I was honestly pretty convinced he was on the plane, but now that the Kremlin feels the need to tell us I'm beginning to genuinely doubt it.
Didn’t Prigozhin fake his death in the past?
Prigozhin: “First time?”
I am quite sure he's dead, and they're responsible. There would be no value in not telling the truth here. If he were to pop up after such an announcement, it would destroy what little credibility they have.
as someone who has personally known psychopathic narcissists, they lie without rational reason. the point is to lie. that's the end goal. the individual lie doesn't necessarily have an individual strategic gain. as far as i can tell, there are two purposes for constantly lying.
one, they get an internal sense of power. it's like a pleasurable reward for them similar to the feeling a hungry person gets when they eat food. their brains are wired that way. two, it serves to keep others constantly confused and dependent on the narcissist for reality because if everything is disordered, then others can't make sense of reality, so the narcissist has control over the narrative. think of Trump. lawyers have repeatedly argued successfully in court that he cannot testify because he cannot stop lying.
i'm not saying Putin is not lying in this case. what i'm arguing is that he doesn't need a clear individual gain from a lie to lie. it could be part of a greater deranged strategy. we just can't be sure.
We know they want their populace to think he's dead and that they're not trying to blame ukraine.
This actually narrows down the possibilities a fair bit.
Reminds me russian meme: How to determine Peskov(Putin's press secretary) lies? He opens mouth.
Was he seen alive recently? For all we know, that was just a pricey cremation.
Maybe that was the deal. Prigozhin fakes his death and lives out the rest of his years incognito while Putin ends up looking like he’s assassinated the leader of the coup.
Yeah that was probably the deal but then Putin actually kills him because he's a literal Bond villain.
Tosca intensifies
Please explain the universe in which there is utility for Putin to have an incognito Prigozhin running around on a beach somewhere sufficient to fake a plane crash.
Cui bono?
there's no way that putin and wagner cooperated on faking priggo's death. what for? they competed for african businesses/colonies and putin had to show that he's in charge since coup
"Molecular-genetic testing has been completed," it said in a statement.
"According to its results, the identities of all 10 deceased have been established, and they correspond to the list published in the flight manifest."
Not sure what’s more impressive; fact that they were able to turn the test results back so quickly, or fact that all 10 deceased, including the flight crew, have their DNA in some sort of database. Isn’t it supposed to take weeks to do the analysis?
have their DNA in some sort of database.
You don't need to have THEIR DNA, their relative's DNA is enough. Still sussy.
test results back so quickly,
It took few days. Normal speed.
While I won't argue the DNA database issue, they can prioritize testing to be much faster.
I just straight up don’t understand and am impressed with the tech in this space we as a society have.
I assume they could test it against a known living relative to establish the likelihood of the identity.
And here I thought he might have survived the crash that killed every other person on the plane.
It was more confirming if he faked his death.
What a silly thing to need to confirm. Why on Earth would he fake his death?
To avoid being murdered for being against Putin, probably.
Nobody who's not a total piece of shit and/or related to him is going to miss that neonazi, but let's not pretend that his death was accidental or even overzealous punishment for his many ACTUAL crimes.
Oh no, I don't think his death was accidental. I think it was 100% on Putin's orders.
Maybe to prevent further assassination attempts from Russia? The simple fact that his plane got shot down is proof that he had a reasonable motive to fake his death.
In hindsight this is exactly what he should've done based on public information.
I guess. It seems to me like Putin giving his family his condolences was confirmation.
It's mutually beneficial for him and Putin.
The point was to test if he was actually on the plane.
He was on the passenger's list, but that doesn't mean he was actually on the plane.
So normally everything the russian say is a lie... I think I'll keep on handling russian "news" that way.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has been confirmed dead after genetic analysis of bodies found in Wednesday's plane crash, Russian officials have said.
The Investigative Committee said the identities of all 10 victims had been established and corresponded to those on the flight's passenger list.
Prigozhin's private jet came down north-west of Moscow on 25 August, killing all those on board.
The Kremlin has denied speculation it was to blame for the crash.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly.
You can also follow @BBCBreaking on Twitter to get the latest alerts.
The original article contains 121 words, the summary contains 98 words. Saved 19%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I wonder why he went to Moscow in the first place. Why would he have taken that risk?
Humans can be very naive. It could be as simple as Putin got in contact and said "I know you never said anything bad against me. You know. We've been through a lot. Why don't you come back to Moscow in secret, and we can work out a better deal where we can still play Grand Theft Auto and no one has to know its you"
Alternatively, Putin threatened someone he cared about. "Get back here or Mr snuggles gets it"
prigozhin was in moscow before, he personally tried to deliver some documents to ministry of defence and later to shoigu but was denied in both cases
The next step will be to blame this on Ukraine. If Putin can convince ordinary Russians that Ukraine was behind this it kills two birds with one stone. It diverts suspicion from the Kremlin and it helps to bolster flagging public support of the "special military operation" amid the high numbers of soldiers coming home in body bags.
It’s surprisingly easy to extract the truth out of someone who lies 100% of the time
Good riddance
in the age of DNA tests, how could he have faked his death?
By Russia faking the DNA test results to save face. They wanted him dead, that plane crash wasn't an accident, and to say anything but "yeah he's dead" or otherwise admit that Russia got outsmarted would be an embarrassment to Russia.
In Russia? If they wanted they could have the desired results from a DNA test even without taking the specimen. Instant results, satisfaction guaranteed™
Bribing anyone who has to do with: taking, transporting, preparing or performing the actual test with the DNA sample or the reference material.
So we don't know anything yet, got it
I was honestly pretty convinced he was on the plane, but now that the Kremlin feels the need to tell us I'm beginning to genuinely doubt it.
Didn’t Prigozhin fake his death in the past?
Prigozhin: “First time?”
I am quite sure he's dead, and they're responsible. There would be no value in not telling the truth here. If he were to pop up after such an announcement, it would destroy what little credibility they have.
as someone who has personally known psychopathic narcissists, they lie without rational reason. the point is to lie. that's the end goal. the individual lie doesn't necessarily have an individual strategic gain. as far as i can tell, there are two purposes for constantly lying.
one, they get an internal sense of power. it's like a pleasurable reward for them similar to the feeling a hungry person gets when they eat food. their brains are wired that way. two, it serves to keep others constantly confused and dependent on the narcissist for reality because if everything is disordered, then others can't make sense of reality, so the narcissist has control over the narrative. think of Trump. lawyers have repeatedly argued successfully in court that he cannot testify because he cannot stop lying.
i'm not saying Putin is not lying in this case. what i'm arguing is that he doesn't need a clear individual gain from a lie to lie. it could be part of a greater deranged strategy. we just can't be sure.
We know they want their populace to think he's dead and that they're not trying to blame ukraine.
This actually narrows down the possibilities a fair bit.
Reminds me russian meme: How to determine Peskov(Putin's press secretary) lies? He opens mouth.
Was he seen alive recently? For all we know, that was just a pricey cremation.
Maybe that was the deal. Prigozhin fakes his death and lives out the rest of his years incognito while Putin ends up looking like he’s assassinated the leader of the coup.
Yeah that was probably the deal but then Putin actually kills him because he's a literal Bond villain.
Tosca intensifies
Please explain the universe in which there is utility for Putin to have an incognito Prigozhin running around on a beach somewhere sufficient to fake a plane crash.
Cui bono?
there's no way that putin and wagner cooperated on faking priggo's death. what for? they competed for african businesses/colonies and putin had to show that he's in charge since coup
Not sure what’s more impressive; fact that they were able to turn the test results back so quickly, or fact that all 10 deceased, including the flight crew, have their DNA in some sort of database. Isn’t it supposed to take weeks to do the analysis?
You don't need to have THEIR DNA, their relative's DNA is enough. Still sussy.
It took few days. Normal speed.
While I won't argue the DNA database issue, they can prioritize testing to be much faster.
I just straight up don’t understand and am impressed with the tech in this space we as a society have.
I assume they could test it against a known living relative to establish the likelihood of the identity.
And here I thought he might have survived the crash that killed every other person on the plane.
It was more confirming if he faked his death.
What a silly thing to need to confirm. Why on Earth would he fake his death?
To avoid being murdered for being against Putin, probably.
Nobody who's not a total piece of shit and/or related to him is going to miss that neonazi, but let's not pretend that his death was accidental or even overzealous punishment for his many ACTUAL crimes.
Oh no, I don't think his death was accidental. I think it was 100% on Putin's orders.
Maybe to prevent further assassination attempts from Russia? The simple fact that his plane got shot down is proof that he had a reasonable motive to fake his death.
In hindsight this is exactly what he should've done based on public information.
I guess. It seems to me like Putin giving his family his condolences was confirmation.
It's mutually beneficial for him and Putin.
The point was to test if he was actually on the plane.
He was on the passenger's list, but that doesn't mean he was actually on the plane.
So normally everything the russian say is a lie... I think I'll keep on handling russian "news" that way.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has been confirmed dead after genetic analysis of bodies found in Wednesday's plane crash, Russian officials have said.
The Investigative Committee said the identities of all 10 victims had been established and corresponded to those on the flight's passenger list.
Prigozhin's private jet came down north-west of Moscow on 25 August, killing all those on board.
The Kremlin has denied speculation it was to blame for the crash.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly.
You can also follow @BBCBreaking on Twitter to get the latest alerts.
The original article contains 121 words, the summary contains 98 words. Saved 19%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I wonder why he went to Moscow in the first place. Why would he have taken that risk?
Humans can be very naive. It could be as simple as Putin got in contact and said "I know you never said anything bad against me. You know. We've been through a lot. Why don't you come back to Moscow in secret, and we can work out a better deal where we can still play Grand Theft Auto and no one has to know its you"
Alternatively, Putin threatened someone he cared about. "Get back here or Mr snuggles gets it"
prigozhin was in moscow before, he personally tried to deliver some documents to ministry of defence and later to shoigu but was denied in both cases
The next step will be to blame this on Ukraine. If Putin can convince ordinary Russians that Ukraine was behind this it kills two birds with one stone. It diverts suspicion from the Kremlin and it helps to bolster flagging public support of the "special military operation" amid the high numbers of soldiers coming home in body bags.
It’s surprisingly easy to extract the truth out of someone who lies 100% of the time
Good riddance
in the age of DNA tests, how could he have faked his death?
By Russia faking the DNA test results to save face. They wanted him dead, that plane crash wasn't an accident, and to say anything but "yeah he's dead" or otherwise admit that Russia got outsmarted would be an embarrassment to Russia.
In Russia? If they wanted they could have the desired results from a DNA test even without taking the specimen. Instant results, satisfaction guaranteed™
Bribing anyone who has to do with: taking, transporting, preparing or performing the actual test with the DNA sample or the reference material.