Is it possible for a human being to attain lasting happiness (without drugs)?
The more I think about it, it seems that long-term happiness is something many people spend their lives seeking OR they believe it’s something they used to have and lost.
That makes me wonder if we are truly ever happy? Or if it’s something that is always just out of reach (in the future or in the past).
Let’s not aspire to happiness. Your brain is not wired to be happy all the time. Everyone will always come back down to baseline it’s programmed into our biology/psychology. Maybe it’s better to be content and accept the things you already have
Some of you say, “Joy is greater than sorrow,” and others say, “Nay, sorrow is the greater.” But I say unto you, they are inseparable. Together they come, and when one sits alone with you at your board, remember that the other is asleep upon your bed.
Verily you are suspended like scales between your sorrow and your joy. Only when you are empty are you at standstill and balanced.
Thanks for this. Went and read the whole thing and it's beautiful!
This is a really cool quote, thanks for sharing it!
This is a new found perspective I've been trying to act on and it keeps me "happy" in the sense of being content. SSRIs helped me come out of a dark place and find that baseline and appreciate that what I have is just fine. I've been off them for a good 4-5 months now and have been able to keep acting on this perspective. Reducing the amount I drink and smoke has also really helped me stay at baseline. I was not consuming these things with my best interest in mind. I am better off only having these things in my home for special events.
I've got my little place to live, my cat, my little hobbies, and I go on my daily little walk. That's just fine and enough to be content. I'm comfortable and don't need much more. I don't really need to search for bliss all the time. I'll save that for a concert, food festival, hanging out with good friends, playing a new game, etc.
Well then is it better to say that we should redefine what happiness means? Or is it that happiness means something different to each individual? Sometimes I feel like what I define as happy is really just being content to someone else. This is more of a philosophical question, or maybe more specifically a metaphysical question. What is happiness?
I think it's easier without drugs and alcohol enforcing a chemical come down that's very hard to avoid.
Does lasting mean perpetual and without breaks, or does it mean a default happy state that can of course be interrupted by life events but that will naturally revert to a default state of happiness?
Happiness simply requires you to be thankful for what you have. Not just physical objects but relationships, past times, opportunities, ideas and space to be yourself.
Most of us forget how short life is.
Exactly. I'm not a psychologist or biologist but from what I read, while we are alive, our bodies tend towards homeostasis, a chemically balanced state. Simply, you cannot be in a high-dopamine "happy" state all the time without going back to a neutral or down state afterwards. Even without drugs, highs are usually followed by lows. Not trying to be happy at all times but accepting that sometimes, there are hardships, will help you having a fullfilled and content life.
Anyway, that homeostasis does not mean that everyone is equally happy/unhappy on average. On the one side there are people with depression and on the other side people whose lives have many happy moments. What helps for me is connecting with friends and family, going into nature and seeing animals, doing exercise and having off-screen time, mindfullness and generally having some work-life balance. Which I admit not everyone can afford and I am privileged to have. Doing or having those things helps me having a happier and more fullfilled life, but sometimes life still sucks, there is no happy-all-the-time.
Great comment
I'm happy. Family healthy, relationships are great. I love my job, I make good money, enjoy the work and people. I'm buying my first house soon though so perhaps may add some stress but I tend not to worry about worrying.
Sometimes I feel like a golden retriever, just happy to be around.
God bless you dude. I'm happy for you. I'll take some happiness from your post.
Same. But it took a long time. Once I realized we humans are hardwired with social and emotional connections being primary, my life got way better. There is no comparison to feeling connected — way better than chasing prestige, status, or knowledge.
Similar position. I also realize how lucky I've been in life in comparison to the less fortunate.
Same, sometimes (usually while driving for some reason) I just get overwhelmed with happiness at how well my life is going. Yeah it's not perfect, and obviously I was incredibly lucky to get where I am, but it's more than enough for me to be truly content.
There are no final states in life. There’s no “ever after”. Real-life stories do not end.
You can be truly happy, but it will end.
Remind me of a South Park end of episode moral, said by Butters this time :
Goth Kid : I guess you can join up with us if you want.
Goth Kid 2 : Yeah. We're gonna go to the graveyard and write poems about death and how pointless life is.
Butters : Uh, uhm no thanks. I love life.
Stan : Huh? But you just got dumped.
Butters : Well yeah, and I'm sad, but at the same time I'm really happy that something could make me feel that sad. It's like, it makes me feel alive, you know? It makes me feel human. And the only way I could feel this sad now is if I felt somethin' really good before. So I have to take the bad with the good, so I guess what I'm feelin' is like a, beautiful sadness. I guess that sounds stupid.
Goth Kid 2 : Yeah.
Stan : No. No, Butters, that doesn't sound stupid at all.
Butters : Well, thanks for offering to let me in your clique, guys, but, to be honest, I'd rather be a crying little pussy than a faggy Goth kid.
We have ups and downs and we need both if we seek happiness.
"You cannot fetch happy. Happy happens."
-Dog of Wisdom
Happiness is a choice. You can choose to see only the negative or choose to find joy and contentment in the little things you have and what you have accomplished.
There are people who live in poverty that have true happiness. There are people who are terminally I’ll who are truly happy.
Most importantly, it’s ok to seek help if you are unhappy. It’s much easier to be happy when you don’t try to take everything on by yourself.
In many cases, I agree, but this comment definitely isn't true for those with mental illness etc. I would argue it's a matter of perspective, and not all aspects of perspective can be changed on a whim.
I 100% agree with you, that’s kind of what I was getting at by suggesting to seek help
Life is a tragedy when looked at a whole. All is given and taken away. Appreciate the little moments you get in a day. Attempt not to let the dread of reality weigh on you too much. I don't remember being anxious or worried before being alive so I have concluded for myself that life after death won't exactly be worrisome either. Don't want to die but I sure as hell don't want to spend my life worried about death as that steals my time from me.
Well. Western culture tends to be goal focused. For starters, that could be something to ditch and focus making the journey more pleasant.
I would say having a goal to look and work towards can give meaning and thereby "content", not sure wether it can guarantee happiness, but waiting to be happy, or allowing oneself to be happy only once you reach the goal is a problem indeed.
That can be a double edged sword.
I can't imagine living a life where you are always happy. Would you even understand how happy you are without the contrast of unhappiness?
Happiness or contentment? The latter is likely possible. The former? There are too many ups and downs in life, too much stress, to be happy, long-term. My mother-in-law was the closest I've seen, but she still had worries over the well-being of family members, the state of the world, and then cancer. She was content, certainly -- mostly stemming from her religious views and love for everyone -- but that's not the same as happy.
By nature it is not "possible" it is normal. If your question is whatever is it possible for humans to be happy in a society designed to make you unhappy then the answer is by definition, no.
Anecdotal, but I think true happiness comes with acceptance, self reflection, and perspective. First you need to be happy with yourself, and if you aren't you need to work to improve yourself to a point where you are. Once you are accepting of yourself you can be happy with and for others. People need to stop comparing their lives to someone else's. If you truly know yourself and understand what you really want from life and what is really important to you it is much easier to be happy.
Just like with temperature, we only feel the relative difference. If the difference is sudden and strong heat, it feels extrem. Like a rockstar getting famous and playing on stage. After these changes subside we feel the stark difference between. the hangover, the withdrawal symptoms. everything feels cold after you spent some time in warm water. Happiness is like that. You can push yourself to a new high, but afterwards you feel the difference between the high and the normal. like many said already its about having a good baseline. If you push that baseline with drugs, everything normal will feel worse.
No.
Feeling "okay" is the lasting state. You cannot feel persistent goodness without any badness to compare. Constant goodness turns to "okay".
Lasting happiness? There's always going to be downs as well as ups in life. Stoicism will teach you how to handle the pitfalls in life without dwelling on them and helping you to get on in life. Buddhism will help you to understand that life is full of sorrow but that the journey is it's own reward and that joy can be found anywhere.
A perpetual state of satisfaction can be reached that's liberally peppered with happiness. Happiness is not an end goal. It's the after affect of a effortful life that invites playfulness and new experiences.
The key word here is effort. Happiness should not be the main goal. Living your values. Finding a process and journey that meets your values and challenges you slightly will bring satisfaction.
Be carful of self help books and systems. Many are designed to put you on a perpetual wheel of needing more and more books to buy and classes to take. They are money generators that will tell you they offer the golden cure. And if you didn't succeed with the system in a few months then here's part two you can buy.
I do like THE HAPPINESS LAB podcast as a starting point. There's a free Yale course too. The teaching there can get you to examine some stuff.
Be kinder to yourself but do put some challenges in your way. Happiness is not about having a placid life.
We evolved on the hustle, we were selectively bred for marginal utility.
We don't want good, we want better.
Better than yesterday, better than the next guy, whatever, don't care. Just an uptick in one way or another.
So no, you can't sustain that indefinitely. If you're making constant gains, then that saturates very quickly, and betterer becomes the new bare minimum.
Chasing that is destructive as hell, same as any addiction.
If you work out how to work the system to use losses to keep wins cheap, you may just win at life.
Yes. Can't claim I've reached it for myself yet but I know people who are happy and content with their lives.
I think our current economic system makes that very difficult for a truly good person. In general I agree with what others are saying with respect to contentment over happiness and the fact that sorrow will always have its moments. But the current way to get to a place where you have enough to be content is largely in doing things that are about making money and not filling need. Humans typically get most satisfaction from being helpful, but our current system incentivizes selfishness and greed. It's difficult for a person who isn't naturally selfish or greedy to maintain "lasting happiness" in such a system. Although drugs might make you forget about the shittyness of our current world.
The brain is a drug generator
It sounds like you're dealing with absolutes. Perfection is probably unattainable, but we can get exponentially close. Drugs or no drugs, that part would be more of a personal thing.
I'd look into Stoocism.
Eeeehhhhh Stoicism is more about not being sad than it is about being happy.
https://piped.video/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o&t=286
I think happiness is a misunderstood concept. It's something that many people take for granted when they're young, but as they get older it seems to wane and comes with a lot more caveats. Your baseline used to be happy, but now your baseline is more neutral. You spend 80% of your time being neither happy nor sad. The idea of being happy all the time is sort of a farce, and I tend to assume people who claim to be are either lying or stupid.
Happiness is more about taking a step back from your life and viewing it all in one big picture. If you like what you see, then you can consider yourself happy, even if that doesn't mean you're smiling about it right this moment.
I would say the pursuit and journey for happiness is the sweet spot. It's why artists and studios jump right back into some of the hardest processes to go through as they try new things on a new project. After finishing their movie or game, that high of achieving all of those things eventually due down and the question of what happens next settles in.
Like climbing a mountain. Sure all the enjoyment is at the top, but once you learn to enjoy the grand scheme of the whole process, there lies happiness. Anything could happen, but it doesn't quite matter because you're still inspired and driven to climb your mountain.
A lot depends on your mindset. In particular nowadays, we are constantly focused on the future. Everything is seen as a stepping stone towards something else. So naturally, happiness becomes a faraway goal: “I’ll be happy when that happens”, but as son as that is reached, a new goal appears. To be happy, you need to live in the present. Accept the limitations of it, and thrive on the rest. Not every situation allows for happiness, but most allow for at least some happiness.
I also think that humans are social animals, so happiness should be found in the connections we have with others, friends, blood family and chosen family.
Sure. Happiness is something you need to curate, and it's a state of mind. Lowered expectations can help. I don't need a huge house and expensive cars and lots of material possessions. That is just more to maintain and pay for.
If I have my health and my family and friends are reasonably healthy/happy and I have free time to spend as I please, I'm happy. I try to play as much as I work, that's the balance that works for me.
Honestly like any emotion, happiness comes and goes, it’s not something static or permanent. I know a lot of people want to achieve lifelong happiness, but I think it’s futile since emotions are always fleeting and come back around. I think what those people seek isn’t “happiness” but satisfaction with life.
Happiness is irrelevant. You do what you need to do your duty to support yourself and your family first, then your fellow man second.
If you're not even momentarily happy, why do all of this?
You are momentarily happy. But the point is it's a fleeting feeling. And if you go chasing it, you won't even have that.
Focus on doing your job, and I don't mean this in a capitalistic way but I mean be a good father, brother, son. The rest comes and goes.
There's a very old Denis Leary "joke" about it. I wouldn't normally take any kind of life advice from him, but this always stuck with me for some reason.
::: spoiler Language warning “Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette butt, or a chocolate chip cookie or a five second orgasm. You cum, you smoke the butt you eat the cookie you go to sleep wake up and go back to fucking work the next morning, THAT'S IT! End of fucking list!” :::
Not under capitalism. I believe happiness is achievable though, maybe not in the sense of "constant euphoria" though. I think a lot of people misunderstand what it is to be happy... To be healthy, glad to see another day, and fulfilled. To me, that's happiness.
What do you mean by long term happiness?
Is it a sense that everything is on the up and up, or just even keeled? Is it a belief that you are, at this moment, where you should be? Is it a retinue of loving friends and family who truly see you for the person you are and still love you? Is it a lack of worry about global or personal conditions, or the faith that those will be worked out?
A constant, unflagging upward trajectory of achievement, sociability, and unique and meaningful experience gathering is simply impossible, and drugs will not grant you more than shallow flashes in the pan in between long stretches of pain and drudgery.
You can’t face the enormity of the world and your life head on, your consciousness and awareness aren’t nearly big enough for that, so focus on the here and now and the hazy near future. Question what makes you feel happy, what experiences or people grant you value, and focus on those.
Yes. More peace and content than OMG HAPPINESS because life still has its ups and downs but overall I am content. I am not religious but reading topics in taoism and mindfulness have helped.
Yes, fulfillment, stability, and a healthy social life
Yes. Many religious people including myself feel happy. That's one method.
Others find a purpose in their life to drive toward or dedicate themselves to. Be it art, friends, family, work, learning etc.
I would suggest looking at what you want from life, and asking yourself what the first step is to achieving that. I find that I'm at my happiest when I'm keeping on track with my goals.
Christianity made me feel more pain in my life than I choose to remember. Please don't just assume religion works for everybody.
Where did I say religion works for everyone? I gave it as one example of something that worked for me and clearly works for billions of others.
I've had awful experiences with the mental health system, but I think getting triggered by someone saying therapy worked for them makes sense. Sorry to hear you suffered.
Works in deluding them. Unless you have proof that their god and their afterlife are real, they're being swindled. And you don't seem to care.
If you live in the US, your whole health care system is an antechamber of hell. But in most cases, therapy is not based in millenary bullshit, so you are more likely to get results based on reality.
Most people believe in God, so you're arguing most people are being swindled, implying they are not intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions on the existence of a higher power. That is a very pessimistic view of reality I think, especially when people such as Galileo, Darwin, and Newton were very religious themselves.
The popularity fallacy is not a good argument.
Non sequitur. Being swindled doesn't denote lack of inteligence, but a lapse in critical thinking (or the lack of it) in the particular topic of the existence of gods. Everybody is vulnerable to lapses of critical thinking, specially for those believers who are part of communities where doubt is portrayed as dangerous and the tools for critical thinking are not only not provided but discouraged.
It would be if you didn't misrepresent my position.
Galileo lived in a time where not being religious incurred risk to one's life, so mentioning him is unfair.
Again, being religious and being intelligent are mostly orthogonal propositions. Critical thinking requires exercise, though, and when unused, it can atrophy. Or be totally non-existent if never taught.
If I were to quote intelligent celebrities as "proof" that religions are true (a doubtful procedure in any case, as it's an authority fallacy), I could mention Francis Collins, director of the National Human Genome Research Institute and current science advisor for president Joe Biden. He's deeply religious. But he's not using the scientific method to reinforce his belief. And he's not less intelligent just because he's probably mistaken about the reality of his god.
This isn't a a debate. I gave someone a suggestion on how to be happier that has scientific basis showing it works in doing that. I even gave other suggestions.
I hope you can find peace in life if you're this hostile to someone bringing in something you dislike. Good day.
You expressed something in a public forum. That doesn't give you rights to remain uncontested.
Yeah, science also proves that certain drugs make you feel happy. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to use them.
Nah, stop lying. You don't care.
It's not mere dislike. Religions are mind poison, they're actively damaging for society. The US are turning into Giléad due to religious influence. Other countries suffer gravely due to religious nonsense.
You don't win people over by getting upset at them. I can only hope you find peace in your life eventually. I remember being in my militant atheist phase.
Good luck.
It's too late for that. At this point we're stuck with damage control.
How presumptuous of you to think you know what I need in my life.
What's your current phase? Stoned-to-the-gills, new-agey feel-good hippie?
Many of us would never consider that a valid, desirable or positive method.
Not religious, but if it works it works. Clearly there is joy in faith for some people.
FSVO "works", YMMV, right?
So you don't care if people finds joy in deluding themselves. Got it.