Conservative litigators want this Supreme Court to expand a vision of religious liberty that abolishes the separation of church and state while granting Christians a freewheeling right to discriminate, often with public funding. They are seizing upon any case that will give the court this opportunity, with little concern for the truth of the underlying claims. And the Republican-appointed justices seem eager to twist reality into whatever shape necessary to give them what they want.
That's pretty damn scary what they are trying to do.
Gilead
And they said we were over reacting, "that's fiction, we'll never try that"
They say that about … everything.
Abortion most recently.
They're proposing a national ban! It was supposed to be a 'states rights' type of issue, but here we are. Give them an inch (2.5 cm) and they'll take a mile (1609 m)
Well, none of them have walked a mile recently, so they’ll take 200 feet and claim it was a mile.
Then they’ll look around and realize the mistake and take 200 more until they actually get there…
The cost of bribing the Supreme Court is really high nowadays, gotta make sure they get their money's worth.
what like 2, 3 trips to tahiti?
Just round it out to an even 38 luxry vacations and we'll call it a day.
Time to become a high school football coach and have the kids face Mecca and pray 3 times a practice! They're gonna love this.
And just wait until I get to prove Yahweh is the same God in both religions in the Theocratic courts. Appeal to the pope to excommunicate them if they balk like the church did the Gnostics or Aryans for similar reasons.
They want to expand fake "religious freedom" by abolishing the real thing.
A reminder that ADF, the group that creates these lawsuits with fake clients, is funded almost exclusively by Leonard Leo, the head of the Federalist Society, and the man who Trump used to pick all judges, including the three supreme court picks.
Almost every single conservative judge is a member of the Federalist Society.
the man who TrumpMcConnell used to pick all judges, including the three supreme court picks.
Trump doesn't give a fuck about the conservative agenda beyond how it can enrich him personally.
the man who TrumpMcConnellsHandler's used to pick all judges, including the three supreme court picks.
Seeing McConnell now makes me think he hasn't been making decisions for the better part of the last decade.
Almost every single conservative judge is a member of the Federalist Society.
And conversely, every single Federalist Society judge is groomed to decide cases based on reactionary politics rather than the law.
And every right wing propagandist is groomed to call judges not picked by conservatives "activist judges" so they get to point the finger first and say "you're the activist, it can't be my team because I'm calling you out first!"
I do solemnly swear that if separation of Church and State is abolished I will begin abolishing everything in my sight.
I'm so sick of watching these fucks flirt around with fascism and theocracy. Its getting worse by the minute, they are brazen.
If I ever held power in the US; my first act would be to tax all religious institutions. My second act would be to fund social programs with their money.
Come on -- at least in Christian Fascist USA we'll get free blood/wine on Sundays!
/s
"Were not crazy, you are! We just imagine cannibalism as we drink wine and eat crackers that are supposed to be Jesus Meals™ and we believe in an invisible man that knows everything but relies on your actions and punishes you for eternity for stupid shit. Now either eat your Jesus Meal™ or get in the damn police car, you godless heathen!"
One of my favorites is how we're all made in His image, but if you go to his mansion at the Vatican, he's so disgusted by Women's exposed arms (and thus his own), he has his servants to make them buy Vatican flags to cover up with.
"Your body is a temple; a nasty, rotten, sexy, disease-riddled temple that needs to be hidden and condemned."
He needs to take a look in the Mirror.
To be clear, I made up that quote. It was intended to be satirical.
So, his lawyers filed a response with the court that he would resume coaching within 24 hours of reinstatement. Isn't there any punishment to someone for lying to a court?
Yes, but that requires people to do their job, and US law enforcement are some of the laziest mother fuckers on this planet.
I mean law endorcement as the whole system, not just the officers, tgough they are the prime example.
Uvalde PD sat in that school for 74 minutes listening to a gunman murder children and teachers. They rehired that lady mocking helpless parents and gloating about if she was in their shoes she'd not wait. They upgraded the termination record of the commander on scene that piece of shit Arrendondo.
...law enforcement are some of the laziest most cowardly and insecure mother fuckers on this planet.
Fixed it!
I mean, it's definitely all three for many cops.
The whole case was a lie to the court and the justices didn’t care. The facts of the case are straight up fabricated. They get to push their Christian agenda and that’s all that matters
It's almost like Republicans have literally nothing better to do than to wage culture wars because they're morally and professionally bankrupt.
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him." - Matt 6:5-8
The Supreme Court doesn't rule on the theological validity of what he's doing--nor should they--but his supporters ought to take note that the Bible explicitly says not to do this shit.
All it will take is one more Republican presidency to get the separation of church and state to be knocked down.
There will be some out there who think I'm crazy for saying it, and they will claim it will never happen. Yeah... ok. We all thought RvW was secure as well. It doesn't even have to be Trump. ALL Republicans are radicalized extremists. That entire party is corrupt to it's core and it will shove religion down our throats if they regain the White House and keep their power in Congress.
What infuriates me even more than all this, is the thought that there would be protests out in the streets the day AFTER Republicans win the White House by people who couldn't be bothered to vote the day earlier. They were too busy or it would be too much trouble to go vote on Tuesday November 5th, but they sure seem to find time to go protest and loot the local electronics store on Wednesday November 6th.
Dissolve the court. Arrest Gorsuch, Alito, Thomas and Kavanaugh. They take money from people who have business before the court and they make their rulings based on obviously disprovable lies.
Fuck this fuck
Wow Slate is so fucking slanted. Could have tone it down and just pointed out all the lies. Good points but I'm sure the tone is going to put off the conservatives that need to hear this.
Conservatives
Reading Slate
lol, lmao
💀
You can't reason with the unreasonable, and you can't shame the shameless.
Republicans know what they want- a white-male-dominated Christofascist society where you have no rights, only privileges granted to you by your untouchable billionaire owner. They will absolutely lie, cheat, steal, and terrorize whoever and whatever they have to to make it happen.
So no, you don't reach those people. You reach out to the apathetic, the BSABs, and the "enlightened" centrists and try to make them realize Republicans will get this if they continue to sit on the sidelines.
Sure you can -- Almost all people respond to incentives. The key is to realize their incentive structure may not align with yours. If your true goal is efficacy in the change you seek to create, it's mandatory to speak to your audience in a way they will understand and be receptive to. We all have giant animal brains and tiny logic brains so you have to be really careful to not trip the wire into the limbic system where no logical thought or change can occur much less beat out tribalism and ego.
I gave up on the idea of persuading conservatives years ago. All that's left is to oppose them. Efficiency requires not wasting effort on things that don't work.
Well, then are you preparing for the eventual Civil war II, or just smelling your own farts with the rest of us liberals here?
You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.
In a lot of cases that limbic system is the only shot you have at changing their minds. A massive number of conservatives don't believe the way they do because they've sat down and thought about their worldview. It's cultural, and has become an identity for them. In many cases it has become directly tied to Christianity, which only worsens the shitty blurring of lines. You're not going to logic that out, and most need to have their worldview shook pretty damn vigorously to even begin to see things differently.
Some of these people live in a totally different reality. You can't even begin to find common ground to jump off from without directly challenging their worldview. People turn emotional the moment that happens. Even if you get so far as to present opposing facts they will be mostly ignored/rationalized, and anything accepted will be conveniently forgotten shortly after the conversation. For as many complaints as we see from conservatives about "indoctrination" they made a fine job of doing as much with their base. It's a much bigger problem than people give credit to -- I wonder if that's due to ignorance of the issue, or if we're just afraid of looking directly at it.
I purposefully used the word 'incentives' and not logic/reason -- But still -- looking backwards through time and how separated we all used to be, this argument kind of falls apart for me. People appear to go along with things or change their minds all the time, within a life time.
How did Liberalism or progressivism begin? Why did Hammurabi ever write down laws if no one would follow them since they didnt' reason their current manner? How did all of our dad's go from the American values we grew up with to Fox News dads? Did they reason them into that and if not why doesn't your same rule apply to these?
I struggle to believe there's no theoretical solve. I agree it's likely not through logic, reason and data, but we could use logic and reason to plot a course of propaganda to move them away from Christian Fascism, just as the CF masterminds did in the opposite direction 30 years ago.
And, if there is no solve, I feel you must cede more suffering will follow for everyone. If 100 Million plus people identify with 'that side' and we decide to end persuasion, what other eventuality exists other than civil war 2? Are there examples in history of 'corralling' 33% of a population against their will politically or physically and not ending in revolt? If the CF wins, the same will be true for people that think like us, no?
Honestly, I have quit engaging in a lot of arguments with the other side too, for the same reasons you all cite, but I don't have rose colored glasses on that that makes me noble or sets our children up for a world with less suffering.
Thanks for the chat!
E: and more broadly, if a man can't be reasoned into something he did not reason into -- how did reason begin without a 2001 style obelisk or something?
I thought this was a really well written article actually. Conservatives know what they're doing, they don't need to hear this. They don't care, they just want their religion to be law, and the first amendment to be abolished. Other people need to know what the conservatives are doing so we can fight back against it or at least know they're arguing in court in bad faith.
This. We are over here wasting time thinking that all Americans are basically good and just need the right information to make better decisions, while tehressives laugh at us and love that we waste time trying to convince them of anything.
Can you point out one of the parts you think needs to be "toned down"?
Conservatives love theocracy. Why would they object to this?
That's pretty damn scary what they are trying to do.
Gilead
And they said we were over reacting, "that's fiction, we'll never try that"
They say that about … everything.
Abortion most recently.
They're proposing a national ban! It was supposed to be a 'states rights' type of issue, but here we are. Give them an inch (2.5 cm) and they'll take a mile (1609 m)
Well, none of them have walked a mile recently, so they’ll take 200 feet and claim it was a mile.
Then they’ll look around and realize the mistake and take 200 more until they actually get there…
The cost of bribing the Supreme Court is really high nowadays, gotta make sure they get their money's worth.
what like 2, 3 trips to tahiti?
Just round it out to an even 38 luxry vacations and we'll call it a day.
Time to become a high school football coach and have the kids face Mecca and pray 3 times a practice! They're gonna love this.
And just wait until I get to prove Yahweh is the same God in both religions in the Theocratic courts. Appeal to the pope to excommunicate them if they balk like the church did the Gnostics or Aryans for similar reasons.
They want to expand fake "religious freedom" by abolishing the real thing.
A reminder that ADF, the group that creates these lawsuits with fake clients, is funded almost exclusively by Leonard Leo, the head of the Federalist Society, and the man who Trump used to pick all judges, including the three supreme court picks.
Almost every single conservative judge is a member of the Federalist Society.
Trump doesn't give a fuck about the conservative agenda beyond how it can enrich him personally.
Seeing McConnell now makes me think he hasn't been making decisions for the better part of the last decade.
And conversely, every single Federalist Society judge is groomed to decide cases based on reactionary politics rather than the law.
And every right wing propagandist is groomed to call judges not picked by conservatives "activist judges" so they get to point the finger first and say "you're the activist, it can't be my team because I'm calling you out first!"
I do solemnly swear that if separation of Church and State is abolished I will begin abolishing everything in my sight.
I'm so sick of watching these fucks flirt around with fascism and theocracy. Its getting worse by the minute, they are brazen.
If I ever held power in the US; my first act would be to tax all religious institutions. My second act would be to fund social programs with their money.
Come on -- at least in Christian Fascist USA we'll get free blood/wine on Sundays!
/s
"Were not crazy, you are! We just imagine cannibalism as we drink wine and eat crackers that are supposed to be Jesus Meals™ and we believe in an invisible man that knows everything but relies on your actions and punishes you for eternity for stupid shit. Now either eat your Jesus Meal™ or get in the damn police car, you godless heathen!"
One of my favorites is how we're all made in His image, but if you go to his mansion at the Vatican, he's so disgusted by Women's exposed arms (and thus his own), he has his servants to make them buy Vatican flags to cover up with.
"Your body is a temple; a nasty, rotten, sexy, disease-riddled temple that needs to be hidden and condemned."
He needs to take a look in the Mirror.
To be clear, I made up that quote. It was intended to be satirical.
So, his lawyers filed a response with the court that he would resume coaching within 24 hours of reinstatement. Isn't there any punishment to someone for lying to a court?
Yes, but that requires people to do their job, and US law enforcement are some of the laziest mother fuckers on this planet.
I mean law endorcement as the whole system, not just the officers, tgough they are the prime example.
Uvalde PD sat in that school for 74 minutes listening to a gunman murder children and teachers. They rehired that lady mocking helpless parents and gloating about if she was in their shoes she'd not wait. They upgraded the termination record of the commander on scene that piece of shit Arrendondo.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-chief-wins-appeal-upgrade-termination-record/story?id=97372289 https://www.kut.org/politics/2022-07-18/73-minutes-is-too-long-former-judge-weighs-in-on-probe-of-police-response-in-uvalde https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/05/us/texas-uvalde-school-officer-investigation/index.html
Fixed it!
I mean, it's definitely all three for many cops.
The whole case was a lie to the court and the justices didn’t care. The facts of the case are straight up fabricated. They get to push their Christian agenda and that’s all that matters
It's almost like Republicans have literally nothing better to do than to wage culture wars because they're morally and professionally bankrupt.
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him." - Matt 6:5-8
The Supreme Court doesn't rule on the theological validity of what he's doing--nor should they--but his supporters ought to take note that the Bible explicitly says not to do this shit.
All it will take is one more Republican presidency to get the separation of church and state to be knocked down.
There will be some out there who think I'm crazy for saying it, and they will claim it will never happen. Yeah... ok. We all thought RvW was secure as well. It doesn't even have to be Trump. ALL Republicans are radicalized extremists. That entire party is corrupt to it's core and it will shove religion down our throats if they regain the White House and keep their power in Congress.
What infuriates me even more than all this, is the thought that there would be protests out in the streets the day AFTER Republicans win the White House by people who couldn't be bothered to vote the day earlier. They were too busy or it would be too much trouble to go vote on Tuesday November 5th, but they sure seem to find time to go protest and loot the local electronics store on Wednesday November 6th.
Dissolve the court. Arrest Gorsuch, Alito, Thomas and Kavanaugh. They take money from people who have business before the court and they make their rulings based on obviously disprovable lies.
Fuck this fuck
Wow Slate is so fucking slanted. Could have tone it down and just pointed out all the lies. Good points but I'm sure the tone is going to put off the conservatives that need to hear this.
lol, lmao
💀
You can't reason with the unreasonable, and you can't shame the shameless.
Republicans know what they want- a white-male-dominated Christofascist society where you have no rights, only privileges granted to you by your untouchable billionaire owner. They will absolutely lie, cheat, steal, and terrorize whoever and whatever they have to to make it happen.
So no, you don't reach those people. You reach out to the apathetic, the BSABs, and the "enlightened" centrists and try to make them realize Republicans will get this if they continue to sit on the sidelines.
Sure you can -- Almost all people respond to incentives. The key is to realize their incentive structure may not align with yours. If your true goal is efficacy in the change you seek to create, it's mandatory to speak to your audience in a way they will understand and be receptive to. We all have giant animal brains and tiny logic brains so you have to be really careful to not trip the wire into the limbic system where no logical thought or change can occur much less beat out tribalism and ego.
I gave up on the idea of persuading conservatives years ago. All that's left is to oppose them. Efficiency requires not wasting effort on things that don't work.
Well, then are you preparing for the eventual Civil war II, or just smelling your own farts with the rest of us liberals here?
E: https://i.imgur.com/erYn6lW.png
You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.
In a lot of cases that limbic system is the only shot you have at changing their minds. A massive number of conservatives don't believe the way they do because they've sat down and thought about their worldview. It's cultural, and has become an identity for them. In many cases it has become directly tied to Christianity, which only worsens the shitty blurring of lines. You're not going to logic that out, and most need to have their worldview shook pretty damn vigorously to even begin to see things differently.
Some of these people live in a totally different reality. You can't even begin to find common ground to jump off from without directly challenging their worldview. People turn emotional the moment that happens. Even if you get so far as to present opposing facts they will be mostly ignored/rationalized, and anything accepted will be conveniently forgotten shortly after the conversation. For as many complaints as we see from conservatives about "indoctrination" they made a fine job of doing as much with their base. It's a much bigger problem than people give credit to -- I wonder if that's due to ignorance of the issue, or if we're just afraid of looking directly at it.
I purposefully used the word 'incentives' and not logic/reason -- But still -- looking backwards through time and how separated we all used to be, this argument kind of falls apart for me. People appear to go along with things or change their minds all the time, within a life time.
How did Liberalism or progressivism begin? Why did Hammurabi ever write down laws if no one would follow them since they didnt' reason their current manner? How did all of our dad's go from the American values we grew up with to Fox News dads? Did they reason them into that and if not why doesn't your same rule apply to these?
I struggle to believe there's no theoretical solve. I agree it's likely not through logic, reason and data, but we could use logic and reason to plot a course of propaganda to move them away from Christian Fascism, just as the CF masterminds did in the opposite direction 30 years ago.
And, if there is no solve, I feel you must cede more suffering will follow for everyone. If 100 Million plus people identify with 'that side' and we decide to end persuasion, what other eventuality exists other than civil war 2? Are there examples in history of 'corralling' 33% of a population against their will politically or physically and not ending in revolt? If the CF wins, the same will be true for people that think like us, no?
Honestly, I have quit engaging in a lot of arguments with the other side too, for the same reasons you all cite, but I don't have rose colored glasses on that that makes me noble or sets our children up for a world with less suffering.
Thanks for the chat!
E: and more broadly, if a man can't be reasoned into something he did not reason into -- how did reason begin without a 2001 style obelisk or something?
I thought this was a really well written article actually. Conservatives know what they're doing, they don't need to hear this. They don't care, they just want their religion to be law, and the first amendment to be abolished. Other people need to know what the conservatives are doing so we can fight back against it or at least know they're arguing in court in bad faith.
This. We are over here wasting time thinking that all Americans are basically good and just need the right information to make better decisions, while tehressives laugh at us and love that we waste time trying to convince them of anything.
Can you point out one of the parts you think needs to be "toned down"?
Conservatives love theocracy. Why would they object to this?