Then your next job calls this job to verify your employment, finds out you quit without notice, and withdraws the offer
Edit: I get that no one cares that what I'm saying is a real thing that happens in some companies. Just know that it is and tread carefully if you're thinking about quitting with no notice period
Edit: Also no, it is in no way illegal in the US for your previous employer to reveal a basic description of the terms of your separation to future/prospective employers
You really think they offered a position without already doing that, if they were going to verify employment at all?
Is this going to be their last job? Lots of employers verify the last 3 employers or last 5 years
Lots of employers don't verify at all, especially for low level stuff.
Companies are also unlikely to provide much more than the start and end date of employment. No point taking any risks, no benefit from warning another company.
To each their own I guess...I work in healthcare and this is a very real thing that has negatively impacted people I've known who have quit without notice
Edit: Who is downvoting this one?! Fuck those hospital staff, I guess
Have you never had a job that didn't even go on your resume? I worked part time at a video store for some extra cash while I was waiting for a career position to start. I gave the heads up when I was leaving but if the manager had been a dickbag or something I would've fucked them over with no ragerts. We have zero context for this (probably fake) text.
I live in Georgia USA my employment laws explicitly state I can be fired or quit for any reason or no reason. As much as that sucks, I could quit because I don't like my boss' new haircut and that's ironically more legally protected than me being fired for being bisexual.
Whether or not it's legal to quit or fire someone isn't the topic though, this is about your previous employer communicating your termination status to a prospective employer
I assumed this connection was obvious
I quit cuz of a haircut
I get a new job
employer calls old job
they cannot ask why or how I left because the law is I can leave for any and no reason
they cannot ask why or how I left because the law is I can leave for any and no reason
Just because you can legally quit for any reason at any time does not mean your prospective employer can't ask your previous employer why or how you left. These are 2 different things
If they misrepresent the method of your termination in any way you can potentially sue for defamation, so, yeah, they can say what they want as long as they want to get sued.
Sure, but all your previous employer has to do is be honest. If you tell your boss you quit effective immediately, that's "resignation without notice" at most companies. You can try to sue for defamation if this costs you a future job, but your previous employer has their documentation lined up and you will lose
I haven't the slightest clue why people are mass downvoting your real experience here. Within many career paths, everything you've said is true.
I haven’t the slightest clue why people are mass downvoting your real experience here.
Because although the obsequious attitude he's advocating for might be individually advantageous, it's damaging to society (i.e. workers' power, collectively) and sure as fuck shouldn't be encouraged!
No, that's ridiculous. It's not damaging to anyone. It's the reality of the serious career world, and if you want a good career in reality (vs a worker's revolution or whatever in your fantasy) it would be wise to listen.
References are a real thing. Employment history is a real thing. These are checked by HR and hiring managers for serious career jobs, when an applicant is being considered. I have received direct confirmation of this from 2 jobs where I was hired, from my references and former employers who told me that the new employer called them to ask about me.
That makes sense, although it would have been easier to understand (for me, at the very least) if someone commented that right away after downvoting
Original commenter who has been downvoted to hell here. I'vs spent half my life as a front-line worker and half my life in management, and in management I fight like hell for my people in the face of the greedy corporate bullshit we're handed down from on high.
That said, if you're going to be on my healthcare staff, I and all your colleagues need to be able to trust you. If you've demonstrated a pattern of quitting without notice, to me that demonstrates a lack of planning and/or frustration tolerance, and that makes me hesitant to trust you.
I get lots of people aren't working in jobs that aren't as high stakes as healthcare though
I'm a manager. No, I don't care. Agencies will because they want to see you a service. But even they don't go as far as more than 1. 2 references are rare.
I've dealt with plenty of applications and agencies. I don't think it's an insignificant sample size and experience.
I'm not talking about references though. I'm also a manager, I've done tons of references, and most are glowing. I'm talking about employment verification, which HR often handles totally separate from the hiring manager. Obviously this is going to vary based on organization and policy, and the entire concept seems deeply unpopular here lol
Employment verification isn't allowed to answer personal questions which would include the text above. HR contacts HR with the question, "Was this person employed on X through X dates." The reply is yes or no. The manager doesn't get involved.
Employment verification can absolutely include a description of the separation, eg "resignation with notice," "resignation without notice," or "terminated for cause." Lots of people saying this can't be said, but no one has cited any source because it's false
no one has cited any source
What is your source?
Quora has verified CEO's and Professors saying only dates and position are given out by HR.
Your link isn't relevant because it is about being fired, not quitting.
But from your link:
"Many organizations have policies that limit their staff to providing only dates of employment and job titles when inquiries are made about past employees. Others may be more willing to share information with prospective employers."
So your statement only applies to your situation as your link confirms.
I hired people too. In only one situation where any ex employee was caught stealing from a client did I ever share anything negative. And that was only because the company who called was also a former customer.
I like how you end your post with an example of you doing the thing you're saying companies don't do lol
Of course this varies by organization and policy, but it's a real thing that many companies do. "Terminated with cause" aka fired is just one of several separation categories companies may share
I wasn't HR. It wasn't HR calling HR to verify employment. It was a former customer calling for a reference. So yes it can happen that if that OP used the company as a reference, the former manager could take the call and say, "He quit without 2 weeks notice." It isn't standard as your own link confirmed. But that's not hr verifying employment.
"Terminated with cause”
This wasn't terminated with cause, fired or anything like that. The post is about an employee who quit. They are allowed to quit.
I don't know what you're arguing against here, my entire point is that there are some companies that communicate separation status by policy, whether that's "terminated for cause," "resigned without notice," or "resigned with notice," and that "resigned without notice" can negatively impact job opportunities at some companies.
…why would you quit before having the offer in-hand and signed by both parties, which typically occurs after such checks are done?
They gave notice.
Depending on the contract or location, this is more than enough.
Two weeks is often no more than a courtesy, and not a requirement. If the company fires you, they're unlikely to afford you that courtesy.
But with layoffs sometimes they do give you advance notice. It all depends I guess.
It seems like this greatly depends on your manager, rather than a company. Some will try to offer other positions in the company which will count as a layoff for the tops, it seems, but a worker will still be there, some will tell you in the last minute
That's why you get a job before quitting the old one, lol
In the United States, that would be illegal. The only information that a company is allowed to give is whether a person is employed or not. Anything else will open them up to legal troubles. So you're right that this conversation could take place, but it wouldn't, and if it did, the former employee can make bank in court for damages.
E: turns out I was mistaken on this as it's what I've been told many times over. However, on a state to state basis, and specifically in my state, information shared is restricted to being work related. I think a nasty text isn't work related, but it could be said that there wasn't a notice given. IANAL, so ignore everything I wrote and don't spread as fact. Be better than me.
This is false.
Former employers can answer a narrow set of questions without opening themselves up to liability. Among them:
dates of employment
documented departure reason
eligible for rehire
status of non-competes
I'm guessing somewhere between the departure reason and "no, we wouldn't rehire this person" the new employer might have some additional questions for the prospective employee.
Some companies deserve to have you quit without notice, fuck 'em, but they are allowed to report some facts to other HR departments who ask.
I'm straight up about to go in and out my employer on notice. Been 9 years, I've had enough. I'm not trying to screw them, so I'm going to give them an opportunity to hire replacements for me before I go. The ball will be in their court.
This was mostly in response to your last paragraph. Not really related, but it feels good to more or less say it out loud.
Dude, you just made this up. Prove to me otherwise
They're also allowed to say if they would re-hire you, which they almost certainly wouldn't after that text.
Lol where did you pull this theory out of?
I mean it's also illegal to get fired for discussing wages with coworkers, but then you get "fired for poor performance/attitude." They don't have to say they did anything wrong. Same here, 2 managers "talking" aren't going to go out of their way to try to get the other in trouble. They'll be happy for the info and not say anything.
They can make bank if they knew. The company can just take back their offer for any reason and they don't have to tell the incoming employee why they did that. You think an HR is going to tell you that they talked to your last employer? No
Except that's not how this works if you were ever in a position to actually verify employment. Every company ever will specifically tell their employees to just confirm whether or not the person used to work there and that's it.
Anything else opens the company up to a lawsuit for slander. The employee is already gone. No company is going to risk a lawsuit just to warn another company of a bad employee.
The large hospital system I used to work for absolutely communicates termination status to other employers, one of those is "resignation without notice," and I knew 2 people who had job offers rescinded other places after verification
If someone quits because of unsafe working conditions, they would be grouped in the "resignation without notice"
I'm sure they have a lot of other bullshit reasons to not hire people too.
Most jobs call to verify before they give your offer.
When you get a good job, a good boss doesn't care about that shit.
A good boss knows that this will impact the rest of the team, and in many cases require discussions about covering shifts, rehiring new people and rebuilding relationships.
Don't list it in your previous jobs. Problem solved
"What can you tell us about this hole in your resume"
"I was fuckin' bitches." lol
Are you 12 years old lol
No fuck u, I'm 13 noob. Git rekt fam lol
...ahhh to be a kid again 🤣
"Taking care of my sick mother ..." stops them real quick.
Love all the "interview hacks" in here :)
Oh damn this is a good one!
"That's when I went to Yale"
"I yust got out last week!"
I was self employed doing x y or z
Get the best sounding friend you know and let them know what you're doing. Say you did landscaping or wallpaper work for someone and give them that friends number doesn't even have to be their real name you give them and boom, you just verified your work history. Obviously depends on what you are applying for you could say computer work or a number of many other things. If you do work like that for someone you're private contracted so they have no way to prove that you didn't do it
In America, most companies only supply the dates you worked and sometimes salary. On a rare occasion if you are rehireable.
That’s about it. It’s all done through an automated service.
I had one prior employer who wouldn’t even do that. So I have to supply a ten years old pay stub to prove I was employed
Thank you for attempting to bring facts to what looks to be a feelings party - people could literally end up homeless by following this pattern, e.g. if the new job fell through and the one after that checks both previous references, then all the old manager has to do is send that screenshot.
Karma exists, and yes corporations are evil SOBs but that's no reason for us to be so likewise.
And ofc it's a joke meme, but... is it tho? And anyway why downvote you even so? Now I too will accept those alongside you, and I suggest we treat it as a badge of honor at this point, I will hold fast to what is true regardless.
Then your next job calls this job to verify your employment, finds out you quit without notice, and withdraws the offer
Edit: I get that no one cares that what I'm saying is a real thing that happens in some companies. Just know that it is and tread carefully if you're thinking about quitting with no notice period
Edit: Also no, it is in no way illegal in the US for your previous employer to reveal a basic description of the terms of your separation to future/prospective employers
You really think they offered a position without already doing that, if they were going to verify employment at all?
Is this going to be their last job? Lots of employers verify the last 3 employers or last 5 years
Lots of employers don't verify at all, especially for low level stuff.
Companies are also unlikely to provide much more than the start and end date of employment. No point taking any risks, no benefit from warning another company.
To each their own I guess...I work in healthcare and this is a very real thing that has negatively impacted people I've known who have quit without notice
Edit: Who is downvoting this one?! Fuck those hospital staff, I guess
Have you never had a job that didn't even go on your resume? I worked part time at a video store for some extra cash while I was waiting for a career position to start. I gave the heads up when I was leaving but if the manager had been a dickbag or something I would've fucked them over with no ragerts. We have zero context for this (probably fake) text.
I live in Georgia USA my employment laws explicitly state I can be fired or quit for any reason or no reason. As much as that sucks, I could quit because I don't like my boss' new haircut and that's ironically more legally protected than me being fired for being bisexual.
Whether or not it's legal to quit or fire someone isn't the topic though, this is about your previous employer communicating your termination status to a prospective employer
I assumed this connection was obvious
Just because you can legally quit for any reason at any time does not mean your prospective employer can't ask your previous employer why or how you left. These are 2 different things
If they misrepresent the method of your termination in any way you can potentially sue for defamation, so, yeah, they can say what they want as long as they want to get sued.
Sure, but all your previous employer has to do is be honest. If you tell your boss you quit effective immediately, that's "resignation without notice" at most companies. You can try to sue for defamation if this costs you a future job, but your previous employer has their documentation lined up and you will lose
I haven't the slightest clue why people are mass downvoting your real experience here. Within many career paths, everything you've said is true.
Because although the obsequious attitude he's advocating for might be individually advantageous, it's damaging to society (i.e. workers' power, collectively) and sure as fuck shouldn't be encouraged!
No, that's ridiculous. It's not damaging to anyone. It's the reality of the serious career world, and if you want a good career in reality (vs a worker's revolution or whatever in your fantasy) it would be wise to listen.
References are a real thing. Employment history is a real thing. These are checked by HR and hiring managers for serious career jobs, when an applicant is being considered. I have received direct confirmation of this from 2 jobs where I was hired, from my references and former employers who told me that the new employer called them to ask about me.
That makes sense, although it would have been easier to understand (for me, at the very least) if someone commented that right away after downvoting
Original commenter who has been downvoted to hell here. I'vs spent half my life as a front-line worker and half my life in management, and in management I fight like hell for my people in the face of the greedy corporate bullshit we're handed down from on high.
That said, if you're going to be on my healthcare staff, I and all your colleagues need to be able to trust you. If you've demonstrated a pattern of quitting without notice, to me that demonstrates a lack of planning and/or frustration tolerance, and that makes me hesitant to trust you.
I get lots of people aren't working in jobs that aren't as high stakes as healthcare though
It's a very real thing in many real career paths. It's also relevant to the Golden Rule; do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If your job was decent and they treat you OK, treat them decently in return. That's how you get good references and advance your career.
The alternative is to keep having shitty jobs that make you want to leave without giving notice I guess.
You are getting downvoted because the lemmitard hive associates your name with a downvote. Nothing to do with what you said.
I'm a manager. No, I don't care. Agencies will because they want to see you a service. But even they don't go as far as more than 1. 2 references are rare.
I've dealt with plenty of applications and agencies. I don't think it's an insignificant sample size and experience.
I'm not talking about references though. I'm also a manager, I've done tons of references, and most are glowing. I'm talking about employment verification, which HR often handles totally separate from the hiring manager. Obviously this is going to vary based on organization and policy, and the entire concept seems deeply unpopular here lol
Employment verification isn't allowed to answer personal questions which would include the text above. HR contacts HR with the question, "Was this person employed on X through X dates." The reply is yes or no. The manager doesn't get involved.
Employment verification can absolutely include a description of the separation, eg "resignation with notice," "resignation without notice," or "terminated for cause." Lots of people saying this can't be said, but no one has cited any source because it's false
What is your source?
Quora has verified CEO's and Professors saying only dates and position are given out by HR.
Here's the first hit I got on Bing™. My real source is a decade of experience hiring people.
Your link isn't relevant because it is about being fired, not quitting.
But from your link:
"Many organizations have policies that limit their staff to providing only dates of employment and job titles when inquiries are made about past employees. Others may be more willing to share information with prospective employers."
So your statement only applies to your situation as your link confirms.
I hired people too. In only one situation where any ex employee was caught stealing from a client did I ever share anything negative. And that was only because the company who called was also a former customer.
I like how you end your post with an example of you doing the thing you're saying companies don't do lol
Of course this varies by organization and policy, but it's a real thing that many companies do. "Terminated with cause" aka fired is just one of several separation categories companies may share
I wasn't HR. It wasn't HR calling HR to verify employment. It was a former customer calling for a reference. So yes it can happen that if that OP used the company as a reference, the former manager could take the call and say, "He quit without 2 weeks notice." It isn't standard as your own link confirmed. But that's not hr verifying employment.
"Terminated with cause”
This wasn't terminated with cause, fired or anything like that. The post is about an employee who quit. They are allowed to quit.
I don't know what you're arguing against here, my entire point is that there are some companies that communicate separation status by policy, whether that's "terminated for cause," "resigned without notice," or "resigned with notice," and that "resigned without notice" can negatively impact job opportunities at some companies.
I believe they can also ask the question “is this employee eligible for rehire?”
You're simping for the bourgeoisie in !leftymemes. WTF did you expect?
Guess I'll retreat to my hole and let the proletariat continuing giving each other tips on worsening their spiral into destitution
…why would you quit before having the offer in-hand and signed by both parties, which typically occurs after such checks are done?
They gave notice.
Depending on the contract or location, this is more than enough.
Two weeks is often no more than a courtesy, and not a requirement. If the company fires you, they're unlikely to afford you that courtesy.
But with layoffs sometimes they do give you advance notice. It all depends I guess.
It seems like this greatly depends on your manager, rather than a company. Some will try to offer other positions in the company which will count as a layoff for the tops, it seems, but a worker will still be there, some will tell you in the last minute
That's why you get a job before quitting the old one, lol
In the United States, that would be illegal. The only information that a company is allowed to give is whether a person is employed or not. Anything else will open them up to legal troubles. So you're right that this conversation could take place, but it wouldn't, and if it did, the former employee can make bank in court for damages.
E: turns out I was mistaken on this as it's what I've been told many times over. However, on a state to state basis, and specifically in my state, information shared is restricted to being work related. I think a nasty text isn't work related, but it could be said that there wasn't a notice given. IANAL, so ignore everything I wrote and don't spread as fact. Be better than me.
This is false.
Former employers can answer a narrow set of questions without opening themselves up to liability. Among them:
I'm guessing somewhere between the departure reason and "no, we wouldn't rehire this person" the new employer might have some additional questions for the prospective employee.
Some companies deserve to have you quit without notice, fuck 'em, but they are allowed to report some facts to other HR departments who ask.
I'm straight up about to go in and out my employer on notice. Been 9 years, I've had enough. I'm not trying to screw them, so I'm going to give them an opportunity to hire replacements for me before I go. The ball will be in their court.
This was mostly in response to your last paragraph. Not really related, but it feels good to more or less say it out loud.
Dude, you just made this up. Prove to me otherwise
They're also allowed to say if they would re-hire you, which they almost certainly wouldn't after that text.
Lol where did you pull this theory out of?
I mean it's also illegal to get fired for discussing wages with coworkers, but then you get "fired for poor performance/attitude." They don't have to say they did anything wrong. Same here, 2 managers "talking" aren't going to go out of their way to try to get the other in trouble. They'll be happy for the info and not say anything.
They can make bank if they knew. The company can just take back their offer for any reason and they don't have to tell the incoming employee why they did that. You think an HR is going to tell you that they talked to your last employer? No
Except that's not how this works if you were ever in a position to actually verify employment. Every company ever will specifically tell their employees to just confirm whether or not the person used to work there and that's it.
Anything else opens the company up to a lawsuit for slander. The employee is already gone. No company is going to risk a lawsuit just to warn another company of a bad employee.
The large hospital system I used to work for absolutely communicates termination status to other employers, one of those is "resignation without notice," and I knew 2 people who had job offers rescinded other places after verification
If someone quits because of unsafe working conditions, they would be grouped in the "resignation without notice"
I'm sure they have a lot of other bullshit reasons to not hire people too.
Most jobs call to verify before they give your offer.
When you get a good job, a good boss doesn't care about that shit.
A good boss knows that this will impact the rest of the team, and in many cases require discussions about covering shifts, rehiring new people and rebuilding relationships.
Don't list it in your previous jobs. Problem solved
"What can you tell us about this hole in your resume"
"I was fuckin' bitches." lol
Are you 12 years old lol
No fuck u, I'm 13 noob. Git rekt fam lol
...ahhh to be a kid again 🤣
"Taking care of my sick mother ..." stops them real quick.
Love all the "interview hacks" in here :)
Oh damn this is a good one!
"That's when I went to Yale"
"I yust got out last week!"
I was self employed doing x y or z
Get the best sounding friend you know and let them know what you're doing. Say you did landscaping or wallpaper work for someone and give them that friends number doesn't even have to be their real name you give them and boom, you just verified your work history. Obviously depends on what you are applying for you could say computer work or a number of many other things. If you do work like that for someone you're private contracted so they have no way to prove that you didn't do it
In America, most companies only supply the dates you worked and sometimes salary. On a rare occasion if you are rehireable.
That’s about it. It’s all done through an automated service.
I had one prior employer who wouldn’t even do that. So I have to supply a ten years old pay stub to prove I was employed
Thank you for attempting to bring facts to what looks to be a feelings party - people could literally end up homeless by following this pattern, e.g. if the new job fell through and the one after that checks both previous references, then all the old manager has to do is send that screenshot.
Karma exists, and yes corporations are evil SOBs but that's no reason for us to be so likewise.
And ofc it's a joke meme, but... is it tho? And anyway why downvote you even so? Now I too will accept those alongside you, and I suggest we treat it as a badge of honor at this point, I will hold fast to what is true regardless.