"Its not racism its history" yeah, a history of racism.
"It was about states rights!" Yeah, the state's rights to own slaves.
"It's a part of our past" yeah, part of our past of being absolute monsters.
"I am still proud of my heritage" I guess you need to have your ass beat into the ground AGAIN, then.
Saving this comment because they are the perfect response to those ignorant excuses.
"I am still proud of my heritage."
Your "heritage" lasted less than five years.
Your heritage is being a traitor and enemy of the US. So I guess you can't go around yelling 'MURICA anymore.
What I find particularly interesting is that the Confederacy only existed for 4 years, meaning to run around with an Obama flag would more historically relevant than this shit.
I also like how people do it in Northern states. I live in Indiana and I see the Stars and Bars all the time. Sometimes with the Indiana state flag. The fools don't even know what side we were on.
It's all over in WV. The state that seceded from the Confederacy. And then when confronted they say it's their heritage.
Mother fucker, what heritage?
Racism. that's it. 'Heritage' is code for racism and 'family values' is code for heterosexism
They're proud of more things than just racism. Like poverty
It's a good thing they are great at being sneaky, otherwise we wouldn't be able to figure it out almost instantaneously...
I've been in fucking college longer than a whole ass country existed LMAO
What I find particularly interesting is that the Confederacy only existed for 4 years, meaning to run around with an Obama flag would more historically relevant than this shit.
“Historically relevant” or “historically significant” is really tricky thing to judge sometimes. While Obama’s 2 terms as president meant he was in charge for 8 years vs the Confederacy’s 4, I believe the Confederacy and the US Civil War they caused was more historically relevant than Obama’s 8 years as president.
There’s a whole lot of nasty from the war and immediate fall out we’re seeing feeling today.
one could argue that the prelude to the civil war started before independence, since the Quakers were anti-slavery. even disregarding that, fighting was occuring over slavery for decades prior to the formation of the Confederacy - the famous bit at the tail end of that, "bleeding Kansas", occured in the early 1850s.
a mere 4 or 8 year length of time is largely inconsequential.
one could argue that the prelude to the civil war started before independence, since the Quakers were anti-slavery. even disregarding that, fighting was occuring over slavery for decades prior to the formation of the Confederacy - the famous bit at the tail end of that, "bleeding Kansas", occured in the early 1850s.
a mere 4 or 8 year length of time is largely inconsequential.
The US Civil War is more significant than just the penultimate legal question on slavery. It also set the tone for politics for the next 50 years, completely destroyed the population and economy of nearly half the country, and paved the road for some of the most important Amendments to the US Constitution.
Plus the advances in war time technologies, tactics, and medicine weren’t too shabby.
I imagine it's much like the pride flag, where people make it their whole personality. I fully expect people to be brandishing some form of pride flag in 150 years, though it will probably look even more silly by then.
It's amusing to me listening to an American talking about people making flags their personality.
This is coming from a country where you can get an american flag on anything you want.
I moved to the US and it still weirds me out how many flags i see in a day
flying a flag is like passive support for/resistance against something.
it's easy virtue signaling, basically
This is coming from a country where you can get an american flag on anything you want.
Which, incidentally, is a violation of U.S. flag code. So much for patriotism.
Idk if the Pride flag, something that inherently describes a large part of a person's identity and is a sign of community, is equatable to the Confederate flag.
It is part of no one's identity; no one alive was part of the confederacy. No one alive has parents in the confederacy. It is a sign of the Confederate States and their secession from the US over owning slaves; it is a sign of racism.
It has been a little sad watching the evolution of the Pride flag, because the adoption of the rainbow symbol was meant to show that everyone was included. Now the newest versions just show how eager we are to subdivide ourselves, which has made it easier for the conservatives to roll back on the gains the movement made in the 00's.
I am facinated by what you call subdivison i see as recognition. Thats a very interesting coin were looking at.
I would say to avoid separation and alienation within the community we all have to work for intersectionality and communal empathy.
I am facinated by what you call subdivison i see as recognition. Thats a very interesting coin were looking at.
I was active in politicking for gay rights back in the 00's, and back then the word "gay" was synonymous with "queer". It meant everyone. The rainbow flag was the same way. Now the average person has no way of understanding the terminology or symbolism various factions use within the broader queer community, and it's made it easier to alienate certain populations (trans people being the very visible example right now). There's simply no unity because the various communities have willfully subdivided.
I'm not an activist anymore (mental illness makes it too hard) but the queer community really, really needs to unite and recognize the greater threat of resurgent fascism, in my opinion. That's harder to do when people have subdivided themselves and the various factions can't come together to fight the real enemy.
I'll take "Tell me you were never actually an ally without telling me you were never an ally" for $100 Alex.
The flag was updated to include more folks who are oppressed as a minority. Anyone who is a target due to things like their sexuality, gender, disabilities, skin color, or other inherent traits belongs in it. The whole point is to band together because the groups in it are small and vulnerable. The fact that the updated flag bothers you and you're willing to complain about it really speaks volumes to how much and why it matters to you.
I’ll take “Tell me you were never actually an ally without telling me you were never an ally” for $100 Alex.
This gatekeeping is exactly what they're lamenting. Alienating people who have been fighting for equal rights for decades because they're not pure enough is why the culture is turning.
They said they supported gays and are saying the new flag is divisive, despite it being more inclusive. The rainbow flag was not really representative for everyone, as it was predominately associated with gay men and lesbians, and was updated to try and include others in the LGBTQIA+ community that weren't getting enough (or any!) representation. I'm calling out their signalling that they are an ally while they also claim that one of the problems with the community is that it is somehow more divisive, despite being more accepting and broader than ever before.
I find that being gatekept would mean that I don't allow someone to be part of the community, and in a way I did do that. I'll admit that part of my response was rude and probably uncalled for. This whole comment section is full of apologists for the confederate flag, and in my first reading I might have taken their intent more harshly than they meant. I'm sorry about that. I did not mean to gatekeep and in the future I'll be more careful to not rebuke those who seem to mean well, even if I am hurt or concerned by what they said.
I still feel that focusing on the updated flag and how it may be seen as divisive is not very productive or helpful to the overall community, and overall the LGBTQIA+ community fights fascism at every turn. Having these tough conversations about marginalized groups and how they can be better represented is what helped spur the community to adopt the updated flags, regardless of opinions on it. Because, at the end of the day, it is a bunch of smaller groups banding together to protect one another. Flying the rainbow flag, progress, or updated progress w/ intersex are all valid ways to show support and raise awareness. I feel that way even in regards to flags representing smaller subsets, such as the lesbian, trans, or asexual flags.
Things change. Part of being progressive is accepting that. When politicking for said rights in the 00s, people weren't trying to take away anyone's rights, we were trying to grant them, such as letting LGBT people be in the military and get married to those of the same gender. The fight now is to keep those and other rights. And if that includes recognition and inclusion to help normalize things, good. It should. Stop being a dinosaur.
When the South rises again, maybe we should just let them secede.
They can secede, just leave the land behind when they do so. Enjoy the international waters.
Even the reddest counties in the reddest states vote 10% blue. Most red states have strong pockets of blue in cities. (Nashville, Charleston, pretty much all of south Florida). Many southern states are purple or even blue! Georgia has two blue senators and a governor! Virginia has two blue senators and a red governor. North Carolina is up there too.
I'm very afraid for those people if the fascist lunatics get more control. I know you are sort of joking that we can't just abandon them to that fate.
Also selfishly: do we really want the Christian Taliban to create an Afghanistan with y'all Quida next door to us? That wouldn't end well.
Georgia does not have a blue governor.
At this point, seeking political asylum in an open air interment camp doesn’t seem a bad dream. It’s ridiculous here.
I'd love to see their declarations for seceding this time. Last time it was universally about slavery, I'm sure this time it will be wokeness or cheeks absent from Trump's rear
One problem: You will create a country with third world mentality on religion, but with first world weapons. They'll immediately start a holy war against the north, and if they succeed, the rest of the world.
They can't take our military equipment with them. Let them try to use their AR-15s against our drones and nukes.
I would like to not have this in my feed
it's a shitposting sub. you're here of your own volition.
Technically it'll show up in the All list, which is how I found it.
I found it hilarious, though.
Why?
Unsub. e z
It wasn't even used as the actual flag of the Confederacy. This version of the flag is the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which has sort of just come to represent the whole Confederacy now. The actual flag that was used by the Confederacy actually had quite a bit more white on it, which in the eyes of some at the time understood it to represent the "White race" (from Wikipedia):
On April 23, 1863, the Savannah Morning News editor William Tappan Thompson, with assistance from William Ross Postell, a Confederate blockade runner, published an editorial championing a design featuring the battle flag on a white background he referred to later as "The White Man's Flag," a name which never caught on. In explaining the white background of his design, Thompson wrote, "As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause."
Their flag actually went through three versions between 1861–1865 (each with multiple variations), so they really didn't have their shit together over the course of those 4 years even.
Pride is a sin and often the only people taking pride in a flag have done nothing to earn any pride.
It's ok, champ. Not everyone has supportive parents.
The only thing I know is that this is the Dukes of Hazzard flag. Loved that movie!
Loved that movie!
Are you aware that there was a TV show in the early 80s?
Ugh, the fact that I remember watching it when I was a kid is going to seriously date me.
I think my parents might have watched it as kids!
Y'all stfu already God damnit. And stay the fuck off my lawn.
I'm genX actually, I don't give a fuck about the lawn ;)
We listened to it on the AM radio and that's the way we liked it.
My ancestors died fighting for the Union, but I have to admit a tiny bit of me has a soft spot for that flag only because I liked the Dukes of Hazzard when I was little.
Meh, The union, Confederates, they are the same utter shit in my non American eyes.
The Union is no saint, specially when it comes to racist shit.
"Its not racism its history" yeah, a history of racism.
"It was about states rights!" Yeah, the state's rights to own slaves.
"It's a part of our past" yeah, part of our past of being absolute monsters.
"I am still proud of my heritage" I guess you need to have your ass beat into the ground AGAIN, then.
Saving this comment because they are the perfect response to those ignorant excuses.
"I am still proud of my heritage."
Your "heritage" lasted less than five years.
Your heritage is being a traitor and enemy of the US. So I guess you can't go around yelling 'MURICA anymore.
What I find particularly interesting is that the Confederacy only existed for 4 years, meaning to run around with an Obama flag would more historically relevant than this shit.
I also like how people do it in Northern states. I live in Indiana and I see the Stars and Bars all the time. Sometimes with the Indiana state flag. The fools don't even know what side we were on.
It's all over in WV. The state that seceded from the Confederacy. And then when confronted they say it's their heritage.
Mother fucker, what heritage?
Racism. that's it. 'Heritage' is code for racism and 'family values' is code for heterosexism
They're proud of more things than just racism. Like poverty
It's a good thing they are great at being sneaky, otherwise we wouldn't be able to figure it out almost instantaneously...
Heritage of power
What do you mean?
White
Dude, they have people flying them in Canada. I don't think there's much common sense in the folks who publicly display it.
I once asked a guy why he would fly a Confederate flag in Canada and he said, “If you have to ask you wouldn’t understand.”
I guess he was right. I don’t understand.
It's a rebellious symbol. If talking heads said the flag of Kazakhstan was evil and we should all hate anyone who has one, it would have been that.
Bruh ive seen this shit in CANADA!!!!! like my guy, we beat them well before the damn civil war, we were event THERE!!!!
Some idiots even use it in Europe and Australia,
I thought that was a nickname for the regular flag. TIL
"Old Glory"
So THAT'S why you have to throw it out the minute it gets damaged! To avoid Glory holes!
I see it on Ohio too. Go ask someone from the south if Ohio has Yankees or not
I've been in fucking college longer than a whole ass country existed LMAO
“Historically relevant” or “historically significant” is really tricky thing to judge sometimes. While Obama’s 2 terms as president meant he was in charge for 8 years vs the Confederacy’s 4, I believe the Confederacy and the US Civil War they caused was more historically relevant than Obama’s 8 years as president.
There’s a whole lot of nasty from the war and immediate fall out we’re seeing feeling today.
one could argue that the prelude to the civil war started before independence, since the Quakers were anti-slavery. even disregarding that, fighting was occuring over slavery for decades prior to the formation of the Confederacy - the famous bit at the tail end of that, "bleeding Kansas", occured in the early 1850s.
a mere 4 or 8 year length of time is largely inconsequential.
The US Civil War is more significant than just the penultimate legal question on slavery. It also set the tone for politics for the next 50 years, completely destroyed the population and economy of nearly half the country, and paved the road for some of the most important Amendments to the US Constitution.
Plus the advances in war time technologies, tactics, and medicine weren’t too shabby.
I imagine it's much like the pride flag, where people make it their whole personality. I fully expect people to be brandishing some form of pride flag in 150 years, though it will probably look even more silly by then.
It's amusing to me listening to an American talking about people making flags their personality.
This is coming from a country where you can get an american flag on anything you want.
I moved to the US and it still weirds me out how many flags i see in a day
flying a flag is like passive support for/resistance against something.
it's easy virtue signaling, basically
Which, incidentally, is a violation of U.S. flag code. So much for patriotism.
Idk if the Pride flag, something that inherently describes a large part of a person's identity and is a sign of community, is equatable to the Confederate flag.
It is part of no one's identity; no one alive was part of the confederacy. No one alive has parents in the confederacy. It is a sign of the Confederate States and their secession from the US over owning slaves; it is a sign of racism.
It has been a little sad watching the evolution of the Pride flag, because the adoption of the rainbow symbol was meant to show that everyone was included. Now the newest versions just show how eager we are to subdivide ourselves, which has made it easier for the conservatives to roll back on the gains the movement made in the 00's.
I am facinated by what you call subdivison i see as recognition. Thats a very interesting coin were looking at.
I would say to avoid separation and alienation within the community we all have to work for intersectionality and communal empathy.
I was active in politicking for gay rights back in the 00's, and back then the word "gay" was synonymous with "queer". It meant everyone. The rainbow flag was the same way. Now the average person has no way of understanding the terminology or symbolism various factions use within the broader queer community, and it's made it easier to alienate certain populations (trans people being the very visible example right now). There's simply no unity because the various communities have willfully subdivided.
I'm not an activist anymore (mental illness makes it too hard) but the queer community really, really needs to unite and recognize the greater threat of resurgent fascism, in my opinion. That's harder to do when people have subdivided themselves and the various factions can't come together to fight the real enemy.
I'll take "Tell me you were never actually an ally without telling me you were never an ally" for $100 Alex.
The flag was updated to include more folks who are oppressed as a minority. Anyone who is a target due to things like their sexuality, gender, disabilities, skin color, or other inherent traits belongs in it. The whole point is to band together because the groups in it are small and vulnerable. The fact that the updated flag bothers you and you're willing to complain about it really speaks volumes to how much and why it matters to you.
This gatekeeping is exactly what they're lamenting. Alienating people who have been fighting for equal rights for decades because they're not pure enough is why the culture is turning.
They said they supported gays and are saying the new flag is divisive, despite it being more inclusive. The rainbow flag was not really representative for everyone, as it was predominately associated with gay men and lesbians, and was updated to try and include others in the LGBTQIA+ community that weren't getting enough (or any!) representation. I'm calling out their signalling that they are an ally while they also claim that one of the problems with the community is that it is somehow more divisive, despite being more accepting and broader than ever before.
I find that being gatekept would mean that I don't allow someone to be part of the community, and in a way I did do that. I'll admit that part of my response was rude and probably uncalled for. This whole comment section is full of apologists for the confederate flag, and in my first reading I might have taken their intent more harshly than they meant. I'm sorry about that. I did not mean to gatekeep and in the future I'll be more careful to not rebuke those who seem to mean well, even if I am hurt or concerned by what they said.
I still feel that focusing on the updated flag and how it may be seen as divisive is not very productive or helpful to the overall community, and overall the LGBTQIA+ community fights fascism at every turn. Having these tough conversations about marginalized groups and how they can be better represented is what helped spur the community to adopt the updated flags, regardless of opinions on it. Because, at the end of the day, it is a bunch of smaller groups banding together to protect one another. Flying the rainbow flag, progress, or updated progress w/ intersex are all valid ways to show support and raise awareness. I feel that way even in regards to flags representing smaller subsets, such as the lesbian, trans, or asexual flags.
Things change. Part of being progressive is accepting that. When politicking for said rights in the 00s, people weren't trying to take away anyone's rights, we were trying to grant them, such as letting LGBT people be in the military and get married to those of the same gender. The fight now is to keep those and other rights. And if that includes recognition and inclusion to help normalize things, good. It should. Stop being a dinosaur.
100% agree with you on this.
There’s a reason the same people that fly the confederate flag fly a Trump flag. They like things that last a few years and lose
What did they lose, really? Besides a war, their generals, their free labor, and the value of their money?
Pride flag, If your family tree is a circle.
Evolutionary cul-de-sac.
30 people are sore loosers 🤣
When the South rises again, maybe we should just let them secede.
They can secede, just leave the land behind when they do so. Enjoy the international waters.
Even the reddest counties in the reddest states vote 10% blue. Most red states have strong pockets of blue in cities. (Nashville, Charleston, pretty much all of south Florida). Many southern states are purple or even blue! Georgia has two blue senators and a governor! Virginia has two blue senators and a red governor. North Carolina is up there too.
I'm very afraid for those people if the fascist lunatics get more control. I know you are sort of joking that we can't just abandon them to that fate.
Also selfishly: do we really want the Christian Taliban to create an Afghanistan with y'all Quida next door to us? That wouldn't end well.
Georgia does not have a blue governor.
At this point, seeking political asylum in an open air interment camp doesn’t seem a bad dream. It’s ridiculous here.
I'd love to see their declarations for seceding this time. Last time it was universally about slavery, I'm sure this time it will be wokeness or cheeks absent from Trump's rear
One problem: You will create a country with third world mentality on religion, but with first world weapons. They'll immediately start a holy war against the north, and if they succeed, the rest of the world.
They can't take our military equipment with them. Let them try to use their AR-15s against our drones and nukes.
I would like to not have this in my feed
it's a shitposting sub. you're here of your own volition.
Technically it'll show up in the
Alllist, which is how I found it.I found it hilarious, though.
Why?
Unsub. e z
It wasn't even used as the actual flag of the Confederacy. This version of the flag is the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which has sort of just come to represent the whole Confederacy now. The actual flag that was used by the Confederacy actually had quite a bit more white on it, which in the eyes of some at the time understood it to represent the "White race" (from Wikipedia):
Their flag actually went through three versions between 1861–1865 (each with multiple variations), so they really didn't have their shit together over the course of those 4 years even.
Shout-out to Vexillologycirclejerk@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz as this post would be quite suited for their flag shit posting.
I see something I wanna use to wipe my ass.
Pride is a sin and often the only people taking pride in a flag have done nothing to earn any pride.
It's ok, champ. Not everyone has supportive parents.
The only thing I know is that this is the Dukes of Hazzard flag. Loved that movie!
Are you aware that there was a TV show in the early 80s?
Ugh, the fact that I remember watching it when I was a kid is going to seriously date me.
I think my parents might have watched it as kids!
Y'all stfu already God damnit. And stay the fuck off my lawn.
I'm genX actually, I don't give a fuck about the lawn ;)
We listened to it on the AM radio and that's the way we liked it.
My ancestors died fighting for the Union, but I have to admit a tiny bit of me has a soft spot for that flag only because I liked the Dukes of Hazzard when I was little.
Meh, The union, Confederates, they are the same utter shit in my non American eyes.
The Union is no saint, specially when it comes to racist shit.
Fuck the US, all my homies hate the US.
I say flag whatever flag makes you proud.
A slavery flag though?