My country supports, finances, and obviously encourages genocide and I don't know how to stop it. I vote, I protest, I vote with my money yet there is no end in sight to the massacre.
I don't know how to stop it. I don't want to be party to innocent people being slaughtered anymore.
We can only do so much. Our country does not care in the slightest about its people, only corporations and billionaires
Have you tried voting harder?
Hardest
Sorry bro. I guess keep calling it out.
I guess it feels like not enough but that's all you have, I guess
I ...... I think I'm going to do exactly what the unintelligent say to. "If you dont love it, leave it". I'm going to leave.
No idea where im going, but I can't be a part of this anymore.
Well. I'm a New Zealander. We're not funding the genocide here but I feel just as powerless to do anything about it. Best of luck to you
Every dollar saved because of "defensive aid" gets spent on offensive weapons...
If they had to pay for their own defense, they wouldn't be able to start so many wars at once.
If they had to pay for their own defense they wouldn't exist.
Bombing other people isn't fucking self defense....
I have no issues with funding actual defense mechanisms like the iron dome and whatever. Small munitions, bulletproof vests, whatever you need to DEFEND your citizens I'm cool with. When it turns outward and you start "military operations" against other countries that's when I say good fucking luck on your own.
I have issue with supporting an apartheid state. I think aid should be conditioned on Israel granting full citizenship to Palestinians.
You want to give them even more power over Palestinians?
The opposite, granting Palestinians citizenship allows them to potentially control the government.
Compare that to any point in our lifetime, where Israel has been their defacto government: Palestinians must report each birth, each change of address to a "foreign" government. If they want to leave their country, they must seek permission from the "foreign" government. If they want to visit their family across town, they must present identification to a "foreign" government.
Citizenship ends apartheid.
Ah, I missed the "full" part. Yes, that would be great, but I don't doubt that they'd still be treated as second-class citizens.
That would make their version of parliament roughly half Palestinian. More if the right of return was generally enforced. (Just allowing them to move back into the country) So the resulting country would actually be pretty fair to them as long as the apartheid part really is gotten rid of.
Source for that?
They're trying to make sure other nations don't exist.
Sure, here's a professor of International relations in Israel:
Asked whether Israel could get by without US economic and diplomatic support, Benjamin Miller, Professor of International Relations, and the Director of the National Security Center at the University of Haifa, gives a one word answer - "No."
He’s talking about being able to continue the genocide.
But but we are pushing for a cease fire. What a smoke screen.
Normal people: “Israel is starting to become the aggressor”
Christian muricans: “B-b-but the b-bible!!”
Yo for real, my mom is one of those Bible nuts... Can't be reasoned with. "dead children are part of God's plan"
Stop doing this.
Doing what? Showing how the Biden administration and Democratic party are perfectly happy to help Israel kill children?
A Republican administration would be licking Bibi's butthole just as much, if not more. Let's not lose sight of the fact that Israel has overstepped the "defending itself" excuse, and is committing war crimes in their attempt to destroy Hamas by exterminating and land grabbing from the Palestinians (with Lebanon next). None of this should be funded by the US.
I don't think that's what they meant...
Geopolitics don't change, only the justification.
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Not funding this genocide, which Biden is fully capable of doing.
The alternatives to funding Israel's genocide?
Yes, realistic alternatives that would make the US government stop support for the genocide before it is finished.
Not funding the genocide and thereby stopping the genocide seems like a good alternative.
Yes, obviously. Any idea on how to convince the government to do that?
Protest.
Write to your representatives.
Withhold endorsement until one of the candidates adopts the policy position you (and a majority of Americans) prefer.
Stop giving money to Israel unless it's not usd for weapons 🤷
It's not complicated 😂
read my comment again
Biden is done. There's no comparison with Trump anymore.
Under US procurement rules, every dollar is to be spent for designated material. In this case, probably for Iron Dome rocket motors which the US supplies. So far this year Hezbolah has launched 8,000 iranian rockets into Isreal, yesterday 300. To object to this is to leave the citizens of Isreal defenseless.
To object to this is to leave the citizens of Isreal defenseless.
Because Israel is an impoverished nation which can't terrorise others without the US's funding?
So, there's a vote to leave them defenseless.
You're a joke.
Really? So you don't want to leave them defenseless?
You guys really are a bunch of cowards.
You're the coward for wanting to bomb civilians in the name of defense. Don't hide behind morals.
Well if you think what the Israeli do is morally wrong, then leaving them defenseless so they can be bombarded is morally wrong as well. But, don't let me stop you from proving that logic. Please proceed.
I don't think it's so clear what some of the money is going to. From the article:
the package includes $3.5 billion for “essential wartime procurement” [...] and a $5.2 billion grant for air defenses. The ministry said the $5.2 billion for air defenses “will significantly strengthen critical systems such as Iron Dome..."
With Hezbollah launching rockets towards civilians, I am in favor of strengthening the Iron Dome. But it sounds like that $3.5 billion could be to resupply Israel for their attacks on Gaza, thereby enabling new ones.
If it is earmarked for purely defensive equipment, it still indirectly funds their genocide by freeing up other money for it.
It also emboldens their attacks because they know there's less chance of successful counter-attack
"essential wartime procurement” indicates material that has previously supplied. This could be anything from bombs to training.
To object to this is to leave the citizens of Isreal defenseless.
Israel legally can't get any US aid or arms. Period. It's not ambiguous and maybe if they're left defenseless they'll consider maybe treating the people they're oppressing as... people.
So, let's not cower in the corner...are you voting to leave the Israeli citizens defenseless?
Yes. They're currently engaged in massive war crimes, including the use of starvation as a weapon as identified by the US State Department. They are absolutely ineligible for military aid.
But they aren't actually defenseless. They still have the most sophisticated military in the region.
Then you are no better than those that murderer on Oct9ber 7th and took hostages. Congratulations
And don't forget karma
Yes, withholding weapons from people murdering civilians is directly analogous to murdering civilians yourself.
Perfect logic. Unassailable.
Defenseless people where just what those Hamas wanted on Oct 7th. It seems you want the same thing.
FFS thinking that Israel is commuting Genocide and that you'd rather not fund that sn't the same thing at all as condoning Hamas's Oct attack.
You are making the most ridiculous false equivalence
FFS it's not false, it is a moral equivalence. Both of you want to terrorize innocent people
How do I want to terrorize innocent people? I think you should give up talking to people if you're so incapable of listening
Ever been under a missile attack? If you're lucky you get a warning. Then you move your family to your homes safest place and wait. You either hear a boom or you don't. And if you do, you tell your family to wait because there might be another one. It's terrifying. Of course, it's more frightening when you don't get a warning and your neighbors house just blows up.
Yes, exactly. Support for their defense is the same as support for their offense from a simple economic point of view. Your logic stops working when trying to wipe a small country's worth of people out.
You are no better than those that murdered and took hostages on October 7th.
This didn't start on October 7... Look at the hasbara shill everyone!
Look at the guy who wants more death of innocent people. Nothing innocent here. If figures that you would want defenseless people because you don't have the courage to assault anyone else
Israel just bombed Beruit for 11 hours straight yesterday. Thats ridiculous! And while they were bombing Beruit, people in Tel Aviv were celebrating. You don't see any of this as an Israeli land grab??
Sure, and the Lebanese danced in the street when they found out Nasrallah was dead. So what is your point?
Wait, I can cite a video of the Israelis dancing in Tel Aviv. Can you cite a video of the Lebanese people dancing in Beirut?
Yep, same old playbook. I provide it, you say you don't believe it because it's propaganda. The only people who morn Nasrallah is Iran and western communist students. Kind of funny really. But, you still haven't made a point.
But... You didn't provide it. Also, you can't really speak for me as far as what my response would be to a video of people in Beruit dancing after Nasrallah's death.
So I ask again, do you have a video of the Lebanese people dancing after Nasrallah's death?
Edit: if you grab that video from 2017, I'll provide proof of it's origin, btw.
Edit 2: actually, I'll just eliminate that option for you. Here it is.
My country supports, finances, and obviously encourages genocide and I don't know how to stop it. I vote, I protest, I vote with my money yet there is no end in sight to the massacre.
I don't know how to stop it. I don't want to be party to innocent people being slaughtered anymore.
We can only do so much. Our country does not care in the slightest about its people, only corporations and billionaires
Have you tried voting harder?
Hardest
Sorry bro. I guess keep calling it out. I guess it feels like not enough but that's all you have, I guess
I ...... I think I'm going to do exactly what the unintelligent say to. "If you dont love it, leave it". I'm going to leave.
No idea where im going, but I can't be a part of this anymore.
Well. I'm a New Zealander. We're not funding the genocide here but I feel just as powerless to do anything about it. Best of luck to you
Every dollar saved because of "defensive aid" gets spent on offensive weapons...
If they had to pay for their own defense, they wouldn't be able to start so many wars at once.
If they had to pay for their own defense they wouldn't exist.
Bombing other people isn't fucking self defense....
I have no issues with funding actual defense mechanisms like the iron dome and whatever. Small munitions, bulletproof vests, whatever you need to DEFEND your citizens I'm cool with. When it turns outward and you start "military operations" against other countries that's when I say good fucking luck on your own.
I have issue with supporting an apartheid state. I think aid should be conditioned on Israel granting full citizenship to Palestinians.
You want to give them even more power over Palestinians?
The opposite, granting Palestinians citizenship allows them to potentially control the government.
Compare that to any point in our lifetime, where Israel has been their defacto government: Palestinians must report each birth, each change of address to a "foreign" government. If they want to leave their country, they must seek permission from the "foreign" government. If they want to visit their family across town, they must present identification to a "foreign" government.
Citizenship ends apartheid.
Ah, I missed the "full" part. Yes, that would be great, but I don't doubt that they'd still be treated as second-class citizens.
That would make their version of parliament roughly half Palestinian. More if the right of return was generally enforced. (Just allowing them to move back into the country) So the resulting country would actually be pretty fair to them as long as the apartheid part really is gotten rid of.
Source for that?
They're trying to make sure other nations don't exist.
Sure, here's a professor of International relations in Israel:
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-could-israel-manage-without-us-support-1001473884
He’s talking about being able to continue the genocide.
That's... A good thing.
Not while I'm paying for them
But but we are pushing for a cease fire. What a smoke screen.
Normal people: “Israel is starting to become the aggressor”
Christian muricans: “B-b-but the b-bible!!”
Yo for real, my mom is one of those Bible nuts... Can't be reasoned with. "dead children are part of God's plan"
Stop doing this.
Doing what? Showing how the Biden administration and Democratic party are perfectly happy to help Israel kill children?
A Republican administration would be licking Bibi's butthole just as much, if not more. Let's not lose sight of the fact that Israel has overstepped the "defending itself" excuse, and is committing war crimes in their attempt to destroy Hamas by exterminating and land grabbing from the Palestinians (with Lebanon next). None of this should be funded by the US.
I don't think that's what they meant...
Geopolitics don't change, only the justification.
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::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://news.antiwar.com/2024/09/26/us-gives-israel-8-7-billion-in-military-aid-for-operations-in-gaza-and-lebanon/#gsc.tab=0 ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
So Biden is better for Gaza... Right?
What are you assuming to be the alternatives?
Not funding this genocide, which Biden is fully capable of doing.
The alternatives to funding Israel's genocide?
Yes, realistic alternatives that would make the US government stop support for the genocide before it is finished.
Not funding the genocide and thereby stopping the genocide seems like a good alternative.
Yes, obviously. Any idea on how to convince the government to do that?
Protest.
Write to your representatives.
Withhold endorsement until one of the candidates adopts the policy position you (and a majority of Americans) prefer.
Stop giving money to Israel unless it's not usd for weapons 🤷
It's not complicated 😂
read my comment again
Biden is done. There's no comparison with Trump anymore.
Under US procurement rules, every dollar is to be spent for designated material. In this case, probably for Iron Dome rocket motors which the US supplies. So far this year Hezbolah has launched 8,000 iranian rockets into Isreal, yesterday 300. To object to this is to leave the citizens of Isreal defenseless.
Because Israel is an impoverished nation which can't terrorise others without the US's funding?
So, there's a vote to leave them defenseless.
You're a joke.
Really? So you don't want to leave them defenseless?
You guys really are a bunch of cowards.
You're the coward for wanting to bomb civilians in the name of defense. Don't hide behind morals.
Well if you think what the Israeli do is morally wrong, then leaving them defenseless so they can be bombarded is morally wrong as well. But, don't let me stop you from proving that logic. Please proceed.
I don't think it's so clear what some of the money is going to. From the article:
With Hezbollah launching rockets towards civilians, I am in favor of strengthening the Iron Dome. But it sounds like that $3.5 billion could be to resupply Israel for their attacks on Gaza, thereby enabling new ones.
If it is earmarked for purely defensive equipment, it still indirectly funds their genocide by freeing up other money for it.
It also emboldens their attacks because they know there's less chance of successful counter-attack
"essential wartime procurement” indicates material that has previously supplied. This could be anything from bombs to training.
Israel legally can't get any US aid or arms. Period. It's not ambiguous and maybe if they're left defenseless they'll consider maybe treating the people they're oppressing as... people.
So, let's not cower in the corner...are you voting to leave the Israeli citizens defenseless?
Yes. They're currently engaged in massive war crimes, including the use of starvation as a weapon as identified by the US State Department. They are absolutely ineligible for military aid.
But they aren't actually defenseless. They still have the most sophisticated military in the region.
Then you are no better than those that murderer on Oct9ber 7th and took hostages. Congratulations
And don't forget karma
Yes, withholding weapons from people murdering civilians is directly analogous to murdering civilians yourself.
Perfect logic. Unassailable.
Defenseless people where just what those Hamas wanted on Oct 7th. It seems you want the same thing.
FFS thinking that Israel is commuting Genocide and that you'd rather not fund that sn't the same thing at all as condoning Hamas's Oct attack. You are making the most ridiculous false equivalence
FFS it's not false, it is a moral equivalence. Both of you want to terrorize innocent people
How do I want to terrorize innocent people? I think you should give up talking to people if you're so incapable of listening
Ever been under a missile attack? If you're lucky you get a warning. Then you move your family to your homes safest place and wait. You either hear a boom or you don't. And if you do, you tell your family to wait because there might be another one. It's terrifying. Of course, it's more frightening when you don't get a warning and your neighbors house just blows up.
Yes, exactly. Support for their defense is the same as support for their offense from a simple economic point of view. Your logic stops working when trying to wipe a small country's worth of people out.
You are no better than those that murdered and took hostages on October 7th.
This didn't start on October 7... Look at the hasbara shill everyone!
Look at the guy who wants more death of innocent people. Nothing innocent here. If figures that you would want defenseless people because you don't have the courage to assault anyone else
Israel just bombed Beruit for 11 hours straight yesterday. Thats ridiculous! And while they were bombing Beruit, people in Tel Aviv were celebrating. You don't see any of this as an Israeli land grab??
Sure, and the Lebanese danced in the street when they found out Nasrallah was dead. So what is your point?
Wait, I can cite a video of the Israelis dancing in Tel Aviv. Can you cite a video of the Lebanese people dancing in Beirut?
Edit: https://x.com/8zal/status/1839977600053121140?t=7QnUDXOpkqFxjqQWyTT70w&s=19
Yep, same old playbook. I provide it, you say you don't believe it because it's propaganda. The only people who morn Nasrallah is Iran and western communist students. Kind of funny really. But, you still haven't made a point.
But... You didn't provide it. Also, you can't really speak for me as far as what my response would be to a video of people in Beruit dancing after Nasrallah's death.
So I ask again, do you have a video of the Lebanese people dancing after Nasrallah's death?
Edit: if you grab that video from 2017, I'll provide proof of it's origin, btw.
Edit 2: actually, I'll just eliminate that option for you. Here it is.
https://x.com/OmarBaddar/status/1839986430157758648?t=R0AH-zVk9DGQgb9ivE17_Q&s=19
Still waiting on proof of your claims. Remember, I'm asking for video proof of Lebanese people dancing in Beruit at news of Nasrallah's death.
Yeah, you sicken us.
Your mask slipped there, it's supposed to be isreals defense this is for, not the genocide of the gazans!
Uh... Okay I guess.
There's a BIG difference between defense system (iron dome) and offensive system (MOABs).
I agree
Israel can kill children with someone else's tax dollars; not ours
But they're not under this allocation and you know it. Yet you are sad and need to throw red meat to anyone that will listen.
Maybe Israel should pull itself up by its bootstraps and get a second job
That's a hilarious assumption when we've done this with everything up to and including 2,000 pound dumb bombs in the last year.
I actually read the article. Did you?