In 20 years or less this will sound as stupid as if some "innovator" of the early automobile days had added a galloping motion to car seats or a lever you could pull to dump fake manure in the middle of the road.
Look, I really enjoy driving a car with a manual transmission, and I will probably own one until they are as expensive to own as a horse is currenrly. But I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would take a system that has none of the disadvantages of a manual transmission system, and... add them back in a completely superficial way for some reason.
Yeah, I've driven manual transmissions my whole life and recently got a leaf, there's no reason to add all this crap to it to make it more fun. It's the most responsive car I've ever driven and I mostly drive it in "less fun mode"
I could see having a "transmission" in something like a rivian, but more as something for off-roading or carrying heavy loads to give you more control of your speed and rather than mimicking a sports car.
Can I get the "fake" manure feature on my current car? The ability to have my car take a shit would be hilarious!
I don't think I like it. No judgement for others but I don't like cars with fake vents and I'm sure I won't like cars with fake transmissions.
I think there is value in a transmission in EVs. While they don't really need under gears they do need overdrive to get better highway mileage. And I imagine if we put weaker engines we could use under gears to get the performance with less of a power drain.
Some cars first gear is over 3:1 while others it's closer to 2:1.
Porsche Taycan has a two speed gearbox, primarily so it can cruise at autobahn speeds without impacting acceleration. Efficiency benefits only work if the extra weight of the gearbox and transmission losses aren't more than the range gained .
You won't gain anything meaningful from an overdrive with electric motors, they don't need to be kept in a small rpm band to not lose efficiency
Overdrive puts the engine in a lower RPM band which would save the battery I feel like. Plus a few cars have em.
Electric motors don’t like low rpm’s. You’ll end up using more battery as the torque requirement to move the taller gear set is higher.
So a small high RPM motor that doesn't have a lot of torque and needs higher gear ratios to make up for it but uses less electricity in trade is out?
Seems silly to me.
So it’s just how electricity works. With an ICE engine you have a powerband, and the individual gears solve the issue of power and efficiency.
CVTs also solve this issue by putting the ICE motor at peak rpm efficiency for the task. Eventually with an ICE motor the rpm’s can only go so low or else you’ll lug the motor introducing extra heat and pressure that will blow it up.
Back to electric, what happens when you turn a switch on in a room to power a light or fan? Why are fan settings 0-3-2-1 and not 0-1-2-3?
It’s because motors are designed to come on at full power to overcome mass. If you were to introduce a taller gear set like an ICE motor, even at higher speed, you’re introducing the motor to higher resistance than the voltage can overcome so it puts extra stress on the electric motor which in turn increases the amperage.
This will consume more power, and create excess heat, thus lowering efficiency. Not to mention the vehicle has to overcome drag and air resistance and the extra weight of this new drivetrain on an already heavy vehicle.
Now, that’s not to say it isn’t impossible or impractical, but there’s no real efficiency to be gained since electric motors maintain same or similar efficiency across all ranges.
That all makes sense except why do some EVs have real gears? I feel like Porsche probably knows what they're doing when they put one in theirs.
Theirs unfortunately has no efficiency benefit. There’s two motors in the taycan, front and back.
Front motor is single speed, and once the car hits 62mph it shifts to second in the rear motor only.
The taycan is all about being fast, not efficient.
Maybe that's the use for a transmission then? Like CPU cores, efficiency cores and performance cores? Dunno, not an expert here. I do think what we think now is unlikely to be what we think as the technology matures and gets reinvented.
Yes, in reviews and media documents it is mentioned the Taycan has the second gear to be able to maintain Autobahn level speeds. It’s not explicitly mentioned, but Porsche won’t outright confirm efficiency last I looked, so even they don’t think it helps range. Just speed.
But it’s not that there isn’t efficiency to be gained, it’s just so small it’s not worth it. In order for even a 2 speed ev, the shift point would need to be approximately 70-80mph to realize efficiency gains.
That’s just not something that’s done with EV’s. Most are city centric, and even if you are driving 70-80mph in an EV, you’re hitting peak efficiency of the motor anyways. It’s a bell curve, so it’ll only start to taper off not drop like a cliff. Although, the one side might drop faster due to how resistance works.
My wife's EV peak efficiency seems to be 45mph give or take. That's where we get the most range. If we do a lot of local driving or a lot of interstate driving we get less range it seems.
I don't know nearly enough about this subject and appreciate the back and forth, I just feel like that problem can be solved better than it is today and feel like there might be a place for a transmission.
Though in the end this whole thing started by hating "fake" transmissions as much as fake vents on cars. My taste isn't global and I don't think everyone should think like I do. Though I do love manuals and would love a real reason for a manual on an EV. My car is amazing but as a gas car I know an EV version (once they get better batteries for lower weight) is solved would be really compelling but I don't want to lose the manual.
I get that it might not be realistic but it's part of my view on why I lean the way I do. Just trying to paint a picture of my mindset.
Right on. I apologize if I came off a little gruff, there’s a lot of stuff to try and say on this subject haha. Trying not to get too wordy.
But the manual EV can be done. Ford released the “Lithium” concept in 2019, and if you take a look at Autoblog website, Toyota just unveiled their “manual EV” prototype. It even simulates stalling!
I’m sure we’ll get there! But the demand just has to be high enough which makes it difficult. Manual take rate over the last few years has bounced around 3-5% in the US.
It doesn’t help that there are fewer to choose from every year. Even the base mustang doesn’t have a manual anymore.
This is so dumb. A manual transmission is one way to solve for the power band of ICEs. EVs don't have this issue. Why create it?
Fun.
Yeah, let's be honest - your average manual car driver chose that transmission for one reason - fun. And there's really no reason it wouldn't apply here. Manual transmissions have been "pointless" from a purely practical view for years, especially with autostick being a thing. But people like them because they're fun to drive, and some people like being more involved with their driving experience.
Tldr; let people have their fun, it's not like this is ever going to be standard - you'll never be forced to buy one lol
Maintenance/cost. New autos, especially CVTs, are no fun to work on, and if you need to replace one, you'll be shelling out way more cash than if you had to replace a 5/6 speed. I agree that most people in NORTH AMERICA buy manuals for fun, but in many other places it's a different story.
What's with the weird capitalization of north America?
Couldn't figure out how to do italics?
I was too lazy to look (found it)
If modern cheap cars used good transmissions there'd be no need for manual. But man.. I am still super annoyed by anything that isn't A dual-clutch transmission.
I want power instantly.
The only way to get that is EV or manual transmission.
The traditional reason for a manual was fuel and oil efficiency which was kinda miserable when automatic transmissions came up. However this reason has been long turned around where automatics are certainly more efficient.
Even in europe manual usage is dwindling.
Ngl I feel like falling asleep when I drive an automatic car. I'm not even a car bro or anything. I just think if I'm gonna have to drive a lot, it may as well be more engaging to my monkey brain
But there’s nothing to engage, nothing to do. They just add a momentary drop of power like you’d hear in an automatic. You’re not taking any action. There’s no skill to develop. There’s no fun to be had
I like appreciating the wonders of the machine as they are. I love driving a stick and revel in the sudden revs, power. I love how smooth an automatic can shift. I love the steady pull of a CVT. And as of two hours ago, I love the sudden incredible thrill of huge amounts of torque in an EV. Be true to the machine, don’t accept a fake
I drove a 200km round trip daily for several years and there were times where I only remember getting and the car after work and suddenly being home. I couldn't have been asleep since I didn't die and made the correct turns. It was a stick shift 98 civic.
Same reason Dodge is gonna put fake engine noise in their EV charger
In their EV Charger or their EV charger?
Imagine plugging in your car and all of the sudden you hear engine revving noises.
Actually, to be honest... I'd probably love that.
Also very silly 😜
So its cosplay for cars? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
All the work and effort needed to eek out the most performance from an ICE car is an understandable act. For purists that don't mind the effort they can achieve something that most can't in ICE. For those that can't we just watch and appreciate their talents.
However for EV none of that is necessary and in fact introducing manual "rev limits" or limitations or speed or performance at certain vehicle speeds to simulate the shortcomings of an ICE car (with a narrow power band that defines the limit of the technology) is the opposite of "extra effort for extra performance". Its "reduced performance for extra effort". Its making a thing look and act like another thing purely for cosmetic reasons.
I have no problem if people want to do this or buy vehicles that have this, but its not something I'm interested in.
I'm sure production will make manual mode just a mode, same as shift mode in automatics (including cvt). Some people just enjoy it. I have a mild sports car and a shitty mini truck. I have a "beginner" motorcycle and a rocketing sport bike. The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I'm pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.
Besides, this is one step closer to the skateboard chassis dream. One base platform with swappable bodies. Could be an auto 7-seat fwd wagon on monday, an auto 3-seat cabover pickup on Thursday, and a manual 2-seat rwd roadster on Saturday.
The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I’m pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.
But there's purpose to moving through the gears on the baby bike and shitty mini truck: You're extracting the most performance from the hardware.
Imagine for a moment you could still do that on those vehicles but that the performance would be worse if you do. Would you still do it?
Not OP, but yes
The act of shifting and the way that it influences the way the car/bike reacts is an integral part of the driving experience. There’s no fun in just pressing a go pedal with no input.
When you drive an automatic transmission ICE car, do you also use the shift handle to force the automatic transmission to use lower gears until you're up to speed? Do you exclusively use paddle shifters in automatic transmission cars (where available)?
No, because it’s not performance driving.
My daily is a very boring, early 2000s automatic suv. It really doesn’t matter if something like that is an EV. I’ll probably replace it in the next 10 years with some base model EV to do my commute to work. It’s boring, but it works.
In any kind of performance driving car, which this is clearly trying to be, the ice and the shifting is integral to the experience.
To someone who only drives because they have to, it’s not going to make a difference. But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is. It’s not as refined or easy as an EV, but it’s more fun.
But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is.
Lets examine this idea for a moment. Things like traction control, ABS brakes, and even to an extend air bags change the nature of what the driving experience is. Each of these technologies removes human control from a system and replaces it with something automated. Yet few drivers disable these things to retain the original "driving experience". Why are these things, which bring improvements to the car's performance, accepted, but the idea of having to mess with a less efficient gearbox isn't?
I’d say counter to that. When driving a performance vehicle hard, ABS and TC are something you absolutely want to turn off. Road car ABS sucks to drive with, as it deadens the feel from the brakes. They’re important for the road for safety, but as soon as all you can let the real performance out on track those are the first things to disable, as they actually make it harder to go fast.
Air bags change nothing about a driving experience.
Not everyone wants or needs improvements. People who drive because they have to will want the easiest, most efficient, most sanitized inputs. People who like cars tend to want the most raw feeling they can get. That includes driving assists off, generally only leaving power steering.
I think you're making my points.
At the track, every measure can be taken to improve performance
In your daily driver, you don't go through all options necessary to maximize performance because its not worth it
In both cases a slower, less efficient and lower performance, manual gearbox is the wrong rational choice.
This doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the choice for their hobby. There are lots of hobbies where the point is to be less efficient/performant as a callback to a bygone era. There are those that still take joy in hooking up a team of horses to pull a wagon. There are woodworkers that eschew any power tools to experience the joy of creation in the era before power tools. Drivers that want to use old cumbersome methods to re-create what was needed for performance driving in the old era will be no different.
I support you in your hobby of driving in classic ways as a callback to old technology.
I disagree fundamentally, but I’m done with this pointless argument
I see no point in EVs as anything more than a commute vehicle. They’re not fun to drive, they’re soulless and they’re boring. They offer nothing but a reduction in quality and experience in driving.
There’s no argument for a go pedal being fun. A lack of gears is not something I’m ever interested in. Even an automatic still has gearing and it’s still an integral part of driving one.
Maybe it would be more engaging to drive, but it's just more expense and more to go wrong.
I'm counting down the days honestly. I prefer small manual hatchbacks and nobody's making them. Had to sell my fiesta when we moved and even though I miss it, I'll never buy ford again.
In the meantime though, while I'm waiting for these magical shifting EVs, I grabbed a 2001 Honda insight. Older ones had a manual option. 61mpg.
This is completely unsurprising to me. It is just like how focus groups wanted "gear shifts" on CVTs because the more efficient steady RPM was disconcerting to them. Yes it feels like delaying the inevitable but sometimes the general public needs to be gently transitioned (yes I know all of this is refuted by the success of gearbox-less EVs).
Some people need assisted aids to help them transition. If this is fun for them then let them have it. It would be not much different than an expensive driving rig for Forza or Asseto Corsa.
I could see this being very useful, as electric motors are usually less efficient at higher speed and they generate more heat (more cooling required). So using a transmission that enables lower motor rpm at highway speeds could potentially mean longer highway range, if the transmission is light and efficient enough of course
Except that it doesn't. The actual gear ratio is determined by the software for optimal performance and the shifting merely controls the car audio system and modulates the electric motors to jolt or regeneratively brake to simulate the drag of a physical transmission box. If anything, the motors will be acting in a non-efficient way to simulate the effects of non-optimal manual transmission hijinks, as tested by the author (much to his enjoyment).
Personally, I disabled the "V8 sound" Ford stupidly pipes into the cab of its V6 trucks. I bought the thing because the cab is so quite, not so I could get fake engine noise to make my penis appear larger. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just not the experience I'm looking for in an automobile. To each his or her own. More than 99% of the time I want a vehicle where I put in the destination and then ignore it for the rest of my trip. I get the appeal - I learned on a stick and I'm cheap enough that I rent manual cars overseas - I just don't share the need for it; at least not enough to pay extra to have it as a cosmetic add on.
Lol pumping in the V8 sound into a vehicle without one is a thing?
What kind of insecure person would use this "feature?"
"Damn, Tony, that thing got a V8?"
"Nope but it sure sounds like it!"
The reviewer in this article would be one of those people. He got excited by the sound of revving the engine and hearing the result of shifting gears - and he knew it was just an audio effects track. But, also, have you seen (or listened to) men (it's always men) who drone on about their V8 full size pick up trucks? It's absolutely a thing. Don't get me wrong - I like the look of my truck - but I'd be just as happy with an electric F150 that threw a flat 600 ft-lbs of torque and was dead silent. I just want the acceleration and cargo capacity on mountain interstates.
As a manual lover and daily driver this is nuts and pointless.
Downshifting in a ice car doesn't do the same thing as applying the breaks and in fact as the driver if u think it is slowing the engine but it is applying the breaks instead that is dangerous.
So many people who either didn't read the article, or didn't understand it.
I admit I didn't really have the time to read it
Perhaps but this is a fake transmission. Basically an engine & manual transmission simulator.
I admire the execution and no doubt it is more fun than being without. It seems weird and impractical too. For now I have a car with a manual trans but maybe one day I will be glad for having such an option in an EV. Or maybe I will think it is silly. I'm kind of confused in the feelings department right now lol.
indeed, I don't feel like I'm contributing in any automatic but having a fake gear shifter would feel worse I suspect.
In 20 years or less this will sound as stupid as if some "innovator" of the early automobile days had added a galloping motion to car seats or a lever you could pull to dump fake manure in the middle of the road.
Look, I really enjoy driving a car with a manual transmission, and I will probably own one until they are as expensive to own as a horse is currenrly. But I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would take a system that has none of the disadvantages of a manual transmission system, and... add them back in a completely superficial way for some reason.
Yeah, I've driven manual transmissions my whole life and recently got a leaf, there's no reason to add all this crap to it to make it more fun. It's the most responsive car I've ever driven and I mostly drive it in "less fun mode"
I could see having a "transmission" in something like a rivian, but more as something for off-roading or carrying heavy loads to give you more control of your speed and rather than mimicking a sports car.
Can I get the "fake" manure feature on my current car? The ability to have my car take a shit would be hilarious!
I don't think I like it. No judgement for others but I don't like cars with fake vents and I'm sure I won't like cars with fake transmissions.
I think there is value in a transmission in EVs. While they don't really need under gears they do need overdrive to get better highway mileage. And I imagine if we put weaker engines we could use under gears to get the performance with less of a power drain.
Some cars first gear is over 3:1 while others it's closer to 2:1.
Porsche Taycan has a two speed gearbox, primarily so it can cruise at autobahn speeds without impacting acceleration. Efficiency benefits only work if the extra weight of the gearbox and transmission losses aren't more than the range gained .
https://www.wired.com/story/electric-car-two-speed-transmission-gearbox/
This is what I was imagining to start with!
You won't gain anything meaningful from an overdrive with electric motors, they don't need to be kept in a small rpm band to not lose efficiency
Overdrive puts the engine in a lower RPM band which would save the battery I feel like. Plus a few cars have em.
Electric motors don’t like low rpm’s. You’ll end up using more battery as the torque requirement to move the taller gear set is higher.
So a small high RPM motor that doesn't have a lot of torque and needs higher gear ratios to make up for it but uses less electricity in trade is out?
Seems silly to me.
So it’s just how electricity works. With an ICE engine you have a powerband, and the individual gears solve the issue of power and efficiency.
CVTs also solve this issue by putting the ICE motor at peak rpm efficiency for the task. Eventually with an ICE motor the rpm’s can only go so low or else you’ll lug the motor introducing extra heat and pressure that will blow it up.
Back to electric, what happens when you turn a switch on in a room to power a light or fan? Why are fan settings 0-3-2-1 and not 0-1-2-3?
It’s because motors are designed to come on at full power to overcome mass. If you were to introduce a taller gear set like an ICE motor, even at higher speed, you’re introducing the motor to higher resistance than the voltage can overcome so it puts extra stress on the electric motor which in turn increases the amperage.
This will consume more power, and create excess heat, thus lowering efficiency. Not to mention the vehicle has to overcome drag and air resistance and the extra weight of this new drivetrain on an already heavy vehicle.
Now, that’s not to say it isn’t impossible or impractical, but there’s no real efficiency to be gained since electric motors maintain same or similar efficiency across all ranges.
That all makes sense except why do some EVs have real gears? I feel like Porsche probably knows what they're doing when they put one in theirs.
Theirs unfortunately has no efficiency benefit. There’s two motors in the taycan, front and back.
Front motor is single speed, and once the car hits 62mph it shifts to second in the rear motor only.
The taycan is all about being fast, not efficient.
Maybe that's the use for a transmission then? Like CPU cores, efficiency cores and performance cores? Dunno, not an expert here. I do think what we think now is unlikely to be what we think as the technology matures and gets reinvented.
Yes, in reviews and media documents it is mentioned the Taycan has the second gear to be able to maintain Autobahn level speeds. It’s not explicitly mentioned, but Porsche won’t outright confirm efficiency last I looked, so even they don’t think it helps range. Just speed.
But it’s not that there isn’t efficiency to be gained, it’s just so small it’s not worth it. In order for even a 2 speed ev, the shift point would need to be approximately 70-80mph to realize efficiency gains.
That’s just not something that’s done with EV’s. Most are city centric, and even if you are driving 70-80mph in an EV, you’re hitting peak efficiency of the motor anyways. It’s a bell curve, so it’ll only start to taper off not drop like a cliff. Although, the one side might drop faster due to how resistance works.
My wife's EV peak efficiency seems to be 45mph give or take. That's where we get the most range. If we do a lot of local driving or a lot of interstate driving we get less range it seems.
I don't know nearly enough about this subject and appreciate the back and forth, I just feel like that problem can be solved better than it is today and feel like there might be a place for a transmission.
Though in the end this whole thing started by hating "fake" transmissions as much as fake vents on cars. My taste isn't global and I don't think everyone should think like I do. Though I do love manuals and would love a real reason for a manual on an EV. My car is amazing but as a gas car I know an EV version (once they get better batteries for lower weight) is solved would be really compelling but I don't want to lose the manual.
I get that it might not be realistic but it's part of my view on why I lean the way I do. Just trying to paint a picture of my mindset.
Right on. I apologize if I came off a little gruff, there’s a lot of stuff to try and say on this subject haha. Trying not to get too wordy.
But the manual EV can be done. Ford released the “Lithium” concept in 2019, and if you take a look at Autoblog website, Toyota just unveiled their “manual EV” prototype. It even simulates stalling!
I’m sure we’ll get there! But the demand just has to be high enough which makes it difficult. Manual take rate over the last few years has bounced around 3-5% in the US.
It doesn’t help that there are fewer to choose from every year. Even the base mustang doesn’t have a manual anymore.
This is so dumb. A manual transmission is one way to solve for the power band of ICEs. EVs don't have this issue. Why create it?
Fun.
Yeah, let's be honest - your average manual car driver chose that transmission for one reason - fun. And there's really no reason it wouldn't apply here. Manual transmissions have been "pointless" from a purely practical view for years, especially with autostick being a thing. But people like them because they're fun to drive, and some people like being more involved with their driving experience.
Tldr; let people have their fun, it's not like this is ever going to be standard - you'll never be forced to buy one lol
Maintenance/cost. New autos, especially CVTs, are no fun to work on, and if you need to replace one, you'll be shelling out way more cash than if you had to replace a 5/6 speed. I agree that most people in NORTH AMERICA buy manuals for fun, but in many other places it's a different story.
What's with the weird capitalization of north America?
Couldn't figure out how to do italics?
I was too lazy to look (found it)
If modern cheap cars used good transmissions there'd be no need for manual. But man.. I am still super annoyed by anything that isn't A dual-clutch transmission.
I want power instantly.
The only way to get that is EV or manual transmission.
The traditional reason for a manual was fuel and oil efficiency which was kinda miserable when automatic transmissions came up. However this reason has been long turned around where automatics are certainly more efficient.
Even in europe manual usage is dwindling.
Ngl I feel like falling asleep when I drive an automatic car. I'm not even a car bro or anything. I just think if I'm gonna have to drive a lot, it may as well be more engaging to my monkey brain
But there’s nothing to engage, nothing to do. They just add a momentary drop of power like you’d hear in an automatic. You’re not taking any action. There’s no skill to develop. There’s no fun to be had
I like appreciating the wonders of the machine as they are. I love driving a stick and revel in the sudden revs, power. I love how smooth an automatic can shift. I love the steady pull of a CVT. And as of two hours ago, I love the sudden incredible thrill of huge amounts of torque in an EV. Be true to the machine, don’t accept a fake
I drove a 200km round trip daily for several years and there were times where I only remember getting and the car after work and suddenly being home. I couldn't have been asleep since I didn't die and made the correct turns. It was a stick shift 98 civic.
Same reason Dodge is gonna put fake engine noise in their EV charger
In their EV Charger or their EV charger?
Imagine plugging in your car and all of the sudden you hear engine revving noises.
Actually, to be honest... I'd probably love that.
Also very silly 😜
So its cosplay for cars? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
All the work and effort needed to eek out the most performance from an ICE car is an understandable act. For purists that don't mind the effort they can achieve something that most can't in ICE. For those that can't we just watch and appreciate their talents.
However for EV none of that is necessary and in fact introducing manual "rev limits" or limitations or speed or performance at certain vehicle speeds to simulate the shortcomings of an ICE car (with a narrow power band that defines the limit of the technology) is the opposite of "extra effort for extra performance". Its "reduced performance for extra effort". Its making a thing look and act like another thing purely for cosmetic reasons.
I have no problem if people want to do this or buy vehicles that have this, but its not something I'm interested in.
I'm sure production will make manual mode just a mode, same as shift mode in automatics (including cvt). Some people just enjoy it. I have a mild sports car and a shitty mini truck. I have a "beginner" motorcycle and a rocketing sport bike. The sport bike and sport car check boxes for performing well, but the baby bike and shitty mini truck are a blast to row through the gears on in double-digit speeds and half the gas. For all intents and purposes I'm pretending those two are race vehicles while being far from it with their US-highway shortcomings.
Besides, this is one step closer to the skateboard chassis dream. One base platform with swappable bodies. Could be an auto 7-seat fwd wagon on monday, an auto 3-seat cabover pickup on Thursday, and a manual 2-seat rwd roadster on Saturday.
But there's purpose to moving through the gears on the baby bike and shitty mini truck: You're extracting the most performance from the hardware.
Imagine for a moment you could still do that on those vehicles but that the performance would be worse if you do. Would you still do it?
Not OP, but yes
The act of shifting and the way that it influences the way the car/bike reacts is an integral part of the driving experience. There’s no fun in just pressing a go pedal with no input.
When you drive an automatic transmission ICE car, do you also use the shift handle to force the automatic transmission to use lower gears until you're up to speed? Do you exclusively use paddle shifters in automatic transmission cars (where available)?
No, because it’s not performance driving.
My daily is a very boring, early 2000s automatic suv. It really doesn’t matter if something like that is an EV. I’ll probably replace it in the next 10 years with some base model EV to do my commute to work. It’s boring, but it works.
In any kind of performance driving car, which this is clearly trying to be, the ice and the shifting is integral to the experience.
To someone who only drives because they have to, it’s not going to make a difference. But there’s a lot of enthusiasts who want an ICE because of how the driving experience is. It’s not as refined or easy as an EV, but it’s more fun.
Lets examine this idea for a moment. Things like traction control, ABS brakes, and even to an extend air bags change the nature of what the driving experience is. Each of these technologies removes human control from a system and replaces it with something automated. Yet few drivers disable these things to retain the original "driving experience". Why are these things, which bring improvements to the car's performance, accepted, but the idea of having to mess with a less efficient gearbox isn't?
I’d say counter to that. When driving a performance vehicle hard, ABS and TC are something you absolutely want to turn off. Road car ABS sucks to drive with, as it deadens the feel from the brakes. They’re important for the road for safety, but as soon as all you can let the real performance out on track those are the first things to disable, as they actually make it harder to go fast.
Air bags change nothing about a driving experience.
Not everyone wants or needs improvements. People who drive because they have to will want the easiest, most efficient, most sanitized inputs. People who like cars tend to want the most raw feeling they can get. That includes driving assists off, generally only leaving power steering.
I think you're making my points.
In both cases a slower, less efficient and lower performance, manual gearbox is the wrong rational choice.
This doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the choice for their hobby. There are lots of hobbies where the point is to be less efficient/performant as a callback to a bygone era. There are those that still take joy in hooking up a team of horses to pull a wagon. There are woodworkers that eschew any power tools to experience the joy of creation in the era before power tools. Drivers that want to use old cumbersome methods to re-create what was needed for performance driving in the old era will be no different.
I support you in your hobby of driving in classic ways as a callback to old technology.
I disagree fundamentally, but I’m done with this pointless argument
I see no point in EVs as anything more than a commute vehicle. They’re not fun to drive, they’re soulless and they’re boring. They offer nothing but a reduction in quality and experience in driving.
There’s no argument for a go pedal being fun. A lack of gears is not something I’m ever interested in. Even an automatic still has gearing and it’s still an integral part of driving one.
Maybe it would be more engaging to drive, but it's just more expense and more to go wrong.
I'm counting down the days honestly. I prefer small manual hatchbacks and nobody's making them. Had to sell my fiesta when we moved and even though I miss it, I'll never buy ford again.
In the meantime though, while I'm waiting for these magical shifting EVs, I grabbed a 2001 Honda insight. Older ones had a manual option. 61mpg.
This is completely unsurprising to me. It is just like how focus groups wanted "gear shifts" on CVTs because the more efficient steady RPM was disconcerting to them. Yes it feels like delaying the inevitable but sometimes the general public needs to be gently transitioned (yes I know all of this is refuted by the success of gearbox-less EVs).
Some people need assisted aids to help them transition. If this is fun for them then let them have it. It would be not much different than an expensive driving rig for Forza or Asseto Corsa.
I could see this being very useful, as electric motors are usually less efficient at higher speed and they generate more heat (more cooling required). So using a transmission that enables lower motor rpm at highway speeds could potentially mean longer highway range, if the transmission is light and efficient enough of course
Except that it doesn't. The actual gear ratio is determined by the software for optimal performance and the shifting merely controls the car audio system and modulates the electric motors to jolt or regeneratively brake to simulate the drag of a physical transmission box. If anything, the motors will be acting in a non-efficient way to simulate the effects of non-optimal manual transmission hijinks, as tested by the author (much to his enjoyment).
Personally, I disabled the "V8 sound" Ford stupidly pipes into the cab of its V6 trucks. I bought the thing because the cab is so quite, not so I could get fake engine noise to make my penis appear larger. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just not the experience I'm looking for in an automobile. To each his or her own. More than 99% of the time I want a vehicle where I put in the destination and then ignore it for the rest of my trip. I get the appeal - I learned on a stick and I'm cheap enough that I rent manual cars overseas - I just don't share the need for it; at least not enough to pay extra to have it as a cosmetic add on.
Lol pumping in the V8 sound into a vehicle without one is a thing?
What kind of insecure person would use this "feature?"
"Damn, Tony, that thing got a V8?"
"Nope but it sure sounds like it!"
The reviewer in this article would be one of those people. He got excited by the sound of revving the engine and hearing the result of shifting gears - and he knew it was just an audio effects track. But, also, have you seen (or listened to) men (it's always men) who drone on about their V8 full size pick up trucks? It's absolutely a thing. Don't get me wrong - I like the look of my truck - but I'd be just as happy with an electric F150 that threw a flat 600 ft-lbs of torque and was dead silent. I just want the acceleration and cargo capacity on mountain interstates.
As a manual lover and daily driver this is nuts and pointless. Downshifting in a ice car doesn't do the same thing as applying the breaks and in fact as the driver if u think it is slowing the engine but it is applying the breaks instead that is dangerous.
So many people who either didn't read the article, or didn't understand it.
I admit I didn't really have the time to read it
Perhaps but this is a fake transmission. Basically an engine & manual transmission simulator.
I admire the execution and no doubt it is more fun than being without. It seems weird and impractical too. For now I have a car with a manual trans but maybe one day I will be glad for having such an option in an EV. Or maybe I will think it is silly. I'm kind of confused in the feelings department right now lol.
indeed, I don't feel like I'm contributing in any automatic but having a fake gear shifter would feel worse I suspect.