I much prefer the Steam Decks approach on handheld gaming. Instead of matching the latest desktop systems in hardware they focus on the console-like experience.
I also like how they try to stay within a certain price range and focus on experience and efficiency, rather than push the latest hardware.
I highly doubt Valve makes a significant profit on Steam Decks, though. Their main win from selling them is that they keep people that have off-desktop gaming needs using their products/games. (Plus, I think Valve just likes advancing gaming even when it doesn't win them a profit)
Basically, it's not surprising these other hardware makers don't have any business model where they can sell a cheap handheld. It's probably smarter to go for the niche of enthusiasts that want something stronger than the Deck.
It's also because they want to advance gaming on Linux specifically.
When Windows 8 released, Microsoft was pushing their app store, ARM devices that could only access the Windows store, and Windows Phones. Valve became scared - Microsoft clearly wanted their future to be installing software through the Microsoft store.
They also added an "Xbox" app to windows - a clear indication that MS wanted to bring that business to PC, and have an unfair advantage by having their services pre-installed.
Gabe Newell has worked for Microsoft before and he knows just how ruthless and anti-competitive Microsoft can be. He knew that while Valve was 100% dependent on Windows, Valve was at risk.
So they brought out the Linux client and released Steam Machines, which as we all remember were a flop due to limited game compatibility and poor performance.
So Valve got to work on adapting WINE to create Proton, a Windows compatibility layer integrated into Steam. They put money into Linux development, then, when Proton was good enough, they released the Steam Deck.
Make no mistake, the Steam Deck is ultimately a part of Valve's overarching plan to reduce dependency on a hostile competitor that controls the entire platform that they operate on.
And I love them for it because I also want to reduce dependency on that company.
Agree on both points. It's nice to have options. I think the real fun will begin when Valve opens SteamOS up for other platforms, so it can be put on these higher-end handhelds, and even desktops.
SteamOS is already open source, and they’ve even offered to help other integrators put it on their handhelds
Isn't this true for most home consoles as well? Way I understand it Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles at near loss with the intention of making the money back on subscriptions and licensing
My bet is that with them being more popular than anyone could have expected, we'll see the release of a "gaming" version of Windows that better fits these devices.
I don't expect Microsoft to put time and effort into something like that unless they plan to make an Xbox portable of their own.
That wouldn't be very surprising either honestly, pretty sure their console sales have never been the best of the big three, they have the resources and could push game pass hard with that...
Some CEO guy is salivating over this right now probably
I would consider getting one even if I've got a Deck already
That seems to be more of a software plan than a hardware feature, though? I would bet, with some brief engineering, someone could make all these Lenovo/MSI/Asus products run SteamOS as far back as their startup tutorial instead of Windows.
Wow, finally a handheld with malware-like bloat and a near guarantee of serious design flaws!
Isn't that every Windows handheld?
Yes but just wait til Gigabyte gets their hands in the game. It will. E so much worse.
Wow! Intel processor AND Windows? The worst of both choices for a handheld!
Might make a superb hand-warmer in these cold Winter months, though
This thing having 32gb of ram is complete overkill, but I genuinely don't expect it to have good battery life at all, which is the bigger issue
Probably required that much ram to feed to windows.
32GB could be useful if the bandwidth is fast enough to be suitable VRAM, because then you can run games that want 16GB allocated to the CPU without having a GPU performance drop
I've seen comparisons of the 32GB vs 16GB GPD Win4 and there's about a 10-15% uplift in performance at the same TDP in a lot of games with the 32GB model.
So it can give an increase in performance, or at the least let you run at a slightly lower TDP for the same performance and a bit better battery life.
Of course this was the 6800U, hard to say if the effects are similar for Intel's chipset or not.
If that’s the case, that’s great. We’ll have to wait until benchmarks drop eventually
Sometimes I run out of RAM on my steam deck. But that's more of a game problem. It happens when I don't restart Forza 5 for a long time. 16GB wouldn't be a problem if it had dedicated VRAM.
This thing is going to have like a minute and a half worth of battery life.
Just shows how successful the Stream Deck is. Funny, the "PC selling game" has traditionally been BIGGER and FASTER, so that's what they're doing. 🤔
Go Steam Deck!
Just looks crappy quality and uncomfortable. The Steam Deck is premium quality at a more affordable price, the point these 'competitors' seem to be missing while rushing for higher numbers on their spec sheets.
Huh, I find the deck to be the ugliest though, but still the best since it's battery life is unbeatable.
Yes lets use the lesser efficient chip option for a portable device.
Sure, but only if we can do it in a combo with a lesser efficient operating system for any device.
Well Arc is still bad as far as I know so I don't see this being as good as Steam Deck, Rog Ally or Legion. But I would really like to be proven wrong!
Arc is good at newer games, however a handheld is more likely than most devices to play older games so maybe not the best choice.
The battery life difference between the OLED Steam Deck versus the Asus and Lenovo competitors was a major factor in my decision to choose the Deck. As others have pointed out, it's hard to imagine that MSI (of all companies) can deliver on battery life given these other specs, let alone other considerations like weight & size. Good for them if they manage to excel at all of these things, but I'm going to have to see it to believe it. And as of right now, I haven't seen anything at all.
Interesting how handheld gaming is slowly changing the gaming focus.
It would be good if more developers optimize to have an enjoyable experience on these current handhelds if nothing else. It would make for an easier entry point as far as system requirements go for PC gaming in general. I still don't get how games that look hardly any better than GameCube or PS2 on their low to medium settings run so poorly on hardware that could simultaneously emulate multiple instances of the consoles on multiple monitors, with visual improvement mods, for bootleg tournaments without breaking a sweat.
This device looks like just a slightly less ugly rog handheld, but not significantly though.
During the valve panel on Tokyo Game Show, Harada from tekken said that the deck is now the main target for optimization for them, since it's basically a console just not locked down.
I would love it if T8 could lock a solid 60fps on the deck. T7 fluctuates between 45 to 60 for me with everything set to low, not ideal for a fighting game.
Intel chip on portables, oh no.
It looks so much like the Asus ROG Ally, I wonder if Asus could sue for infringement. I love my Ally, but 32 gb of RAM sounds nice. Not sure if Intel is the best chip choice, but only benchmarks will tell.
It doesn't just look like the Ally, it looks like they used the exact same PCBs with a slightly different exterior. Same Led joysticks, same screen bezels, same button locations...
Even the small vertical buttons on the left and right of the screen are present.
If it wasn't running an Intel chip I'd be calling this an exact internal replica of the ROG ally.
No trackpads? I’m straight-up not interested. With how finicky PC gaming can be when it comes to window-focus issues, if I don’t have extra controls on a handheld PC to be able to randomly click or mash emulated keyboard keys I’m not gonna feel comfortable with the handheld.
I'm wondering if it's a touch screen to help with that. I prefer steam controller track pads, but I could get by with a touchscreen for portable in some games.
Is the "Intel chip" a good or bad news? I7 seems good. Although the screen seems to be a "bit small" for a 2024 console, and no trackpad? Mmm.
Probably bad news. Even though the newest intel chip is way better than the last one, it uses a lot more power than AMD meaning the battery and thermals will be worse.
So basically a Black Rog Ally even more power-hungry. Ty for the reply btw 👍
That fucking name is reason not to buy it already.
It's not even claw, it's CLAW grrrrr fear me and my pocket Cheeto dust.
It reminds me of when yoyos (yep I'm that old) were trying to be like "this is the spinanator 6000 XL Xtreme fireball mushroom cloud"
I much prefer the Steam Decks approach on handheld gaming. Instead of matching the latest desktop systems in hardware they focus on the console-like experience.
I also like how they try to stay within a certain price range and focus on experience and efficiency, rather than push the latest hardware.
I highly doubt Valve makes a significant profit on Steam Decks, though. Their main win from selling them is that they keep people that have off-desktop gaming needs using their products/games. (Plus, I think Valve just likes advancing gaming even when it doesn't win them a profit)
Basically, it's not surprising these other hardware makers don't have any business model where they can sell a cheap handheld. It's probably smarter to go for the niche of enthusiasts that want something stronger than the Deck.
It's also because they want to advance gaming on Linux specifically.
When Windows 8 released, Microsoft was pushing their app store, ARM devices that could only access the Windows store, and Windows Phones. Valve became scared - Microsoft clearly wanted their future to be installing software through the Microsoft store.
They also added an "Xbox" app to windows - a clear indication that MS wanted to bring that business to PC, and have an unfair advantage by having their services pre-installed.
Gabe Newell has worked for Microsoft before and he knows just how ruthless and anti-competitive Microsoft can be. He knew that while Valve was 100% dependent on Windows, Valve was at risk.
So they brought out the Linux client and released Steam Machines, which as we all remember were a flop due to limited game compatibility and poor performance.
So Valve got to work on adapting WINE to create Proton, a Windows compatibility layer integrated into Steam. They put money into Linux development, then, when Proton was good enough, they released the Steam Deck.
Make no mistake, the Steam Deck is ultimately a part of Valve's overarching plan to reduce dependency on a hostile competitor that controls the entire platform that they operate on.
And I love them for it because I also want to reduce dependency on that company.
Agree on both points. It's nice to have options. I think the real fun will begin when Valve opens SteamOS up for other platforms, so it can be put on these higher-end handhelds, and even desktops.
SteamOS is already open source, and they’ve even offered to help other integrators put it on their handhelds
Isn't this true for most home consoles as well? Way I understand it Microsoft and Sony sell their consoles at near loss with the intention of making the money back on subscriptions and licensing
My bet is that with them being more popular than anyone could have expected, we'll see the release of a "gaming" version of Windows that better fits these devices.
I don't expect Microsoft to put time and effort into something like that unless they plan to make an Xbox portable of their own.
That wouldn't be very surprising either honestly, pretty sure their console sales have never been the best of the big three, they have the resources and could push game pass hard with that...
Some CEO guy is salivating over this right now probably
I would consider getting one even if I've got a Deck already
That seems to be more of a software plan than a hardware feature, though? I would bet, with some brief engineering, someone could make all these Lenovo/MSI/Asus products run SteamOS as far back as their startup tutorial instead of Windows.
Wow, finally a handheld with malware-like bloat and a near guarantee of serious design flaws!
Isn't that every Windows handheld?
Yes but just wait til Gigabyte gets their hands in the game. It will. E so much worse.
Wow! Intel processor AND Windows? The worst of both choices for a handheld!
Might make a superb hand-warmer in these cold Winter months, though
For 10 minutes before it needs charging again
This thing having 32gb of ram is complete overkill, but I genuinely don't expect it to have good battery life at all, which is the bigger issue
Probably required that much ram to feed to windows.
32GB could be useful if the bandwidth is fast enough to be suitable VRAM, because then you can run games that want 16GB allocated to the CPU without having a GPU performance drop
I've seen comparisons of the 32GB vs 16GB GPD Win4 and there's about a 10-15% uplift in performance at the same TDP in a lot of games with the 32GB model.
So it can give an increase in performance, or at the least let you run at a slightly lower TDP for the same performance and a bit better battery life.
Of course this was the 6800U, hard to say if the effects are similar for Intel's chipset or not.
If that’s the case, that’s great. We’ll have to wait until benchmarks drop eventually
Sometimes I run out of RAM on my steam deck. But that's more of a game problem. It happens when I don't restart Forza 5 for a long time. 16GB wouldn't be a problem if it had dedicated VRAM.
This thing is going to have like a minute and a half worth of battery life.
Just shows how successful the Stream Deck is. Funny, the "PC selling game" has traditionally been BIGGER and FASTER, so that's what they're doing. 🤔
Go Steam Deck!
Just looks crappy quality and uncomfortable. The Steam Deck is premium quality at a more affordable price, the point these 'competitors' seem to be missing while rushing for higher numbers on their spec sheets.
Huh, I find the deck to be the ugliest though, but still the best since it's battery life is unbeatable.
Yes lets use the lesser efficient chip option for a portable device.
Sure, but only if we can do it in a combo with a lesser efficient operating system for any device.
Well Arc is still bad as far as I know so I don't see this being as good as Steam Deck, Rog Ally or Legion. But I would really like to be proven wrong!
Arc is good at newer games, however a handheld is more likely than most devices to play older games so maybe not the best choice.
The battery life difference between the OLED Steam Deck versus the Asus and Lenovo competitors was a major factor in my decision to choose the Deck. As others have pointed out, it's hard to imagine that MSI (of all companies) can deliver on battery life given these other specs, let alone other considerations like weight & size. Good for them if they manage to excel at all of these things, but I'm going to have to see it to believe it. And as of right now, I haven't seen anything at all.
Interesting how handheld gaming is slowly changing the gaming focus.
It would be good if more developers optimize to have an enjoyable experience on these current handhelds if nothing else. It would make for an easier entry point as far as system requirements go for PC gaming in general. I still don't get how games that look hardly any better than GameCube or PS2 on their low to medium settings run so poorly on hardware that could simultaneously emulate multiple instances of the consoles on multiple monitors, with visual improvement mods, for bootleg tournaments without breaking a sweat.
This device looks like just a slightly less ugly rog handheld, but not significantly though.
During the valve panel on Tokyo Game Show, Harada from tekken said that the deck is now the main target for optimization for them, since it's basically a console just not locked down.
I would love it if T8 could lock a solid 60fps on the deck. T7 fluctuates between 45 to 60 for me with everything set to low, not ideal for a fighting game.
Intel chip on portables, oh no.
It looks so much like the Asus ROG Ally, I wonder if Asus could sue for infringement. I love my Ally, but 32 gb of RAM sounds nice. Not sure if Intel is the best chip choice, but only benchmarks will tell.
It doesn't just look like the Ally, it looks like they used the exact same PCBs with a slightly different exterior. Same Led joysticks, same screen bezels, same button locations...
Even the small vertical buttons on the left and right of the screen are present.
If it wasn't running an Intel chip I'd be calling this an exact internal replica of the ROG ally.
No trackpads? I’m straight-up not interested. With how finicky PC gaming can be when it comes to window-focus issues, if I don’t have extra controls on a handheld PC to be able to randomly click or mash emulated keyboard keys I’m not gonna feel comfortable with the handheld.
I'm wondering if it's a touch screen to help with that. I prefer steam controller track pads, but I could get by with a touchscreen for portable in some games.
Is the "Intel chip" a good or bad news? I7 seems good. Although the screen seems to be a "bit small" for a 2024 console, and no trackpad? Mmm.
Probably bad news. Even though the newest intel chip is way better than the last one, it uses a lot more power than AMD meaning the battery and thermals will be worse.
So basically a Black Rog Ally even more power-hungry. Ty for the reply btw 👍
That fucking name is reason not to buy it already.
It's not even claw, it's CLAW grrrrr fear me and my pocket Cheeto dust.
It reminds me of when yoyos (yep I'm that old) were trying to be like "this is the spinanator 6000 XL Xtreme fireball mushroom cloud"