I'm part jewish, european, anti hamas, pro palestine. Why wouldn't I be allowed to show my support for Palestine? Israel is trying to starve out two million people with a siege and I am not allowed to say anything about it?
I'm guessing the French government is just seizing on the first opportunity they thought they had to quash the national past time of The French People. Outlaw a protest because you think the majority of the people will support such an action, and you can eventually outlaw all protests.
The government of France bans protests... I've heard that one before I think. What did the French do after?
Eat cake?
We beheaded the cake
Every government seems to know the people won’t actually do that anymore. Peaceful protest was encouraged when the alternative was violence, but now that it’s not, it can be safely banned. The French are ironically a great example— they are notorious for their protests and revolution, yet when the government ignored them and raised retirement age, nothing happened.
I’m not saying this is good or bad, nor calling for action. It’s merely an observation. I further observe that perhaps this is the humanity tamed enough for governments to once again put the people last, but with the firepower to enforce it eternally. We need good people seeking public office to prevent this, and other solutions.
you can tell because this decision by the french government is currently seeing universal fucking praise
Europeans believe in being civil first.
We just wish you'd man the fuck up and stop saying you do have free speech. Shits annoying.
We're allowed to straight up lie to a judge in order to defend ourselves... while "everything you say can be used against you", so much for free speech.
Because we believe in freedom of expression.
We do indeed do not follow US laws. Strange how the world works, right?
freedom of expression.
That's also not true, as evidenced by this ban on expression.
What about anti-Israel protests, are those still allowed?
Damn, France taking an L on this one
L for Liberté
Liberté to protest for government approved causes
I mean thats the only one that matters clearly. Who even need Égalité or Fraternité? /s
Time to start threatening to roll out Le Madame.
I don't now how do we still consider France a democracy . Controlling public opinion by banning protests and controlling the narrative through billionaires' owned media, isn't what comes to my mind when thinking about democracy, reducing it to the freedom to choosing representatives is a slippery slope towards authoritarianism
Sounds like the same way we still consider the US a democracy.
I’m sorry, France. You are straight up Islamophobic. Go fuck yourselves.
Our government is, and most specifically cette tête de pain sucé de Darmanin
it's not like there's nothing to fear
From girls wearing a veil to school?
from an ideology that is at odds with the local culture
Disgusting racists and fascists
Why is like 100% of western media doing this shit rather than discussing imposing real trade restrictions on Israel. (also wtf do all these simps fucking love saudi arabia?)
France is making a large part of its own defense system (fighter jet, navy ships, etc.) and for it to be financially viable, sells some models to other countries. One very good client is Saudi Arabia. You will never hear criticism from this government against Saudis.
Time to protest for free croissants. Two bread solution
Just pick a ridiculous thing to protest against but know that what they are actually protesting is for a free Palestine and a peaceful solution that allows both Israeli and Palestinian people to live without the fear and death they currently deal with.
Does France have free speech protections? Seems like this would be unconstitutional in the US, but not sure what laws exist there.
They have freedom of the press, but no freedom of speech they way it is guaranteed through the US constitution. in fact they have laws against hate speech and antisemitism.
Interesting, it would seem one can support a Palestinian state and oppose retaliation against innocent Palestinian civilians for the actions of an extremist group without being engaged in hate speech or antisemitism, however much the west really struggles with this concept.
They know which side they stand on and they want all their citizens to align to it.
If that’s their justification then did they forget what democracy is about? It’s quite literally the opposite of having the government determine the people’s stance.
They're democratic, just not particularly pluralistic. Everybody's gotta be culturally French, very tyranny of the majority types.
Because it’s a stick to beat Muslim citizens with. It’s what all conservative French governments have been doing for the last 15 years, more or less openly depending on Le Pen’s (father or daughter) polling numbers. Darmanin is about as anti-Muslim pro-police-state as they come.
"Freedom of speech" as it's known in the US is slightly misnamed. It's more accurately "freedom from government regulation of speech", and the EU doesn't really have the same protections.
They have a lot of things that can be set on fire. That's a form of free speech protection.
More importantly, they have a police force that won't massacre protesters.
They shelled our peaceful protest in southern California with tear gas mortars. Peaceful protest isn't even de facto legal in the US.
Lol there is nothing about this comment that isn't over the top dramaticism.
Most European countries do have free speech protections, but with much more limitations than in the US. (IIRC the US would also not allow e.g. speech calling for a lynch mob, as long as it's specific enough.)
Various forms of hate speech, including support for terrorist organizations, are covered by those. Terrorist usually isn't just what the government dislikes; it usually requires (or is subject to review by) a court decision.
There are obvious arguments against such rules, but there are very few social benefits to letting people support literal child murdering terrorists, call for the lynching of certain groups of people, claim that the Holocaust never happened and should be repeated (sic), or just march up and down the street in Nazi uniforms showing off their right arms much to the dismay of any survivors, their descendants, and the people who would be next on the list.
The main risk is the government abusing its power to ban all anti-government protests. Europe has decided that this risk is small enough with all checks and balances in place to be worth the social benefit. The US has decided otherwise.
IIRC the US would also not allow e.g. speech calling for a lynch mob, as long as it's specific enough.
Participation in a lynvh mob is illegal, but calling for one I don't believe has been tested in court and would likely not pass judicial review (IANAL).
Trump has been calling for violence regarding his many court cases, and has since been put under a gag order. Calls for violence do not seem to be protected under the 1st amendment.
You can't loose your rights in the US without due process. Trump is under a gag order after a valid due process made it so.
Good intentions as there's a lot of antisemitism from outside viewers, but it doesn't set a good precedent.
the good intentions are a pretense at best, the french governmenr is perfectly aware that criticism of zionism is not antisemitism
they dont want jewish folks to feel safe, they want palestinians to feel unsafe
They want protesters to feel unsafe. The French government is getting sick and tired of the French national hobby, and are trying to quash the population. Thankfully the French people are absolutely incorrigible, and will continue their favorite pasttime in defiance of silly authoritarians
I'm sure this will sit well with the Muslim population of France. Pro Palestine is not pro hamas nor is it antisemitic.
They sure are strutting right up to the reigning world champions of effective street protest and sticking their chins out, aren’t they?
(Your username makes me hear the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer Krogan blood rage laugh, by the way)
I'm part jewish, european, anti hamas, pro palestine. Why wouldn't I be allowed to show my support for Palestine? Israel is trying to starve out two million people with a siege and I am not allowed to say anything about it?
I'm guessing the French government is just seizing on the first opportunity they thought they had to quash the national past time of The French People. Outlaw a protest because you think the majority of the people will support such an action, and you can eventually outlaw all protests.
The government of France bans protests... I've heard that one before I think. What did the French do after?
Eat cake?
We beheaded the cake
Every government seems to know the people won’t actually do that anymore. Peaceful protest was encouraged when the alternative was violence, but now that it’s not, it can be safely banned. The French are ironically a great example— they are notorious for their protests and revolution, yet when the government ignored them and raised retirement age, nothing happened.
I’m not saying this is good or bad, nor calling for action. It’s merely an observation. I further observe that perhaps this is the humanity tamed enough for governments to once again put the people last, but with the firepower to enforce it eternally. We need good people seeking public office to prevent this, and other solutions.
Regardless of where you stand on the Israel/Hammas situation, the state shouldn't have this kind of power.
France does this because of Charlie Hebdo.
The US didn’t even do this over 9/11.
Tbf there weren't a lot of pro-Al Qaeda protests in the US after 9/11 (and btw there were a lot more islamist terror attacks in France than just Charlie Hebdo)
Europeans don't believe in free speech.
you can tell because this decision by the french government is currently seeing universal fucking praise
Europeans believe in being civil first.
We just wish you'd man the fuck up and stop saying you do have free speech. Shits annoying.
We're allowed to straight up lie to a judge in order to defend ourselves... while "everything you say can be used against you", so much for free speech.
Because we believe in freedom of expression.
We do indeed do not follow US laws. Strange how the world works, right?
That's also not true, as evidenced by this ban on expression.
What about anti-Israel protests, are those still allowed?
Damn, France taking an L on this one
L for Liberté
Liberté to protest for government approved causes
I mean thats the only one that matters clearly. Who even need Égalité or Fraternité? /s
Time to start threatening to roll out Le Madame.
I don't now how do we still consider France a democracy . Controlling public opinion by banning protests and controlling the narrative through billionaires' owned media, isn't what comes to my mind when thinking about democracy, reducing it to the freedom to choosing representatives is a slippery slope towards authoritarianism
Sounds like the same way we still consider the US a democracy.
I’m sorry, France. You are straight up Islamophobic. Go fuck yourselves.
Our government is, and most specifically cette tête de pain sucé de Darmanin
it's not like there's nothing to fear
From girls wearing a veil to school?
from an ideology that is at odds with the local culture
Disgusting racists and fascists
Why is like 100% of western media doing this shit rather than discussing imposing real trade restrictions on Israel. (also wtf do all these simps fucking love saudi arabia?)
France is making a large part of its own defense system (fighter jet, navy ships, etc.) and for it to be financially viable, sells some models to other countries. One very good client is Saudi Arabia. You will never hear criticism from this government against Saudis.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
If you thought any measures taken for Ukraine were because of morals you're very mistaken
Time to protest for free croissants. Two bread solution
Just pick a ridiculous thing to protest against but know that what they are actually protesting is for a free Palestine and a peaceful solution that allows both Israeli and Palestinian people to live without the fear and death they currently deal with.
Does France have free speech protections? Seems like this would be unconstitutional in the US, but not sure what laws exist there.
They have freedom of the press, but no freedom of speech they way it is guaranteed through the US constitution. in fact they have laws against hate speech and antisemitism.
Interesting, it would seem one can support a Palestinian state and oppose retaliation against innocent Palestinian civilians for the actions of an extremist group without being engaged in hate speech or antisemitism, however much the west really struggles with this concept.
They know which side they stand on and they want all their citizens to align to it.
If that’s their justification then did they forget what democracy is about? It’s quite literally the opposite of having the government determine the people’s stance.
They're democratic, just not particularly pluralistic. Everybody's gotta be culturally French, very tyranny of the majority types.
Because it’s a stick to beat Muslim citizens with. It’s what all conservative French governments have been doing for the last 15 years, more or less openly depending on Le Pen’s (father or daughter) polling numbers. Darmanin is about as anti-Muslim pro-police-state as they come.
"Freedom of speech" as it's known in the US is slightly misnamed. It's more accurately "freedom from government regulation of speech", and the EU doesn't really have the same protections.
They have a lot of things that can be set on fire. That's a form of free speech protection.
More importantly, they have a police force that won't massacre protesters.
They shelled our peaceful protest in southern California with tear gas mortars. Peaceful protest isn't even de facto legal in the US.
Lol there is nothing about this comment that isn't over the top dramaticism.
Most European countries do have free speech protections, but with much more limitations than in the US. (IIRC the US would also not allow e.g. speech calling for a lynch mob, as long as it's specific enough.)
Various forms of hate speech, including support for terrorist organizations, are covered by those. Terrorist usually isn't just what the government dislikes; it usually requires (or is subject to review by) a court decision.
There are obvious arguments against such rules, but there are very few social benefits to letting people support literal child murdering terrorists, call for the lynching of certain groups of people, claim that the Holocaust never happened and should be repeated (sic), or just march up and down the street in Nazi uniforms showing off their right arms much to the dismay of any survivors, their descendants, and the people who would be next on the list.
The main risk is the government abusing its power to ban all anti-government protests. Europe has decided that this risk is small enough with all checks and balances in place to be worth the social benefit. The US has decided otherwise.
Participation in a lynvh mob is illegal, but calling for one I don't believe has been tested in court and would likely not pass judicial review (IANAL).
Trump has been calling for violence regarding his many court cases, and has since been put under a gag order. Calls for violence do not seem to be protected under the 1st amendment.
You can't loose your rights in the US without due process. Trump is under a gag order after a valid due process made it so.
Good intentions as there's a lot of antisemitism from outside viewers, but it doesn't set a good precedent.
the good intentions are a pretense at best, the french governmenr is perfectly aware that criticism of zionism is not antisemitism
they dont want jewish folks to feel safe, they want palestinians to feel unsafe
They want protesters to feel unsafe. The French government is getting sick and tired of the French national hobby, and are trying to quash the population. Thankfully the French people are absolutely incorrigible, and will continue their favorite pasttime in defiance of silly authoritarians
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