please stop with the "Just Leave." we can't all just leave and i tire of hearing it. what limitations and obligations keep you where you are?
and if you genuinely can Just Leave wherever you are, reflect for awhile on your privilege, then try to recognize how many people do not have that option for any number of reasons.
sometimes i think this sentiment is only a little less tone-deaf than "just have a baby."
Well, hopefully you can get enough people to get over the hurdles you have to vote for actual change.
Have you seen the state of gerrymandering in Texas? They know their positions are unpopular abominations against democracy, so they’ve worked furtively to dismantle democracy so they can get away with this shit.
Yes, for the love of humanity, VOTE. But never believe that’s all you can or must do. We outnumber them, and they need to be reminded of that in more ways than one.
Gerrymandering doesn't explain why we reelected Greg "It could've been worse" Abbott.
In Texas, "leaving" can be a 10-hour drive and we still border with plenty of states that highly restrict abortion.
The people who are saying leave, are the ones seeing you as the frog slowly boiling, but not realizing it until it's too late.
Of course it sucks. Of course you might have to build life anew, but a real life beats a kettle that's heating up.
All I'm saying it's not black and white, and many probably already left or are in the process.
Okay, and? That doesn't change a thing braxy said. What if you've been aware for years of the pot getting hotter and hotter and have had every desire to leave but don't have the ability to? Those that have left were in a position in which they had the means to do so. Those that want to but can't for any number of reasons (finances, family, health, etc. etc.) don't have much choice.
Some of us also want to cool down the pot instead. I'd rather swim in my pot than someone else's.
My take is that there's nothing wrong in saying leave, or people leaving. But I also agreed that it's not possible for everyone, or not all want to - until perhaps something is too late.
I don't understand why the people who can't/won't/don't want to take offense from it, when it's a viable option for many.
And your take is at best tone deaf and at worst disingenuous.
People take offense because no one says, well, if you have the opportunity, and you don't like it, leave.
People just say, if you don't like it, leave. While ignoring that leaving is a privilege for most (how many is many anyway when most are living paycheck to paycheck).
So, I find your comment offensive. This one in particular. I don't need to read the rest of the comment thread because this one hot take was plenty enough.
Are most people honestly living from paycheck to another? I find that quite difficult to believe. Then again I'm Finnish and not American, so that's probably why I can't see the big picture from a local pov. Just seems.. baffling.
The median savings in the US is 5k. The median monthly expense is 4k.
That gives most people in the US a one month cushion. That's paycheck to paycheck.
If you make 5k and spend 4k a month, while having 5k savings, that's not pay check to pay check. Close though, but what the term implies is 0 surplus, all that you make goes before next pay.
I mean I hear you I was liberal with the definition when I looked up the savings figures.
It's not enough to move states to avoid right wing oppression. Which was really the point I was making. That most people can't simply leave if they don't like the situation.
I forgot part of the equation.
Median savings 4k. Median debt is around 50k. Median monthly income 5k.
Most people are actually worse than pay check to pay check.
What about the child rape victims who have zero agency? What about the disabled who are completely reliant on others? What about people who have court orders barring them from leaving for whatever reason? What about those for whom leaving would mean abandoning their children to an abusive spouse who has custody?
I could name reasons that’s not feasible for many, many people, but the bottom line is that may work for privileged people, but our responsibility is to care for all of us, and saying ‘sucks to be you’ is not a solution any of us should accept.
If the reason you’re staying is family, then maybe you need to rethink your priorities. Never let blood keep you from doing what you want to do or being who you want to be. You can serve your family better when you succeed at reaching your goals.
Translation. "I ate, world hunger solved".
This is akin to saying that you should abandon a dog or child when they're bleeding immensely. If I can take care of myself, I can take care of people who need me, family or not.
Leave, though. If enough people leave, only then will they realize how stupid they are. Your ancestors left the old countries on ships to the New World with only the clothes on their backs. Time for you Americans to emigrate elsewhere.
Fund their moves or shut the fuck up
Thank you.
People are funding it. But it's not enough
I searched quickly, but I couldn’t find anything. If there was like a Patreon or something where I could give $50/mo to help people get the fuck out of shitty states or situations, I’d do it. Know any?
I don't know any. If you want to help, ask them where to send the money. Alls I'm saying is, don't just advise someone to "just leave" without offering any resources to help them leave
There are plenty of organizations helping refugees all over the world. UNHCR is probably the most established, being affiliated with the UN. They would probably help out if you need to flee from your government.
https://www.unrefugees.org/
"It is impossible for me to leave"
"ThEn YoU ShOuLd LeAvE!"
Are you illiterate?
It’s never impossible, you could literally sell everything you own and go anywhere.
But most people won’t because that’s terrifying.
It's not. It never is. This is self defeatist rationalizing.
If it was easy enough for a significant amount of people to leave, the Republicans would love it because they could force out almost everyone that wouldn't vote for them
I have zero faith in republicans realizing any facts.
we're fairly well off but my wifes job is at a university, how do I move several campuses, the student body and the rest of the staff with us?
No, the Puritans were well-funded twats. Also, Texas isn't America, I suppose everyone refers to France as Europe?
What will happen is the few that can't afford to leave Texas will remain in an oppressive state run by psychopaths with no chance to free themselves. Those that can stay and fight, probably should, but it's also a huge ask to have people just trying to survive day-to-day also have to fight their shitty government back into the hell-hole from whence it came. They also have to deal with their own Texas neighbors who are too dumb to understand how repressed they are and actually like the direction that state is heading, as their own rights and freedoms are stripped away from underneath them.
It turns out that moving costs money, the cost of living varies greatly in surrounding states, Texas is huge, and with more than 60% of Americans living paycheck-to-paycheck, the incidental expenses that pop up from a move would be too great for more than 60% of Americans. That's even if they could find a job on the receiving end.
You clearly don't know the challenges of leaving a country and moving to e.g. the EU or Australia or something, or any other country for that matter. Countries are extremely selective of who they want in, they likely won't accept someone unless they work in a specialization that the country is in a shortage of and is in demand. Most of the world has laws that you can't accept someone for work in a country unless you can prove that they can't find a citizen of the country to fill the position first, and afterwards they have to sponsor a work visa for you which is a lot of time, money, and paperwork for the company, so they often avoid it. It's also a lot of time, money, and paperwork for you.
You can also work as a digital nomad provided you have enough money saved up and can sustain yourself on self-employment (you're not allowed to work under an employer on these visas), but generally this requires moving between different countries a lot because this is not a path to permanent residency. Some countries have treaties with the US that have a similar, but more lenient, process, for example the DAFT for the Netherlands which basically allows self-employed entrepeneurs to reside in the Netherlands as long as you can sustain yourself the entire time without government aid, and have a spare ~€4500 in a Dutch bank account that you can't withdraw from at all times.
The other option is trying to get residence or citizenship by descent if you have a parent within 1-4 generations and meet certain criteria depending on what the citizenship laws of the country are – I'm in the process of trying to do this with an adoptive Slovak/Hungarian great-grandparent and adoptive German great-grandparent right now, and I can verify myself that this is also an extremely expensive and time-consuming process that I'm not sure if I can even afford to continue in the future, and the worst part is I don't even know if it will pay off because my situation is a little fuzzy and possibly doesn't count. If that doesn't work, I'm absolutely out of luck for moving out of the US; I've tracked down a majority of my biological ancestors in the past 3 centuries and none of them in the past 200 years are from outside of the US. My ancestry for basically until you get to around the 1500s or 1600s is entirely American, English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, German, Dutch, Belgian, and French, which I'm pretty sure qualifies me for the most white Anglo-Saxon American here.
There's one other viable choice too – attending university at another country. The problem is there are a lot of criteria you have to meet to be elligible for this in the first place (for one you have to be very young, they usually won't accept people who are past their 20s), often times American diplomas and 2-year degrees aren't seen as qualifying you for college outside of the US (in Germany they have the "Abitur" as a requirement for university instead of a diploma, which is somewhat more rigorous than an Associate's degree, and the only way they accept your high school education as enough is if you gained specific credits and pass a few AP tests while in high school, and they don't count doing those credits in college it HAS to be while you're in high school), it's highly competitive, universities are required to only accept foreigners after they've accepted all applicants who are citizens; and it can be incredibly expensive unless you're going to a country which has no tuition costs and cheap student housing, which less and less countries are doing (Norway recently closed off free tuition for new non-European applicants).
The last options available aren't viable for a majority of people, but I'll list them out anyway. For one, you can spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars on property in some countries in exchange for a residence visa, a la Spain, Portugal, Cyprus' Golden Visa programs.
Otherwise, if you can't afford that (most people trying to escape the US or poorer countries can't), you can go through literal hell and join the French Foreign Legion at a chance to ask for citizenship of France after a few years – but this is a TERRIBLE decision for anyone to make, the FFL isn't just a group of soldiers, their entire training is basically abusing you with the worst conditions they can in order to weed out those who aren't extremely tough, and the soldiers are put in the most intense, mind-and-body breaking deployments imaginable. It is scary and most people aren't built for it psychologically nor physically. Plus you're not even guaranteed citizenship, even after serving the 3-year period a lot of people are denied it.
TL;DR, the ability to move out of a country/free-travel-area is relatively exclusive and inaccessible to most people, and only gets less realistic as time goes on due to both age and growing anti-immigrant sentiment in many countries. If you're part of a group subject to a country's systematic social & economic issues (i.e. not already in a privileged/well-off position where you can already afford to fund your education or have got the education to work in a highly wanted specialization), it's practically impossible to migrate to one of the countries that you'll have more opportunities in, even if you are part of the potential third of Americans who might qualify for citizenship by descent. It's the reason so many people risk their lives and freedom to illegally cross the border into the US and Europe every year, in a place where the system is against you it's unlikely most people have access to the means to legally move away.
Bus ticket is so fucking cheap, if you can't leave, it's not time to whine about others' privilege, its time to look in the mirror. Or some water in a puddle, whatever.
Come on, don't be disingenuous, you need more than a bus ticket if you don't live close to the border of a state that allows abortions.
Your whole trip will most likely take three days or more (getting there, getting the procedure, coming back), so you need at least two days in a hotel/Airbnb. You will have to get off work for those days as well, that is cost as well.
That could be around 300$ together if you don't have any vacation/sick days, on top of the cost of the procedure itself. And it's not like you can save up that money over several weeks/months either, when you need an abortion every day counts. Contrary to some media, those affected don't want to wait until the last possible day.
Some people really only have money for the bare necessities. And they are the ones who really should have access to an abortion because a baby wouldn't improve their situation in the slightest.
Being poor isn't a choice in most cases. Learned helplessness might play a role, but telling them "just get a bus ticket, lul" won't change that.
Ain't a "might" about learned helplessness. The amount of rationalization in this day and age about people failing so hard of their own accord that they don't have 300 bucks is fucking pathetic. Like just fucking do something, anything, except continue doing the same thing. Sell some fucking drugs, why not, quick financial.boost and go.
Have they tried just not being poor?
Its surprisingly effective
Exactly, just pop down to the Free Drugs in Bulk For Resale bank and you're good to go!
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
If not, you should seriously reconsider yourself.
Have you ever tried to get anything?
Too poor? Just crime!
FFS
I've never defined my morality by what the government says, is why I suggested to something, that something not being theft though.
It doesn't matter if it's moral, it's dangerous. Cash business in a significant volume, that you can't insure or make meaningful contracts for.
Your suggestion of doing high risk things to make money is the same as a suggestion to gamble to get money.
You fucking people are so risk adverse, it's no wonder you'd rather be slaves to the state rather than try
Pragmatism is slavery... I'm gonna think on that
You in the states? The people who designed your government were generally of that opinion, something about trading liberty for security and all that
No lol
Dumb removed
Actually I agree, it’s far easier to simply let things continue the way they are than to take a leap of faith.
My dad had been talking about leaving the country since we were kids, he just said he wanted to wait for us to go off to college first. But nobody really believed him - he was an underpaid college professor with little to no life savings.
But when Covid hit he sold his house, sold his car, and grabbed a one way ticket to Ecuador. He went down without ever having been, not knowing where he’d end up living, and is now 2 years later living his best life. I visited him and it’s heaven, I’m honestly jealous.
Edit: For those of you downvoting, his “house” was a shitty condo in Jersey and his car was an old nearly broken Honda Fit. He didn’t get much from either.
Hey, if you're poor, just sell your house and your car, that you have when you poor. Everyone has at least couple of houses to sell, right?
I think my landlord would be pissed if I sold my apartment. But hey, since I’m going to Ecuador maybe I can find a sucker and be gone before he notices haha.
OK maybe not everybody but you can always wait for your inheritance, right?
Edit: do I really need to add /s? Or why the downvotes?
My dad is more poor than I am, he just signed a 20 year mortgage at 70 and he is much closer to his 5 step kids. I am getting nothing. What next?
Edit: He at least was able to get a mortgage so maybe "more poor than I am" isn't true.
Your dad had a house and a car to sell
A fucking house is "little to no life savings"? Can you hear yourself?!
It was a shitty condo. You guys are insane lol
So, like, surely you realize people need homes and jobs and stuff right? You can't just hop on the next bus to freedom town and hope for the best, that's a child's view of emigration.
I've literally done that in the past, when things weren't so good. I guess I hadn't been told adults just stay, whine and rot.
adults just stay, whine and rot.
Actually, we usually kill ourselves. Why do you think America has skyrocketing suicide and overdose rates?
If you literally bought a bus ticket with nothing else to your name and somehow survived, you're basically just a lottery winner. That's not a sound financial strategy!
If you literally bought a bus ticket with nothing else to your name and somehow survived, you're basically just a lottery winner.
Lots of people do this, what’re you talking about? You should honestly try it, it’s freeing.
Delusional
Lots of people end up homeless or in prison or or shacking up with whoever will take them in or doing the kind of work they never wanted in their life or dead. This is a shithole country, throwing away your life to go to Dreamsville is stupid af and, honestly, I don't even believe you.
If I wanted that kind of freedom I'd just take out my 9mm retirement plan early, rather than my current plan of waiting until I'm too old to work.
See, this is exactly the mindset leaves people trapped. I love how you throw "doing work" in with prison, dead, etc.
I was more thinking of being forced to do degrading, humiliating, disgusting, or unsafe work. Or, y'know, illegal under-the-table shit. Whatever it takes to get by, no matter how hard it is or how unpredictable the hours are or how much the employerr screws you over.
At that point, what was the fuckin point of moving anyway? Out of the frying pan and into the fire 🙄
Sure. I beleive you, it's not like you might have said what you really thought, nobody openly espousing communism has ever been scared of hard work.
Bus ticket, abortion cost, food and lodging for the duration, lost wages for the time it has taken.
Also what if this is a mother already? Childcare costs while you are gone.
I am sure I have missed a lot as well.
You need to drastically work on your empathy my friend.
please stop with the "Just Leave." we can't all just leave and i tire of hearing it. what limitations and obligations keep you where you are?
and if you genuinely can Just Leave wherever you are, reflect for awhile on your privilege, then try to recognize how many people do not have that option for any number of reasons.
sometimes i think this sentiment is only a little less tone-deaf than "just have a baby."
Well, hopefully you can get enough people to get over the hurdles you have to vote for actual change.
Have you seen the state of gerrymandering in Texas? They know their positions are unpopular abominations against democracy, so they’ve worked furtively to dismantle democracy so they can get away with this shit.
Yes, for the love of humanity, VOTE. But never believe that’s all you can or must do. We outnumber them, and they need to be reminded of that in more ways than one.
Gerrymandering doesn't explain why we reelected Greg "It could've been worse" Abbott.
In Texas, "leaving" can be a 10-hour drive and we still border with plenty of states that highly restrict abortion.
The people who are saying leave, are the ones seeing you as the frog slowly boiling, but not realizing it until it's too late.
Of course it sucks. Of course you might have to build life anew, but a real life beats a kettle that's heating up.
All I'm saying it's not black and white, and many probably already left or are in the process.
Okay, and? That doesn't change a thing braxy said. What if you've been aware for years of the pot getting hotter and hotter and have had every desire to leave but don't have the ability to? Those that have left were in a position in which they had the means to do so. Those that want to but can't for any number of reasons (finances, family, health, etc. etc.) don't have much choice.
Some of us also want to cool down the pot instead. I'd rather swim in my pot than someone else's.
My take is that there's nothing wrong in saying leave, or people leaving. But I also agreed that it's not possible for everyone, or not all want to - until perhaps something is too late.
I don't understand why the people who can't/won't/don't want to take offense from it, when it's a viable option for many.
And your take is at best tone deaf and at worst disingenuous.
People take offense because no one says, well, if you have the opportunity, and you don't like it, leave.
People just say, if you don't like it, leave. While ignoring that leaving is a privilege for most (how many is many anyway when most are living paycheck to paycheck).
So, I find your comment offensive. This one in particular. I don't need to read the rest of the comment thread because this one hot take was plenty enough.
Are most people honestly living from paycheck to another? I find that quite difficult to believe. Then again I'm Finnish and not American, so that's probably why I can't see the big picture from a local pov. Just seems.. baffling.
The median savings in the US is 5k. The median monthly expense is 4k.
That gives most people in the US a one month cushion. That's paycheck to paycheck.
If you make 5k and spend 4k a month, while having 5k savings, that's not pay check to pay check. Close though, but what the term implies is 0 surplus, all that you make goes before next pay.
I mean I hear you I was liberal with the definition when I looked up the savings figures.
It's not enough to move states to avoid right wing oppression. Which was really the point I was making. That most people can't simply leave if they don't like the situation.
I forgot part of the equation.
Median savings 4k. Median debt is around 50k. Median monthly income 5k.
Most people are actually worse than pay check to pay check.
What about the child rape victims who have zero agency? What about the disabled who are completely reliant on others? What about people who have court orders barring them from leaving for whatever reason? What about those for whom leaving would mean abandoning their children to an abusive spouse who has custody?
I could name reasons that’s not feasible for many, many people, but the bottom line is that may work for privileged people, but our responsibility is to care for all of us, and saying ‘sucks to be you’ is not a solution any of us should accept.
If the reason you’re staying is family, then maybe you need to rethink your priorities. Never let blood keep you from doing what you want to do or being who you want to be. You can serve your family better when you succeed at reaching your goals.
Translation. "I ate, world hunger solved".
This is akin to saying that you should abandon a dog or child when they're bleeding immensely. If I can take care of myself, I can take care of people who need me, family or not.
Leave, though. If enough people leave, only then will they realize how stupid they are. Your ancestors left the old countries on ships to the New World with only the clothes on their backs. Time for you Americans to emigrate elsewhere.
Fund their moves or shut the fuck up
Thank you.
People are funding it. But it's not enough
I searched quickly, but I couldn’t find anything. If there was like a Patreon or something where I could give $50/mo to help people get the fuck out of shitty states or situations, I’d do it. Know any?
I don't know any. If you want to help, ask them where to send the money. Alls I'm saying is, don't just advise someone to "just leave" without offering any resources to help them leave
There are plenty of organizations helping refugees all over the world. UNHCR is probably the most established, being affiliated with the UN. They would probably help out if you need to flee from your government. https://www.unrefugees.org/
"It is impossible for me to leave"
"ThEn YoU ShOuLd LeAvE!"
Are you illiterate?
It’s never impossible, you could literally sell everything you own and go anywhere.
But most people won’t because that’s terrifying.
It's not. It never is. This is self defeatist rationalizing.
If it was easy enough for a significant amount of people to leave, the Republicans would love it because they could force out almost everyone that wouldn't vote for them
I have zero faith in republicans realizing any facts.
we're fairly well off but my wifes job is at a university, how do I move several campuses, the student body and the rest of the staff with us?
No, the Puritans were well-funded twats. Also, Texas isn't America, I suppose everyone refers to France as Europe?
What will happen is the few that can't afford to leave Texas will remain in an oppressive state run by psychopaths with no chance to free themselves. Those that can stay and fight, probably should, but it's also a huge ask to have people just trying to survive day-to-day also have to fight their shitty government back into the hell-hole from whence it came. They also have to deal with their own Texas neighbors who are too dumb to understand how repressed they are and actually like the direction that state is heading, as their own rights and freedoms are stripped away from underneath them.
It turns out that moving costs money, the cost of living varies greatly in surrounding states, Texas is huge, and with more than 60% of Americans living paycheck-to-paycheck, the incidental expenses that pop up from a move would be too great for more than 60% of Americans. That's even if they could find a job on the receiving end.
You clearly don't know the challenges of leaving a country and moving to e.g. the EU or Australia or something, or any other country for that matter. Countries are extremely selective of who they want in, they likely won't accept someone unless they work in a specialization that the country is in a shortage of and is in demand. Most of the world has laws that you can't accept someone for work in a country unless you can prove that they can't find a citizen of the country to fill the position first, and afterwards they have to sponsor a work visa for you which is a lot of time, money, and paperwork for the company, so they often avoid it. It's also a lot of time, money, and paperwork for you.
You can also work as a digital nomad provided you have enough money saved up and can sustain yourself on self-employment (you're not allowed to work under an employer on these visas), but generally this requires moving between different countries a lot because this is not a path to permanent residency. Some countries have treaties with the US that have a similar, but more lenient, process, for example the DAFT for the Netherlands which basically allows self-employed entrepeneurs to reside in the Netherlands as long as you can sustain yourself the entire time without government aid, and have a spare ~€4500 in a Dutch bank account that you can't withdraw from at all times.
The other option is trying to get residence or citizenship by descent if you have a parent within 1-4 generations and meet certain criteria depending on what the citizenship laws of the country are – I'm in the process of trying to do this with an adoptive Slovak/Hungarian great-grandparent and adoptive German great-grandparent right now, and I can verify myself that this is also an extremely expensive and time-consuming process that I'm not sure if I can even afford to continue in the future, and the worst part is I don't even know if it will pay off because my situation is a little fuzzy and possibly doesn't count. If that doesn't work, I'm absolutely out of luck for moving out of the US; I've tracked down a majority of my biological ancestors in the past 3 centuries and none of them in the past 200 years are from outside of the US. My ancestry for basically until you get to around the 1500s or 1600s is entirely American, English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, German, Dutch, Belgian, and French, which I'm pretty sure qualifies me for the most white Anglo-Saxon American here.
There's one other viable choice too – attending university at another country. The problem is there are a lot of criteria you have to meet to be elligible for this in the first place (for one you have to be very young, they usually won't accept people who are past their 20s), often times American diplomas and 2-year degrees aren't seen as qualifying you for college outside of the US (in Germany they have the "Abitur" as a requirement for university instead of a diploma, which is somewhat more rigorous than an Associate's degree, and the only way they accept your high school education as enough is if you gained specific credits and pass a few AP tests while in high school, and they don't count doing those credits in college it HAS to be while you're in high school), it's highly competitive, universities are required to only accept foreigners after they've accepted all applicants who are citizens; and it can be incredibly expensive unless you're going to a country which has no tuition costs and cheap student housing, which less and less countries are doing (Norway recently closed off free tuition for new non-European applicants).
The last options available aren't viable for a majority of people, but I'll list them out anyway. For one, you can spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars on property in some countries in exchange for a residence visa, a la Spain, Portugal, Cyprus' Golden Visa programs.
Otherwise, if you can't afford that (most people trying to escape the US or poorer countries can't), you can go through literal hell and join the French Foreign Legion at a chance to ask for citizenship of France after a few years – but this is a TERRIBLE decision for anyone to make, the FFL isn't just a group of soldiers, their entire training is basically abusing you with the worst conditions they can in order to weed out those who aren't extremely tough, and the soldiers are put in the most intense, mind-and-body breaking deployments imaginable. It is scary and most people aren't built for it psychologically nor physically. Plus you're not even guaranteed citizenship, even after serving the 3-year period a lot of people are denied it.
TL;DR, the ability to move out of a country/free-travel-area is relatively exclusive and inaccessible to most people, and only gets less realistic as time goes on due to both age and growing anti-immigrant sentiment in many countries. If you're part of a group subject to a country's systematic social & economic issues (i.e. not already in a privileged/well-off position where you can already afford to fund your education or have got the education to work in a highly wanted specialization), it's practically impossible to migrate to one of the countries that you'll have more opportunities in, even if you are part of the potential third of Americans who might qualify for citizenship by descent. It's the reason so many people risk their lives and freedom to illegally cross the border into the US and Europe every year, in a place where the system is against you it's unlikely most people have access to the means to legally move away.
Bus ticket is so fucking cheap, if you can't leave, it's not time to whine about others' privilege, its time to look in the mirror. Or some water in a puddle, whatever.
Come on, don't be disingenuous, you need more than a bus ticket if you don't live close to the border of a state that allows abortions.
Your whole trip will most likely take three days or more (getting there, getting the procedure, coming back), so you need at least two days in a hotel/Airbnb. You will have to get off work for those days as well, that is cost as well.
That could be around 300$ together if you don't have any vacation/sick days, on top of the cost of the procedure itself. And it's not like you can save up that money over several weeks/months either, when you need an abortion every day counts. Contrary to some media, those affected don't want to wait until the last possible day.
Some people really only have money for the bare necessities. And they are the ones who really should have access to an abortion because a baby wouldn't improve their situation in the slightest.
Being poor isn't a choice in most cases. Learned helplessness might play a role, but telling them "just get a bus ticket, lul" won't change that.
Ain't a "might" about learned helplessness. The amount of rationalization in this day and age about people failing so hard of their own accord that they don't have 300 bucks is fucking pathetic. Like just fucking do something, anything, except continue doing the same thing. Sell some fucking drugs, why not, quick financial.boost and go.
Have they tried just not being poor?
Its surprisingly effective
Exactly, just pop down to the Free Drugs in Bulk For Resale bank and you're good to go!
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
If not, you should seriously reconsider yourself.
Have you ever tried to get anything?
Too poor? Just crime!
FFS
I've never defined my morality by what the government says, is why I suggested to something, that something not being theft though.
It doesn't matter if it's moral, it's dangerous. Cash business in a significant volume, that you can't insure or make meaningful contracts for.
Your suggestion of doing high risk things to make money is the same as a suggestion to gamble to get money.
You fucking people are so risk adverse, it's no wonder you'd rather be slaves to the state rather than try
Pragmatism is slavery... I'm gonna think on that
You in the states? The people who designed your government were generally of that opinion, something about trading liberty for security and all that
No lol
Dumb removed
Actually I agree, it’s far easier to simply let things continue the way they are than to take a leap of faith.
My dad had been talking about leaving the country since we were kids, he just said he wanted to wait for us to go off to college first. But nobody really believed him - he was an underpaid college professor with little to no life savings.
But when Covid hit he sold his house, sold his car, and grabbed a one way ticket to Ecuador. He went down without ever having been, not knowing where he’d end up living, and is now 2 years later living his best life. I visited him and it’s heaven, I’m honestly jealous.
Edit: For those of you downvoting, his “house” was a shitty condo in Jersey and his car was an old nearly broken Honda Fit. He didn’t get much from either.
Hey, if you're poor, just sell your house and your car, that you have when you poor. Everyone has at least couple of houses to sell, right?
I think my landlord would be pissed if I sold my apartment. But hey, since I’m going to Ecuador maybe I can find a sucker and be gone before he notices haha.
OK maybe not everybody but you can always wait for your inheritance, right?
Edit: do I really need to add /s? Or why the downvotes?
My dad is more poor than I am, he just signed a 20 year mortgage at 70 and he is much closer to his 5 step kids. I am getting nothing. What next?
Edit: He at least was able to get a mortgage so maybe "more poor than I am" isn't true.
Your dad had a house and a car to sell
A fucking house is "little to no life savings"? Can you hear yourself?!
It was a shitty condo. You guys are insane lol
So, like, surely you realize people need homes and jobs and stuff right? You can't just hop on the next bus to freedom town and hope for the best, that's a child's view of emigration.
I've literally done that in the past, when things weren't so good. I guess I hadn't been told adults just stay, whine and rot.
Actually, we usually kill ourselves. Why do you think America has skyrocketing suicide and overdose rates?
If you literally bought a bus ticket with nothing else to your name and somehow survived, you're basically just a lottery winner. That's not a sound financial strategy!
Lots of people do this, what’re you talking about? You should honestly try it, it’s freeing.
Delusional
Lots of people end up homeless or in prison or or shacking up with whoever will take them in or doing the kind of work they never wanted in their life or dead. This is a shithole country, throwing away your life to go to Dreamsville is stupid af and, honestly, I don't even believe you.
If I wanted that kind of freedom I'd just take out my 9mm retirement plan early, rather than my current plan of waiting until I'm too old to work.
See, this is exactly the mindset leaves people trapped. I love how you throw "doing work" in with prison, dead, etc.
I was more thinking of being forced to do degrading, humiliating, disgusting, or unsafe work. Or, y'know, illegal under-the-table shit. Whatever it takes to get by, no matter how hard it is or how unpredictable the hours are or how much the employerr screws you over.
At that point, what was the fuckin point of moving anyway? Out of the frying pan and into the fire 🙄
Sure. I beleive you, it's not like you might have said what you really thought, nobody openly espousing communism has ever been scared of hard work.
I'm literally a welding press operator lol
Bus ticket, abortion cost, food and lodging for the duration, lost wages for the time it has taken. Also what if this is a mother already? Childcare costs while you are gone.
I am sure I have missed a lot as well.
You need to drastically work on your empathy my friend.