Tesla has no press office and has not rebutted the news, but Musk took to his social network to declare that "Reuters is dying," then in another post claimed that "Reuters is lying (again)."
Fucking embarrassing.
No need for press offices when you are a Musk.
100% of his issues started the exact moment he fired his publicist.
he's literally his own worst enemy. if he could just shut the fuck up, he'd make a lot more money and people might have a reasonable doubt that he's a racist chud dickwad, instead, he's just out there every day, proving it.
This is an easy test. If Reuters is lying, that means the Model 2 is still in development. Prove that Reuters is lying, Elon. you are uniquely positioned to be able to do that.
Best he can do is be an insufferable jackass.
Shouldn't be a big deal: Why would anyone still buy a Tesla at this point? If someone is going to buy a car they probably don't want something with garbage build quality and shitty support.
Those Volvos are looking kinda good though...
There's just so many better options than Tesla these days.
Such as…?
Hyundai seems to be the top choice right now. They have the best combination of value, features, technology and reliability.
The Ioniq 5 is, at least where I live in Canada, is on a perpetual waitlist (except for the base 2wd model nobody wants). I'm personally waiting for the Ioniq 7 to replace my rusting Outback.
What’s the cost and range for all of those options? Do they have self driving?
Rivian, Audi, BYD, Ford.. and many more. All of which I'd rather own
Given the range of vehicles here, you’re clearly just reading articles rather than looking. From the perspective of US…
Rivian is quite promising but only has two models more competing with Model X, and they’re more expensive than Tesla and haven’t gone through the scaling process Tesla dealt with for Model 3. The long term Investment from Amazon is a huge deal for their future, otherwise I would never have considered them for lasting. Here’s hoping for their new models in a couple years that they promise will be competitive with model 3/y. Well see
Audi has some excellent high end vehicles, more competing against Model S, but slower and more expensive. Last I looked, huge lead time since they’re not made in us and aren’t shipped in quantity
Ford is just starting out, featuring their F-150 Lightning, but only selling high end models with huge dealer markup, and are cutting way back. There’s not really a Tesla they compete against, since Cybertruck would appeal to a different demographic. Even if I wanted a pickup, I wouldn’t want to deal with that nor could afford it
BYD sure looks intriguing for cheap EVs if their pricing is sustainable, but will not be available in US anytime soon. There is not yet any Tesla model these would compete with, but several manufacturers have announced cheap EVs in a couple years and BYD will take at least that long to establish themselves in Mexico in the hope of getting around protectionism, so it might be part of a flood
For EVs available now in the US, Teslas are frequently the less expensive option with the best features and quality. However admittedly there are so few models, from any manufacturer, that it’s hard to see much direct competition
I literally currently own one of the EVs I listed (and also have driven a Model S cross-country), so I have not "just been reading articles". Tesla's quality has gone down the shitter, so if that's what you're looking for there are much better options. I'm curious as to what features (other than the "self" driving that kills people) you're missing if not in a Tesla.
Also, Rivian has a truck (how does that compete with the Model X?), and Ford has more than just the truck in the EV space. Are you sure you know what you're talking about here?
Depends on what you're looking for. I had a high paying tech job (layoffs op), and I wanted a fun car that accelerates fast but also is a good daily driver. I was in the ~60k price range, so I was looking at things like the Corvette Stingray, but there are too many compromises for that car in terms of daily driving.
The Model 3 accelerates faster 0-30, and the same speed 0-60. Off the line it feels way snappier and responsive because it's electric, and the battery makes its center of gravity lower, so it's remarkably good at cornering for a sedan, being more comparable to a sports car in terms of cornering capabilities than a sedan.
Those aren't normally considerations for people trying to find a good value commuter car, so you would literally just ignore all those advantages. Yet people don't criticize Corvette owners for not choosing a Hyundai lol
On the daily driving front, Tesla wins out massively over other high performance cars in that price range. Being able to charge up at home, never going to a gas station, best in class driving automation/assistance software, simple interior with good control panel software, one pedal driving with regen breaking.
If you're in the 40k price range for a daily commuter, your criteria will be totally different, and I am not well versed enough in the normal considerations of that price tier and category to speak confidently to what's the best value. Tesla does however, at the very least, have a niche in the high performance sedan market.
Man, I love the internet.
"I did a lot of research and decided to buy a Tesla, here's an in depth writeup of that experience."
There are some people who really love their teslas. They don't have any models that fit what I want so I ignore them.
Sorry, I know this is controversial and I'll probably get down voted to hell, but I love my model Y Tesla and I think the full self driving is amazing (I didn't pay for it, there's a free trial this month). Musk is an idiot and an asshole but there's a lot more people working at Tesla that made some amazing vehicles.
Just to be clear, "Full Self Driving" is the marketing name for the product. You are instructed to keep your hands on the wheel at all times and Tesla accepts no responsibility at all if it screws up (unlike Mercedes, who takes responsibility for their level 3 autonomous driving service).
And for other people who happen to read this, the only reason Tesla may seem ahead with their technology is that they just don't care about safety. Tesla won't have a safe product until they actually accept responsibility for their product's failings.
Their infotainment system and app are pretty great compared to some other brands.
I'm currently driving a VW id5 and it's like they've never designed any kind of software interfaces at all.
Example:
the VW app can tell me the car is unlocked, but can't lock it for me.
it can't show me the VIN number, even though I had to use it to register it ( it was hidden in my user profile on the site somewhere )
I can let it pre-heat and such, but only on two schedules .
can't schedule appointments through the app
that weird sliding thingy for switching between speed limiter and cruise control is unintuitive AF
every other time I'm driving it's giving me a pop up saying "there are new updated user settings for your account". With only an ok and a cancel button. Where are they? What are they? Where can I find them? Did clicking"ok" accept them? Not a clue. When does it show this message that blocks the rest of the UI? After 1 minute of driving.
Not to hate on VW engineers but goddamnit guys. Get your shit together and hire a UX expert. Shortly drove a BMW 1 series before the VW and the infotainment was a lot more practical to use.
I really don't get why automotive electronics makers are allergic to having a proper UX team, other than no one else in the industry has one either so it's not a competitive disadvantage.
My suspicion is that it's because the shots are called by people who worked their way up doing automotive electronics. As in the microcontrollers inside of engine control units. So UX is kinda foreign.
which is hilarious because they're pushing us to touch screens when these devs all grew up on physical interfaces, you know, the ones that worked? goddamn give me switches and knobs any day over touch screens
As best I can tell, the touchscreen is added at the concept phase by folks who mostly know what's going to make people look at the car and want to buy it, several years before the car hits the market and well before the actual car electronics teams are involved.
So, yeah, car UI/UX sucks right now because we're seeing all of the things added to cars a few years ago in response to Tesla and implemented by people who think that just because they programmed a random car-focused microcontroller back in the day that this means that they understand all of the layers involved in a modern Linux or Android or Windows embedded car electronics unit including layer 8 of the OSI stack (meaning: interfacing with humans)
But, yah, dono. I don't actually have my own car. My spouse got a Mazda a bunch of years ago now and it has actually a pretty good touchscreen interface with physical controls such that if you want to dig into stuff, you can touchscreen but all of the common stuff is switches and knobs. The generation before that had way way too many buttons and it was just gag-me-with-a-spoon. The generation after that removed the touchscreen because the leadership at Mazda decided people were just not to be trusted with a touchscreen and I feel like they went a little too far in the wrong direction. Meanwhile, in airplane cockpit design, they put great pains into having you be able to navigate by touch where necessary such that all of the knobs are differently textured or shaped. And, as I said, I don't actually have my own car, but I have to say that if I did have a car, I'd want it to be designed like that.
FSD beta is level 2 which still counts as a driver assist system. That's why it's on the driver's responsibility. Level 3 means you can do other stuff while the car drives itself. If Tesla was marketin FSD beta as level 3 then by definition they would need to take responsibility when it fails. So far there's only one death linked to FSD beta so I don't quite get where the "they don't care about safety" is coming from. I'm pretty sure V12 is already a safer driver than a human. When FSD beta fails it generally means it got stuck somewhere, not that it crashed and killed the passengers.
This is the key. I've actually been saved a few times now by FSD catching something I didn't see, like some deer. I'm collecting videos of the things it does that impress me to share when my trial is over.
Same. There is a pedestrian who is still alive today because FSD saw them when I was blinded by a some asshole's lifted truck lights.
Like sure fuck Elon, but why do you think FSD is unsafe? They publish the accident rate, it's lower than the national average.
There are times where it will fuck up, I've experienced this. However there are times where it sees something I physically can't because of either blindspots or pillars in the car.
Having the car drive and you intervene is statistically safer than the national average. You could argue the inverse is better (you drive and the car intervenes), but I'd argue that system would be far worse, as you'd be relinquishing final say to the computer and we don't have a legal system setup for that, regardless of how good the software is (e.g you're still responsible as the driver).
You can call it a marketing term, but in reality it can and does successfully drive point to point with no interventions normally. The places it does fuckup are consistent fuckups (e.g bad road markings that convey the wrong thing, and you only know because you've been on that road thousands of times). It's not human, but it's far more consistent than a human, in both the ways it succeeds and fails. If you learn these patterns you can spend more time paying attention to what other drivers are doing and novel things that might be dangerous (people, animals, etc ) and less time on trivial things like mechanically staying inside of two lines or adjusting your speed. Looking in your blindspot or to the side isn't nearly as dangerous for example, so you can get more information.
The Mercedes system is limited to a few highways in that mode. It doesn't drive around town like FSD does.
Yes, Tesla's service that they call "full self driving" is like other driver assist services that you can use anywhere.
Mercedes is unique in offering completely autonomous driving in some select areas and they will take all responsibility for the car's driving.
That thing you have a free trial for just comes as standard in other cars at that price...
Sorry, I'm not aware, what car comes standard with that?
BMW
Lexus
Toyota
Cadillac
Genesis
Land Rover
Some of them are options, but none of them are subscription.
Those are brands, not specific cars, and to my knowledge BMW is the only car that offers a level 3 option. Tesla has level 2 as standard (known as autopilot).
I'm not going to spend hours researching a Lemmy post. These are the brands that offer level 2 driving features that Tesla offers.
Sooo I don't get your point. They do the same thing as Tesla does standard too?
You are misinformed. Tesla AP (highway ADAS) is standard. OP is talking about the recent FSD trial which is beyond what any other manufacturer offers as standard.
I'm really not, I looked it all up. Unless Tesla made the jump to level 3.
Judging by the amount of Teslas I encounter in traffic it seems like there's plenty of reasons for people to buy one. It's a highly desired car. This anti-Tesla/Elon attitude isn't particularly common outside social media.
It's anecdotal, but I know a couple Tesla owners and they both have bitched about the range, quality control, and bad service.
Counter anecdote: the Tesla owner I know says it's the nicest car they've ever been in.
I'd have to learn about QA/QC industry standards for an auto maker of similar size and then look at actual date about Tesla if I wanted to say something meaningful.
What kind do you have? Might be depending on when it was made or which model.
Have you had to have much service? How long have you owned it?
We just got the 2019 cyber truck, so we’re only a decade or so away from the roadster.
And we'll get the 2017 robotaxi in August!
And FSD on January 19th, 2038!
and it'll still kill pedestrians.
Wouldn't that put us a year away? Just checking your math...
Who said anything about math? This is muskrat time compression, math has no power here.
They can't make a good car at triple the price. Why would anyone buy this one?
I don’t think that’s how Tesla owners feel. 🤔 I think most are pretty happy. (Me included)
Hopefully yours doesn't have body panel gaps you can see from part way across the parking lot. A couple doctors at the surgery center I was at had Teslas, and one of them was pretty unhappy with the build quality on the one he got.
My dad is pretty unhappy with his Mercedes EQS which costs significantly more than the model S, it also had issues with loose interior trim and panel gaps. And despite the fairly high price point its still riddled with shitty plastic interior. It kind of feels like all manufacturers are rushing stuff out the door at the cost of QC.
The vast majority of people who don't read Tesla hate blogs don't give a shit about panel gaps. But overall, the early build quality issues have been improving.
What are your feelings on the racist lunatic running the company?
Personally I was shopping Tesla Model Y vs Chevy Blazer. At a glance, this seems to fall right in with what you’re saying but the reality was very different.
Tesla started off with an advantage by actually being available
even when Blazer was released, as a new model, it had much worse quality issues, very little availability, and huge markups
Tesla was a mature model, with no quality issues
Tesla was much less expensive
Tesla was rated 100 miles more range
Tesla is much more efficient
Tesla has an outstanding charging network
Tesla has a much easier purchasing process, with fewer middlemen to scam profits
Tesla software and automation is on a whole different level
The decision really wasn’t close
Hey, I'm happy you're happy. But Tesla absolutely still has quality control issues.
Regarding the sales process: in Tesla's early days, they received an exception to the requirement for needing to use dealerships. Generally this is very shady and is outright unfair towards other car manufacturers—even Rivian didn't get this same special treatment because lawmakers saw how Tesla abused it.
Tesla's growing monopoly on charging networks isn't something to be proud of, in my opinion, and neither is their proprietary charging cable. We need open standards.
Also, Tesla's mileage estimates are notoriously exaggerated. Perhaps technically you can get the claimed range if the entire trip is downhill…
why is wanting to sell direct shady? You may have reasons to think this particular situation is, but the model is not inherently shady. Meanwhile car sales from dealerships have a long standing and well deserved reputation for shadiness. Surely not all are, but the sales model encourages it. Many of us dread dealing with a dealer after experiencing shady sales practices, so are happy to try a different model and see if it will be different. Certainly this was one of the only car purchases I’ve had where I didn’t feel dirty and abused.
Tesla’s chargers are standard. Sure, they had to create their own since there was no standard at the time, but last year their cable and connector was accepted as a standard in the US and adopted by the majority of manufacturers
There is no monopoly on chargers, there is only Tesla installing more than everyone else, and making sure they work. Now that most manufacturers are adopting that standard, their vehicles are becoming welcome on Tesla’s network
while you’re right that I don’t get the range that was on the sticker for my Tesla, this is “normal”: my old Civic got 12mpg, my old Subaru got 21mpg, yet both were rated over 30. How you use it makes a huge difference
It would be better if direct sales were allowed, but unfortunately dealerships are required by law in almost all US states. The shady bit is how Tesla got one of the few exceptions and continues to be exempt despite being among the leading car manufacturers in the USA. All other leading manufacturers are required by state laws to sell their vehicles through dealerships.
Tesla's NCAS chargers only began to allow non-Teslas to use it from 2019, so this is kind of recent history in terms of car ownership and network coverage.
Also, Tesla’s mileage estimates are notoriously exaggerated.
To be honest, this is like the ones from every other car, both EV and ICE.
That hasn't been my experience, but perhaps regulations are stricter in the EU.
EU uses the WLTP method of testing range and its way more optimistic that the process we use in the USA.
I've driven 120k miles on my Tesla, and have a different observation on range and efficiency. Even with sub-optimal winter tires and roof rack rails, I can still attain rated efficiency. It does require appropriate temperatures and speeds though, more sensitive to that than ICE cars in my experience. 80k miles in a Chevy Bolt demonstrated about the same tendencies.
We are getting the standard in the form of NACS, but Tesla still owns the chargers. They could always abandon NACS and switch it up/require a costly adapter.
We are a long way from hitting any limits in the number of deployed chargers. It’s a wide open market and there’s government money to make it easier. Any company could have as many chargers now, if they chose to spend the money. Any company could have chosen to do the maintenance to keep their chargers in working order.
While Tesla’s lead in chargers is one of the reasons I chose them, I’m not sure it’s reasonable to call it a monopoly. We’re still at the beginning of the market, with huge untapped potential and room for all to grow
It's absolutely amazing to me how in this singular issue, thousands of people will be like "my experience is different from the internet's conventional wisdom" and still like 40% of the people will be like "no, that is not allowed here."
Scrapped my plans to buy a Tesla a while ago!
They can't figure out what quality assurance checks they can cut further?
The model is delayed because they haven't finished replacing the steering wheel with a touch screen.
For all the infallible saints and self-righteous pontificators in the comment section, it's okay to want Tesla to be successful and and make better cars, and also not want Elon Musk in charge of it.
Electric cars are for saving the auto industry, not the planet. End car dependency.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Tesla has abandoned plans to develop an affordable electric Model 2, according to a report in Reuters.
The news organization says it has reviewed company messages that say the affordable Model 2, which Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed would sell for $25,000 or less, has been axed.
Then, this March, Musk told Tesla workers that the Model 2 would go into production at the company's factory in Berlin.
In light of this news, that statement certainly raises eyebrows—Reuters reports that one of its three unnamed sources told it that the decision to scrap the Model 2 was made in late February.
Instead, Musk is allegedly "all in on robotaxi," Tesla's plan to create an autonomous driving system that could allow its cars to compete with Uber or Lyft without a driver in the equation.
Earlier this week, Tesla posted its worst delivery results since 2020, with an 8.5 percent drop in deliveries year over year and yet another quarter of overproduction that has left the electric carmaker with nearly 150,000 vehicles produced but unsold.
The original article contains 302 words, the summary contains 174 words. Saved 42%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Don't have compete with BYD if you don't allow them to be competition in the US.
Or, the real reason.
As the manbaby he is, and given the reason it would be named '2' (so that the lineup would be 2S3XY), someone informed him of that shirtless picture on the yacht and the incomming endless memes about him being 2S3XY for his shirt.
I can’t speak to whether this is true, but Musk did later that day announce that the Robotaxi release will be August 8th, which he’s always said is going to be on the same platform. I don’t see why they wouldn’t also make the “model 2” once they are to scale since not all people want to use / will trust robotaxi at first. But any announcements they make on this car before they can actually deliver will take sales away from their models available now.
Musk says a lot of things that aren't true
8/8 for all his Nazi followers.
Autonomous driving has always been his go-to pump when the stock price drops.
Right, everyone needs to chill out and realize this is all rumor. You shouldn’t trust any of it too much.
Musk is probably saying what they do intend to do, whether they can do it on time or not, or risk another visit from SEC
cancelling model 2 is a rumor from unknown source that may or may not be true
even if it’s true, it may mean cancelling a specific project but doesn’t mean the goal has changed
even if it’s true, it may mean focussing on robotaxi first, and not necessarily change overall goals
even if it’s true and they realized they can’t compete in that segment profitably, there may be an alternate or changed plan we don’t know about yet
Right now it’s almost more entertainment value than actually what will happen, so let’s all sit around and gossip, but not expect it to mean much.
Here’s my contribution to the rumor mill: given the cost of FSD added to existing vehicles, a robotaxi would be more expensive and higher profit. Of course they’d want to do that first. It also fits with the Tesla long term strategy of starting with high cost vehicles first, to help fund mass market vehicles later, and over-optimistic technology ambitions. You heard it here first, absolutely guaranteed to be true by this random internet user, and with no basis in reality, the plan is to use robotaxi to pay for the development and factory for Model 2
Well there goes my chance to own a Tesla.
Don't worry, you're not missing out on much.
A new one maybe, but the used ones are coming down in price pretty quickly. I've seen a few model 3s over the last few months at the $25k mark.
What is up with all these haters. My friend has a model Y for 3yrs now and never had any issues. It is a great car. Panels gaps are fine, no ratlling dash. I drove it and I loved it! If I could afford it, I would buy the new model 3.
Maybe Europe has different standards but they're great cars!
If you completely take Musk out of the equation, my issues with Tesla are:
The whole carbon credits thing
The price point is premium, but the build quality often isn't
Other companies have largely eaten their lunch, launching solid EV's that rival or better Tesla
Their reputation was built off of the end-goal of mass-producing affordable EV's, something they will now not do.
Not that I want to defend Musk, but
The whole carbon credits thing
I suppose here he just used something that was present, like many other entities
Other companies have largely eaten their lunch, launching solid EV’s that rival or better Tesla
Yes, only after Tesla show that it is possible to make a nice EV car. Do you remember all the EV cars before Tesla.
Their reputation was built off of the end-goal of mass-producing affordable EV’s, something they will now not do.
Given they started from scratch, I'd say the are not that bad
Plus what’s up with hating a company just because it’s CEO is an outspoken dickhead? He doesn’t even seem to be paying attention to Tesla anymore, so can’t we decide on a company’s products, by what the company actually does?
And I’ll agree, maybe the rest of the world has other choices, but in the US, there are good reasons Tesla dominates the EV market. You don’t have to agree, but should be able to see the reality
Tesla's image and public perception was built mostly on the salesmanship of Elon Musk the man (mainly through self-agrandising promises, like the Cyber Truck and just straightforward deceit like calling their driving assist "full self driving"), on the consumer side more so early on and on the investor side still very much so even today (hence Tesla's "Tech startup" kind of market valuation rather than an "auto maker" kind, though that seems to have started correcting).
So it absolutelly makes sense that as trust in Elon Musk the man goes down, so goes trust in his promises and favorable portrayal of his companies' and their products, and hence the massive PR around Tesla built by him is collapsing along with the public perception of him (it makes no logical sense to expect that a company controled by somebody one sees as a scam artist would impeccably honest and ethical and their products trully delivered on what's promised in their glitzy marketing materials).
Had Tesla's image not been build up almost entirelly on "Trust Elon Musk he's a visionary" you would've been right, but as it it is your "argument" comes out as one side "cake and eat it" fanboyism.
Fucking embarrassing.
No need for press offices when you are a Musk.
100% of his issues started the exact moment he fired his publicist.
he's literally his own worst enemy. if he could just shut the fuck up, he'd make a lot more money and people might have a reasonable doubt that he's a racist chud dickwad, instead, he's just out there every day, proving it.
This is an easy test. If Reuters is lying, that means the Model 2 is still in development. Prove that Reuters is lying, Elon. you are uniquely positioned to be able to do that.
Best he can do is be an insufferable jackass.
Shouldn't be a big deal: Why would anyone still buy a Tesla at this point? If someone is going to buy a car they probably don't want something with garbage build quality and shitty support.
Those Volvos are looking kinda good though...
There's just so many better options than Tesla these days.
Such as…?
Hyundai seems to be the top choice right now. They have the best combination of value, features, technology and reliability.
The Ioniq 5 is, at least where I live in Canada, is on a perpetual waitlist (except for the base 2wd model nobody wants). I'm personally waiting for the Ioniq 7 to replace my rusting Outback.
What’s the cost and range for all of those options? Do they have self driving?
Rivian, Audi, BYD, Ford.. and many more. All of which I'd rather own
Given the range of vehicles here, you’re clearly just reading articles rather than looking. From the perspective of US…
For EVs available now in the US, Teslas are frequently the less expensive option with the best features and quality. However admittedly there are so few models, from any manufacturer, that it’s hard to see much direct competition
I literally currently own one of the EVs I listed (and also have driven a Model S cross-country), so I have not "just been reading articles". Tesla's quality has gone down the shitter, so if that's what you're looking for there are much better options. I'm curious as to what features (other than the "self" driving that kills people) you're missing if not in a Tesla.
Also, Rivian has a truck (how does that compete with the Model X?), and Ford has more than just the truck in the EV space. Are you sure you know what you're talking about here?
Yes
Depends on what you're looking for. I had a high paying tech job (layoffs op), and I wanted a fun car that accelerates fast but also is a good daily driver. I was in the ~60k price range, so I was looking at things like the Corvette Stingray, but there are too many compromises for that car in terms of daily driving.
The Model 3 accelerates faster 0-30, and the same speed 0-60. Off the line it feels way snappier and responsive because it's electric, and the battery makes its center of gravity lower, so it's remarkably good at cornering for a sedan, being more comparable to a sports car in terms of cornering capabilities than a sedan.
Those aren't normally considerations for people trying to find a good value commuter car, so you would literally just ignore all those advantages. Yet people don't criticize Corvette owners for not choosing a Hyundai lol
On the daily driving front, Tesla wins out massively over other high performance cars in that price range. Being able to charge up at home, never going to a gas station, best in class driving automation/assistance software, simple interior with good control panel software, one pedal driving with regen breaking.
If you're in the 40k price range for a daily commuter, your criteria will be totally different, and I am not well versed enough in the normal considerations of that price tier and category to speak confidently to what's the best value. Tesla does however, at the very least, have a niche in the high performance sedan market.
Man, I love the internet.
"I did a lot of research and decided to buy a Tesla, here's an in depth writeup of that experience."
50% of Lemmy users: no, you are wrong.
There are some people who really love their teslas. They don't have any models that fit what I want so I ignore them.
Sorry, I know this is controversial and I'll probably get down voted to hell, but I love my model Y Tesla and I think the full self driving is amazing (I didn't pay for it, there's a free trial this month). Musk is an idiot and an asshole but there's a lot more people working at Tesla that made some amazing vehicles.
Just to be clear, "Full Self Driving" is the marketing name for the product. You are instructed to keep your hands on the wheel at all times and Tesla accepts no responsibility at all if it screws up (unlike Mercedes, who takes responsibility for their level 3 autonomous driving service).
And for other people who happen to read this, the only reason Tesla may seem ahead with their technology is that they just don't care about safety. Tesla won't have a safe product until they actually accept responsibility for their product's failings.
Their infotainment system and app are pretty great compared to some other brands.
I'm currently driving a VW id5 and it's like they've never designed any kind of software interfaces at all. Example:
Not to hate on VW engineers but goddamnit guys. Get your shit together and hire a UX expert. Shortly drove a BMW 1 series before the VW and the infotainment was a lot more practical to use.
I really don't get why automotive electronics makers are allergic to having a proper UX team, other than no one else in the industry has one either so it's not a competitive disadvantage.
My suspicion is that it's because the shots are called by people who worked their way up doing automotive electronics. As in the microcontrollers inside of engine control units. So UX is kinda foreign.
which is hilarious because they're pushing us to touch screens when these devs all grew up on physical interfaces, you know, the ones that worked? goddamn give me switches and knobs any day over touch screens
As best I can tell, the touchscreen is added at the concept phase by folks who mostly know what's going to make people look at the car and want to buy it, several years before the car hits the market and well before the actual car electronics teams are involved.
So, yeah, car UI/UX sucks right now because we're seeing all of the things added to cars a few years ago in response to Tesla and implemented by people who think that just because they programmed a random car-focused microcontroller back in the day that this means that they understand all of the layers involved in a modern Linux or Android or Windows embedded car electronics unit including layer 8 of the OSI stack (meaning: interfacing with humans)
But, yah, dono. I don't actually have my own car. My spouse got a Mazda a bunch of years ago now and it has actually a pretty good touchscreen interface with physical controls such that if you want to dig into stuff, you can touchscreen but all of the common stuff is switches and knobs. The generation before that had way way too many buttons and it was just gag-me-with-a-spoon. The generation after that removed the touchscreen because the leadership at Mazda decided people were just not to be trusted with a touchscreen and I feel like they went a little too far in the wrong direction. Meanwhile, in airplane cockpit design, they put great pains into having you be able to navigate by touch where necessary such that all of the knobs are differently textured or shaped. And, as I said, I don't actually have my own car, but I have to say that if I did have a car, I'd want it to be designed like that.
FSD beta is level 2 which still counts as a driver assist system. That's why it's on the driver's responsibility. Level 3 means you can do other stuff while the car drives itself. If Tesla was marketin FSD beta as level 3 then by definition they would need to take responsibility when it fails. So far there's only one death linked to FSD beta so I don't quite get where the "they don't care about safety" is coming from. I'm pretty sure V12 is already a safer driver than a human. When FSD beta fails it generally means it got stuck somewhere, not that it crashed and killed the passengers.
This is the key. I've actually been saved a few times now by FSD catching something I didn't see, like some deer. I'm collecting videos of the things it does that impress me to share when my trial is over.
Same. There is a pedestrian who is still alive today because FSD saw them when I was blinded by a some asshole's lifted truck lights.
Like sure fuck Elon, but why do you think FSD is unsafe? They publish the accident rate, it's lower than the national average.
There are times where it will fuck up, I've experienced this. However there are times where it sees something I physically can't because of either blindspots or pillars in the car.
Having the car drive and you intervene is statistically safer than the national average. You could argue the inverse is better (you drive and the car intervenes), but I'd argue that system would be far worse, as you'd be relinquishing final say to the computer and we don't have a legal system setup for that, regardless of how good the software is (e.g you're still responsible as the driver).
You can call it a marketing term, but in reality it can and does successfully drive point to point with no interventions normally. The places it does fuckup are consistent fuckups (e.g bad road markings that convey the wrong thing, and you only know because you've been on that road thousands of times). It's not human, but it's far more consistent than a human, in both the ways it succeeds and fails. If you learn these patterns you can spend more time paying attention to what other drivers are doing and novel things that might be dangerous (people, animals, etc ) and less time on trivial things like mechanically staying inside of two lines or adjusting your speed. Looking in your blindspot or to the side isn't nearly as dangerous for example, so you can get more information.
The Mercedes system is limited to a few highways in that mode. It doesn't drive around town like FSD does.
Yes, Tesla's service that they call "full self driving" is like other driver assist services that you can use anywhere.
Mercedes is unique in offering completely autonomous driving in some select areas and they will take all responsibility for the car's driving.
That thing you have a free trial for just comes as standard in other cars at that price...
Sorry, I'm not aware, what car comes standard with that?
BMW
Lexus
Toyota
Cadillac
Genesis
Land Rover
Some of them are options, but none of them are subscription.
Those are brands, not specific cars, and to my knowledge BMW is the only car that offers a level 3 option. Tesla has level 2 as standard (known as autopilot).
I'm not going to spend hours researching a Lemmy post. These are the brands that offer level 2 driving features that Tesla offers.
Sooo I don't get your point. They do the same thing as Tesla does standard too?
You are misinformed. Tesla AP (highway ADAS) is standard. OP is talking about the recent FSD trial which is beyond what any other manufacturer offers as standard.
I'm really not, I looked it all up. Unless Tesla made the jump to level 3.
Judging by the amount of Teslas I encounter in traffic it seems like there's plenty of reasons for people to buy one. It's a highly desired car. This anti-Tesla/Elon attitude isn't particularly common outside social media.
It's anecdotal, but I know a couple Tesla owners and they both have bitched about the range, quality control, and bad service.
Counter anecdote: the Tesla owner I know says it's the nicest car they've ever been in.
I'd have to learn about QA/QC industry standards for an auto maker of similar size and then look at actual date about Tesla if I wanted to say something meaningful.
What kind do you have? Might be depending on when it was made or which model.
Have you had to have much service? How long have you owned it?
Nah, it's coming right after the 2020 roadster
We just got the 2019 cyber truck, so we’re only a decade or so away from the roadster.
And we'll get the 2017 robotaxi in August!
And FSD on January 19th, 2038!
and it'll still kill pedestrians.
Wouldn't that put us a year away? Just checking your math...
Who said anything about math? This is muskrat time compression, math has no power here.
They can't make a good car at triple the price. Why would anyone buy this one?
I don’t think that’s how Tesla owners feel. 🤔 I think most are pretty happy. (Me included)
Hopefully yours doesn't have body panel gaps you can see from part way across the parking lot. A couple doctors at the surgery center I was at had Teslas, and one of them was pretty unhappy with the build quality on the one he got.
My dad is pretty unhappy with his Mercedes EQS which costs significantly more than the model S, it also had issues with loose interior trim and panel gaps. And despite the fairly high price point its still riddled with shitty plastic interior. It kind of feels like all manufacturers are rushing stuff out the door at the cost of QC.
The vast majority of people who don't read Tesla hate blogs don't give a shit about panel gaps. But overall, the early build quality issues have been improving.
What are your feelings on the racist lunatic running the company?
Personally I was shopping Tesla Model Y vs Chevy Blazer. At a glance, this seems to fall right in with what you’re saying but the reality was very different.
The decision really wasn’t close
Hey, I'm happy you're happy. But Tesla absolutely still has quality control issues.
Regarding the sales process: in Tesla's early days, they received an exception to the requirement for needing to use dealerships. Generally this is very shady and is outright unfair towards other car manufacturers—even Rivian didn't get this same special treatment because lawmakers saw how Tesla abused it.
Tesla's growing monopoly on charging networks isn't something to be proud of, in my opinion, and neither is their proprietary charging cable. We need open standards.
Also, Tesla's mileage estimates are notoriously exaggerated. Perhaps technically you can get the claimed range if the entire trip is downhill…
It would be better if direct sales were allowed, but unfortunately dealerships are required by law in almost all US states. The shady bit is how Tesla got one of the few exceptions and continues to be exempt despite being among the leading car manufacturers in the USA. All other leading manufacturers are required by state laws to sell their vehicles through dealerships.
Tesla's NCAS chargers only began to allow non-Teslas to use it from 2019, so this is kind of recent history in terms of car ownership and network coverage.
To be honest, this is like the ones from every other car, both EV and ICE.
That hasn't been my experience, but perhaps regulations are stricter in the EU.
EU uses the WLTP method of testing range and its way more optimistic that the process we use in the USA.
I've driven 120k miles on my Tesla, and have a different observation on range and efficiency. Even with sub-optimal winter tires and roof rack rails, I can still attain rated efficiency. It does require appropriate temperatures and speeds though, more sensitive to that than ICE cars in my experience. 80k miles in a Chevy Bolt demonstrated about the same tendencies.
We are getting the standard in the form of NACS, but Tesla still owns the chargers. They could always abandon NACS and switch it up/require a costly adapter.
We are a long way from hitting any limits in the number of deployed chargers. It’s a wide open market and there’s government money to make it easier. Any company could have as many chargers now, if they chose to spend the money. Any company could have chosen to do the maintenance to keep their chargers in working order.
While Tesla’s lead in chargers is one of the reasons I chose them, I’m not sure it’s reasonable to call it a monopoly. We’re still at the beginning of the market, with huge untapped potential and room for all to grow
It's absolutely amazing to me how in this singular issue, thousands of people will be like "my experience is different from the internet's conventional wisdom" and still like 40% of the people will be like "no, that is not allowed here."
Scrapped my plans to buy a Tesla a while ago!
They can't figure out what quality assurance checks they can cut further?
The model is delayed because they haven't finished replacing the steering wheel with a touch screen.
For all the infallible saints and self-righteous pontificators in the comment section, it's okay to want Tesla to be successful and and make better cars, and also not want Elon Musk in charge of it.
Electric cars are for saving the auto industry, not the planet. End car dependency.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Tesla has abandoned plans to develop an affordable electric Model 2, according to a report in Reuters.
The news organization says it has reviewed company messages that say the affordable Model 2, which Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed would sell for $25,000 or less, has been axed.
Then, this March, Musk told Tesla workers that the Model 2 would go into production at the company's factory in Berlin.
In light of this news, that statement certainly raises eyebrows—Reuters reports that one of its three unnamed sources told it that the decision to scrap the Model 2 was made in late February.
Instead, Musk is allegedly "all in on robotaxi," Tesla's plan to create an autonomous driving system that could allow its cars to compete with Uber or Lyft without a driver in the equation.
Earlier this week, Tesla posted its worst delivery results since 2020, with an 8.5 percent drop in deliveries year over year and yet another quarter of overproduction that has left the electric carmaker with nearly 150,000 vehicles produced but unsold.
The original article contains 302 words, the summary contains 174 words. Saved 42%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Don't have compete with BYD if you don't allow them to be competition in the US.
Or, the real reason.
As the manbaby he is, and given the reason it would be named '2' (so that the lineup would be 2S3XY), someone informed him of that shirtless picture on the yacht and the incomming endless memes about him being 2S3XY for his shirt.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/03/24/tesla-angled-s-e-x-model-line-up/99587238/
I can’t speak to whether this is true, but Musk did later that day announce that the Robotaxi release will be August 8th, which he’s always said is going to be on the same platform. I don’t see why they wouldn’t also make the “model 2” once they are to scale since not all people want to use / will trust robotaxi at first. But any announcements they make on this car before they can actually deliver will take sales away from their models available now.
Musk says a lot of things that aren't true
8/8 for all his Nazi followers.
Autonomous driving has always been his go-to pump when the stock price drops.
Right, everyone needs to chill out and realize this is all rumor. You shouldn’t trust any of it too much.
Right now it’s almost more entertainment value than actually what will happen, so let’s all sit around and gossip, but not expect it to mean much.
Here’s my contribution to the rumor mill: given the cost of FSD added to existing vehicles, a robotaxi would be more expensive and higher profit. Of course they’d want to do that first. It also fits with the Tesla long term strategy of starting with high cost vehicles first, to help fund mass market vehicles later, and over-optimistic technology ambitions. You heard it here first, absolutely guaranteed to be true by this random internet user, and with no basis in reality, the plan is to use robotaxi to pay for the development and factory for Model 2
Well there goes my chance to own a Tesla.
Don't worry, you're not missing out on much.
A new one maybe, but the used ones are coming down in price pretty quickly. I've seen a few model 3s over the last few months at the $25k mark.
What is up with all these haters. My friend has a model Y for 3yrs now and never had any issues. It is a great car. Panels gaps are fine, no ratlling dash. I drove it and I loved it! If I could afford it, I would buy the new model 3.
Maybe Europe has different standards but they're great cars!
If you completely take Musk out of the equation, my issues with Tesla are:
Not that I want to defend Musk, but
I suppose here he just used something that was present, like many other entities
Yes, only after Tesla show that it is possible to make a nice EV car. Do you remember all the EV cars before Tesla.
Given they started from scratch, I'd say the are not that bad
Plus what’s up with hating a company just because it’s CEO is an outspoken dickhead? He doesn’t even seem to be paying attention to Tesla anymore, so can’t we decide on a company’s products, by what the company actually does?
And I’ll agree, maybe the rest of the world has other choices, but in the US, there are good reasons Tesla dominates the EV market. You don’t have to agree, but should be able to see the reality
Tesla's image and public perception was built mostly on the salesmanship of Elon Musk the man (mainly through self-agrandising promises, like the Cyber Truck and just straightforward deceit like calling their driving assist "full self driving"), on the consumer side more so early on and on the investor side still very much so even today (hence Tesla's "Tech startup" kind of market valuation rather than an "auto maker" kind, though that seems to have started correcting).
So it absolutelly makes sense that as trust in Elon Musk the man goes down, so goes trust in his promises and favorable portrayal of his companies' and their products, and hence the massive PR around Tesla built by him is collapsing along with the public perception of him (it makes no logical sense to expect that a company controled by somebody one sees as a scam artist would impeccably honest and ethical and their products trully delivered on what's promised in their glitzy marketing materials).
Had Tesla's image not been build up almost entirelly on "Trust Elon Musk he's a visionary" you would've been right, but as it it is your "argument" comes out as one side "cake and eat it" fanboyism.