Which VPN Providers Really Take Privacy Seriously in 2023? * TorrentFreak
torrentfreak.com
There's way too much hype over VPN Providers, but do not forget, you are routing all your traffic through their servers
As a general advice, if a VPN provider keeps logs of your activity, does not allow you to pay with crypto, and generally spends way too much on youtube ads is probably not an ideal choice.
Do not follow any advice/recommendation blindly, do your own research on which one offers the best service for your own needs.
Something that people need to realize: If you want a VPN for PRIVACY, Mullvad (edit: also maybe IVPN) is the only good option on this list. They make it very easy for you to maintain complete anonymity, they don't even WANT your email address, you can use crypto, or you can literally mail them an envelope of cash with a note inside containing your unique ID and they'll load up your account with that value. It's ridiculous how seriously they take this stuff. And if you're really concerned about privacy, you should also be taking extra steps like using a hardened OS and browser, and using disposable virtual machines. But I suspect that most of us here aren't that concerned with actual privacy.
If you want a VPN for PIRACY, any of these options are probably fine as long as they don't block or slow torrent traffic. Just use the fastest one here that you can afford. The only thing you're really doing in this case is blocking your torrent traffic from your ISP. Remember, if you give them a credit card and your email address, then that's not private! It's just for piracy. It's important to look at your priorities and pick a VPN accordingly.
IVPN and Mullvad are probably the only two that give a shit about privacy. Neither require email or credit cards, and accept cash.
I personally don't care if a vpn requires email as I can create an alias / burner email to use.
I like how IVPN does it, as you have a choice to use a random id or username and password.
Upvote for the mention of IVPN. Only viable alternative to Mullvad.
Nice, didn't know IVPN was as private as Mullvad. I'll edit my comment.
Does that mean when you're opting for the latter the payment method doesn't matter as much?
In my opinion, no. I live in the US where people don't actually get prosecuted for piracy anymore, so I'm really not that concerned. I just want to stop getting letters from my ISP and having them (temporarily) cut my internet off until I watch their "educational" video. If they step up enforcement here, I might become more paranoid and lean more in the privacy direction.
Well said, thank you. I use VPNs for piracy and when I'm on networks I trust less than my VPN provider. If you want privacy or even hide from the government, then your requirements are much, much higher.
This is why I love mullvad. No signing in with username and password, no account information, just keep track of your account number and sign in with that.
If someone starts his list with NordVPN you know its complete and utter bullshit
That's not how the annual Torrentfreak VPN questionnaire works.
It doesn't work good if they act like all those providers are a considerable choice
I still highly recommend Mullvad, they are generally an awesome company and havent had many issues with them beyond a few random sites blocking them which is to be expected.
Mullvad used to be the no-brainer choice until they stopped supporting port forwarding. I kinda need it for seeding. ProtonVPN seems like a good idea for now.
I switched to Torguard and have gotten MUCH better speeds than I do with Proton and marginally better speeds than Mullvad. I had issues setting up port forwarding, but it was user error and Torguard customer support is next fucking level so I got that taken care of.
Overall, no complaints so far.
They also accept crypto payments, however there is an email requirement.
Been using TorGuard for 2 years. My only complaint is that there was this once they insisted it was a client side issue for one of the servers in my home country. I was so pissed off because it was slow and disconnecting all the time and only on that server.
Switched to Mullvad and loved it until port forwarding was removed.. but now I’m back to TorGuard reluctantly. The customer support didn't want to accept the possibility that their servers were going through some issues.. didn’t even bother to check just because the server was online so it had to be client side but ever other server worked perfectly.
I find that weird that so many struggle without port forwarding... my seeding is going just fine without port forwarding.
You'll be fine in public trackers without port forwarding due to the abundance of participants. In private trackers, it matters much more.
What is the difference exactly? Can't tell if I'm missing something fundamental or what. In my head there's no reason you'd run into issues
There's no technical difference, but there are differences in practice.
First of all, in order to transfer any content, one of the participants need an open port. In case of public trackers, there are usually a lot of users, so someone will probably have a port open that you can connect to. Also, many don't even realize that they have open ports, since routers can open them on demand by uPnP. For private trackers, since the userpool is much smaller, it matters more.
Also, for public trackers, you don't really HAVE TO seed and maintain a good ratio. It's the right thing to do, but is by no means a necessity. For private trackers, on the other hand, your account will be suspended in most cases if your ratio goes too low.
I ask because I am on several private trackers and haven't had issues downloading or seeding using mullvad. By what you explained, it shouldn't be working...
I might be wrong, but I think port forwarding is working for already set up ones till 1st July. Or maybe you have a leaking port through uPnP? Again, just possibilities, not sure. Or maybe you've just been lucky and encountered people with open ports.
They recently got visited by officers of the country they’re in. The officers didn’t find shit (no logs, no ips, nothing)
I fully believe this is true, however do you have an article or anything about it?
I suspect this is the incident they're talking about: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/4/20/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised/
Thank you very much!
I use Mozilla VPN, which I believe is just a rebranded Mullvad
never had any issues!
I'd like to use Mozilla VPN so I can support them financially (big Firefox user) but it's still unavailable in my country. I've given up hope at this stage.
Yeah, I would still be using mullvad if they hadn't removed port forwarding -- it's too damn bad but I get why they needed it. Switched to Proton but I imagine they'll run into the same issue down the road and will need to find a more permanent solution.
I use it for 2 years unfortunately from July 1 port forwarding will be removed. Had to switch to another vpn.
I use it for 2 years unfortunately from July 1 port forwarding will be removed. had to switch to another vpn.
Wasn’t PIA bought out by a company that keeps logs a couple years ago? Interesting it made it on this list.
The list are not recommended VPN Providers, they are anything but private since they are using Google services etc
I've been using PIA for years. I didn't know about that. If I were to switch to a new company, any recommendations?
It was a whole hoopla but to what I know they still don't keep logs. I believe one of the times they were asked to appear in court (and gave nothing) was since the purchase.
I switched from PIA to Mullvad w/ Wireguard a few years ago. I use BTC to pay and you don't need to supply an email or any info. They've been great for me.
Yes they were bought by an Israeli spyware company.
@LukeSky53
Yeah kinda sus 👀
I've been using PIA for years for my downloading purposes, as well as having a VPN when I travel. No issues at all and completely reliable. Don't know if I'd trust them to leak state secrets, but not an issue because I don't have any.
I've been using Proton VPN for years without issue. They don't keep any logs.
I switched all my stuff to proton and I am very happy with them.
I think not taking crypto currency is ok, on the other parts i agree.
Thing is crypto currency is relatively unstable.
Paying with credit cards etc deanonymizes you
I'm not a fan of using crypto as an investment tool, but since I cant pay with cash via the internet crypto is the next best option.
Eh your bank just knows you pay for a VPN.
I would like to be able to send a mail with the exact money in cash... But that remains a dream...
Mullvad accepts cash in the mail.
Doesn't Mullvad allow you to pay via mailed money?
Interesting
Some of them log your payment credentials, why would you want your VPN provider to have access to your real name and banking details? Even if you are not pirating content, its just creepy allowing them to do that to you.
Unless you have somekind of a weird fetish that you enjoy knowing that when you browse the web you are not alone and being watched lol
If i don't trust my VPN provider i don't use it at all...
Personally i use Proton Enterprise (yes i need it all for myself, don't ask why) so they already know wo i am, the important part is that they don't give my data to others and don't store stuff that isn't necessary. They take crypto, but thats not exactly a necessity for most people, my bank and Proton are the only parts knowing i pay for a Proton account, if my government knows, wich it only could in a serious investigation against me, well, they don't know what im doing there, they also just know i pay for Proton, wich also provides cloud storage and Email service among others its not illegal or Problematic to have that at all. (also i kinda work for the government so they wouldn't give a fuck anyway...)
Even if you trust them, the VPN provider is the single most important provider you don't want to know details about you. That is because they are the ones who will also know about your real IP address.
Proton is a solid choice, they have awesome plans to bundle it with their email services afaik.
But when it comes to "trust" I also trust my grocery store service, but I like to have the ability to just pay with cash and not have them log me by name each time I enter their store and what I'm looking at while in there, its creepy and unethical and we should not support those services.
I don't understand the downvotes. Crypto is ideal way of paying if you want to stay anonymous. Even Mullvad says that if you pay with Paypal that there's some data they are required to keep on file.
Crypto isn't anonymous though from my understanding. Since every transaction gets recorded, you can be identified through your transaction history.
It's true and not true. If you're not careful, you can get identified even while using cryptocurrency because the ledgers are all public. If anyone can figure out that you're tied to a single one of your historical transactions, they can trace everything your "wallet" has ever done. But if you use single-use wallets, crypto shufflers, whatever else the kids have going these days, you can be untraceable. The easiest way to do private crypto is to use Monero, which automatically handles most privacy concerns.
Edit: A small vid on monero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7sLnmlZ-kU
I'm not immersed in the cryptocurrency world day-to-day so if anything has changed lmk
True with Bitcoin. Not with Monero if I understand correctly.
You can also pay for mullvad by mailing them cash with a note saying which account to apply it to. I did it once just for fun.
The have voucher codes you can buy. Not quite sure if you will find them anywhere to buy in cash tho. Personally don't care too much. Using a VPN isn't illegal where I live.
@CookieJarObserver
If I were to guess, the reason comes down to pseudonymity (or anonymity if it accepts Monero).
Yeah i get that, but the only thing that can be found out is that you pay for a VPN, nothing else, and crypto isn't that much more private compared to credit, debit or paypal.
I use Mullvad. They have you buy time upfront at a fixed price, have lots of payment options, and at one point were subpoenaed and proved to the Swedish government they don't store any user data and therefore have nothing to turn over. They have a nice app too, I like them.
They're disabling port forwarding due to some bad actors... That's why we can't have nice things.
For those who don't know, port forwarding is mainly used for torrent seeders, aka the people who upload files to other people.
That's a shame. I hope it causes more services to be cool with their IP addresses, but it's unfortunate for toerrenting and running local forwarded servers.
I also use mullvad. They're the best I've used and offer tons of servers across the globe
Indeed, apparently there are some American-based VPN companies that piggyback off their servers, so I figured why not use the service directly. Their apps are also full of features, so I really think the €5 a month price is worth it.
The biggest problem of Mullvard, when I tried it, is that I cannot access to any streaming services. While atm with proton I have no problem at all
Apparently the reason for that is because malicious actors were port forwarding using Mullvad. They're now disabling that feature, so it's possible they will be whitelisted again in the future.
You should not trust any provider that says they do not keeps logs unless they have been audited by a reputable 3rd party and then you are putting your trust in that 3rd party. Anyone can say that they do not keep logs so it's absolutely meaningless, there really is no way to know unless you admin the server.
The secret service used a honeypot VPN to successfully take down ShadowCrew almost 20 years ago. They have had the blueprint for 2 decades, so I wouldn't be surprised if half these VPNs secretly cooperate with them over higher profile cases despite their claims.
"Private Internet Access has verified in court multiple times that we keep no logs."
If they've gone to court on multiple occasions and proven they keep no logs, that's pretty compelling evidence that they're telling the truth. I guess you could never be 100% sure though.
Was that before or after they got bought out?
Before I'm pretty sure. They used to be common recommendations for this reason.
Torguard has also proven no logs in court, and I believe they also have never been acquired.
Some companies like Mullvad have no way to even keep logs
I'm not familiar with them, can you explain how you are certain they don't keep logs?
No way to be 100% sure, but they were raided by police recently and supposedly walked away with nothing. Verge article
SomeOrdinaryGamers had a video on it also.
You're right, although it's not proof, this is pretty compelling.
There are other VPN providers that offer similar stuff to mullvad, I can keep going for days.
TL;DR They do not ask you for any info that would deanonymize you & support FOSS projects
None of those things are proof that they don't keep logs. You're proving my point, and trusting a company because they have said the right things.
They do not ask for information that would deanonymize you would be a better way of putting that
I just shared a link where they answer those questions in much more detail that I can do via Lemmy commet replies. If you have specific questions please share them, if someone wants to help you out they will reply, otherwise just read the article and try different VPN providers out yoruself.
edit: formatting replies edit2: Because you edited your reply you should NEVER trust any company with your personal information. You should just NOT give it to them, I do not trust Mullvad or any other "privacy" related company to store data that would deanonymize me, you are proving my point that you do not read what I'm typing or the article I've shared.
They wouldn't need to ask for any info, and it doesn't matter how you pay either. Having your connecting IP address is all that is needed to identify you.
I've looked through it, there is no proof that they do not keep logs.
And I don't need help, you do, in understanding how proof and verification works. Go back to my original comment, and let me know if you have any proof that any of these providers don't keep logs.
I think that no amount of verification or technical details would satisfy you, because you could simply turn around and say, "well that might have been the case on the day is was verified, but what about the day after?" or "why should we trust the independent auditor?" In other words, you are just trolling. If you are the one claiming they are not trustworthy, despite them having an almost flawless reputation, then the onus is on you to provide evidence to back up your claims, not the other way around.
You should have "How do I know if they are not keeping logs of my IP address connections"
Your IP address does not always relate to you, either because you are using a public wifi(that you can bypass the payment portal thanks to mullvad btw) or on top of tor etc.
Your ISP is also a company, and as I said above you should not share your private information with them if possible and legal in your country.
They also claim:
Which I have to guess is true for all the police raids they had that left the police with 0 evidence.
Ask specific questions, and be nice to others. You won't learn much here otherwise, and if you know everything, why even post?
I do not advocate for mullvad, there are many other companies that are valid choices. That's why I posted this to learn what others use or maybe some that are not even listed by torrentfreaks not to argue about the no-log policy of Mullvad.
I never stated I knew everything. I asked you to back up your claim and you've failed to do it.
The only reason we are arguing is because I'm holding your claims to the burden of proof. You can stop being a blowhard whenever you want but you're right, people are here to learn, so I'm doing them a service by calling out your misinformation.
Mysterium Network
If you want privacy and great speeds better to use a dVPN.
Anyone used ProtonVPN before? What's your thought?
Years ago I did it on a Black Friday or Christmas deal. They gave me instructions to test that my IP wasn't leaking and their support was very helpful in confirming. I think they gave me protonmail for free alongside my subscription at the time?
They were pretty fast and I felt user-friendly.
I hadn't used them in years so not sure if any of these still hold true though.
So how bad is nord vpn seeing as that is all over YouTube?
@rimorso @equalszero well I would say its okay. I enjoyed using it. Others I’ve used and like would be mullvad and protonvpn.
I use windscribe wich is rated quiet highly on some privacy blogs. Furthermore, their free plan (with discount code) is quite generous. I got 50gb per month for free. I can't verify their no log policy, but at least they weren't involved in a scandal yet, which you can't say about a most VPN services :(
I recently made the switch from Surfshark to Mullvad. No real complaints about the actual VPN service with Surfshark, but the desktop app was constantly advertising their other products and was becoming bloated. Mullvad just does what I want it to do with little fuss.
Pity they removed port forwarding.
Ive been using IPVanish for years without an issue.
I've been using AirVPN for a long time now and can 100% recommend it, they even have port forwarding.
I've used them for well over ten years at this point. Highly recommended from me too.
They used to be one of the more commonly recommended services a few years ago, but they seem to have sort-of slipped off most people's radar. I'm not sure why.
Mullvad Mullvad Mullvad
I use mysterium VPN because it has residential IPs, but remember that all your traffic is going through some random person's network.
For android Orbot, it's not a VPN, but it has VPN mode.