Linux Mint is by far the most popular for noobs on older hardware, has a clean if simple interface, and will run on tiny amounts of RAM, so if you have no other suggestions and don't know much about Linux, I'd say start there.
Linux Mint is not Ubuntu, but based on it, so there's a lot of support. As a Windows and Mac user I found the Linux Mint "Cinnamon" desktop environment easy enough to navigate, it's solid in terms of broad hardware support, and there are a LOT of resources if you have questions, want to watch a tutorial, or need a helping hand, all pluses for a noob. (And I don't think I had to touch the command line once, when I had it installed: bonus.)
But the cool thing is that most Linux distros have a "LiveUSB" install, meaning that you can load the .iso of your choice onto a 4GB USB drive, boot off the USB, and take the hardware for a spin without installing anything. LiveUSB means you can try as many distros as you like until you get tired of making USB drives, and all for free.
Somebody else here suggested "Ubuntu" to you without saying another word about it, but there's a lot more to it than that. You still have to pick a desktop environment, for example, and while there's nothing wrong with plain Ubuntu, I honestly don't think that's the most user-friendly distro you could start with.
Try it, see if you like it. Most distros are completely free, including Ubuntu. But if you're just looking at finding ONE to start with, again, try Linux Mint: it's popular for Linux noobs for a reason, it's stable, and even if you find you don't like it, it's a great place to dip your toe in and see how Linux works for you personally.
I agree with every point you make except for the desktop environment front end.
While it is nice to install a distro with a given desktop environment OOTB, you can always change it, and even have multiple ones installed at the same time. This is typically a better approach to testing out desktop environments because you don't have to reinstall every time.
I am testing both, so for me a mix of both is best.
While it is nice to install a distro with a given desktop environment OOTB, you can always change it, and even have multiple ones installed at the same time.
This is true for Debian, but not for many others. Even Fedora ships with preloaded DE "spins" now. And changing it post-install requires more than beginner level knowledge, specific to that OS. For someone coming over to Linux directly from Windows/Mac, that's not really feasible upfront.
If you just need a general purpose desktop and it's your your first time, I would suggest just picking a popular and stable one with lots of documentation like Debian, Mint or Ubuntu.
I'm leaning towards Debian myself. I don't like the direction Ubuntu (mint is essentially Ubuntu too) is going. Ubuntu is ran by a for profit company, and it is only going to get worse after snaps.
From what I've read Debian is about as new user friendly as Ubuntu is.
Yeah I would definitely choose Debian in that case. Enjoy :)
As someone who switched a year ago and started from Debian - yes, it absolutely is beginner-friendly)
How's the gaming support on debian?
I only play Team Fortress 2, and it runs with no issues) But when it comes to normally-windows games, people say it's mostly fine. Haven't yet tried myself though.
Fedora saved my old Windows laptop and it was a pretty smooth switch from Windows for me (though I had a bit of Linux experience). That thing became quicker than when I first bought it haha.
Choose a variation of Mint. They have a lighter weight build that is perfect for older hardware just read their site. Mint operates and feels extremely close to w7 and its easy to use! Promise you'll like it
Ignore all the “this distro is the best”
Just use Ubuntu to start until you know what you wish was different
I agree with the first part but Ubuntu is pretty much the worst distro you can recommend.
It’s what proprietary software tends to target, so for someone just coming from Windows, it’s a decent first choice.
OpenSUSE/Fedora don’t support media codecs without knowing you need to add Packman/RPMFusion
Debian just released Bookworm, so it might be an okay recommendation for now, but as a general rule it’s probably not the best first distro
For someone used to Windows staying the same for years, jumping straight to a rolling release like Arch or its derivatives is a massive change
NixOS is too much configuration for a first time user
Linux Mint is maybe a better first recommendation, but it’s still downstream of Ubuntu (I wouldn’t recommend LMDE for a first time Linux user)
Your response is exactly why people find it so difficult to pick a distro to start. Ubuntu may not be the perfect distro for you or I, but there’s a decent reason it’s one of the biggest, and it has conservative defaults
Until that user knows what things bother them about it or what more they need, we’d just go back and forth all day about upsides and downsides of each distro
Why wait, do it now.
Because Linux is a giant pain in the ass for anyone who is not a software engineer.
In what way?
In the way that you will be expected to memorize a plethora of commands that you then type into a text-based interface the same way you would have with Windows DOS in 1998.
Linux does have desktop environments.
No shit. It doesn't matter because any type of troubleshooting and most installations require you to dive into the CLI or download an appimage, open the properties and select an executable. This is not remotely intuitive. I mean I could go on and on and on with this but anyone who uses Linux knows it already. I just don't understand why they can't see how incredibly unintuitive the entire system is, with seemingly no plans to make it easier.
That's a lot like how on windows you have to download a zip and open it to select an executable.
I think it depends on what you're trying to do. Normal stuff like web browsing, email and working with documents is fine. For example, my partner has been running her business from a Linux laptop for the last year or so and I don't think she ever touches the terminal.
It's not that it's unintuitive at all if you pick a simple distro, it's just slightly different from Windows which has been shoved in your face throughout your entire education and career.
Yes there is some small amount of learning involved, but there are many Linux distros nowadays that are setup for ease of use and require no CLI knowledge or use from the user. There are many desktop environments that mimic Windows versions to make the switch pretty seamless, too.
If you first tried Linux many years ago, I could understand you saying that it's unintuitive, but nowadays that just isn't the case.
I'd like to add that you should just pick the OS you prefer. I'm not one of those needs that look down on anyone who chooses to use Windows over Linux. I personally have both on my machine because games. I just wanted to clarify that it isn't unintuitive at all, just different than what you were forced to learn in school.
it's just slightly different from Windows
No. It is not "slightly different". In my 30 years of using Windows I have never used the CLI, which you have to use on a regular basis on Linux to complete basic tasks. I detailed this example elsewhere. There's absolutely nothing intuitive about the CLI.
You don't have to really use the CLI on the simpler Linux distros nowadays is what I am getting at. Mint and Ubuntu for instance. My grandparents use Mint, and believe me, they don't know what the terminal is.
Also, windows installers run Command Prompt stuff in the background. You are basically doing the same process but clicking buttons to setup a CLI command. They are more similar than you think.
You are just used to the GUI way of doing things, and you can get by fine on Linux nowadays. If you were forced to learn Linux growing up, you would think Windows was the unintuitive OS.
I'm not trying to convince you one is better than the other, just telling you that it is not unintuitive.
You don't have to really use the CLI on the simpler Linux distros nowadays
Yes. You do.
You are basically doing the same process but clicking buttons to setup a CLI command
How do you not realize how clicking a bunch of sensibly-labeled buttons is one thousand times easier and more intuitive than memorizing a library of commands and when and how to use them?
I'm just telling you that it is not unintuitive.
And I'm just telling you that you're wrong.
No you don't have to use the CLI on Linux at all You are just wrong about that. Modern Mint and Ubuntu come with completely GUI driven package managers for installing and updating. It hasn't always been like this but it is now.
The only reason you would have to use the CLI is if you are doing some power user stuff that you would have to do on CLI or powershell in windows, as well.
You do realize this is just your opinion and not a fact. Your opinion is that is unintuitive. My opinion is that it is not, its literally impossible to be wrong here. I can find tons of people who think Windows way of doing things is more unintuitive. The only fact here is that neither of them actually are unintuitive in reality. People just have preferences and biases because of what they are used to.
You sound awfully close minded and angry for some reason too.
I think it depends, I guess you "just" need the right distro and compatible hardware (e.g. a Thinkpad). I started as a complete Linux noob too, but most problems I encountered I could easily solve in no time because a lot of things are nicely documented or someone else had them before and documented their solution on the internet. But depending on your usecase and other factors I understand Linux can be a pain in the ass.
Mainstream distros are just as easy to use as windows or MacOS.
As a Linux user I mostly agree...
... until you try to play any competitive multiplayer game and wonder why any anticheat doesn't work or flags your system and account.
Nowadays I use my Windows 10 mostly for games and video editing.
EAC depending on the title works out of the box from what I've seen, I don't have much time these days to play many competitive shooters or games in general but Battlebit and PlanetSide look to work fine through proton.
Let me tell you a little story about yesterday:
My Signal app on Linux keeps crashing. I write to them for support. They suggest I install the Beta version. Why would they suggest I install a version that openly state is "for users who do not mind discontinuity in service and are willing to work with us to understand and test issues." to fix an issue, I haven't the slightest, but I take a look regardless.
"To install on MacOS, download and install this file"
"To install on Windows, download and install the file"
"To install on Linux open a terminal and copy and paste these commands".
So I open the terminal and copy and paste the commands and I get some generic error message I don't understand and now I...fuck off because I'm not a software engineer and don't know how to fix this shit. That's before even getting into the 2 other commands I'm supposed to run that I don't understand what they are or what they do.
My ProtonVPN client on Linux is incredibly basic and unstable, and has been for many years while the Windows client is beautiful and functions perfectly in the background with zero interaction.
People who think Linux is fine for the general public are, frankly, delusional. I don't have another word to explain how you can be under that impression.
You make a fair point. ProtonVPN was a nightmare for me to set up and get working too but I think that's Proton's fault more than Linux's. I have many other applications that I simply installed with one click from the Software application and then have never needed to touch again. It seems not all app developers are equally motivated to make their stuff easy to run.
I think that's Proton's fault more than Linux
To the end user, it doesn't matter.
It seems not all app developers are equally motivated to make their stuff easy to run.
Yes, that is the point. Many developers don't care to rewrite their software for the 1% of people that daily drive Linux .
I agree. Still, I can't help but expect better from Proton.
Oh yeah 100%. You would think a company built on privacy and security would have better support for the most private and secure OS.
There's still a lot of little things that are still a pain for someone who doesn't know how things work. Many are not the OS' fault but still, different experiences.
For example, say you're running discord. Next week there's a discord update, it'll not apply the update automatically, it'll only download a deb file. An user familiar with windows may try to open the deb file... And it'll launch the package manager, but the only option available is to uninstall. In order to install the update you'll need the terminal.
There are a lot of little things like this. This one is just something you need to learn, but others are a real pita when you have no experience.
And if you have a 4k screen and Nvidia gpu when you try Linux for the first time, I guarantee you're going to hate the experience.
My new hardware is literally incompatible with Windows 11. They're doing me a kindness I don't want all this AI shit on my PC
Excuses.
Haha, I had a partition on my pc for the longest time to put Linux on it. But I do a lot of game dev stuff, so I've been reluctant to switch from windows.
Switch to Linux! If nothing else, run stuff with wine and most things will work seamlessly
Real question. Is gaming (not game dev) significantly better than it was 5 years ago on Linux? I really want to switch, but I also really don't want to give up everything "just working" and doing it smoothly when gaming on windows.
I've even considered having 2 PC's for my 4 monitors, and having the middle monitor run windows and the other 3 on a Linux box. I used to use a program that could simulate my mouse moving from one pc to an entirely different one even across windows and Linux, and also share the clipboard. I could try that again.
But if the gaming experience is sufficient and convenient on Linux I might switch entirely.
It's vastly better than it was 5 years ago. You can get an idea by going to protondb.com and looking at games. Basically, most games work out of the box with minimal to no issues. Even most new games work on release without major issues.
The biggest issue is anti-cheat and DRM. That can be a show stopped for some users, but for me it hasn't been an issue.
I switched full time to Linux about 3 months ago, I had been wanting to for a long time since I prefer dev work on Linux and generally hate Windows.
Gaming is nearly as easy on Linux as on windows, especially through steam imo. Almost all games will work right out of the box, just set steam to use proton for any non linux-natve games and it does it. The only game I've had an issue with is cyberpunk 2077, and that was fixed with a few minutes of googling, then pasting a launch config into the settings, now it runs perfectly. One thing to watch out for, no games that use a kernal-level anticheat will work on Linux unless they specifically support it, sucky but those anticheat software makers are coming around to support it slowly.
I actually prefer installing software on Linux to doing it on Windows. Same process for finding software, just Google it and look for stuff that works on Linux. Even proprietary stuff runs natively on Linux sometimes, I personally look for free and open source software as an alternative every time and it usually is better imo. Once you find what you want, it's super easy to install. No need to deal with downloading files, clicking them to install, and all that jazz. Just open a terminal and do "yay -S {package name}" and it'll install. Also makes it very easy to install multiple things at once, especially if you already know what software you want. Cherry on top, updates aren't forced on you. You can update all of your packages with "yay -Syu", or update individual ones if you want, there's a lot of control over it, and you don't need to rely on the app to have its own update tool.
Sometimes there's windows specific software that isn't on Linux, it kind of sucks, but almost everytime I'm able to find free and open source software that's natively Linux compatible and is better than the closed source software I initially wanted. Even with windows-specific software, most things can be run with wine and work just like a native Linux app. Sometimes things don't work on wine, but basically all of them will have free and open source alternatives you can use instead, or there are workarounds that are probably easy to find.
If you wanted to do the 2 PC's you definitely can, I would recommend one PC and just add a Linux partition or hard drive, you then boot into Windows or Linux but don't need a whole new PC. You have to reboot to go between them, but you can access each systems files from the other one (can't run games, but like documents and such). If you do go with 2 PC's though, I recommend using an app called Barrier for the mouse/keyboard sharing. I use it between my PC (Linux) and my work laptop (windows) and it's great, my work laptop stays folded up and I have only one mouse and keyboard on my desk.
I'll look into barrier, thanks. I work in the gaming industry (from home, on my own pc) and so I am constantly running games and doing non-gaming tasks on and off so dual booting is not really an option for me. I often need to do normal tasks while games are running too. Which is why I wanted that 2 pc setup I mentioned above.
However I think I might dual boot just to try Linux out with gaming for now (I have a spare ssd I can use to keep it simple) since I see a lot of people saying it's pretty good now. Then if it works out I can just transition to only Linux.
If you have the money for a second PC then I see no reason not to do it. If you want to use the same PC, you can also very easily make a windows virtual machine to do windows specific work in if you have something that doesn't work with wine for whatever reason. A vm won't be able to play the kernal monitoring anticheat games as far as I know, but any miscellaneous programs that may not like or run well on wine can be run there if needed
I have a 64bit Mac that can't play 32bit Steam games anymore (which is all of them). I'm thinking of switching to Linux specifically for games. What you're saying so I could play whatever on Linux via steam? And Steam isn't a massive pain in the ass to install and configure like it used to be?? Holy shit, that's game changing. Pun intended.
Is Master Chief Collection on Steam? That would be amazing since the only instance of Windows I had decided to change it's own password and essentially lock me out.
Yep! Idk if the apple architecture caused any issues but I highly doubt it. At least on arch Linux it's as easy as "sudo pacman -S steam". It has some dependencies obviously, but after that it'll be installed and you can sign in easy peasy. It'll install proton through the steam downloader too, the only setting you even need to change is steam > settings > compatibility > Enable Steam Play for all other titles; run with proton experimental.
Master chief collection is on steam, and is playable with proton
Dammnn you just made my day! I'm not using my Mac for that. It doesn't have enough storage space on a good day. I have a Windows 10 computer that decided to change it's own password that I'll erase and put Linux on.
Do you have any recommendations on Linux OS? Right now I'm using Fedora but it seems like there are better options out there, especially if playing games.
Avoid Ubuntu, it uses flatpak. Besides that it's really personal preference. I personally love endeavouros, very easy installation process and a lot of desktop environments to choose from. Comes with some helpful initial setup tools too. It's arch Linux based and there's a ton of resources for arch too, but arch does come with a learning curve. Backups are your friend
That's what a lot of Linux people miss. They've been dealing with it for a while already so a lot of them are like "it's so easy!" and then they have to start explaing repos and containers to people and the person just sticks to Windows.
Linux won't capture the users until it can handle an idiot as well as Windows.
I have two hard drives. One dedicated to each Windows and Linux. It maies life easier.
If you play a lot of competitive multiplayer games, it would be better to keep a windows partition for them (overwatch is the only game that I had a good experience on Linux).
I used to play some competitive Apex, I was overjoyed when I heard anti cheat support is available on Linux, and quickly installed it. I tried it a couple of times since then, the most recent being last month - The game is playable but not on a competitive level imho. The smoothness is just not there. Then again this might be because of my low spec hardware.
Games like Valorant just won't work because of their kernel level anticheat. (But hey we have Conter-Strike 2 now)
AAA games run just fine for the most part, its playable and I usually get performance similar to windows.
The steam deck uses a custom Linux distro made by valve specifically for it. So it's at least good enough for gaming that valve trusted it for their mainstream handled gaming PC.
I've got one and tbh it's pretty good. As long as you stick to games that are rated as either verified or playable on steamdeck you'll probably have a good time.
You've made me remember that quite not long ago I wanted to play on Linux (precisely on Mint, but I've also tried pop os), and I had three results:
1 - Game not even trying to launch/wine error (usually related to graphics) (did happen once or twice, tested few games): Factorio, without magic wine parameters and magic overall
2 - Game runs, but graphical glitches makes it unplayable: Factorio after tweaks
3 - Game running fine, fps lower or equal than on windows: Minecraft, Kerbal space program
(Yes, now I know Factorio also had Linux version, but it's too late for that)
So while it may be playable for some 9999 IQ rice master couch-looking moderator after just touching the demon named Wine, I don't have the brains, patience or time tweaking every little parameter/environmental vars/wine prefixes on top of each other to make a game play at 2 fps. It also didn't help that when trying to resolve apt conflicts, Mint just killed itself (looking at you aptitude). My overall experience of Linux isn't bad, it may be good for customization masters, but for me, which would like having things "just working", and maybe after that some trial and error tweaks, Windows is closer to that wish. Although when MS forces W11 onto me, I'm jumpshipping to Linux, no matter how shitty my UX is (at least I hope so)
Edit: forgot that there is markdown, formating fix
Edit2: bad brain, missing word fix
Honestly that is a pretty awful experience. Proton is infinitely better for games than wine in my opinion though, I definitely recommend giving it another try. I have a good 20 games on steam from AAA to indie, the only one to have any issues was cyberpunk 2077 and even that was a simple launch command fix that I found in a couple minutes of googling the problem and it runs fine now.
I admittedly haven't dealt with wine too much since most games can be run with proton and I avoid programs that don't support Linux, but I was able to run heavily modded Minecraft at basically the same fps as on windows with no wine tweaking. Lutris is also a good platform that can make installing non-steam games much easier
If you want a good os to try instead of jumping ship at random, I'd recommend grabbing endeavour os and picking whatever desktop environment you like on top of it, all of their stuff looks good right out of the box and gets you a lot of the necessities. Any of their official desktop environments (except i3) are super easy to use and should be familiar to windows users, I'm a strong believer in arch superiority because if there's a problem, someone else has already fixed it and you can steal their solution even though there is a learning curve to customizing it
Proton is incredibly simple to use, and gaming on Linux is pretty seamless for like 3/4+ of games now. Including Factorio.
Minecraft and other java apps actually run better on Linux because of the way the scheduler works, something wasn't right with your system.
Oh cool, I didn't realize that was a thing. If I can run Unreal Engine on Linux, that's pretty much the only thing stopping me from switching.
Yep! Quick search turns this up, looks like you don't even need wine for it which is even better.
Wine basically let's you run windows-only software on Linux by making a directory that emulates windows, installs needed dependencies, etc. Most windows programs can be run smoothly using wine in my experience, the main ones that can't are games with kernal-level anticheat. If you've heard of Proton, that's valves fork of wine that they've built up specifically for games
I have heard of Proton. Just didn't realize it was for gaming. Thanks for the info! I'm seriously thinking about switching now. Just gotta figure out what to do with all my current game repository on windows.
You could get a second hard drive and install Linux on that so you can boot into either, you can also access the files on your Windows drive from Linux (and vice versa) so you can grab the files if needed. If by game repositories you mean GitHub repos you can also just clone those down to the Linux one too
Some of them are github repos, others are not version controlled. But good to know, didn't even think about re-cloning them.
You can also transfer those files to the Linux partition directly, your file browser will (or at least should) be able to find your Windows drive or partition and let you browse all the files there, it's easy to then drag them to a folder on the Linux side and get them copied over
Me too !! Been loving Ubuntu the last couple of months. Had very few issues other than one time my Gui stopped working and it would only boot into terminal, if anyone knows how to fix that it would be great incase it happens again . Last time I just did a fresh install.
similarly, I've removed Microsoft from my system.
Probably a good move on your part. When they try to force windows 11 on me, that's when I will be moving to Linux.
Why wait, do it now.
I jumped ship to Linux when Win 7 died, cause I'd rather be fucked by a rusty fencepost than be forced to use 10, and 11 is right out.
Looking to move an older Windows 7 laptop to Linux this week, any suggestions? Feels like there’s so much.
I've been doing the same thing, trying out distros on an old laptop in anticipation of moving all my machines over to Linux.
Linux Mint is by far the most popular for noobs on older hardware, has a clean if simple interface, and will run on tiny amounts of RAM, so if you have no other suggestions and don't know much about Linux, I'd say start there.
Linux Mint is not Ubuntu, but based on it, so there's a lot of support. As a Windows and Mac user I found the Linux Mint "Cinnamon" desktop environment easy enough to navigate, it's solid in terms of broad hardware support, and there are a LOT of resources if you have questions, want to watch a tutorial, or need a helping hand, all pluses for a noob. (And I don't think I had to touch the command line once, when I had it installed: bonus.)
But the cool thing is that most Linux distros have a "LiveUSB" install, meaning that you can load the .iso of your choice onto a 4GB USB drive, boot off the USB, and take the hardware for a spin without installing anything. LiveUSB means you can try as many distros as you like until you get tired of making USB drives, and all for free.
Somebody else here suggested "Ubuntu" to you without saying another word about it, but there's a lot more to it than that. You still have to pick a desktop environment, for example, and while there's nothing wrong with plain Ubuntu, I honestly don't think that's the most user-friendly distro you could start with.
Try it, see if you like it. Most distros are completely free, including Ubuntu. But if you're just looking at finding ONE to start with, again, try Linux Mint: it's popular for Linux noobs for a reason, it's stable, and even if you find you don't like it, it's a great place to dip your toe in and see how Linux works for you personally.
I agree with every point you make except for the desktop environment front end.
While it is nice to install a distro with a given desktop environment OOTB, you can always change it, and even have multiple ones installed at the same time. This is typically a better approach to testing out desktop environments because you don't have to reinstall every time.
I am testing both, so for me a mix of both is best.
This is true for Debian, but not for many others. Even Fedora ships with preloaded DE "spins" now. And changing it post-install requires more than beginner level knowledge, specific to that OS. For someone coming over to Linux directly from Windows/Mac, that's not really feasible upfront.
If you just need a general purpose desktop and it's your your first time, I would suggest just picking a popular and stable one with lots of documentation like Debian, Mint or Ubuntu.
I'm leaning towards Debian myself. I don't like the direction Ubuntu (mint is essentially Ubuntu too) is going. Ubuntu is ran by a for profit company, and it is only going to get worse after snaps.
From what I've read Debian is about as new user friendly as Ubuntu is.
Yeah I would definitely choose Debian in that case. Enjoy :)
As someone who switched a year ago and started from Debian - yes, it absolutely is beginner-friendly)
How's the gaming support on debian?
I only play Team Fortress 2, and it runs with no issues) But when it comes to normally-windows games, people say it's mostly fine. Haven't yet tried myself though.
Fedora saved my old Windows laptop and it was a pretty smooth switch from Windows for me (though I had a bit of Linux experience). That thing became quicker than when I first bought it haha.
Choose a variation of Mint. They have a lighter weight build that is perfect for older hardware just read their site. Mint operates and feels extremely close to w7 and its easy to use! Promise you'll like it
Ignore all the “this distro is the best”
Just use Ubuntu to start until you know what you wish was different
I agree with the first part but Ubuntu is pretty much the worst distro you can recommend.
It’s what proprietary software tends to target, so for someone just coming from Windows, it’s a decent first choice.
OpenSUSE/Fedora don’t support media codecs without knowing you need to add Packman/RPMFusion
Debian just released Bookworm, so it might be an okay recommendation for now, but as a general rule it’s probably not the best first distro
For someone used to Windows staying the same for years, jumping straight to a rolling release like Arch or its derivatives is a massive change
NixOS is too much configuration for a first time user
Linux Mint is maybe a better first recommendation, but it’s still downstream of Ubuntu (I wouldn’t recommend LMDE for a first time Linux user)
Your response is exactly why people find it so difficult to pick a distro to start. Ubuntu may not be the perfect distro for you or I, but there’s a decent reason it’s one of the biggest, and it has conservative defaults
Until that user knows what things bother them about it or what more they need, we’d just go back and forth all day about upsides and downsides of each distro
Because Linux is a giant pain in the ass for anyone who is not a software engineer.
In what way?
In the way that you will be expected to memorize a plethora of commands that you then type into a text-based interface the same way you would have with Windows DOS in 1998.
Linux does have desktop environments.
No shit. It doesn't matter because any type of troubleshooting and most installations require you to dive into the CLI or download an appimage, open the properties and select an executable. This is not remotely intuitive. I mean I could go on and on and on with this but anyone who uses Linux knows it already. I just don't understand why they can't see how incredibly unintuitive the entire system is, with seemingly no plans to make it easier.
That's a lot like how on windows you have to download a zip and open it to select an executable.
I think it depends on what you're trying to do. Normal stuff like web browsing, email and working with documents is fine. For example, my partner has been running her business from a Linux laptop for the last year or so and I don't think she ever touches the terminal.
It's not that it's unintuitive at all if you pick a simple distro, it's just slightly different from Windows which has been shoved in your face throughout your entire education and career.
Yes there is some small amount of learning involved, but there are many Linux distros nowadays that are setup for ease of use and require no CLI knowledge or use from the user. There are many desktop environments that mimic Windows versions to make the switch pretty seamless, too.
If you first tried Linux many years ago, I could understand you saying that it's unintuitive, but nowadays that just isn't the case.
I'd like to add that you should just pick the OS you prefer. I'm not one of those needs that look down on anyone who chooses to use Windows over Linux. I personally have both on my machine because games. I just wanted to clarify that it isn't unintuitive at all, just different than what you were forced to learn in school.
No. It is not "slightly different". In my 30 years of using Windows I have never used the CLI, which you have to use on a regular basis on Linux to complete basic tasks. I detailed this example elsewhere. There's absolutely nothing intuitive about the CLI.
You don't have to really use the CLI on the simpler Linux distros nowadays is what I am getting at. Mint and Ubuntu for instance. My grandparents use Mint, and believe me, they don't know what the terminal is.
Also, windows installers run Command Prompt stuff in the background. You are basically doing the same process but clicking buttons to setup a CLI command. They are more similar than you think.
You are just used to the GUI way of doing things, and you can get by fine on Linux nowadays. If you were forced to learn Linux growing up, you would think Windows was the unintuitive OS.
I'm not trying to convince you one is better than the other, just telling you that it is not unintuitive.
Yes. You do.
How do you not realize how clicking a bunch of sensibly-labeled buttons is one thousand times easier and more intuitive than memorizing a library of commands and when and how to use them?
And I'm just telling you that you're wrong.
No you don't have to use the CLI on Linux at all You are just wrong about that. Modern Mint and Ubuntu come with completely GUI driven package managers for installing and updating. It hasn't always been like this but it is now.
The only reason you would have to use the CLI is if you are doing some power user stuff that you would have to do on CLI or powershell in windows, as well.
You do realize this is just your opinion and not a fact. Your opinion is that is unintuitive. My opinion is that it is not, its literally impossible to be wrong here. I can find tons of people who think Windows way of doing things is more unintuitive. The only fact here is that neither of them actually are unintuitive in reality. People just have preferences and biases because of what they are used to.
You sound awfully close minded and angry for some reason too.
I think it depends, I guess you "just" need the right distro and compatible hardware (e.g. a Thinkpad). I started as a complete Linux noob too, but most problems I encountered I could easily solve in no time because a lot of things are nicely documented or someone else had them before and documented their solution on the internet. But depending on your usecase and other factors I understand Linux can be a pain in the ass.
Mainstream distros are just as easy to use as windows or MacOS.
As a Linux user I mostly agree...
... until you try to play any competitive multiplayer game and wonder why any anticheat doesn't work or flags your system and account.
Nowadays I use my Windows 10 mostly for games and video editing.
EAC depending on the title works out of the box from what I've seen, I don't have much time these days to play many competitive shooters or games in general but Battlebit and PlanetSide look to work fine through proton.
Let me tell you a little story about yesterday:
My Signal app on Linux keeps crashing. I write to them for support. They suggest I install the Beta version. Why would they suggest I install a version that openly state is "for users who do not mind discontinuity in service and are willing to work with us to understand and test issues." to fix an issue, I haven't the slightest, but I take a look regardless.
"To install on MacOS, download and install this file"
"To install on Windows, download and install the file"
"To install on Linux open a terminal and copy and paste these commands".
So I open the terminal and copy and paste the commands and I get some generic error message I don't understand and now I...fuck off because I'm not a software engineer and don't know how to fix this shit. That's before even getting into the 2 other commands I'm supposed to run that I don't understand what they are or what they do.
My ProtonVPN client on Linux is incredibly basic and unstable, and has been for many years while the Windows client is beautiful and functions perfectly in the background with zero interaction.
People who think Linux is fine for the general public are, frankly, delusional. I don't have another word to explain how you can be under that impression.
You make a fair point. ProtonVPN was a nightmare for me to set up and get working too but I think that's Proton's fault more than Linux's. I have many other applications that I simply installed with one click from the Software application and then have never needed to touch again. It seems not all app developers are equally motivated to make their stuff easy to run.
To the end user, it doesn't matter.
Yes, that is the point. Many developers don't care to rewrite their software for the 1% of people that daily drive Linux .
I agree. Still, I can't help but expect better from Proton.
Oh yeah 100%. You would think a company built on privacy and security would have better support for the most private and secure OS.
There's still a lot of little things that are still a pain for someone who doesn't know how things work. Many are not the OS' fault but still, different experiences.
For example, say you're running discord. Next week there's a discord update, it'll not apply the update automatically, it'll only download a deb file. An user familiar with windows may try to open the deb file... And it'll launch the package manager, but the only option available is to uninstall. In order to install the update you'll need the terminal.
There are a lot of little things like this. This one is just something you need to learn, but others are a real pita when you have no experience.
And if you have a 4k screen and Nvidia gpu when you try Linux for the first time, I guarantee you're going to hate the experience.
My new hardware is literally incompatible with Windows 11. They're doing me a kindness I don't want all this AI shit on my PC
Excuses.
Haha, I had a partition on my pc for the longest time to put Linux on it. But I do a lot of game dev stuff, so I've been reluctant to switch from windows.
Switch to Linux! If nothing else, run stuff with wine and most things will work seamlessly
Real question. Is gaming (not game dev) significantly better than it was 5 years ago on Linux? I really want to switch, but I also really don't want to give up everything "just working" and doing it smoothly when gaming on windows.
I've even considered having 2 PC's for my 4 monitors, and having the middle monitor run windows and the other 3 on a Linux box. I used to use a program that could simulate my mouse moving from one pc to an entirely different one even across windows and Linux, and also share the clipboard. I could try that again.
But if the gaming experience is sufficient and convenient on Linux I might switch entirely.
It's vastly better than it was 5 years ago. You can get an idea by going to protondb.com and looking at games. Basically, most games work out of the box with minimal to no issues. Even most new games work on release without major issues.
The biggest issue is anti-cheat and DRM. That can be a show stopped for some users, but for me it hasn't been an issue.
I switched full time to Linux about 3 months ago, I had been wanting to for a long time since I prefer dev work on Linux and generally hate Windows.
Gaming is nearly as easy on Linux as on windows, especially through steam imo. Almost all games will work right out of the box, just set steam to use proton for any non linux-natve games and it does it. The only game I've had an issue with is cyberpunk 2077, and that was fixed with a few minutes of googling, then pasting a launch config into the settings, now it runs perfectly. One thing to watch out for, no games that use a kernal-level anticheat will work on Linux unless they specifically support it, sucky but those anticheat software makers are coming around to support it slowly.
I actually prefer installing software on Linux to doing it on Windows. Same process for finding software, just Google it and look for stuff that works on Linux. Even proprietary stuff runs natively on Linux sometimes, I personally look for free and open source software as an alternative every time and it usually is better imo. Once you find what you want, it's super easy to install. No need to deal with downloading files, clicking them to install, and all that jazz. Just open a terminal and do "yay -S {package name}" and it'll install. Also makes it very easy to install multiple things at once, especially if you already know what software you want. Cherry on top, updates aren't forced on you. You can update all of your packages with "yay -Syu", or update individual ones if you want, there's a lot of control over it, and you don't need to rely on the app to have its own update tool.
Sometimes there's windows specific software that isn't on Linux, it kind of sucks, but almost everytime I'm able to find free and open source software that's natively Linux compatible and is better than the closed source software I initially wanted. Even with windows-specific software, most things can be run with wine and work just like a native Linux app. Sometimes things don't work on wine, but basically all of them will have free and open source alternatives you can use instead, or there are workarounds that are probably easy to find.
If you wanted to do the 2 PC's you definitely can, I would recommend one PC and just add a Linux partition or hard drive, you then boot into Windows or Linux but don't need a whole new PC. You have to reboot to go between them, but you can access each systems files from the other one (can't run games, but like documents and such). If you do go with 2 PC's though, I recommend using an app called Barrier for the mouse/keyboard sharing. I use it between my PC (Linux) and my work laptop (windows) and it's great, my work laptop stays folded up and I have only one mouse and keyboard on my desk.
I'll look into barrier, thanks. I work in the gaming industry (from home, on my own pc) and so I am constantly running games and doing non-gaming tasks on and off so dual booting is not really an option for me. I often need to do normal tasks while games are running too. Which is why I wanted that 2 pc setup I mentioned above.
However I think I might dual boot just to try Linux out with gaming for now (I have a spare ssd I can use to keep it simple) since I see a lot of people saying it's pretty good now. Then if it works out I can just transition to only Linux.
If you have the money for a second PC then I see no reason not to do it. If you want to use the same PC, you can also very easily make a windows virtual machine to do windows specific work in if you have something that doesn't work with wine for whatever reason. A vm won't be able to play the kernal monitoring anticheat games as far as I know, but any miscellaneous programs that may not like or run well on wine can be run there if needed
I have a 64bit Mac that can't play 32bit Steam games anymore (which is all of them). I'm thinking of switching to Linux specifically for games. What you're saying so I could play whatever on Linux via steam? And Steam isn't a massive pain in the ass to install and configure like it used to be?? Holy shit, that's game changing. Pun intended.
Is Master Chief Collection on Steam? That would be amazing since the only instance of Windows I had decided to change it's own password and essentially lock me out.
Yep! Idk if the apple architecture caused any issues but I highly doubt it. At least on arch Linux it's as easy as "sudo pacman -S steam". It has some dependencies obviously, but after that it'll be installed and you can sign in easy peasy. It'll install proton through the steam downloader too, the only setting you even need to change is steam > settings > compatibility > Enable Steam Play for all other titles; run with proton experimental.
Master chief collection is on steam, and is playable with proton
Dammnn you just made my day! I'm not using my Mac for that. It doesn't have enough storage space on a good day. I have a Windows 10 computer that decided to change it's own password that I'll erase and put Linux on.
Do you have any recommendations on Linux OS? Right now I'm using Fedora but it seems like there are better options out there, especially if playing games.
Avoid Ubuntu, it uses flatpak. Besides that it's really personal preference. I personally love endeavouros, very easy installation process and a lot of desktop environments to choose from. Comes with some helpful initial setup tools too. It's arch Linux based and there's a ton of resources for arch too, but arch does come with a learning curve. Backups are your friend
That's what a lot of Linux people miss. They've been dealing with it for a while already so a lot of them are like "it's so easy!" and then they have to start explaing repos and containers to people and the person just sticks to Windows.
Linux won't capture the users until it can handle an idiot as well as Windows.
I have two hard drives. One dedicated to each Windows and Linux. It maies life easier.
If you play a lot of competitive multiplayer games, it would be better to keep a windows partition for them (overwatch is the only game that I had a good experience on Linux).
I used to play some competitive Apex, I was overjoyed when I heard anti cheat support is available on Linux, and quickly installed it. I tried it a couple of times since then, the most recent being last month - The game is playable but not on a competitive level imho. The smoothness is just not there. Then again this might be because of my low spec hardware.
Games like Valorant just won't work because of their kernel level anticheat. (But hey we have Conter-Strike 2 now)
AAA games run just fine for the most part, its playable and I usually get performance similar to windows.
The steam deck uses a custom Linux distro made by valve specifically for it. So it's at least good enough for gaming that valve trusted it for their mainstream handled gaming PC.
I've got one and tbh it's pretty good. As long as you stick to games that are rated as either verified or playable on steamdeck you'll probably have a good time.
You've made me remember that quite not long ago I wanted to play on Linux (precisely on Mint, but I've also tried pop os), and I had three results:
1 - Game not even trying to launch/wine error (usually related to graphics) (did happen once or twice, tested few games): Factorio, without magic wine parameters and magic overall
2 - Game runs, but graphical glitches makes it unplayable: Factorio after tweaks
3 - Game running fine, fps lower or equal than on windows: Minecraft, Kerbal space program
(Yes, now I know Factorio also had Linux version, but it's too late for that)
So while it may be playable for some 9999 IQ rice master couch-looking moderator after just touching the demon named Wine, I don't have the brains, patience or time tweaking every little parameter/environmental vars/wine prefixes on top of each other to make a game play at 2 fps. It also didn't help that when trying to resolve apt conflicts, Mint just killed itself (looking at you
aptitude). My overall experience of Linux isn't bad, it may be good for customization masters, but for me, which would like having things "just working", and maybe after that some trial and error tweaks, Windows is closer to that wish. Although when MS forces W11 onto me, I'm jumpshipping to Linux, no matter how shitty my UX is (at least I hope so)Edit: forgot that there is markdown, formating fix
Edit2: bad brain, missing word fix
Honestly that is a pretty awful experience. Proton is infinitely better for games than wine in my opinion though, I definitely recommend giving it another try. I have a good 20 games on steam from AAA to indie, the only one to have any issues was cyberpunk 2077 and even that was a simple launch command fix that I found in a couple minutes of googling the problem and it runs fine now.
I admittedly haven't dealt with wine too much since most games can be run with proton and I avoid programs that don't support Linux, but I was able to run heavily modded Minecraft at basically the same fps as on windows with no wine tweaking. Lutris is also a good platform that can make installing non-steam games much easier
If you want a good os to try instead of jumping ship at random, I'd recommend grabbing endeavour os and picking whatever desktop environment you like on top of it, all of their stuff looks good right out of the box and gets you a lot of the necessities. Any of their official desktop environments (except i3) are super easy to use and should be familiar to windows users, I'm a strong believer in arch superiority because if there's a problem, someone else has already fixed it and you can steal their solution even though there is a learning curve to customizing it
Proton is incredibly simple to use, and gaming on Linux is pretty seamless for like 3/4+ of games now. Including Factorio.
Minecraft and other java apps actually run better on Linux because of the way the scheduler works, something wasn't right with your system.
Oh cool, I didn't realize that was a thing. If I can run Unreal Engine on Linux, that's pretty much the only thing stopping me from switching.
Yep! Quick search turns this up, looks like you don't even need wine for it which is even better.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/SharingAndReleasing/Linux/BeginnerLinuxDeveloper/SettingUpAnUnrealWorkflow/#:~:text=Whether%20you%20downloaded%20the%20Unreal,located%20on%20your%20hard%20disk.
(Unreal engine also has a specific Linux page, but I don't have an epic games account so I can't view it - https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/linux )
Wine basically let's you run windows-only software on Linux by making a directory that emulates windows, installs needed dependencies, etc. Most windows programs can be run smoothly using wine in my experience, the main ones that can't are games with kernal-level anticheat. If you've heard of Proton, that's valves fork of wine that they've built up specifically for games
I have heard of Proton. Just didn't realize it was for gaming. Thanks for the info! I'm seriously thinking about switching now. Just gotta figure out what to do with all my current game repository on windows.
You could get a second hard drive and install Linux on that so you can boot into either, you can also access the files on your Windows drive from Linux (and vice versa) so you can grab the files if needed. If by game repositories you mean GitHub repos you can also just clone those down to the Linux one too
Some of them are github repos, others are not version controlled. But good to know, didn't even think about re-cloning them.
You can also transfer those files to the Linux partition directly, your file browser will (or at least should) be able to find your Windows drive or partition and let you browse all the files there, it's easy to then drag them to a folder on the Linux side and get them copied over
I took a quick screenshot of the page while it was loading, before the login overlay was visible:
I also quickly hit the link, which lead to this: https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/linux-development-requirements-for-unreal-engine/
Nono, please do hurry to switch to Linux.
How well will my Index work on Linux?
That's the real trojan.
Me too !! Been loving Ubuntu the last couple of months. Had very few issues other than one time my Gui stopped working and it would only boot into terminal, if anyone knows how to fix that it would be great incase it happens again . Last time I just did a fresh install.
I recently went to Kubuntu and it's been good.