Honestly, the only thing that's keeping linux from taking over desktop is unreliable gaming experience. Most distros are already easy to install and use anyway. If it had a gaming experience as smooth as Windows it would be the norm.
Nah, the real reason is that Linux doesn't come pre-installed on new devices. The average user doesn't even know that you can install a different operating system. This is a much larger hurdle than the gaming experience.
I've already seen 2 people sell their laptops as broken because they forgot the Windows login password.
Damn, I wish people stupid as this would live in Europe since every time it's someone in the us finding deals like this
Found in Slovakia and Czech Republic on Aukro.sk (auctioning site)
I wish I could find such on Avito in my city
Oh damn I have to look better then (thanks for the tip, haven't looked there) (yes you might've guessed I also come from the cz/sk area)
It also kinda fits, I have met more people that know nothing about things like this than those who know
If you're from Czech republic, then use Aukro.cz as that's the Czech version. It was just recently re-introduced to Slovakia.
I know, why would I use a slovak website when I know the czech one exists (but yeah you had no way to tell if I knew, thanks for telling me either way)
This isn't even remotely accurate. The average person isn't a PC gamer.
The reason is because for the average person, Windows "works". It works with the applications they know, it looks and acts like they remember, they can get it repaired, and there is zero incentive to change.
Furthermore, Linux isn't as user-friendly as Windows on the desktop. The average user doesn't give a fuck about the terminal, privacy, ads, or any of the shit other people care about.
When someone creates a distro that has 99% support for all Windows applications, zero maintenance, no need to ever touch a terminal or change a config file, and comes preinstalled on the crappy machines they buy from the supermarket, then Linux has a chance.
The average user does not use a variety of apps either. All they need is a browser, a rich text editor, a simple image editor, a video player and maybe a messenger. All but the browser can be effectively substituted by web apps nowadays, so the browser is pretty much the only thing they really need. But then, they're better off with a chromebook, as it doesn't offer as much options to brick itself.
Honestly, I’d love a “Your Grandma Can’t Brick This” distro.
Numerous times I've heard Linux Mint be referred to as exactly this! :)
The funny part is some distros like that are perfect for the other extreme that basically just needs a browser and maybe a way to write letters or print things.
Mint is very GUI-heavy and tries to keep itself out of the box and simple to maintain while staying out of the way.
...and tech support scammers have no idea what "a linux" is half the time, for added benefit. Lol
IMO Mint is more “Your Mum Can’t Brick This”. I wouldn’t hand it over to my grandma and expect to not get a call in the future saying it’s all gone to shit 😂
Ahh you have one of those truly destructive force-of-nature grandmas that no UX can stop from working over a system until it begs for a complete reformat!
I feel for you <3
... Maybe keep a remote access service like RustDesk handy if she's more than a few miles away then. 😆
... And install with BTRFS and Timeshift rollbacks.
Haha but I've seen it posted multiple times: "I set them up with it and my phone stops ringing for tech support calls and they're happy with it!" haha. Some like to learn, some don't sadly.
But YMMV, depending on the appetite for chaos wielded by one's particular gran-gran. XD
The devil is usually in the details.
OSS rich text editors work, but then you send out the document to someone who has Word and they complain about the formatting since it doesn't translate some times.
Messenger app experience usually goes "Native Windows > Web app > Linux", at least in the few corporate I used. Stuff like Lark not even being up to date with their web app and Telegram having strange interactions with some window managers.
It works and I gotten people to use raspberry pi instead of their windows computers, but it just feels very unpolished overall.
And then there's the whole package/flatpack/snap/cosmopolitan thing
True, but Chromebooks are a type of Linux as well.
When someone creates a distro that has 99% support for all Windows applications
This seems to be a common misunderstanding.
It's not that Linux doesn't support Windows applications, it's that the developers of those applications chose to only support Windows. They are different OSes that require executables targeting the platform.
Expecting Linux to run .exes built for Windows is like expecting the sea to support your car
Ah - so wine is a lie?
The fact that most pcs ate sold with windows preinstalled is a strong factor too.
"the norm" part isn't accurate, but if it could match gaming performance/compatibility I know a lot of people who would switch. Myself included.
And seeing as how 2% isn't a very large percentage (but I think the number of gamers who are sick of windows, or have privacy concerns is quite large), I think it would be a notable increase in the userbase.
Even an increase to 2.5% market share is a 25% boost. A lot of products would be very excited indeed to boost their market share by 25%.
It might even light a tiny, tiny fire under Microsoft that they can't just keep being shit with no consequences.
Competition (sometimes) breeds innovation.
ads
Tis a lie!
You're massively overestimating how many people care about gaming on their computers.
Yeah exactly. The desktop stats are the way they are because of business machines mostly needing to run Ms Office. And no, open office etc is no substitute for excel. Yes maybe the most basic of spreadsheets but there are some monster sheets out there in most businesses which use excel only functionality.
I'd argue that those "monster sheets" should not be on excel, but they will figure that out once they have transitioned to the cloud and then their important stuff isn't accessible one day.
Yeah. I remember checking out scripting in Libre and when you put it next to Excel's "just press here and write code", it's kind of bizzare.
You're massively overestimating how many people care about gaming on their computers.
We're all massively overestimating how many people care about their computers.
Sigh ._.
You're right but it would still be a significant enough jump that it would be noticeable, nothing crazy like doubling or tripling numbers but definitely noticeable. Out of my 4 close friends 3 of us would be on Linux if it wasn't for games.
That's not my experience at all. Most people I know who say they can't use Linux do so because of professional software. Games on Linux have come a long way and unless you insist ob playing windows-only games, you have more games for a Linux than you could play in a lifetime.
Even for games only released for Windows, with proton most of them work, its games with hardware tied intrusive DRM that are most of the ones that have any issue, and honestly, I have no issue boycotting that shit
most games work but have minor annoying issues, even native linux versions.
for example celeste has broken steam overlay (linux native game!!!) if running on amd gpus
In my experience, gaming in Linux works even better than on Windows. Every game I installed so far was supported by proton.
The main thing holding Linux back is professional software I think. If Photoshop and the likes are supported better, a lot of people will switch and find out that they also can play games on Linux.
I get better game performance in Linux, but I still use Windows mostly due to CAD software (just like you're saying). I hope those companies see the value in developing for Linux, but I'm not sure the statistics are there to convince them yet. Chicken/egg problem?
Have you messed around with Freecad and Librecad?
Don't know about OP, but I have and do use FreeCAD regularly and it's a fantastic piece of software - in it's current form it's not suitable for use a lot of professional engineering setups.
I've used Freecad for a few projects. It's definitely usable, but the learning curve is really steep, even for someone who already knows other CAD. I don't think the workflow/features are there yet for being able to use it professionally in most cases. It feels much more like an engineering tool than an industrial design tool, which is part of why I hold that opinion.
I have not used Librecad. It's 2D, right?
Exactly. I hate how we rely so much on Microsoft office and how it is not available on Linux.
For office, there are great alternatives, imho. LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Obsidian, to name a few. What functions do you need that these don't offer?
OnlyOffice is mentioned so rarely but it has an UI much more resembling the ribbon based MS Office and in my experience a good compatibility with docx and xlsx files. Don't know what's happening when confronted with macro-monsters though.
It seems to format documents differently though. That means it scrambled a few files for a co-worker I sent it to who uses MS Office. Stuff like that never happens with LibreOffice although I like the OpenOffice UI better.
Ah thanks for letting me know. Scrambled sounds dire. Spreadsheets or documents?
Thought the devs nailed it pretty good. At least I never saw differences in my not overly complicated letter layouts when I opened them in MS Office.
Though I had your use-case just with a few rather simple spreadsheets I got from colleagues for me to modify and send back, they never complained.
Anyways I'm glad I don't have to do with office products very often but I'll look into OpenOffice as well. Looks indeed very good. Like a streamlined and modern MS Office without ribbons.
This is such a bubbled and disconnected opinion from the greater global population. Please be aware of that fact and don't let yourself get so bubbled again
I mean, suddenly, its really good. Not seamless as windows currently is but so close. Like 80% of Steam.
I'm on Nobara with KDE, which is based on Fedora but automatically comes with the proprietary drivers and some tweaks specifically for gaming.
Yes - most of Microsoft and Apples income is from gamers. They are huge group compared to the business laptop market
Nah although I agree that Linux is a huge sleeping giant, Microsoft systems in general still have a huge hold over quite a lot of things, and also does a good job of providing business as whole to a variety of sub groups, everyone that runs engineering software, antivirus software, hell, SQL databases, even the dating apps, and the creators of spywares, all these things work with Microsoft et al for money, if they had to switch over to using Linux, they would find the same ways they do today to make money, you would see huge increases in use of one common desktop and window manager package, spyware, hacking tools, targeting Qt, supply chain hacking and diversion, gitlab DDOSing, etc.
The reality is that all of these things are things that Microsoft and partners has already had to consider and deal with, so if Ubuntu or Arch were to step into the mainstream marketplace even with OEM support, they would have to face the same scrutiny and problems which someone would eventually expect to have to get paid for to resolve it help out with.
Honestly, the only thing that's keeping linux from taking over desktop is unreliable gaming experience. Most distros are already easy to install and use anyway. If it had a gaming experience as smooth as Windows it would be the norm.
Nah, the real reason is that Linux doesn't come pre-installed on new devices. The average user doesn't even know that you can install a different operating system. This is a much larger hurdle than the gaming experience.
I've already seen 2 people sell their laptops as broken because they forgot the Windows login password.
Damn, I wish people stupid as this would live in Europe since every time it's someone in the us finding deals like this
Found in Slovakia and Czech Republic on Aukro.sk (auctioning site)
I wish I could find such on Avito in my city
Oh damn I have to look better then (thanks for the tip, haven't looked there) (yes you might've guessed I also come from the cz/sk area)
It also kinda fits, I have met more people that know nothing about things like this than those who know
If you're from Czech republic, then use Aukro.cz as that's the Czech version. It was just recently re-introduced to Slovakia.
I know, why would I use a slovak website when I know the czech one exists (but yeah you had no way to tell if I knew, thanks for telling me either way)
This isn't even remotely accurate. The average person isn't a PC gamer.
The reason is because for the average person, Windows "works". It works with the applications they know, it looks and acts like they remember, they can get it repaired, and there is zero incentive to change.
Furthermore, Linux isn't as user-friendly as Windows on the desktop. The average user doesn't give a fuck about the terminal, privacy, ads, or any of the shit other people care about.
When someone creates a distro that has 99% support for all Windows applications, zero maintenance, no need to ever touch a terminal or change a config file, and comes preinstalled on the crappy machines they buy from the supermarket, then Linux has a chance.
The average user does not use a variety of apps either. All they need is a browser, a rich text editor, a simple image editor, a video player and maybe a messenger. All but the browser can be effectively substituted by web apps nowadays, so the browser is pretty much the only thing they really need. But then, they're better off with a chromebook, as it doesn't offer as much options to brick itself.
Honestly, I’d love a “Your Grandma Can’t Brick This” distro.
Numerous times I've heard Linux Mint be referred to as exactly this! :)
The funny part is some distros like that are perfect for the other extreme that basically just needs a browser and maybe a way to write letters or print things.
Mint is very GUI-heavy and tries to keep itself out of the box and simple to maintain while staying out of the way.
...and tech support scammers have no idea what "a linux" is half the time, for added benefit. Lol
IMO Mint is more “Your Mum Can’t Brick This”. I wouldn’t hand it over to my grandma and expect to not get a call in the future saying it’s all gone to shit 😂
Ahh you have one of those truly destructive force-of-nature grandmas that no UX can stop from working over a system until it begs for a complete reformat!
I feel for you <3
... Maybe keep a remote access service like RustDesk handy if she's more than a few miles away then. 😆
... And install with BTRFS and Timeshift rollbacks.
Haha but I've seen it posted multiple times: "I set them up with it and my phone stops ringing for tech support calls and they're happy with it!" haha. Some like to learn, some don't sadly.
But YMMV, depending on the appetite for chaos wielded by one's particular gran-gran. XD
The devil is usually in the details.
OSS rich text editors work, but then you send out the document to someone who has Word and they complain about the formatting since it doesn't translate some times. Messenger app experience usually goes "Native Windows > Web app > Linux", at least in the few corporate I used. Stuff like Lark not even being up to date with their web app and Telegram having strange interactions with some window managers.
It works and I gotten people to use raspberry pi instead of their windows computers, but it just feels very unpolished overall.
And then there's the whole package/flatpack/snap/cosmopolitan thing
True, but Chromebooks are a type of Linux as well.
This seems to be a common misunderstanding.
It's not that Linux doesn't support Windows applications, it's that the developers of those applications chose to only support Windows. They are different OSes that require executables targeting the platform.
Expecting Linux to run .exes built for Windows is like expecting the sea to support your car
Ah - so wine is a lie?
The fact that most pcs ate sold with windows preinstalled is a strong factor too.
"the norm" part isn't accurate, but if it could match gaming performance/compatibility I know a lot of people who would switch. Myself included.
And seeing as how 2% isn't a very large percentage (but I think the number of gamers who are sick of windows, or have privacy concerns is quite large), I think it would be a notable increase in the userbase.
Even an increase to 2.5% market share is a 25% boost. A lot of products would be very excited indeed to boost their market share by 25%.
It might even light a tiny, tiny fire under Microsoft that they can't just keep being shit with no consequences.
Competition (sometimes) breeds innovation.
Tis a lie!
You're massively overestimating how many people care about gaming on their computers.
Yeah exactly. The desktop stats are the way they are because of business machines mostly needing to run Ms Office. And no, open office etc is no substitute for excel. Yes maybe the most basic of spreadsheets but there are some monster sheets out there in most businesses which use excel only functionality.
I'd argue that those "monster sheets" should not be on excel, but they will figure that out once they have transitioned to the cloud and then their important stuff isn't accessible one day.
Yeah. I remember checking out scripting in Libre and when you put it next to Excel's "just press here and write code", it's kind of bizzare.
We're all massively overestimating how many people care about their computers.
Sigh ._.
You're right but it would still be a significant enough jump that it would be noticeable, nothing crazy like doubling or tripling numbers but definitely noticeable. Out of my 4 close friends 3 of us would be on Linux if it wasn't for games.
That's not my experience at all. Most people I know who say they can't use Linux do so because of professional software. Games on Linux have come a long way and unless you insist ob playing windows-only games, you have more games for a Linux than you could play in a lifetime.
Even for games only released for Windows, with proton most of them work, its games with hardware tied intrusive DRM that are most of the ones that have any issue, and honestly, I have no issue boycotting that shit
most games work but have minor annoying issues, even native linux versions.
for example celeste has broken steam overlay (linux native game!!!) if running on amd gpus
In my experience, gaming in Linux works even better than on Windows. Every game I installed so far was supported by proton.
The main thing holding Linux back is professional software I think. If Photoshop and the likes are supported better, a lot of people will switch and find out that they also can play games on Linux.
I get better game performance in Linux, but I still use Windows mostly due to CAD software (just like you're saying). I hope those companies see the value in developing for Linux, but I'm not sure the statistics are there to convince them yet. Chicken/egg problem?
Have you messed around with Freecad and Librecad?
Don't know about OP, but I have and do use FreeCAD regularly and it's a fantastic piece of software - in it's current form it's not suitable for use a lot of professional engineering setups.
I've used Freecad for a few projects. It's definitely usable, but the learning curve is really steep, even for someone who already knows other CAD. I don't think the workflow/features are there yet for being able to use it professionally in most cases. It feels much more like an engineering tool than an industrial design tool, which is part of why I hold that opinion.
I have not used Librecad. It's 2D, right?
Exactly. I hate how we rely so much on Microsoft office and how it is not available on Linux.
For office, there are great alternatives, imho. LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Obsidian, to name a few. What functions do you need that these don't offer?
OnlyOffice is mentioned so rarely but it has an UI much more resembling the ribbon based MS Office and in my experience a good compatibility with docx and xlsx files. Don't know what's happening when confronted with macro-monsters though.
It seems to format documents differently though. That means it scrambled a few files for a co-worker I sent it to who uses MS Office. Stuff like that never happens with LibreOffice although I like the OpenOffice UI better.
Ah thanks for letting me know. Scrambled sounds dire. Spreadsheets or documents?
Thought the devs nailed it pretty good. At least I never saw differences in my not overly complicated letter layouts when I opened them in MS Office.
Though I had your use-case just with a few rather simple spreadsheets I got from colleagues for me to modify and send back, they never complained.
Anyways I'm glad I don't have to do with office products very often but I'll look into OpenOffice as well. Looks indeed very good. Like a streamlined and modern MS Office without ribbons.
This is such a bubbled and disconnected opinion from the greater global population. Please be aware of that fact and don't let yourself get so bubbled again
I mean, suddenly, its really good. Not seamless as windows currently is but so close. Like 80% of Steam.
I'm on Nobara with KDE, which is based on Fedora but automatically comes with the proprietary drivers and some tweaks specifically for gaming.
Yes - most of Microsoft and Apples income is from gamers. They are huge group compared to the business laptop market
any sources on that?
No
Nah although I agree that Linux is a huge sleeping giant, Microsoft systems in general still have a huge hold over quite a lot of things, and also does a good job of providing business as whole to a variety of sub groups, everyone that runs engineering software, antivirus software, hell, SQL databases, even the dating apps, and the creators of spywares, all these things work with Microsoft et al for money, if they had to switch over to using Linux, they would find the same ways they do today to make money, you would see huge increases in use of one common desktop and window manager package, spyware, hacking tools, targeting Qt, supply chain hacking and diversion, gitlab DDOSing, etc.
The reality is that all of these things are things that Microsoft and partners has already had to consider and deal with, so if Ubuntu or Arch were to step into the mainstream marketplace even with OEM support, they would have to face the same scrutiny and problems which someone would eventually expect to have to get paid for to resolve it help out with.
And MS Office