including "they don't"
Can but it's still not normal or typical.
In Spain, nudity is a constitutionally guaranteed human right - that's a stark difference compared to America and voyeuristic spying is considered a crime entirely on the peeper and not on the person having their privacy violated.
Right, but it's not normal outside of beaches.
You're correct, you won't find topless women wandering around city streets - but a woman may feel comfortable hanging up their laundry topless or being topless in their home near windows. In some parts of the US and Canada you can actually be fines for casual nudity if some asshole judge deemed it exhibitionist.
It's actually becoming less normal in a lot of places since every creep has a smartphone with a camera these days. Women have found their pictures or filmclips back on the internet, which was not the reason for going topless.
Also, it's been allowed in the last 50 - 60 years for most countries, not so much before.
Women can go topless in public in most of Canada and the US too, they just don't most of the time.
In North America you can expect verbal or physical assault for going topless. There's very much a culture of "She was asking for it".
Common saying about sexuality where I live, "A woman should cover herself. A man's going to be a man!" By man, I mean creep, but that's not how most people, including women, feel, even though it's literally creepy/pervy/and sexual assault.
I walked my dog past a church yesterday, baggy jeans and tee, and a guy who was letting himself in asked how I was and if I was behaving. I said I was fine and always behave. He literally leered so hard at me when he said I was having no fun that I couldn't get home fast enough.
USA? Where I live, breastfeeding can get a public indecency charge.
Even though it's just a text post, I can hear your disappointment.
Once all the boomers die, y'all can hang out topless wherever you want. Everybody else is cool with it.
men realized that women can cast spells with those thing, so we forced you to hide them
AS A MAN I KNOW it's when I got chubby and because I don't like air on my nipples.
Maybe when wars started over them?
I blame the uptight protestants who needed a severe moral code or something.
Also, for a time period, in some tropical places bare breasts supposedly meant a prostitute was working.
I think that in Korea, up to the early 20th century, women of age were topless to show they weren't married. Covered up meant they were no longer free? Need a source on it for specifics if anyone cares to search.
And it was in an African tribe i think that the opposite happened. Bare breasts meant a mother that was actively breastfeeding.
It's all foggy memories though, so accuracy is low.
It's probably to keep prices high.
I'd guess since about the first civilized settlements with agriculture.
Once the Abrahamic Religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) became huge. It's all about "Women are evil sluts who do nothing but sin and tempt the good and pious men", it's pretty evident in modern societies that have large populations of people that follow these religions.
The correct answer has three upvotes, and Victorian era rises to the top. Well, at least you have 4 upvotes now.
I feel like it has to be much more complicated than this. Sure they influenced the culture but a lot of polytheistic cultures seemed to also have coverings
Victorian England is responsible for most of our annoying modesty rules. As to why... I'm not certain, they were just fucking prudes.
Women have been covering their breasts for modesty for ~5,000 years, not 150. Used as a means of identifying which women are “respectable” and which women are “publicly available” to men, upper class women in ancient Mesopotamia were made to wear veils that were wrapped loosely over their hair and fell to their waists, but poorer women were not allowed, and faced harsh punishments if they dared to wear them.
When your wealth system is nothing but cruel unfairness you always need somewhere else to point a finger, that somewhere was boobs.
Today it’s immigrants and trans people.
Well said.
modesty codes have predated Victorian England by a vast margin.
in fact... by some standards, VE was positively hedonistic. there are cultures where a woman seen un-escorted by her husband would be murdered for it. can you imagine what would have happened if the iranian girls protesting a hijab instead decided to flash people? those laws predates victorian england by quite a lot.
Sure, but modern puritanicalism can mostly be drawn back to Victorian England.
in the US; sure. but the "need" to cover up... is common across most of Eurasia and predates England, never mind victorian england.
every culture has some question of modesty- showing different things might be considered immodest. IIRC, in certain parts of Africa it's calves that were considered the sexy bits. Which... caused friction when a woman missionary was lecturing on modesty. She was, of course, showing calves. and made sure to give the women t shirts (which promptly came back the next day with holes cut in because they got in the way of breastfeeding.) (it was then also explained that the men were all there because... sexy calves.)
Yeah, it's why people still avoid showing any skin at all, why women still wear corsets, and why we still wear ridiculously large hats.
And then we just never changed from then.
Hey, man, don't shit on my corsets and hats.
It’s a conspiracy by Big Dairy to keep us udderly focused.
My Holstein brings all the boys to the yard...
I have been told that the taste of breast milk makes you want to hurt yourself, so Big Dairy is doing us all a favor with that one, honestly.
I am more concerned with minimalism being a scheme by Big Small to sell us more less.
I see people blaming "Victorian England" for modesty, as if Full Female only Body and Face veiling hasn't been prevalent since before the Byzantine Empire
"Blame England" is basically the "Blame Canada!" of history discussions.
It varies by culture, but the short explanation is "Victorian morality".
Where?
There's more than a few countries even in Western Europe where women can go topless in public.
Depending on where you're talking about, there's lots of different answers including "they don't"
Can but it's still not normal or typical.
In Spain, nudity is a constitutionally guaranteed human right - that's a stark difference compared to America and voyeuristic spying is considered a crime entirely on the peeper and not on the person having their privacy violated.
Right, but it's not normal outside of beaches.
You're correct, you won't find topless women wandering around city streets - but a woman may feel comfortable hanging up their laundry topless or being topless in their home near windows. In some parts of the US and Canada you can actually be fines for casual nudity if some asshole judge deemed it exhibitionist.
It's actually becoming less normal in a lot of places since every creep has a smartphone with a camera these days. Women have found their pictures or filmclips back on the internet, which was not the reason for going topless.
Also, it's been allowed in the last 50 - 60 years for most countries, not so much before.
Women can go topless in public in most of Canada and the US too, they just don't most of the time.
In North America you can expect verbal or physical assault for going topless. There's very much a culture of "She was asking for it".
Common saying about sexuality where I live, "A woman should cover herself. A man's going to be a man!" By man, I mean creep, but that's not how most people, including women, feel, even though it's literally creepy/pervy/and sexual assault.
I walked my dog past a church yesterday, baggy jeans and tee, and a guy who was letting himself in asked how I was and if I was behaving. I said I was fine and always behave. He literally leered so hard at me when he said I was having no fun that I couldn't get home fast enough.
USA? Where I live, breastfeeding can get a public indecency charge.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Female_toplessness_laws_in_the_United_States_by_State_and_Territory.svg/320px-Female_toplessness_laws_in_the_United_States_by_State_and_Territory.svg.png
Sadly, you’ve linked the thumbnail.
NSFW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_toplessness_in_the_United_States NSFW
Here's the article, sorry about that.
Tell us about the ones you know about
Even though it's just a text post, I can hear your disappointment.
Once all the boomers die, y'all can hang out topless wherever you want. Everybody else is cool with it.
men realized that women can cast spells with those thing, so we forced you to hide them
AS A MAN I KNOW it's when I got chubby and because I don't like air on my nipples.
Maybe when wars started over them?
I blame the uptight protestants who needed a severe moral code or something.
Also, for a time period, in some tropical places bare breasts supposedly meant a prostitute was working.
I think that in Korea, up to the early 20th century, women of age were topless to show they weren't married. Covered up meant they were no longer free? Need a source on it for specifics if anyone cares to search.
And it was in an African tribe i think that the opposite happened. Bare breasts meant a mother that was actively breastfeeding.
It's all foggy memories though, so accuracy is low.
It's probably to keep prices high.
I'd guess since about the first civilized settlements with agriculture.