Where can a Boomer catch up on current computer/software technology?locked
I have an eight-year-old laptop that needs replacing and I’m paralyzed. What are the most reliable ones now? Do I need a desktop for CAD? Pros and cons of operating systems (and where do I find them?) Browsers ditto? Where do I find answers that aren’t just product marketing?
Desktops have a lot more bang-per-buck than laptops, and are significantly more repairable/upgradable. Laptops make a lot of compromises to squeeze everything into a portable form-factor that runs on batteries. However, only you can say whether that outweighs the space/portability benefits of a laptop, for your use-case.
I'm a sysadmin, I work with Linux every single day, and I say to you: do not go Linux. It isn't designed for what you want it for; it's somewhere between the hobbyist/industrial spaces, whereas you want and need something consumer-focused. Get a nice straightforward Windows box.
Macs are also decent, though they're even more bucks-per-bang than laptops, and there aren't mac versions of every application; you'd need to check what's out there.
Operating systems come with the computer if you're buying them retail; you can buy them separately if you're building from parts. Linux is free to download.
Laptops can be ergonomics hell; tiny keyboards, little screens right at desk level - if you're working at them all day, a proper monitor and keyboard are de rigeur - at which point, you may as well have a desktop, unless you need to take your computer with you when you go places.
Brands, ehh. HP and Dell are decent, but whatever. Or if you're a getting a desktop, you could build your own and save a packet, but that's a whole other rabbit hole of complexity to dive into.
You need SSD, not HDD. HDD is slow as hell, physically fragile, makes annoying grunting noises... just don't even consider it. SSD is unbelievably faster and better in every respect. A little more expensive, but worth every penny. Don't go less than 500GB, preferably 1TB.
RAM, you need 16GB at the bare minimum; consider 32GB.
Monitors: preferably 27", at least 1920x1080, consider 2560x1440 or even 4k. You don't need high refresh rate, you do want an IPS-type panel. Having two monitors will greatly improve your quality of life, if you can swing it.
CPU: there's a million and thirty different ones out there. Just get something released in the last couple of years, you'll be fine in most cases. There's usually a shoulder in the price-performance curve about 75% of the way up the rankings; that's the optimal place to buy if you want something that will keep you going a good while without getting ridiculous.
My god, thank you!
His advice is fantastic but I have to mention 1 thing... HP is TERRIBLE. I'm a repair technician and we get so many of these damn things, it's like 10% to 20% of our business, and we repair iPhones, androids, iPads, Mac's, PC desktops, laptops, gaming PCs and even vintage computers.
This is because of how HP laptops are designed. All of the components and hinge assembly are attached to this thin flimsy plastic palm rest, it has the rigidity of a wet newspaper. During use, opening and closing, the plastic flexes constantly and over time the plastic gives, snaps and the laptop can no longer stay open.
Not only do they break frequently but the repair is expensive. Since everything is attached to the palm rest a technician needs to gut, then reinstall every component onto a new palm rest. Around 1-2 hours. Troubleshooting and testing afterwards also takes longer, as every component has been "fooled around with" there's a high likelihood for mistakes.
It stings when I have to tell customers that the repair for their $500 laptop is like 250 or 300$.
Oh: if you're doing fancy-schmancy 3d industrial CAD stuff for designing car engines or the like, you'd want to make sure you have a nice GPU, which is typically in the 'gaming laptop' category if you're going laptop.
However if you're just doing ordinary diagrams and stuff, then onboard video will be absolutely fine.
With all the die hard Linux enthusiasts in the fediverse, it's nice to see such a sane and reasonable take. Linux is great for hobbyists and for specific use cases and I've been there, but it doesn't really make sense for the general consumer who just wants shit to work.
All hail the banana king
Desktop vs laptop doesn't matter much for any given CAD software. Just make sure you hit the recommend specs of whatever software you're looking to use.
The bigger thing will be if whatever CAD software that is is Windows exclusive or not. I'd check that before deciding to go the Linux route (which most people on here are going to try to steer you towards.)
Good point!
I'll say as a cad professional, the linux space was abandoned by the largest companies a while ago. Unless you go browser based (onshape) your software will either be less mature (Freecad, solvespace) or straightup script based (openscad).
Or you will have to use a dedicated VM but IMHO it's not worth it when you can just dual-boot.
There's truth in this, but also caveats. I work with a bunch of mechanical engineers. In the warmer months, while working on really complex drawings, they need to take frequent breaks.
It's because laptops are designed to be compact, by sacrificing airflow. So when they run anything heavy, the CPU would heat up and start throttling itself.
On a desktop, easily solved by slapping on a semi-decent cheap cooler. On laptops, well, you take frequent breaks.
you could get round this a bit by going for laptops that are designed to be used under load for extended periods of time... like gaming laptops.
Despite the good specs i wouldn't want to be doing much heavy computing on a thin and light
Nah nah nah nah just make em all draw in the walk in.
If the CAD package can leverage GPU computing, then an eGPU is a good compromise. That way you can have plenty of power and airflow at the desk for intensive tasks, but you don't need to lug all the hardware to the floor for interfacing with plc's or to meetings. Although systems with good eGPU support are often expensive enough that keeping a separate desktop workstation and a lightweight laptop is competitive.
High single core cpu clock speeds and lots of ram should be the first priority for cad. Solidworks, for example, does not handle running out of ram gracefully at all.
Probably not, unless your models are really complicated or you do heavy duty finite-element analysis or something and thus need a high-end GPU. (If that were you, you'd know it and wouldn't have needed to ask.)
Linux is the best, but if your use-case is CAD you're likely stuck on Windows because Autodesk etc. are run by assholes (in other words, because most CAD software only runs in Windows).
Firefox, because it's the only reasonably-mainstream browser that doesn't use the same rendering engine as Chrome. You shouldn't use any Chromium-based browser because allowing Google to have hegemony over web standards is bad for the Internet and society as a whole.
Preach it, brother!
Lots of good info on laptops here without all the marketing junk: https://www.rtings.com/laptop/reviews/best
Get Windows 11 Pro (not Home), so you have more options for turning off annoying crap built-in to Windows.
For CAD get at least 16GB of RAM, but I’d recommend 32 or 64.
Mouse reviews: https://www.rtings.com/mouse
CAD would benefit from a larger monitor than a laptop can have: https://www.rtings.com/monitor
If you do consider Linux, check out https://system76.com/ — If you get one of their computers, Linux (Pop!_OS) comes pre installed, is supported by this company, and would be pretty similar to using Windows or MacOS.
Thanks, you gave me lots of good resources here!
Framework is the laptop designed intentionally to be fixed. They just came out with a big size version with a dedicated GPU since you mentioned CAD.
You don’t need a desktop for CAD anymore.
If it’s your livelihood then stick with Windows. If you need a little reliability then Ubuntu will have the most support. Otherwise, pick your flavor of Linux that you like most.
Browsers are chromium v Firefox. They will both get the job done. Chrome (google version of chromium) plays nicest with your google account.
As for answers, unfortunately you have to hit up multiple sources for any question. Usually ask a pc magazine, YouTube, and Reddit/Lenny and compare the answers while remembering their base motivations for providing answer.
Not for the raw processing power, but anyone doing serious CAD work is going to want at least a 21" monitor, relying on just the laptop screen is going to be difficult especially (and I speak as someone aged over 50 myself) as your eyes become less able to focus on fine details as you get older.
So OP needs to decide if they're going to want to use the machine for other things as well, in which case a laptop + external monitor might be fine, or if it's a dedicated work/hobby CAD machine in which case why not get the desktop + monitor.
Good points!
I'm on a 7 year old laptop, i7-7500U CPU, 32gb RAM and run Solidworks in a VM as I'm also running Linux.
It handles parts fine, but struggles a bit with very large assemblies and rendering on surfaces. This I assume is the lack of dedicated GPU.
There's many aspects of Solidworks that are CPU-bound. Worse, they're only utilising a single core. It's ridiculous for 2024.
I'm on a rather old version of Solidworks, for various reasons, but had hoped for some improvement by now.
Although, I'm not surprised. Many, if not all of the 'premium' CAD and CAM software I have used have no multi-threading either.
If you're looking at new laptops, there's two main things to look out for IMO: soldered on RAM, and a plastic chassis.
Over the years I've had the unfortunate experience of repairing so many broken HP laptops in particular that I just avoid them out of principle. They tend to place a lot of heat generating components internally right beside the lid hinge, causing the plastic there to weaken and start to break off. On some occasions I've seen this plastic get stuck inside the nearby CPU fan, which causes the laptop to overheat and shut down on you without warning.
There are other companies that used to be more sensible with their component placement, like Asus and Fujitsu, but IMO it would be relatively safe to pick a laptop with a non-plastic chassis that feels good to use.
No, a desktop is not mandatory for CAD. I personally use both a 4 yo desktop and a 12 yo laptop just fine
Everyone else has posted some really helpful answers for your other questions so I'll end my post here!
Good tip on the plastic chassis, thanks!
A number of posts have mentioned brands, but it's very important to consider the line within the brand. Consumer-oriented lines from HP (Pavilion, Essential), Dell (Inspiron, Vostro), and Lenovo (Idea pad, Legion) are absolutely terrible. Plastic everything, difficult/impossible repairs, no upgrades, etc. Every corner that can be cut, has.
Instead, look to the enterprise lines. Lenovo Thinkpad (my preference)/Think centre, Dell Latitude/Precision, HP Elitebook. I usually find the older ones (3-5 years old) that are off-least after enterprises are done with them, do a minor upgrade, and I'm good to go for a long time. Obviously that will depend on your needs, skill set, and desires.
HP is terrible at every level. Dell and Lenovo enterprise machines are fine
Can you elaborate? I have quite a few people around me using HP (mostly probook) and everyone gives it as recommendation.
Even Lenovo dropped the ball on their latest Thinkpads. Terrible thermal design, they messed up their BIOS (long boot times, Lenovo support just told my colleague to roll back to an older version, lol. Then the next support call they wouldn't give support because he wasn't on the newest version). Overall total bullshit for fully decked out $3000 machines.
Personally I'd never buy a laptop if I can avoid it, desktop parts are just so much better and cost less.
Lots of great recommendations here. I’ll add some things:
Thank you for your input! I’m hoping to do some 3D work, but I have the same view as you of Windows’ future. I will have to determine what I can live with: ads in the OS or 2D CAD.
I'll give you some general advice and am happy to answer any follow up questions you might have.
Upfront, I recommend getting a laptop from a well known vendor running Windows. If you aren't looking to go on a technology learning expedition, just need something that will work, and will have a warranty and a support line if things go wrong, you can't beat a vendor. Dell is probably where I would look, but Microsoft surface, and Thinkpad's are also good.
Going with Windows from a vendor supplied laptop will maximize the amount of support you have and the number of things that just work.
If you are looking for more of a technology project, I'd need to know more about what your tolerance is for fiddling with technology or your computer not working.
As for CAD, as others said, check the recommended software specs and match your computer to them. Make sure you give yourself plenty of fast storage like m.2.
For browsers, I use Firefox. I'd recommend Firefox as being a good balance between privacy and just working with plugin support. But chrome and other chromium based browsers like edge also just work.
Consider getting a Microsoft 365 personal or family account. For $100/year you get cloud storage, computer backups, and the local and online office suite, and it all integrates well into Windows.
If any of the above assumptions are wrong, I'm happy to update recommendations.
Finally, how do you learn to fish? It takes time to come up to speed on things, so slowly learning, finding neutral review sites like maybe Tom's hardware, and doing your own testing.
Lots of people will give you opinionated advice, so don't be afraid to be skeptical. Think about what's important to you, whether that be just working, or privacy, or availability of support materials.
Right now I’m skeptical of anyone who is trying to sell me something. Thanks for mentioning Tom’s Hardware, I’ll take a look at them. One of my concerns is privacy, and I’d rather not store things on the cloud. Of course, maybe it’s too late for privacy, but that’s a whole ‘nother question!
Macbook Air. Do an experiment and try one in the Apple Store and don't worry about reading up before. Just ask to try
Maybe book an appointment so you have a block of space for getting everything up configured
Based on your needs, I think it would be best to avoid Linux as an operating system which people will likely try to steer you towards here. A lot of commercial/CAD software will likely be Windows-only and it's not worth trying to set up a compatibility layer and troubleshooting issues when they pop up.
If you're looking for a reliable laptop, I can say Lenovo and Dell are generally reliable. If you wanted to go the Apple hardware I also don't think you could go wrong with a Macbook if you can afford it, which you could install Windows or any other OS on if you need to.
I have a work-issued Dell laptop which can take a beating and is okay, albeit a bit old at this point and due for a replacement. I have a Macbook Pro that I bought in 2013 and is still going strong, but 11 years later is feeling its age. And I have an MSI gaming laptop which is powerful, but I am not sure is going to survive another couple years.
If you want to go the desktop route, you have a lot more flexibility when it comes to specs and you have the advantage of not having all your components on a single board, so that way down the road if a component fails or you want to add more RAM or add more storage space, you can pretty much swap anything out instead of replacing the entire unit. I don't know if there's a "Build a PC" community here on Lemmy but if you take a look at the requirements for the software you want to use and look around the internet for builds that meet those requirements, it will help give an idea of what components you might want to buy.
Not to mention, of course, that Dell and the like will also sell prebuilt desktops with hardware you're looking for, albeit with a bit of a markup.
Thanks!
How complex are the things you're looking at modeling in CAD? I bought a used Dell Latitude 7400 with an i5 to putter around on when I don't want to sit in front of my fixed position tower. It's truly not a very impressive device from a specifications perspective, but it runs fusion 360 well enough for basic CAD work (single, non-complex components). Fusion 360 has given me warnings about the computer specs, but I haven't run into any performance issues.
You'll want an external mouse, but that's not a big deal.
I haven't tried loading a larger model on it though. I suspect it would work, but it would struggle a bit more.
If you're going to get a laptop, I suggest buying an "enterprise" model. They're generally better built than the consumer models.
I honestly don’t know. Some architectural stuff (ie a porch) and smaller mechanical assemblies (toys).
1st thing I'd do is set your requirements. What are you using this laptop for? Do you need to run specific software for it? What does that software need to run well. You mentioned CAD, I had a look at the System Requirements for AutoCAD and most of this is very easy to pick out on a spec sheet and as long as you're not picking the cheapest machine you should be fine. The only specifically weird one is the bandwidth requirement for the GPU, but pretty much any chip less than 5 years old should be fine. You can search the model on wikipedia for the bandwidth figures.
As for the whole laptop vs desktop debate, laptops give you portability, whereas a desktop is more erganomic; a laptop can be taken anywhere and as long as you're not using super power hungry parts you should be able to get a few hours out of it without needing mains power. A desktop allows you to place the keyboard, mouse, and screen in a way which is more comfortable for you, but you can't move it.
Either way, you need to set some minimum specs. I'd say 1920x1080 screen (also known as full HD), 16GB RAM, SSD storage.
For buying a laptop, avoid Apple. Their reliability has gone down the drain over the last 10 years with each model having a reliability issue. (butterfly keyboards, dust ingress into screens, STORING THE BIOS IN NAND) and that's before the overpriced RAM cost. Used business laptops are a good deal and can be repaired fairly easily. If you're feeling up to it, many of them can have their RAM upgraded with only a screwdriver. For specific processors, look for Intel Core i3/i5/i7 12th gen or 13th gen or the Intel Core Ultra 5/7 for the newest parts, just check that the processor model number ends in a 'U'. This means it's not going to eat your battery in less than an hour. For AMD, look for model numbers in this format '7x40U' where the x is either an 8,6,5, or 4. These use AMD's latest technology, are more power efficient than Intel and give excellent performance.
For a desktop, don't by from a big brand. HP, Lenovo, Dell and Acer all use proprietary parts which makes fixing these machines impossible and that is only the start of the issues. Smaller builders will use off the shelf parts which can be replaced and upgraded easily. Cyberpower PC has a fairly cheap PC which should run everything even if it's a bit old and ugly here. Just remember, you need a screen, desk and chair.
Choosing a web browser is just an illusion of choice. Almost every browser is based on Chrome (included Microsoft Edge) with Safari merely being a cousin of Chrome ( Chrome's browser engine Blink is a fork of Apple's WebKit used on Safari). The only exception is Firefox which uses it's own. Firefox is pretty good, it's no slower than Chrome and has better extension integrations (no Manifest V3 shennanigans) just make sure you install uBlock Origin.
You'd pretty much be stuck with Windows 11 as an Operating System which is shite. Unless you're willing to have your phone open looking up how to bypass the Microsoft Account requirement and then spend an hour fixing Microsoft's stupid default settings, you'll have to put up with it and all it's awfulness. But there isn't any othe choice, Linux is a pain to setup unless you know what you're doing (I use Arch, I don't recommend any distro for casual use) and will likely not support any CAD programs.
Awesome, this is so helpful! I am somewhat crushed that I can’t practically escape Windows 11, that was a big goal for me.
If you go linux, I do not recommend System 76. I've had two of them and both of them were junk. My company issues linux laptops to developers. 9 out of 10 System 76 laptops failed within a year. I'm not a big fan of Dell. If you have the time and money check out Starlabs. Framework has a lot of promise as well.
If you just need a beater running Windows for browsing and writing, surprisingly, I've found HP makes very affordable, reasonably solid machines.
If you want really portable for basic web stuff. I'd suggest an iPad. Lots of VCs and CEO types I know just use iPad.
For CAD you probably want a desktop with a high end mouse and an array of large monitors at an ergonomic desk setup. You'll probably spend more on the chair and desk and workspace than on the computer.
I love linux, i would recommend it to anyone, just like i recommend people to diy their desktop…. except boomers asking advice on how to get up to date with modern tech. Op needs a prebuild from a good brand.
Thanks for understanding!
Lemmy, reddit, find groups (but even those are far from full proof) sadly the internet as a hole is now a corporate marketing suspit. Learn what you can about the core components of computing, look at spec sheets rather than reviews (reviews can be coloured by bias, the publisher may want to stay in the good graces of the manufacture or is just ill informed) although reviews can be helpful and not coloured.
Knowledge is power.
Laptops haven't gotten that much better in the past 8 years. The one I'm using right now was made in 2011. Install Debian on your 8yo laptop and you are good to go. Question is though, what do you want to do with it? CAD? You mean like for 3D printing, or something more serious? You don't need a desktop per se, but a big monitor plugged into the laptop can help.
While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think it's a great idea to recommend Linux to someone who appears to be out of his depth in terms of computers.
That’s my concern. I appreciate the hands-on aspects of Linux, but I’m not sure I want to learn it.
Distributions like Linux Mint and Ubuntu don't have much of a learning curve at all these days. If you're curious, you could install them on an USB drive and play around with it without installing.
I've been using Linux for well over a decade now, but I'm not an advanced user at all. I mostly just like it because it just works.
The library.
A library PC is not likely to let you just install whatever productivity software you want, nor is it even guaranteed to be able to run it if you could. Not to mention OP mentioned being paralyzed and there may be accessibility options with getting to a library that they'd rather avoid.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I am not physically paralyzed; there are so many details to getting a computer system that I am suffering from “analysis paralysis“!
Thanks for clarifying, I also misinterpreted!
It might be wise to edit the post to say something like “overwhelmed” or “paralyzed by the choices”.
“Where can a Boomer catch up on current computer/software technology?”
“The library” is a valid answer to where you can find information, though I doubt computer purchasing info would be that great.
“I have an eight-year-old laptop that needs replacing and I’m paralyzed.”
If I understand correctly, “paralyzed” is being used metaphorically here to describe an inability to make a purchasing decision.
However, libraries are one of the best places people with disabilities can go. They are usually set up with accessibility in mind and run by caring people.
If you doubt the purchasing info would be that great, I doubt you've been to a library with trained librarians.
Libraries and librarians are great. I agree they would likely know where to point OP for info, but I meant they probably don’t have the resources to test a wide variety of products themselves.
This isn't contributing to the conversation, but I just wanted to thank you for reiterating the part about being paralyzed. When I read the post I read it as simply a paralysis of choice due to lack of experience in the matter. I feel terrible and I should have taken the phrase more seriously. Thank you for opening my eyes to this.
No, you were right, and I wasn’t clear.
The library is where OP can find answers that aren't just product marketing, to all the above questions, including catching up on technology, and there's absolutely no reason he needs to physically be in the building to find them. However, if he's in my city, and can get to the branch, we have workstations created in partnership with Easterseals that likely have many of the accessibility technologies and tools he's used to using at home as a person who is paralyzed.