that erdogan even thinks his country will become part of the eu...
Frankly I'm surprised they're even in NATO.
They've been in NATO since back when the US would lock you up for being gay too. Hell, Texas only removed the law banning same sex relations in 2003. And it took a supreme Court ruling to do it. Sodomy was still a crime in the US army until 2014.
That's what happens when you control a very important location
Together with Greece, they were the first country to join after the 12 founding members - years before Germany and decades before Spain and the other half of the current NATO members.
With big military and startegic position they are one of the most important countries for the alliance. Therefore they also have the cabability to start a circus like they did with Finland and especially with Sweden.
Just goes to show NATO doesn't really give a shot about democratic rights in its member countries.
Well it does and it doesn't. Turkey's trajectory was very different when it joined the alliance. It was one of the most democracy leaning Muslim countries. Also, having a common adversary (Russia) also helped to make them a member.
He looks too happy, that makes him suspicious.
Bet he's up to no good! Like having fun with people regardless off gender.
Damn happy people
A grumpy teacher-person said you can't have fun there.
The original joke is that gay, before being associated to homosexuality, was a synonym for happy.
Is that what you want? A country where people can walk around happy in public? Degenerates..
He looks too happy and to pretty, this did not bode well with Turkish police!
Unironically this is probably the case - feminine ones are excluded from military service for example (show proof to the doctor to escape service), whereas others are allowed.
This is what conservatives around the world want.
They want things much worst than that.
Apparently Turkish jurisprudence operates under the same logic as my high school did in the 90s
It's a classic Turkish move for undercover police to offer membership into the Pen 15 Club, then arrest them when they accept.
Well, there's another country that won't get my tourist dollars and will be talked bad about whenever anyone mentions it for the next 10 years
Sounds like another shit hole country I will avoid like the plague.
Any government / country entangled with religious nutjobs is to be avoided.
Including large swaths of the US. Florida is looking pretty sketch lately.
Exactly, no-one is immune. Religion is a cancer everywhere
Yes. There was a time when I. as a young man, wanted to at least visit the good ole US and A. Back then I didn't have the money. Now when I probably could afford it, I don't have the desire anymore.
There's still places worth visiting. Major cities like New York, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, even Atlanta is largely insulated from the rest of Georgia's nutjob influence.
If you'd rather be outdoors, the U.S. has some spectacular parks and wild spaces. Yosemite, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Arches, the Everglades, damn near anywhere in Alaska and Hawai'i...
I classify Turkey with Iran. Don't go there.
Unfortunately my list for no-go is growing
I wouldn't be so hasty. The middle east, including Turkey, are some of the most culturally rich places to visit. In general, the Arab people are extremely hospitable. There has been civilization in the area for thousands of years and many fascinating antiquities remain. Turkey in particular has a longstanding secular tradition that was started a hundred years ago by Kemal Ataturk, only recently eroded by the religious conservatives. I wouldn't let a few thuggish people put you off.
I'd agree, but given that those few thuggish people in the Middle East seem to be setting policy that includes beating people for looking gay all the way up to beheadings, it might be beast to avoid it for now.
I don't think it makes sense to go anywhere completely whimsically. Times change and caution is prudent. Nobody is taking the silk road through Afghanistan any more but it was once a popular route, for example. However, I believe in the goodness of people. Most people just wanna be happy, kindness and respect goes a long way.
True, most people are willing to live and let live, but a lot of places have people where you won't know what you're dealing with until its too late. And I'm not even talking about the middle east specifically.
Neither Turks nor Iranians are Arabs
The problem is the thuggish people seem to be in charge these days. The people I met in Turkey when I visited long ago were indeed kind though.
We have Turkish people where I live. I don't need to go to a place that does that sorta thing.
I was telling my friend that I took my wife to the Carribbean.
Jamaica?
No, she came of her own accord.
Is France on that list too then? They tear gas people for having a contrary opinion to the state after all.
France is immune to that list, because I live there :/
Well, AK Party is cancer. CHP should lead Turkey instead of corrupt Erdogan brains.
Is that web reliable? Can people go 20 days without sleeping? Simple Google search says record is 11 days. And he worries about detainees? Not gays? And yeah, the web description is "unbiased, well researched, independent news." You know they are bad when they do those kind of claims. Just criticizing the website, not the story. Commenting because that's how I'm doing my part. ><
You are correct. The title is misleading.
*He was detained for participating in an “eventful” Pride march.
*On the bus, some "Chechens" said he “looked like a gay."
According to him.
Berlin-based ArtıGerçek (the original, Turkish-language version of GercekNews) is a sensational-yet-prominent left-liberal Turkish-language newsletter. "GercekNews" is much more fresh and novice, uses an outdated UI of artigercek.com
While gay sex was never illegal there there's a couple of "public indecency" type laws which allow police to harass folks. Regarding public sentiment: If tomorrow you had a referendum whether civil unions should be introduced it would not be unlikely to pass, pro-marriage and pro-union are almost 50% with 30% undecided. And don't think that protesters for other stuff are treated more kindly.
Comparing the situation in Turkey to that in other Muslim countries, as done in the icky portions of the post replies, (except say Albania), is dishonest and misleading as fuck: Most problems arise not really because Turkey is a homophobic shithole, much less a particularly homophobic one, but because it's a shithole. Go ahead, try to outlaw alcohol in Turkey and you'll see how much arguing with the Quran is accepted there.
Bonus song (enable subtitles). Oh and someone has to explain to Turkish machos that bullying bottoms is totally gay.
I wouldn't say Turkey is a "shithole" — whatever that means. Turkey is in a serious culture war. Besides being ruled by an Islamic populist autocrat, and for that reason, it is one of the most "Islamophobic" countries in the world.
About 10 percent of the adult population and 30 percent of the gen-Zers are non-theistic. Most of them are anti-theistic, anti-Islamic, Stalinian atheists, who would completely agree with you on Turkey being a shithole, and want a "battle-ready" "democracy" in a cruel "battle" with Islam and Muslims.
While the trans surgeries is not affirmed by medicare and there is real stigma around it, trans people have every legal right, including official name and sex —yes, sex— change. And like Erdogan says, "the opposition is gay." They're for LGBT rights.
And, except alien ghettos and other no-go zones, it is not a "shithole" in the means of culture, security, safety, crime rates, and legal issues aren't about the "overlords."
So, it's a mixed bag. It is a terrible country economically, equalitically etc. But not completely unsalvagable. Turkey definitely can be "OK, fine" again.
--
"If tomorrow you had a referendum whether civil unions should be introduced it would not be unlikely to pass, pro-marriage and pro-union are almost 50% with 30% undecided."
This is not terrible. Check out how Ireland legalized gay marriage.
Why would anyone straight have a problem with anyone being gay? Are they all in the closet and think that what they feel is what everyone feels, and somehow the fault of gay people?
Well, to be “fair,” a significant portion of homophobes believe an invisible man in the sky said it was bad, according to some guys who knew some guys who knew a guy that died several hundred years before they wrote that into their “things the invisible man in the sky said” collection of fan fiction.
Well, to be “fair,” a significant portion of homophobes believe an invisible man in the sky said it was bad…
If it weren't for that, I would imagine it'd be advantageous for straight guys for there to be a gay guys: there'd be less competition for the women!
...except there are also gay women at roughly the same percentages.
Given how straight men think it's hot, yeah, I don't think they mind, so long as they get to watch.
I didn't get it until I started getting serious about weight loss (doing well btw :)) you develop a raw anger at people eating food that you can't enjoy. Of course I don't say anything. It's like that expression
If you are a liberal vegetarian you do not eat meat
If you are a conservative vegetarian no one gets to eat meat except for you.
You know, for one reason or another I won't bother you with I'm still in the WhatsApp group of my childhood friends.
They're a bunch of dicks, and tbh were I to meet them today I'd avoid them like the plague, but a couple of people in there are actual friends, so I stick around.
Anyway, the humour in the chat is that of many WhatsApp groups, jokes about women, sex and so on.
Boomers humour, so to speak, even though we're all X-Gen.
Sadly, 80% are jokes about gays, which can get fairly nasty at times.
A couple of weeks ago I actually said "hey, how come you guys always joke about gays and trans? Like, all the time? You know who does that? Closeted homosexuals".
Then I linked a few articles of random gay-bashing Republicans who were caught fiddling kids and were forced to admitting being gay.
"Rings a bell?"
I haven't seen a gay joke in the group since.
Pedo =/= homosexual. Kind of a fucked up suggestion on your part.
I think a mix of religion and being brought up with old-school morality. I'm a conservative who has no problems with homosexuals, in fact HIV/AIDS is one of the causes I really get behind because the history of it fascinates me (currently reading And The Band Played On, it's great).
Whenever I see homophobia or erroneous beliefs about them I try and correct them when I can.
Years ago a friend's rock band was touring Europe and they landed a show at a club in Turkey About a month before the show the owner of the bar sent an email to the booking agent that said "We don't allow fags in our bar, Show canceled" The band had a video with a drag queen in it.
This is a fair decision for Turkey. You can't expect the owner to allow fags, it would bring in the entire country to compete with him in sucking some gay dick, and they just don't have enough seating for that.
Why would you even go to that shithole?
I would've guessed it was for looking hot.
It's the usual reason fundamentalists get violent toward women and gay men: they're aroused, but aren't allowed to express it.
*He was detained for participating in an "eventful" Pride march.
*On the bus, Chechens said he "looked like a gay".
According to him.
EDIT: I did not claim that Turkish people are not homophobic. I did not minimize the injustice suffered by the Portuguese man. Why are you downvoting this?
He claims he didn't participate.
So do we believe the people who lock people up for being gay or the gay dude thrown in prison for 20 days for looking gay?
Turkey doesn't lock people up for being gay. Homosexuality was never criminalised. Public displays of affection are another issue but just being gay, no.
That doesn't line up with a single person's version of the story.
He says he was locked up for looking gay, Turkey claims they locked him up for being at a pride event.
Neither of those are public displays of affection.
Bootlicker
Just because someone is gay or got called gay doesn't mean that they've been arrested for being gay. Laws surrounding demonstrations are illiberal enough on their own to result in getting locked up.
It stated that he was arrested just for "looking" gay. I had to read way too far into the article to clarify that the police suspicions were actually correct.
Wtf
Another country that should never have been allowed into the EU. Fucking dipshits went from a secular nation to a religious hellhole.
Turkey is luckily not in the EU.
Recently they tried to use their veto power in NATO to block Sweden's entry unless they're allowed to begin the process of joining the EU but that got shut down real quick.
I now look forward to seeing the Turkish and Portuguese Mafia settle this with a breakdancing competition over the Kabbalah hahaha
Before reading the headline, loocking at the tumbnail image, you & I thought ...
::: spoiler spoiler
... !
:::
I thought he should be beat up and arrested?!?
Are you serious ? He does look pretty pretty happy ...freaking gay even.
that erdogan even thinks his country will become part of the eu...
Frankly I'm surprised they're even in NATO.
They've been in NATO since back when the US would lock you up for being gay too. Hell, Texas only removed the law banning same sex relations in 2003. And it took a supreme Court ruling to do it. Sodomy was still a crime in the US army until 2014.
That's what happens when you control a very important location
Together with Greece, they were the first country to join after the 12 founding members - years before Germany and decades before Spain and the other half of the current NATO members.
With big military and startegic position they are one of the most important countries for the alliance. Therefore they also have the cabability to start a circus like they did with Finland and especially with Sweden.
Just goes to show NATO doesn't really give a shot about democratic rights in its member countries.
Well it does and it doesn't. Turkey's trajectory was very different when it joined the alliance. It was one of the most democracy leaning Muslim countries. Also, having a common adversary (Russia) also helped to make them a member.
He does look pretty happy.
He looks too happy, that makes him suspicious.
Bet he's up to no good! Like having fun with people regardless off gender.
Damn happy people
A grumpy teacher-person said you can't have fun there.
The original joke is that gay, before being associated to homosexuality, was a synonym for happy.
Is that what you want? A country where people can walk around happy in public? Degenerates..
He looks too happy and to pretty, this did not bode well with Turkish police!
Unironically this is probably the case - feminine ones are excluded from military service for example (show proof to the doctor to escape service), whereas others are allowed.
This is what conservatives around the world want.
They want things much worst than that.
Apparently Turkish jurisprudence operates under the same logic as my high school did in the 90s
It's a classic Turkish move for undercover police to offer membership into the Pen 15 Club, then arrest them when they accept.
Well, there's another country that won't get my tourist dollars and will be talked bad about whenever anyone mentions it for the next 10 years
Sounds like another shit hole country I will avoid like the plague.
Any government / country entangled with religious nutjobs is to be avoided.
Including large swaths of the US. Florida is looking pretty sketch lately.
Exactly, no-one is immune. Religion is a cancer everywhere
Yes. There was a time when I. as a young man, wanted to at least visit the good ole US and A. Back then I didn't have the money. Now when I probably could afford it, I don't have the desire anymore.
There's still places worth visiting. Major cities like New York, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, even Atlanta is largely insulated from the rest of Georgia's nutjob influence.
If you'd rather be outdoors, the U.S. has some spectacular parks and wild spaces. Yosemite, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Arches, the Everglades, damn near anywhere in Alaska and Hawai'i...
I classify Turkey with Iran. Don't go there. Unfortunately my list for no-go is growing
I wouldn't be so hasty. The middle east, including Turkey, are some of the most culturally rich places to visit. In general, the Arab people are extremely hospitable. There has been civilization in the area for thousands of years and many fascinating antiquities remain. Turkey in particular has a longstanding secular tradition that was started a hundred years ago by Kemal Ataturk, only recently eroded by the religious conservatives. I wouldn't let a few thuggish people put you off.
I'd agree, but given that those few thuggish people in the Middle East seem to be setting policy that includes beating people for looking gay all the way up to beheadings, it might be beast to avoid it for now.
I don't think it makes sense to go anywhere completely whimsically. Times change and caution is prudent. Nobody is taking the silk road through Afghanistan any more but it was once a popular route, for example. However, I believe in the goodness of people. Most people just wanna be happy, kindness and respect goes a long way.
True, most people are willing to live and let live, but a lot of places have people where you won't know what you're dealing with until its too late. And I'm not even talking about the middle east specifically.
Neither Turks nor Iranians are Arabs
The problem is the thuggish people seem to be in charge these days. The people I met in Turkey when I visited long ago were indeed kind though.
We have Turkish people where I live. I don't need to go to a place that does that sorta thing.
I was telling my friend that I took my wife to the Carribbean.
Jamaica?
No, she came of her own accord.
Is France on that list too then? They tear gas people for having a contrary opinion to the state after all.
France is immune to that list, because I live there :/
Le Whataboutism
Every Pride Month this kinda shits happens in here.Sorry for the guy.
You can watch the videos he published on instagram telling his story here.
Well, AK Party is cancer. CHP should lead Turkey instead of corrupt Erdogan brains.
Is that web reliable? Can people go 20 days without sleeping? Simple Google search says record is 11 days. And he worries about detainees? Not gays? And yeah, the web description is "unbiased, well researched, independent news." You know they are bad when they do those kind of claims. Just criticizing the website, not the story. Commenting because that's how I'm doing my part. ><
You are correct. The title is misleading.
*He was detained for participating in an “eventful” Pride march.
*On the bus, some "Chechens" said he “looked like a gay."
According to him.
Berlin-based ArtıGerçek (the original, Turkish-language version of GercekNews) is a sensational-yet-prominent left-liberal Turkish-language newsletter. "GercekNews" is much more fresh and novice, uses an outdated UI of artigercek.com
https://lemmy.world/comment/1550725
While gay sex was never illegal there there's a couple of "public indecency" type laws which allow police to harass folks. Regarding public sentiment: If tomorrow you had a referendum whether civil unions should be introduced it would not be unlikely to pass, pro-marriage and pro-union are almost 50% with 30% undecided. And don't think that protesters for other stuff are treated more kindly.
Comparing the situation in Turkey to that in other Muslim countries, as done in the icky portions of the post replies, (except say Albania), is dishonest and misleading as fuck: Most problems arise not really because Turkey is a homophobic shithole, much less a particularly homophobic one, but because it's a shithole. Go ahead, try to outlaw alcohol in Turkey and you'll see how much arguing with the Quran is accepted there.
Bonus song (enable subtitles). Oh and someone has to explain to Turkish machos that bullying bottoms is totally gay.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=R2e2yHjc_mc
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I wouldn't say Turkey is a "shithole" — whatever that means. Turkey is in a serious culture war. Besides being ruled by an Islamic populist autocrat, and for that reason, it is one of the most "Islamophobic" countries in the world.
About 10 percent of the adult population and 30 percent of the gen-Zers are non-theistic. Most of them are anti-theistic, anti-Islamic, Stalinian atheists, who would completely agree with you on Turkey being a shithole, and want a "battle-ready" "democracy" in a cruel "battle" with Islam and Muslims.
While the trans surgeries is not affirmed by medicare and there is real stigma around it, trans people have every legal right, including official name and sex —yes, sex— change. And like Erdogan says, "the opposition is gay." They're for LGBT rights.
And, except alien ghettos and other no-go zones, it is not a "shithole" in the means of culture, security, safety, crime rates, and legal issues aren't about the "overlords."
So, it's a mixed bag. It is a terrible country economically, equalitically etc. But not completely unsalvagable. Turkey definitely can be "OK, fine" again.
--
"If tomorrow you had a referendum whether civil unions should be introduced it would not be unlikely to pass, pro-marriage and pro-union are almost 50% with 30% undecided."
This is not terrible. Check out how Ireland legalized gay marriage.
Why would anyone straight have a problem with anyone being gay? Are they all in the closet and think that what they feel is what everyone feels, and somehow the fault of gay people?
Well, to be “fair,” a significant portion of homophobes believe an invisible man in the sky said it was bad, according to some guys who knew some guys who knew a guy that died several hundred years before they wrote that into their “things the invisible man in the sky said” collection of fan fiction.
If it weren't for that, I would imagine it'd be advantageous for straight guys for there to be a gay guys: there'd be less competition for the women!
...except there are also gay women at roughly the same percentages.
Given how straight men think it's hot, yeah, I don't think they mind, so long as they get to watch.
I didn't get it until I started getting serious about weight loss (doing well btw :)) you develop a raw anger at people eating food that you can't enjoy. Of course I don't say anything. It's like that expression
If you are a liberal vegetarian you do not eat meat
If you are a conservative vegetarian no one gets to eat meat except for you.
You know, for one reason or another I won't bother you with I'm still in the WhatsApp group of my childhood friends.
They're a bunch of dicks, and tbh were I to meet them today I'd avoid them like the plague, but a couple of people in there are actual friends, so I stick around.
Anyway, the humour in the chat is that of many WhatsApp groups, jokes about women, sex and so on.
Boomers humour, so to speak, even though we're all X-Gen.
Sadly, 80% are jokes about gays, which can get fairly nasty at times.
A couple of weeks ago I actually said "hey, how come you guys always joke about gays and trans? Like, all the time? You know who does that? Closeted homosexuals".
Then I linked a few articles of random gay-bashing Republicans who were caught fiddling kids and were forced to admitting being gay.
"Rings a bell?"
I haven't seen a gay joke in the group since.
Pedo =/= homosexual. Kind of a fucked up suggestion on your part.
I think a mix of religion and being brought up with old-school morality. I'm a conservative who has no problems with homosexuals, in fact HIV/AIDS is one of the causes I really get behind because the history of it fascinates me (currently reading And The Band Played On, it's great).
Whenever I see homophobia or erroneous beliefs about them I try and correct them when I can.
Just dont go to such a shit country.
Years ago a friend's rock band was touring Europe and they landed a show at a club in Turkey About a month before the show the owner of the bar sent an email to the booking agent that said "We don't allow fags in our bar, Show canceled" The band had a video with a drag queen in it.
This is a fair decision for Turkey. You can't expect the owner to allow fags, it would bring in the entire country to compete with him in sucking some gay dick, and they just don't have enough seating for that.
Why would you even go to that shithole?
I would've guessed it was for looking hot.
It's the usual reason fundamentalists get violent toward women and gay men: they're aroused, but aren't allowed to express it.
I heard Turkey is a very restriced country
The title is misleading.
*He was detained for participating in an "eventful" Pride march.
*On the bus, Chechens said he "looked like a gay".
According to him.
EDIT: I did not claim that Turkish people are not homophobic. I did not minimize the injustice suffered by the Portuguese man. Why are you downvoting this?
He claims he didn't participate.
So do we believe the people who lock people up for being gay or the gay dude thrown in prison for 20 days for looking gay?
Turkey doesn't lock people up for being gay. Homosexuality was never criminalised. Public displays of affection are another issue but just being gay, no.
That doesn't line up with a single person's version of the story.
He says he was locked up for looking gay, Turkey claims they locked him up for being at a pride event.
Neither of those are public displays of affection.
Bootlicker
Just because someone is gay or got called gay doesn't mean that they've been arrested for being gay. Laws surrounding demonstrations are illiberal enough on their own to result in getting locked up.
It stated that he was arrested just for "looking" gay. I had to read way too far into the article to clarify that the police suspicions were actually correct.
Wtf
Another country that should never have been allowed into the EU. Fucking dipshits went from a secular nation to a religious hellhole.
Turkey is luckily not in the EU. Recently they tried to use their veto power in NATO to block Sweden's entry unless they're allowed to begin the process of joining the EU but that got shut down real quick.
I now look forward to seeing the Turkish and Portuguese Mafia settle this with a breakdancing competition over the Kabbalah hahaha
Before reading the headline, loocking at the tumbnail image, you & I thought ...
::: spoiler spoiler ... ! :::
I thought he should be beat up and arrested?!?
Are you serious ? He does look pretty pretty happy ...freaking gay even.