"Sorry, this job doesn't seem like a good fit or healthy working environment. Have a good rest of your day"
He’s too Chad to be left alive.
I’ll bring you his pen to prove he’s been dealt with. That will only be $45,000.
It's not even his pen, he stole it from an interviewer!
And then you steal the pen.
I'm an Engineer. I am not customer facing. Put my pen back.
In fact, if a customer accidentally enters your office,you hiss and hide your face in your cowl like an old school vampire being exposed to sunlight.
I hate cold air blowing on me, and I always wear my hoodie inside. So this is accurate.
Hoodies are the most elite form of clothing and I will die on this hill. So adjustable 😊
take the pen and leave. when they ask for the pen back, say it's $10.
And if they don't care about the pen at all?
free pen
I like your gumption, son. How would you like to come work for me at my company?
I got a sales job offer on the spot by first highlighting the limited use of a single pen and without extra's on hand its negative business impacts. Then stated I had tons of pens available in my car and positioned selling them at least 100, but recommended they acquire 1000+ as this prevents potential issues plus gets them a better deal. Pretty solid approach in my experience.
Selling is an art... and this is why I'm not in sales. I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince somebody to buy something.
True sales is just filling a need, sometimes the customer knows they need it but others are unaware of it. Good sales reps will not sell something unless it makes sense for everyone involved.
Sales has fuck-all to do with filling a need. Sales is the invention of problems for which the only solution is the liberal application of money.
Engineering is filling a need.
OK, so engineers provide their solution to a problem to end users for free? Engineers still need marketing and sales to further improve an invention as well as allow others to understand its use case.
Oh ok- good luck getting your little field/product/item out into the world all on your own...
Well, you're clearly not an engineer.
Based on the way you're attempting to "sell" the role of salesman, you don't seem to have the skillset required for that role either.
Aspiring mid-level manager, perhaps?
No shitstain- I'm a pilot and don't have anything to do with either engineering or marketing. I also run my own company. I'm also extremely welltraveled, educated, and experienced. Which is why I know that very obviously an engineer on his own is worthless. Any company without marketing is worthless.any company with only marketing and no product is worthless. Grow the fuck up.
Ok, Captain.
Just out of curiosity, where exactly did I say that salespeople aren't important? I merely rejected the characterization that salespeople are problem solvers. They are not. Engineers solve the problem, salespeople convince customers that they have the problem.
Hey genius you remember the part where you said salespeople don't help fill a need and I pointed out engineers on their own also don't fill a need? That's the part where you said they aren't important and engineers are important. Then you carried on to try to characterize someone you have no knowledge on as an "aspiring mid-level manager". Go get fucked you goddamn nerd.
The condescending, abusive attitude you demonstrate is common to people who peter-principle at mid-level management. You told me everything I need to know about your business acumen.
The context of comment was the salesperson's relationship with the customer, not the business. Salespeople do not fill a customer need. The purpose of a salesperson is to extract money from the customer, by convincing the customer that 1. They have a problem; and 2. Their problem can only be solved with money.
And your condescending "know-it-all" attitude that you've demonstrated is typical of the junior/entry level engineer who thinks he's more than he is. You've told me all I need to know about your business and life experience.
An engineer without a salesperson is useless as someone like yourself would never be able to have funding nor support to provide a need to anyone.
Very obviously marketing and sales look for needs that are not being met and attempt to let a potential customer know that they have a product that could meet said need.
Fucking toolbag. You have no clue hiw the world really works and your inflated sense of self worth is especially galling. If you'd just not try to belittle an entire sphere of work other than your this entire conversation never would have happened. As it is you can't imagine someone else actually has just as much to do with getting needs met other than engineering.
The only sales job I’ve ever had was like this, luckily for me. We were taught to spend more time listening than talking. It was very low pressure, and more like problem solving than your stereotypical, pushy kind of selling. I would have been terrible at that.
Yea, I was never exactly in sales (Geek Squad in store employee is the closest I ever came) but I remember thinking everyone who was like lets get rid of commission in retail sales were very mislead. I still remember the difference in Sears employees in the 90s when I first got a PC and the salesman actually knew to look at the box of the game I was trying to buy and make sure it'd run on my PC before selling it to me. I also remember them knowing about the stuff they sold. This is because with commission, even in small towns you could make a career of it and you'd have actual experienced staff in the stores. As far as I could ever tell, the good salespeople wanted you to trust them, and not to just make a one time huge sale - they wanted you to come back again and again.
Once they all went to non-commission, I recall that being a "selling point" of the stores, but now all you had was a rotating cast of highschool and college summer workers who cared exactly as much as minimum wage paid them to care... i.e. not at all. And they occasionally became unable to even read the boxes they were "selling". It turned them into less efficient cash register attendants.
Exactly, sales isn't easy but customer retention makes the job easier. If a customer has a great experience, they tend to be repeat customers and even tell their friends. Word of mouth undoubtedly being the most effective marketing method makes non pushy sales the best approach for sure.
Just cross your arms, smile wryly, and comment on how pathetic the Interviewer's pen is. Cheap material, runny ink, a grip that's painful to hold. Wish him good luck in taking notes on subsequent interviews.
Then lean in, and say "But, you know? I've got a premium writing utensil. It's crafted in the Netherlands by a Space Age engineering firm. It's designed to fit comfortably between your fingers. And the Indian ink that runs through it glistens and glides smoothly through a specially crafted tip."
Pull out a business card with absolutely beautiful handwriting on it. Just as he expresses surprise and interest, sigh and say "But... It's really not for you. It's really more of a thing for your boss, or your boss's boss."
Start getting up to leave, and wait for him to come running after you.
Only downside is that, according to The Game, his pen will inevitably want to sleep with you after all that negging
God, that book sucked. I read it out of curiosity, but it was trash.
This pen is mine but I’ll let you borrow it for a month for free.
After a month it will be $5 per use. Or you can choose an $8/month option for an ongoing pen subscription. Think of that, you only need to use the pen TWICE this whole month to have maximized the pen value.
If you need different pens sometimes, for just $11.50/month I’ll get you access to my other two pen colours. These can be booked online using an exclusive, easy to use app.
Again, pen is totally free right now for one whole month so you can just go ahead and start using it. I just need to grab your credit card information to make future borrowing of the pen as convenient as possible for you.
Tell you that it's A) a stupid question B) things that amateurs might do to sell you the pen and C) not answering the question.
"No, it's mine, go and buy one by yourself"
And now you've got a pen that you didn't have at the start of the interview, and you've given capitalism a lesson of capitalism.
I got my first job at 15 answering this question. I sold cordless (not cellular, cordless) phones at Sears
The "easy" answer to this question is to pick up the pen, then ask the interviewer if they can write something down. They'll look for a pen, which you're holding. You smile, and say, "if you'd like, I have something to assist with that request..." and trail off a bit. Some people will laugh at this joke and it's enough for them to pass the test. Personally, I'm not a fan of this method.
My 15 year old self hadn't heard this question before, so I just picked the pen up and started listing the wonderful qualities of this pen, and how quickly your life would be enhanced if you had it. "It has the deepest of royal blue hues, with a rich writing sensation and smooth flow on the paper. The grip allows for ultimate comfort, so the pen is usable all day long without any soreness in the fingers or hand. It's so well shaped and ergonomical, you can barely feel it in your hand. And with the above-industry-standard sized ink chamber, you'll be able to use this pen far longer than the competition. This pen has both the value and form that the modern consumer has come to expect in their premium pen buying experience."
And so forth. Basically, do sales stuff
I was also asked this question at 15 while being interviewed by the local Sears. I went on to sell shoes though. Cordless phones would have been cool.
Bullshit that only true bullshitters can spew.
Isn't the whole idea of the pen sale pitch that you basically have to ignore the pen?
Pen boy : Do not try and sell the pen. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo : What truth?
Pen boy : There is no pen.
Neo : There is no pen?
Pen boy : Then you'll see, that it is not the pen that sells, it is only yourself.
Yes. As long as the answer doesn't focus on the pen itself then it's a good answer.
Step one: ask what the person’s use case is, then match it. It’s a standard interview trap to present this “sell this pen” thing as a test where the “potential customer” needs to prop up their window or poke a hole in a balloon or something stupid like that, just so they can turn down the people who hype up the writing capabilities. Always ask what they need first.
I sold cars for a year. During the initial onboarding we were asked to "sell a pen" to the trainer.
Everyone jumped right in to selling the qualities of the pen they had in hand.
At the end of the exercise the trainer said, "I'm looking for a pencil".
The point was, don't assume what the customer is looking for. Ask qualifying questions and identify 3-5 hot buttons, then based on what should be knowledge of the inventory and inventory of surrounding dealerships (yeah, they're all connected to some degree), make recommendations that fit their needs.
Then describe all the ways it could fulfill their wants using positive, yes questions. Don't ask a question you don't know the answer to. We were taught that it takes 5-10 Yes responses to offset the negative mental energy from a question asked resulting in a No - so we weren't supposed to mess that up. That was just one of numerous psychological plays we were taught and forced to use or get threatened with being fired or having bonuses taken away.
The whole training series was bullshit. And I say it was bullshit because it sucked playing all these games on people. Yeah, 1/5 of the time it didn't work because they caught on. But the amount of times it actually worked made me feel guilty and sad.
The amount of times you put someone into a car they couldn't afford because you successfully sold them on their wants and not their needs was awful.
I quit near the end of that year because fuck car sales and fuck car dealerships. This was 15 years ago, so who knows what it's like now.
Also, because I assume someone might ask (lol assuming, I fail), this was for a conglomerate that owned 5 used car lots, a Scion lot, a Toyota lot, a Lexus lot, and oddly a Ford & Chevy lot. Last I heard they're just down to a Lexus lot and one used car lot now. Apparently the mortgage bubble and COVID hit them hard. Fine by me.
I did not know this!
"Sell me this pen"
"Okay." *takes pen "Write down your name."
"I need a pen."
"Exactly. Supply and demand."
What the flux do you need a pen for? Now, let me show you these unique single pixel NFTs...
"Okay, so let's say you hire me as a senior engineer. I put in a request for a gross of these pens for my office; price 50¢ apiece; total seventy-two bucks plus shipping and tax. Do you sign off on it?"
Why would I sell you something you already own? That's obviously your pen, so I don't have the rights to try and sell it. That would be a clear ethical violation.
Governments selling shares in nationalised industries to the public ...
How to Russia
Say we only sell pens on pen island.
I worked with the guy who owned https://www.penisland.net/. He actually made some laser engraved pens and pass them around work. Man, Earthlink Cloud in the late 2000s was a blast.
As a proud citizen of Penisland, this offends me gravely! 😤
“Don’t need to: you’ve already bought it.”
put the pen in your pocket and ask "what pen?"
I give you 2 dollar if you take this pen.
(Because everyone has too many pens already and wouldn't even want one for $0.01 and I want to get rid of this pen or else have to pay for its recycling)
It's about selling the pen and not making a profit, right?
Fuck you, it's my pen.
Ask them if they've ever watched Casino and smile
"Do you need a pen?"
People buy based on what they want to be. Sell the pen in a way that makes the buyer think this product is the one thing they needed to finally get started on their goals and become the version of themself they built in their heads.
Yup. I call it the Steve Jobs principle. He wasn't selling the hardware. He was selling a vision of success that you could only achieve with his products.
* teleports behind you with p3n and k1lls y0u * it's nothing personnel kiddo
"Sorry, this job doesn't seem like a good fit or healthy working environment. Have a good rest of your day"
He’s too Chad to be left alive.
I’ll bring you his pen to prove he’s been dealt with. That will only be $45,000.
It's not even his pen, he stole it from an interviewer!
And then you steal the pen.
I'm an Engineer. I am not customer facing. Put my pen back.
In fact, if a customer accidentally enters your office,you hiss and hide your face in your cowl like an old school vampire being exposed to sunlight.
I hate cold air blowing on me, and I always wear my hoodie inside. So this is accurate.
Hoodies are the most elite form of clothing and I will die on this hill. So adjustable 😊
take the pen and leave. when they ask for the pen back, say it's $10.
And if they don't care about the pen at all?
free pen
I like your gumption, son. How would you like to come work for me at my company?
I got a sales job offer on the spot by first highlighting the limited use of a single pen and without extra's on hand its negative business impacts. Then stated I had tons of pens available in my car and positioned selling them at least 100, but recommended they acquire 1000+ as this prevents potential issues plus gets them a better deal. Pretty solid approach in my experience.
Selling is an art... and this is why I'm not in sales. I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince somebody to buy something.
True sales is just filling a need, sometimes the customer knows they need it but others are unaware of it. Good sales reps will not sell something unless it makes sense for everyone involved.
Sales has fuck-all to do with filling a need. Sales is the invention of problems for which the only solution is the liberal application of money.
Engineering is filling a need.
OK, so engineers provide their solution to a problem to end users for free? Engineers still need marketing and sales to further improve an invention as well as allow others to understand its use case.
Oh ok- good luck getting your little field/product/item out into the world all on your own...
Well, you're clearly not an engineer.
Based on the way you're attempting to "sell" the role of salesman, you don't seem to have the skillset required for that role either.
Aspiring mid-level manager, perhaps?
No shitstain- I'm a pilot and don't have anything to do with either engineering or marketing. I also run my own company. I'm also extremely welltraveled, educated, and experienced. Which is why I know that very obviously an engineer on his own is worthless. Any company without marketing is worthless.any company with only marketing and no product is worthless. Grow the fuck up.
Ok, Captain.
Just out of curiosity, where exactly did I say that salespeople aren't important? I merely rejected the characterization that salespeople are problem solvers. They are not. Engineers solve the problem, salespeople convince customers that they have the problem.
Hey genius you remember the part where you said salespeople don't help fill a need and I pointed out engineers on their own also don't fill a need? That's the part where you said they aren't important and engineers are important. Then you carried on to try to characterize someone you have no knowledge on as an "aspiring mid-level manager". Go get fucked you goddamn nerd.
The condescending, abusive attitude you demonstrate is common to people who peter-principle at mid-level management. You told me everything I need to know about your business acumen.
The context of comment was the salesperson's relationship with the customer, not the business. Salespeople do not fill a customer need. The purpose of a salesperson is to extract money from the customer, by convincing the customer that 1. They have a problem; and 2. Their problem can only be solved with money.
And your condescending "know-it-all" attitude that you've demonstrated is typical of the junior/entry level engineer who thinks he's more than he is. You've told me all I need to know about your business and life experience.
An engineer without a salesperson is useless as someone like yourself would never be able to have funding nor support to provide a need to anyone.
Very obviously marketing and sales look for needs that are not being met and attempt to let a potential customer know that they have a product that could meet said need.
Fucking toolbag. You have no clue hiw the world really works and your inflated sense of self worth is especially galling. If you'd just not try to belittle an entire sphere of work other than your this entire conversation never would have happened. As it is you can't imagine someone else actually has just as much to do with getting needs met other than engineering.
The only sales job I’ve ever had was like this, luckily for me. We were taught to spend more time listening than talking. It was very low pressure, and more like problem solving than your stereotypical, pushy kind of selling. I would have been terrible at that.
Yea, I was never exactly in sales (Geek Squad in store employee is the closest I ever came) but I remember thinking everyone who was like lets get rid of commission in retail sales were very mislead. I still remember the difference in Sears employees in the 90s when I first got a PC and the salesman actually knew to look at the box of the game I was trying to buy and make sure it'd run on my PC before selling it to me. I also remember them knowing about the stuff they sold. This is because with commission, even in small towns you could make a career of it and you'd have actual experienced staff in the stores. As far as I could ever tell, the good salespeople wanted you to trust them, and not to just make a one time huge sale - they wanted you to come back again and again.
Once they all went to non-commission, I recall that being a "selling point" of the stores, but now all you had was a rotating cast of highschool and college summer workers who cared exactly as much as minimum wage paid them to care... i.e. not at all. And they occasionally became unable to even read the boxes they were "selling". It turned them into less efficient cash register attendants.
Exactly, sales isn't easy but customer retention makes the job easier. If a customer has a great experience, they tend to be repeat customers and even tell their friends. Word of mouth undoubtedly being the most effective marketing method makes non pushy sales the best approach for sure.
Just cross your arms, smile wryly, and comment on how pathetic the Interviewer's pen is. Cheap material, runny ink, a grip that's painful to hold. Wish him good luck in taking notes on subsequent interviews.
Then lean in, and say "But, you know? I've got a premium writing utensil. It's crafted in the Netherlands by a Space Age engineering firm. It's designed to fit comfortably between your fingers. And the Indian ink that runs through it glistens and glides smoothly through a specially crafted tip."
Pull out a business card with absolutely beautiful handwriting on it. Just as he expresses surprise and interest, sigh and say "But... It's really not for you. It's really more of a thing for your boss, or your boss's boss."
Start getting up to leave, and wait for him to come running after you.
Only downside is that, according to The Game, his pen will inevitably want to sleep with you after all that negging
God, that book sucked. I read it out of curiosity, but it was trash.
This pen is mine but I’ll let you borrow it for a month for free.
After a month it will be $5 per use. Or you can choose an $8/month option for an ongoing pen subscription. Think of that, you only need to use the pen TWICE this whole month to have maximized the pen value.
If you need different pens sometimes, for just $11.50/month I’ll get you access to my other two pen colours. These can be booked online using an exclusive, easy to use app.
Again, pen is totally free right now for one whole month so you can just go ahead and start using it. I just need to grab your credit card information to make future borrowing of the pen as convenient as possible for you.
Tell you that it's A) a stupid question B) things that amateurs might do to sell you the pen and C) not answering the question.
"No, it's mine, go and buy one by yourself"
And now you've got a pen that you didn't have at the start of the interview, and you've given capitalism a lesson of capitalism.
I got my first job at 15 answering this question. I sold cordless (not cellular, cordless) phones at Sears
The "easy" answer to this question is to pick up the pen, then ask the interviewer if they can write something down. They'll look for a pen, which you're holding. You smile, and say, "if you'd like, I have something to assist with that request..." and trail off a bit. Some people will laugh at this joke and it's enough for them to pass the test. Personally, I'm not a fan of this method.
My 15 year old self hadn't heard this question before, so I just picked the pen up and started listing the wonderful qualities of this pen, and how quickly your life would be enhanced if you had it. "It has the deepest of royal blue hues, with a rich writing sensation and smooth flow on the paper. The grip allows for ultimate comfort, so the pen is usable all day long without any soreness in the fingers or hand. It's so well shaped and ergonomical, you can barely feel it in your hand. And with the above-industry-standard sized ink chamber, you'll be able to use this pen far longer than the competition. This pen has both the value and form that the modern consumer has come to expect in their premium pen buying experience."
And so forth. Basically, do sales stuff
I was also asked this question at 15 while being interviewed by the local Sears. I went on to sell shoes though. Cordless phones would have been cool.
Bullshit that only true bullshitters can spew.
Isn't the whole idea of the pen sale pitch that you basically have to ignore the pen?
Yes. As long as the answer doesn't focus on the pen itself then it's a good answer.
Step one: ask what the person’s use case is, then match it. It’s a standard interview trap to present this “sell this pen” thing as a test where the “potential customer” needs to prop up their window or poke a hole in a balloon or something stupid like that, just so they can turn down the people who hype up the writing capabilities. Always ask what they need first.
I sold cars for a year. During the initial onboarding we were asked to "sell a pen" to the trainer.
Everyone jumped right in to selling the qualities of the pen they had in hand.
At the end of the exercise the trainer said, "I'm looking for a pencil".
The point was, don't assume what the customer is looking for. Ask qualifying questions and identify 3-5 hot buttons, then based on what should be knowledge of the inventory and inventory of surrounding dealerships (yeah, they're all connected to some degree), make recommendations that fit their needs.
Then describe all the ways it could fulfill their wants using positive, yes questions. Don't ask a question you don't know the answer to. We were taught that it takes 5-10 Yes responses to offset the negative mental energy from a question asked resulting in a No - so we weren't supposed to mess that up. That was just one of numerous psychological plays we were taught and forced to use or get threatened with being fired or having bonuses taken away.
The whole training series was bullshit. And I say it was bullshit because it sucked playing all these games on people. Yeah, 1/5 of the time it didn't work because they caught on. But the amount of times it actually worked made me feel guilty and sad.
The amount of times you put someone into a car they couldn't afford because you successfully sold them on their wants and not their needs was awful.
I quit near the end of that year because fuck car sales and fuck car dealerships. This was 15 years ago, so who knows what it's like now.
Also, because I assume someone might ask (lol assuming, I fail), this was for a conglomerate that owned 5 used car lots, a Scion lot, a Toyota lot, a Lexus lot, and oddly a Ford & Chevy lot. Last I heard they're just down to a Lexus lot and one used car lot now. Apparently the mortgage bubble and COVID hit them hard. Fine by me.
I did not know this!
"Sell me this pen"
"Okay." *takes pen "Write down your name."
"I need a pen."
"Exactly. Supply and demand."
What the flux do you need a pen for? Now, let me show you these unique single pixel NFTs...
"Okay, so let's say you hire me as a senior engineer. I put in a request for a gross of these pens for my office; price 50¢ apiece; total seventy-two bucks plus shipping and tax. Do you sign off on it?"
Why would I sell you something you already own? That's obviously your pen, so I don't have the rights to try and sell it. That would be a clear ethical violation.
Governments selling shares in nationalised industries to the public ...
How to Russia
Say we only sell pens on pen island.
I worked with the guy who owned https://www.penisland.net/. He actually made some laser engraved pens and pass them around work. Man, Earthlink Cloud in the late 2000s was a blast.
As a proud citizen of Penisland, this offends me gravely! 😤
“Don’t need to: you’ve already bought it.”
put the pen in your pocket and ask "what pen?"
I give you 2 dollar if you take this pen.
(Because everyone has too many pens already and wouldn't even want one for $0.01 and I want to get rid of this pen or else have to pay for its recycling)
It's about selling the pen and not making a profit, right?
Fuck you, it's my pen.
Ask them if they've ever watched Casino and smile
"Do you need a pen?"
People buy based on what they want to be. Sell the pen in a way that makes the buyer think this product is the one thing they needed to finally get started on their goals and become the version of themself they built in their heads.
Yup. I call it the Steve Jobs principle. He wasn't selling the hardware. He was selling a vision of success that you could only achieve with his products.
* teleports behind you with p3n and k1lls y0u * it's nothing personnel kiddo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UspZGJ-TrI