Hamas tells Gaza City residents to stay put after Israel orders evacuation
theguardian.com
Hamas has called on Palestinians to stay in their homes after Israel issued sweeping evacuation orders for almost half of Gaza’s more than 2.3 million people ahead of an expected ground offensive.
The Hamas authority for refugee affairs today told residents in the north of the territory to “remain steadfast in your homes and to stand firm in the face of this disgusting psychological war waged by the occupation”.
Translation: "If all the civilians leave, we won't be able to use them as human shields anymore."
Edit: It's also true that Israel has made it extraordinarily difficult to leave. They are not the good guys, here. But there are no good guys here except for the civilians, and we know Hamas is a terrorist organization that is perfectly willing to use them as human shields.
There's nowhere for them to go...
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and Israel just told them to fit in half as much space at a time when they have no fuel, water, or electricity.
It's fucking impossible. And if they actually move, the Palestinians are smart enough to know they will never be able to access that land again.
Hell, Hamas is the only ones with the resources to move
Yes, but that's only the convenient half for the pro-Israeli media.
The inconvenient other half is that they have blocked EVERY possible exit from Gaza, including telling the Egyptians to not allow anyone out.
So, no food, fuel, electricity, medicine, water, or shelters. One of the MOST densely populated regions in the whole world, and they were just expected to what? Walk down the strip to sit in the 'safe' bombed out rubble?
Would they be allowed a "right of return" afterwards?
No good options for those residents. So you can use this to rightfully condem Hamas because it suits their political objectives, but that doesn't change the fact about the rest of what I've laid out.
So what would you do? Stay in your home and risk death? Or become homeless and only have a marginally less chance of death?
That’s exactly what I keep thinking about, to hell with what the controlling forces say, the two options in front of those residents aren’t really options. I can’t wrap my head around what that must be like.
Question: is it actually true that Israel doesn't want Palestinians to leave via the southern border to Egypt? I've heard on the news twice (BBC Hardtalk and somewhere else I can't recall now) that the opposite is true. From what I've heard, Israel wants the Palestinians to leave, but Egypt does not want to allow them into their country because it would be a huge burden to feed, house, and police a million+ angry refugees.
It also makes more sense from Israel's point of view to get the Palestinians out of Gaza. Israel's greatest danger is, and always has been, the opprobrium of the international community if they kill too many civilians. It would be a huge victory for Israel if the civilians all leave, which is why Hamas wants them to stay!
That's correct. Egypt does not want to take the Palestinians.
Egypt wants to, but Israel keeps bombing the Palestinian side of the border and won't agree to letting Egyptian aid in to clear it so people can escape from Israels attacks.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/egypt-rafah-crossing-gaza-palestinians-mime-intl/index.html
article looks like Egyptian government just looked for an excuse to not help
Israel just want all Palestinian land, no matter how. If they leave, great. If they're all dead, fine. All they care about is the land. Of course Israel would prefer them to just leave and not be their issue anymore, but they caused the issue driving Palestinians into Gaza in the first place, and could just as easily let them out again.
Israel unitarily pulled out of Gaza in the mid 2000s. If all they wanted was to take all the land they could do so.
Answer:
Israel keeps saying it's open, but bombed it three times in 24 hrs too...
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-bombed-only-crossing-allowing-people-flee-gaza-palestine-egypt-2023-10?op=1
So the crossing is open on the Egypt side, but complete rubble and inaccessible on the Palestinian side
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/egypt-rafah-crossing-gaza-palestinians-mime-intl/index.html
Israel is telling them to do something that's literally impossible.
Er... that's not true. They were initially telling Palestinians to go to Egypt. Egypt does not want them in the Sinai and told Israel to provide safe passage through Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-to-bomb-rafah-crossing-to-egypt-after-telling-gazans-to-flee-through-it/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rafah-border-gaza-egypt-israel-1.6994234
Yes, it's true that Egypt does not want to allow a mass exodus of refugees.
It's also true that Israel has been bombing that area as well.
So not sure what your point is.
It seems like the airstrikes damaging the crossing is a more recent development that I wasn't aware of. Your CBC article and the CNN article posted above are only an hour old. Your Times of Israel article says this:
Nope.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/egypt-rafah-crossing-gaza-palestinians-mime-intl/index.html
In this case staying put will likely save more lives than trying to move 40k people per hour within 24 hours.
Not even Hamas themselves are saying they were doing it in order to prevent loss of lives during the evacuation.
A broken clock is right twice a day
40k?
It's 1.1 million people being told to leave their homes...
40k per hour
That depends on wether Israelies will just level the whole place. One nuke would be enough. They have nukes and they seem to be unhinged.
Nah, Israel wouldn't nuke it. Even they can't convince citizens to resettle there if it's been irradiated.
Israeli translation: if you don't get the fuck out so we can capture and resettle half your city we are more than happy, to commit mass murder instead.
Mass murder like attacking a festival and killing 260+ people?
Mass murder like threatening to kill 1.1 Million civilians.
Translation this is your land we have nothing left to lose because of systematic destruction of our land and Culture.
Gaza is more densely populated than LA and they have no electricity, water, or fuel.
The only exit is thru Egypt, and Israel keeps blowing it up.
Even if the message got to everyone, there's no way people could do what Israel told them.
Israel knows this. They weren't trying to "help" by announcing they're going to flatten half of Gaza, they want to cause panic and riots.
In this specific case isreal asked residents of Gaza city, a subpart of the Gaza strip to move to a more southern position in the Gaza strip. Like asking people to move from Manhattan to Brooklyn because they are going to blow up Manhattan. People are capable of moving within the Gaza strip. That doesn't mean there will be housing for them however.
Or food... Or water...
Or shelter for a few days from now when Israel starts bombing the southern half.
All this is doing is motivating residents of Gaza to pick up arms against Israel.
Which a cynic would say is exactly what Israel wants
Even if this analogy was representative, this would ALSO be a complete mess to try and do and that's in a city with working roads, fuel, transportation options, easy access to telecoms/information, and support personnel. Even with all that, it would not be possible to do in 24 hours.
I don't think the analogy helped
Some things to consider:
Did you notice how the Gazan border in 1967 was the SE as it was in 2005? What did the map look like in 1990? Is the reason you didn't include that map is that it would have shown a return of land in the Gaza strip done so without a war by Israel to demonstrate that peace based on the 1967 borders could function. I also noticed your maps ignored the Sinai, another example of where Israel has shown a willingness to give up land for peace.
If there was a realistic shot that return land won in warfare would lead to lasting peace, Israel would do so.
I know we're all fighting but I think this guy has a point.
I'm pretty sure Israel and Palestine were closer to peace in 94 than they ever have been but then Zionists assassinated Rabin.
After thatActually kinda the whole time the US and UK refused to work with Hamas and in 97 they declared Hamas a terrorist organization.I mean Hamas clearly is a terrorist organization. How many raped corpses do they have to drag through the streets to prove it?
With the way people are salivating about Hamas slaughtering Jews, about 6 million I'd guess.
I feel bad for the Palestinians and the Israelis that have gotten sandwiched between two extremes. I wish I could do something for them but quite honestly, I doubt anything I could do would help.
Motherfucker, look at the maps. Hamas is the resistance. Israel is the attacking force that just said "this is my land now and if you don't like it I'm bombing you". You think that's right?
What would you do if someone entered your home, raped and killed your family, claimed it's their home now and then shot you when you tried to stop them? Would you still talk some shit about how trying to take your home back is terrorism?
Sheltered fuck.
Look at the map yourself you ignorant prick. Gaza has the 1967 borders. All of Palestine could have the 1967 borders; but Hamas has decided they're going to be absolutely horrible essentially all of the time.
"Resistance" isn't a justification for war crimes.
Idk, the chemical weapons and internal whistle blowing dont agree with your guess.
Boy, the AI was drinking when it made that summary.
I was reading through it carefully for the issues till I got to the bit where it was explaining unrelated headlines. After that it started to spit out... whatever this was:
I saw the worst summary I've ever seen on a post about a Firefox bug getting fixed recently after 22 years. The summary was like "the day after Firefox launched, this big got fixed!" And it had 10 upvotes
Who the hell is still defending Israel after this declaration to eradicate Palestinians in Gaza?
if your government invade and kill civilians in any country that have a strong army you gonna have a bad time. how do you think Canada would answer this?
and the USA? the Germans?
Imagine a country has blockaded all of your borders. No one can leave, your power plants cant import fuel, not even humanitarian aid is allowed in, and people are dying as a result. You want them to just wait for a slow death?
this shitty false dichotomy again, the options aren't just dying or murdering civilians, but I would rather just die than murder random civilians in a party anyway
Its not a choice between the two, people were already dying. How do you stop them from dying?
I don't think there is a good answer for that, but someone will have to take hamas down. I don't blame the Palestine people for not dying trying to take them down, and I don't blame Israel for doing it either.
On what they should do about Israel, almost any kind of protest you can imagine would give better results than the shit hamas is doing.
They could throw poo on baloons on Israel direction. They could invade dressed weirdly and throwing pies or water on the face of Israelis. Anything that would make them annoyed, think on the problem, and that had the chance of bringing people to their side instead inviting a war they won't win.
Hamas isn't there to solve the problem. They knew from the start what reaction it would cause and that it wouldn't improve palestinian lives or piece. They wanted to make things worse to keep relevant for the people that want war
People who think that eradication of Israel is worse.
I'm not sure it is reasonable to "defend" either side at this point. There are radical and moderate, innocent and guilty, peaceful and violent, reasonable and unreasonable people in both Palestine and Israel, and peace proposals have been made and rejected many times. I doubt many people outside of the situation have unlimited support for either side since both sides have committed atrocities.
I would guess that most observers realize that decades of alternating peace and war in Israel have shown that no lasting peace is possible until one side leaves.
After watching this conflict for 40 years, I have empathy fatigue. I don't really care who wins anymore, but this region has been a powder keg for too long. I also don't care whose "fault" it is anymore. All parties have to leave that behind and get to practical solutions. 75 years of unresolved active conflict is just too long.
Israel is too powerful. It will not be moved or defeated, and another all-out war by another coalition of Arab states will hurt the Palestinians as much as the Israelis. Nor will Israel ever allow the "right-of-return" of millions of Palestinians to Israel proper because then the Jews would be demographically overwhelmed. Therefore, the most practical, peaceful and humane, if not the most just or fair, solution is for most Palestinians to be properly re-settled outside of Israel, far from the Israeli border, where they can start new lives.
I think your sentiment is specifically against arabs. Would you be suggesting people like ukrainians to abandon their country to end the war that another, larger country started?
I love how so many people think the answer to the displaced Palestinians issue, is to evict every Israeli out of the middle East and displace a whole new generation of people. Coexistence is the only path forward but it isn't going to happen with natanyahu and Hamas in charge. The young people need to be given charge of their future
Boy that sure is a lot of words being put in my mouth
No, it has nothing to do with my having a preference for Jews over Arabs, or Ukrainians over Russians, for that matter. If Ukraine and Russia are still fighting and disrupting the region after 75 years, I would say the same thing. In fact, it is sad to say, but most experts think that Ukraine will probably have to trade away some territory for peace. My point is that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for 75 years and won't be settled peacefully as long as Israelis and Palestinians occupy the same land, so some other solution is necessary.
I assume the same applies to the country Russia invades after Ukraine surrenders, like ukraine is after Crimea. And to the next region israel seeks to expand into for Zionism after palestinians are gone.
We are talking along different tracks. Creating the state of Israel in Palestine was obviously a huge mistake, and booting out the Palestinians is certainly unjust. We agree. But now what? People can wish for a more just solution, but 75 years of unresolved conflict and suffering in Israel suggests that less-than-ideal solutions should be considered.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe THIS TIME Israel and Palestine will figure out how to make a lasting peace. But I doubt it.
On their own? Of course not. It's a lesson we've learned before, aggressor states have to be addressed internationally. But currently, the aggressor state is the one being supported internationally. I dont think the people of Israel are like Russia, I think even just pausing aid on the condition that they stop the occupation of Palestinian territory would get them on board. Theyve created a humanitarian nightmare that needs addressing, that can be addressed with international help.
I don't think Israel is an aggressor state at all. Don't forget that Israel has withdrawn from Palestinian territory before, and the result is always more attacks. That's also why Israel still occupies the Golan Heights. Israel has always said that it will trade occupied territory for security guarantees, which no one can give as long as Hamas and Hezbollah are in charge and singularly bent on the destruction of Israel.
But, here we are, going down the same old tired narrative. All of this has been said and tried for decades. It's a frustrating quagmire for a reason. It's time for realpolitik, not another ideological crusade to gain justice for the Palestinian people. The Palestinians need to move on and be supported by the international community to do so. I know that isn't satisfying or fair, but I don't think that a good solution exists.
They should move on without food, water, or power?
Israel is blockading any humanitarian support for Gaza.
So.. In this case, Hamas is Russia and Israel is Ukraine. Hamas is the one who started the latest attack.
That wasnt the beginning of anything, this has been going on for a long time. The latest attacks have been in response to the humanitarian crisis Gaza has been experiencing from Israels blockade of Gazas border, and military occupation within the country. Israel is trying to eliminate Gaza.
Between both sides, are there any military lor political leaders that care about Palestinian civilian lives in war? This whole thing is fucked.
When arned people ask you to not leave it’s called a hostage situation. The mean age in Gaza is 18 years old so we’re talking about kids and parents being told by men with guns to not leave.
When armed people ask you to leave it’s called an illegal invasion. The mean age in Gaza is 18 years old so we’re talking about kids and parents being told by men with guns to abandon their homes forever.
fuck hamas and fuck the idf, but this comment and the one you replied to are quite reductive
no, it's war. you can't attack another country and claim it's illegal when they cross the borders after you
Are you trying to justify the Israeli terrorist bombing on Gaza City? Or are you trying to justify the Hamas terrorist attack of Oct 7?
If we continue to give in to this revenge-driven, bloodthirsty logic then this conflict will never end.
I won't say any war is justified from the comfort of my couch
Crucial missing context: Israel bombed the way out when people tried to take it.
No. They want the people to stay not because they want to use the Palestinians as human shields. The Palestinians, women and children, were already there and they are bombed anyway. They are no such thing as 'Palestinian human shields' in the Israel government dictionary. So it doesn't make sense Hamas wants them to stay just to be human shields.
They are many reasons. One of the main reason, I think because once the Palestinians leave the place, they'll never get it back. They'll be no more Palestinians' Gaza Strip. Israel is going to make a stern example of the Palestinians for humiliating them. They'll never be allowed to come back.
Here is an post (translated to English using Google Translate) that I got from a very popular Israeli Telegram channel that can summarise the sentiment of what should be done.
I wouldn't be surprised if they want them to die to create bad press against Israel.
Both sites are completely fucked up in the head when it comes to valuing civilian lives in this conflict.
Israeli tactics to steal lands.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hamas has called on Palestinians to stay in their homes after Israel issued sweeping evacuation orders for almost half of Gaza’s more than 2.3 million people ahead of an expected ground offensive.
The Hamas authority for refugee affairs today told residents in the north of the territory to “remain steadfast in your homes and to stand firm in the face of this disgusting psychological war waged by the occupation”.
The UN humanitarian office (OCHA) said early on Friday that more than 400,000 people had already fled their homes in the Gaza Strip and 23 aid workers had been killed since the start of Israeli retaliatory strikes in response to the Hamas attack on Saturday.
A jury has convicted one Colorado police officer and acquitted another for the 2019 homicide of Elijah McClain, a 23-year-old whose death at the hands of law enforcement while walking home sparked international outrage and years of protests.
A Guardian investigation has found that a growing number of countries are passing anti-protest laws as part of a playbook of tactics to intimidate people peacefully raising the alarm about the climate.
The draw on Wednesday night ended a long stretch without a winner of the top prize and brought news media to Midway Market and Liquor in Frazier Park, a community of 2,600 residents about 75 miles north of Los Angeles.
The original article contains 954 words, the summary contains 224 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!