Are you sure? I know someone on Facebook that seems to think YouTube videos are irrefutable evidence of pretty much whatever they claim.
yeah, i saw this youtube video about how they’re very unreliable
The like/dislike ratio used to be a poll of sorts.
i stand by my prior statement
He discusses actual polls you can look up? This isn't a video just saying things it has data
videos that mention data i could look up is exactly what i’m talking about…
gimme the data, not some schmoo talking about how they misunderstand some data….
there are infinite, strongly opinionated, youtube videos for every conclusion that inaccurately represents some sort of data….
By that logic any article from a news distributor is garbage. Which while true, you can find the original story from a new wire. Sourcing points is key but having someone write a table of authorities when they can link a video with their thoughts and data is fine
Nope, if it's a youtube video then it's garbage on youtube that I'm not gonna watch. A link to a reputable news organization's website says a hell of a lot more about its credibility, every time.
apt username
In the first minute of the video he talks about the pool done by Echelon Insights where they actually checked the exact same people.
The real headline is that 20% of Republicans think so. Shocking.
"I think Trump should drop his campaign. But if he doesn't, I'm still voting for him, because I'll vote for that felon over any liberal"
Biden crime family are felons too, they just hid behind the law by only doing legal felonies!
... or something. I'm not batshit insane enough to understand the actual thought process.
That actually sounds about right, it's aligned with what my racist family says!
Hunter Biden has a criminally large schlong tho.
Trump’s unfavorability among Republicans has hovered around 20% for a while now.
The last poll considered in that link occurred on March 2-4. So the results seem outdated in regards to the recent convictions.
Yeah its going always takes a few weeks for news to become digested and show up in the polling. Always longer than the newsies and wonks think it should; 3-6 weeks some times.
yeah, that's incredibly low unfavorability.
20% of Republicans in the primaries were still voting for Nikki Haley, likely as a protest vote, even long-after Nikki dropped out.
So this is all within expectations. As usual, the Trump delusional refuses to accept reality. Its up to the rest of the country to band together and vote against him.
still voting for Nikki Haley
If Mr Trump eventually can't run, Ms Haley is the presumptive candidate, having won a primary somewhere. And it's too soon to launch another bid by anyone else.
Genius, really.
Although that tracks with the republicans that didn’t like him before the trial.
Narrator: “He didn’t.”
Yeah there is ZERO chance he willingly drops out. Getting re-elected is his only path out of the hole he keeps digging deeper. Well that or leaving the country for good and living out his days in Russia.
That would be a short stay in Russia. Putin doesn't keep useless assets around.
edward snowden begs to differ
Guarantee Snowden is still a valuable asset. He actually has a brain & internal working knowledge of the NSA.
Donald isn't a useless asset for Putin. He directs a large cult of Trumpanzees in America.
Yeah, he'd lose a ton of that power if he was hiding out in Russia.
Eh, he'd probably set Trump up in a gilded cage and forget about him. It'd be a short stay because Trump is old, eats McDonalds, and doesn't exercise. Only the McDonalds part would change because they don't operate in Russia anymore.
Now I’m picturing Putin ordering McDonalds from abroad and going through some convoluted process to get it imported
So, basically, the conviction has changed nothing for this poll.
It affected independent voters more than anything.
nearly half
Half of what? I see it's voters, so, the democrats? Wow, really cool journalism, who could have seen that one coming!
Having read the article, that 'half of voters' includes 20% of republicans, 80% of democrats and 52% of independents.
That's a bit more meaningful than your flippant 'voters = democrats'
That is actually notable
Republicans are not half of the population. They use gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the electoral college to have an outsized influence.
They do, but:
The partisan identification of registered voters is now evenly split between the two major parties: 49% of registered voters are Democrats or lean to the Democratic Party, and a nearly identical share – 48% – are Republicans or lean to the Republican Party.
Near as I can figure, a lot of people who only passingly pay attention politics assumed he would have to quit if convicted.
He's simply being factored out of the equation by them
If anyone is factored out of the equation, it's those low-information voters who don't follow the news.
Why not cite how many people were polled?
I wonder who would replace him?
Could be one reason we haven't seen a running mate yet. That would give them a backup plan if they were already rallied behind somebody else.
Though I suppose equally well, no one had wanted to be committed to partnering with him before they saw how these trials played out.
Haley.
Young, female, minority, well known, and at least somewhat sane compared to the rest of the crazies in the field. And I'm not saying I agree with her policies, but if the election were to be held today, I think Haley would beat Biden easily. Again, this is not an opinion on either candidate or their policies; given the current political climate and especially considering Biden's continued support for Israel and the genocide they're conducting, I think Haley would be able to pick up at least some of the disenfranchised Biden voters and win by a pretty good margin.
Haley literally sharpied the words “finish them” on materiel being sent to Israel. Anyone swearing off Biden over his Israel policy is sure as shit not gonna support Haley. Or who knows, maybe they would, I think a third of them are cosplaying, another third accelerationists, and the remaining third severely misguided idealists.
Haley literally sharpied the words “finish them” on materiel being sent to Israel.
Go back over the past couple of months. Take a look at how many people in this sub alone have advocated voting for Trump over Biden because of Israel? How many people in states like Minnesota are threatening to do the same thing? For reasons that I still completely fail to understand, the number of people who claim to be willing to vote for Trump (or at least stay home, acknowledging that it would indirectly help him get to office anyway) is above zero. And even if 90% of them have absolutely no intention of following through and just want to "send a message", the 10% that do may very well be enough in some of these swing states where Biden won by only ~10k votes, give or take.
Even with Haley's sharpie (What is it about Republicans that makes them think just taking a sharpie to something actually changes anything?), she's still at worst a "more sane" version of Trump, which may be enough to make some people who would have otherwise held their noses and vote for Biden vote for Haley instead.
Fair points all around, except I can’t say the “acknowledging it” part has matched my experience. As I’ve seen it, they seem to be more content to shove their heads in the sand and pretend FPTP isn’t real and that the system isn’t set up to keep anyone without a [D] or [R] nomination from being electorally viable. Like, I tend to be very laissez-faire with political discussions if people aren’t using hate speech or blatantly acting in bad faith, but that crowd always has me teetering on the edge of reporting their comments for spreading misinformation.
Predicable Republican Fuckery 2024!
She's terrible, but far more sane than Trump. I hope it works.
Republicans largely applauded her hateful act.
but if the election were to be held today, I think Haley would beat Biden easily.
Are you taking into account the write-in votes for Trump from people who think tuh meedya is lying to them about him being dead?
There aren't enough of them in the swing states that would matter.
Most of them are going to vote for whoever has the (R) after the name. Only a select portion of them are going to be so far down the MAGA hole that they'd write in Trump instead. Haley would pick up the majority of (R) votes, along with (IMO) enough of the independents to nullify the MAGA morons and get her over the finish line.
The same half that believe in a flat earth or the same half that believe in horse paste?
lol strong doubt.
I'm a registered Democrat. I would not support him dropping out of the election even if he's in jail.
There is no established rule that says you can not run for president as a convicted felon.
What I am in favor of is people not being fucking idiots and voting for a convicted felon to be president. Just as the same as I'm in favor of people not voting for a literal farm animal to be president - it's just moronic. I'm also no in favor of people voting for anyone who's failed to present themselves as a public figure who gives a flying fuck about the American People or the United States Constitution or someone who may be a rapist or may be a bigot or may not be able to speak or read comprehensively. Why the fuck are we stuck with this guy as an option? Out of 330 million people, this is the best we can do?
Edit: I mean, how is it that so many people are dummies?
people are fairly split on the Trump case overall with 47% saying the charges against Trump were politically motivated
There are certainly very dumb people that support trump. There seems to be a willful ignorance amongst his base. That said, dismissing them all as "dummies" hides the really scary problem: they aren't necessarily dumb; they are brainwashed.
Imagine if all you heard was how great Trump was, how much he's accomplished, how badly Democrats want to bring him down, how they are setting him up,that Biden is the reason for these prosecutions, and never hearing any of the facts about the cases or anything remotely negative about Trump.
If you lived your entire life main-lining conservative talk radio, YouTube conservative conspiracy theorists, Fox News, news Maxx...and then have social media magnifying those views by feeding you all the things you already want to Believe (because you've been listening to this shit for years). Now Facebook is saying all of your friends think this way too.
Then you have republican "leadership" lying to you or misrepresenting almost everything because they can't afford to lose their clicks or have news Maxx call them a Democrat plant. They are doing everything they can to stay in power even if it means they have no ethics or values. So they'll sit there and weasel out of having any sort of backbone against obvious corruption or criminal activity.
And because of all that, people who grew up believing the news wouldn't straight up lie or that their party has integrity, ethics, and values...they end up believing what they hear. It's what their friends say on Facebook. It's a massive groupthink.
When people say it's like a cult, it truly is. They need to be deprogrammed. You know how hard it is to break people from their religion? That's how hard it's going to be to reel back Maga people.
But from their absolutely misguided, misinformed foundation, they are acting rationally. If everything they hear on a daily basis is true, of course they are fired up.
This trick is: how do we reach them? How can we even start reeling them back in?
We need things like this guilty verdict. We need actual leadership in the Republican party to stand up for what's right and admonish his behavior. A group of them need to do it together so they can't be picked off like injured gazelle by news outlets whose business is outrage.
I agree with you. I recognize my choice of words didn't hit the nail on the head and I failed to take the time to find the right word(s).
Whatever the word is for people who are easily brainwashed and find comfort in their echo chamber despite being informed of the facts by historically reputable organizations - those people.
Because despite liberals also living in their own echo chambers, most of them can still observe reality and accept that Biden also has his shortcomings. They can also look at what's going on with Hunter and agree with the reasonable Republicans and say whatever wrongs he did, he should be held accountable. They can judge him for what he's doing / not doing in Gaza and protest him (as they should). If Joe Biden did one percent of what Trump has done in his life, Democrats would turn on him, not defend him. I'm still not forgiving him for the 1994 crime bill and don't think he should ever have been elected president. I was excited to discover a progressive voice in TYT in the mid 2010s but I've kept a level head and realized they were turning into extremists.
Brainwashing, propaganda, advertising; I don't understand how they work. I worked as an art director in advertising and I had to quit because of all the manipulation. They all treat people like rats hanging a big chunk of stinky cheese in front of them.
I'm a pretty dumb person but I vividly recall, as an eight year old in catechism class, thinking all religions claim to be the "true" religion and realizing that there was no such thing as god and it was ll bullshit. How was I, as an eight year old, able to break free from the cult while most grown adults fail to see through it all? That's the part I don't get and I wrongly chose "dummy" to describe these people.
Yea, I definitely understand what you are saying. I dont get those people either. Its frustrating and even heartbreaking because they are so misled--but are also so easily "misleadable". Its hard to not fault them for it; its hard not to call them dumb.
I guess historically we called those people "suckers" or "rubes" -- which still may not accurately reflect that they can be very smart people (or even critical thinkers) in most other aspects.
My question to them was: How does “dehumanizing” work to begin with? If we’re wired to be social empathetic creatures, what is so powerful about these statements to unwire us?
The entire story is missing right between these two paragraphs.
Why are dehumanization and violence so closely connected? As social creatures, we’re wired to empathize with our fellow human beings, and we get uncomfortable when we see someone suffering.
Once someone is dehumanized, we usually deny them the consideration, compassion and empathy that we typically give other people. It can relax our instinctive aversion to aggression and violence.
And nearly half were never going to vote for him anyway. I want a poll of who was previously voting for him, and now will not.
https://abcnews.go.com/538/trumps-guilty-verdict-impact-2024-presidential-election/story?id=110650906
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
This one talks about it: https://youtu.be/uMVnhJEDQtg
youtube videos are not polls
Are you sure? I know someone on Facebook that seems to think YouTube videos are irrefutable evidence of pretty much whatever they claim.
yeah, i saw this youtube video about how they’re very unreliable
The like/dislike ratio used to be a poll of sorts.
i stand by my prior statement
He discusses actual polls you can look up? This isn't a video just saying things it has data
videos that mention data i could look up is exactly what i’m talking about…
gimme the data, not some schmoo talking about how they misunderstand some data….
there are infinite, strongly opinionated, youtube videos for every conclusion that inaccurately represents some sort of data….
By that logic any article from a news distributor is garbage. Which while true, you can find the original story from a new wire. Sourcing points is key but having someone write a table of authorities when they can link a video with their thoughts and data is fine
Nope, if it's a youtube video then it's garbage on youtube that I'm not gonna watch. A link to a reputable news organization's website says a hell of a lot more about its credibility, every time.
apt username
In the first minute of the video he talks about the pool done by Echelon Insights where they actually checked the exact same people.
The real headline is that 20% of Republicans think so. Shocking.
"I think Trump should drop his campaign. But if he doesn't, I'm still voting for him, because I'll vote for that felon over any liberal"
Biden crime family are felons too, they just hid behind the law by only doing legal felonies!
... or something. I'm not batshit insane enough to understand the actual thought process.
That actually sounds about right, it's aligned with what my racist family says!
Hunter Biden has a criminally large schlong tho.
Trump’s unfavorability among Republicans has hovered around 20% for a while now.
The last poll considered in that link occurred on March 2-4. So the results seem outdated in regards to the recent convictions.
Yeah its going always takes a few weeks for news to become digested and show up in the polling. Always longer than the newsies and wonks think it should; 3-6 weeks some times.
yeah, that's incredibly low unfavorability.
20% of Republicans in the primaries were still voting for Nikki Haley, likely as a protest vote, even long-after Nikki dropped out.
So this is all within expectations. As usual, the Trump delusional refuses to accept reality. Its up to the rest of the country to band together and vote against him.
If Mr Trump eventually can't run, Ms Haley is the presumptive candidate, having won a primary somewhere. And it's too soon to launch another bid by anyone else.
Genius, really.
Although that tracks with the republicans that didn’t like him before the trial.
Narrator: “He didn’t.”
Yeah there is ZERO chance he willingly drops out. Getting re-elected is his only path out of the hole he keeps digging deeper. Well that or leaving the country for good and living out his days in Russia.
That would be a short stay in Russia. Putin doesn't keep useless assets around.
edward snowden begs to differ
Guarantee Snowden is still a valuable asset. He actually has a brain & internal working knowledge of the NSA.
Donald isn't a useless asset for Putin. He directs a large cult of Trumpanzees in America.
Yeah, he'd lose a ton of that power if he was hiding out in Russia.
Eh, he'd probably set Trump up in a gilded cage and forget about him. It'd be a short stay because Trump is old, eats McDonalds, and doesn't exercise. Only the McDonalds part would change because they don't operate in Russia anymore.
Now I’m picturing Putin ordering McDonalds from abroad and going through some convoluted process to get it imported
So, basically, the conviction has changed nothing for this poll.
It affected independent voters more than anything.
Half of what? I see it's voters, so, the democrats? Wow, really cool journalism, who could have seen that one coming!
Having read the article, that 'half of voters' includes 20% of republicans, 80% of democrats and 52% of independents.
That's a bit more meaningful than your flippant 'voters = democrats'
That is actually notable
Republicans are not half of the population. They use gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the electoral college to have an outsized influence.
They do, but:
Source: Pew Research
Near as I can figure, a lot of people who only passingly pay attention politics assumed he would have to quit if convicted.
He's simply being factored out of the equation by them
If anyone is factored out of the equation, it's those low-information voters who don't follow the news.
Why not cite how many people were polled?
I wonder who would replace him?
Could be one reason we haven't seen a running mate yet. That would give them a backup plan if they were already rallied behind somebody else.
Though I suppose equally well, no one had wanted to be committed to partnering with him before they saw how these trials played out.
Haley.
Young, female, minority, well known, and at least somewhat sane compared to the rest of the crazies in the field. And I'm not saying I agree with her policies, but if the election were to be held today, I think Haley would beat Biden easily. Again, this is not an opinion on either candidate or their policies; given the current political climate and especially considering Biden's continued support for Israel and the genocide they're conducting, I think Haley would be able to pick up at least some of the disenfranchised Biden voters and win by a pretty good margin.
Haley literally sharpied the words “finish them” on materiel being sent to Israel. Anyone swearing off Biden over his Israel policy is sure as shit not gonna support Haley. Or who knows, maybe they would, I think a third of them are cosplaying, another third accelerationists, and the remaining third severely misguided idealists.
Go back over the past couple of months. Take a look at how many people in this sub alone have advocated voting for Trump over Biden because of Israel? How many people in states like Minnesota are threatening to do the same thing? For reasons that I still completely fail to understand, the number of people who claim to be willing to vote for Trump (or at least stay home, acknowledging that it would indirectly help him get to office anyway) is above zero. And even if 90% of them have absolutely no intention of following through and just want to "send a message", the 10% that do may very well be enough in some of these swing states where Biden won by only ~10k votes, give or take.
Even with Haley's sharpie (What is it about Republicans that makes them think just taking a sharpie to something actually changes anything?), she's still at worst a "more sane" version of Trump, which may be enough to make some people who would have otherwise held their noses and vote for Biden vote for Haley instead.
Fair points all around, except I can’t say the “acknowledging it” part has matched my experience. As I’ve seen it, they seem to be more content to shove their heads in the sand and pretend FPTP isn’t real and that the system isn’t set up to keep anyone without a [D] or [R] nomination from being electorally viable. Like, I tend to be very laissez-faire with political discussions if people aren’t using hate speech or blatantly acting in bad faith, but that crowd always has me teetering on the edge of reporting their comments for spreading misinformation.
Predicable Republican Fuckery 2024!
She's terrible, but far more sane than Trump. I hope it works.
Republicans largely applauded her hateful act.
Are you taking into account the write-in votes for Trump from people who think tuh meedya is lying to them about him being dead?
There aren't enough of them in the swing states that would matter.
Most of them are going to vote for whoever has the (R) after the name. Only a select portion of them are going to be so far down the MAGA hole that they'd write in Trump instead. Haley would pick up the majority of (R) votes, along with (IMO) enough of the independents to nullify the MAGA morons and get her over the finish line.
The same half that believe in a flat earth or the same half that believe in horse paste?
lol strong doubt.
I'm a registered Democrat. I would not support him dropping out of the election even if he's in jail.
There is no established rule that says you can not run for president as a convicted felon.
What I am in favor of is people not being fucking idiots and voting for a convicted felon to be president. Just as the same as I'm in favor of people not voting for a literal farm animal to be president - it's just moronic. I'm also no in favor of people voting for anyone who's failed to present themselves as a public figure who gives a flying fuck about the American People or the United States Constitution or someone who may be a rapist or may be a bigot or may not be able to speak or read comprehensively. Why the fuck are we stuck with this guy as an option? Out of 330 million people, this is the best we can do?
Edit: I mean, how is it that so many people are dummies?
There are certainly very dumb people that support trump. There seems to be a willful ignorance amongst his base. That said, dismissing them all as "dummies" hides the really scary problem: they aren't necessarily dumb; they are brainwashed.
Imagine if all you heard was how great Trump was, how much he's accomplished, how badly Democrats want to bring him down, how they are setting him up,that Biden is the reason for these prosecutions, and never hearing any of the facts about the cases or anything remotely negative about Trump.
If you lived your entire life main-lining conservative talk radio, YouTube conservative conspiracy theorists, Fox News, news Maxx...and then have social media magnifying those views by feeding you all the things you already want to Believe (because you've been listening to this shit for years). Now Facebook is saying all of your friends think this way too.
Then you have republican "leadership" lying to you or misrepresenting almost everything because they can't afford to lose their clicks or have news Maxx call them a Democrat plant. They are doing everything they can to stay in power even if it means they have no ethics or values. So they'll sit there and weasel out of having any sort of backbone against obvious corruption or criminal activity.
And because of all that, people who grew up believing the news wouldn't straight up lie or that their party has integrity, ethics, and values...they end up believing what they hear. It's what their friends say on Facebook. It's a massive groupthink.
When people say it's like a cult, it truly is. They need to be deprogrammed. You know how hard it is to break people from their religion? That's how hard it's going to be to reel back Maga people.
But from their absolutely misguided, misinformed foundation, they are acting rationally. If everything they hear on a daily basis is true, of course they are fired up.
This trick is: how do we reach them? How can we even start reeling them back in?
We need things like this guilty verdict. We need actual leadership in the Republican party to stand up for what's right and admonish his behavior. A group of them need to do it together so they can't be picked off like injured gazelle by news outlets whose business is outrage.
I agree with you. I recognize my choice of words didn't hit the nail on the head and I failed to take the time to find the right word(s).
Whatever the word is for people who are easily brainwashed and find comfort in their echo chamber despite being informed of the facts by historically reputable organizations - those people.
Because despite liberals also living in their own echo chambers, most of them can still observe reality and accept that Biden also has his shortcomings. They can also look at what's going on with Hunter and agree with the reasonable Republicans and say whatever wrongs he did, he should be held accountable. They can judge him for what he's doing / not doing in Gaza and protest him (as they should). If Joe Biden did one percent of what Trump has done in his life, Democrats would turn on him, not defend him. I'm still not forgiving him for the 1994 crime bill and don't think he should ever have been elected president. I was excited to discover a progressive voice in TYT in the mid 2010s but I've kept a level head and realized they were turning into extremists.
Brainwashing, propaganda, advertising; I don't understand how they work. I worked as an art director in advertising and I had to quit because of all the manipulation. They all treat people like rats hanging a big chunk of stinky cheese in front of them.
I'm a pretty dumb person but I vividly recall, as an eight year old in catechism class, thinking all religions claim to be the "true" religion and realizing that there was no such thing as god and it was ll bullshit. How was I, as an eight year old, able to break free from the cult while most grown adults fail to see through it all? That's the part I don't get and I wrongly chose "dummy" to describe these people.
Yea, I definitely understand what you are saying. I dont get those people either. Its frustrating and even heartbreaking because they are so misled--but are also so easily "misleadable". Its hard to not fault them for it; its hard not to call them dumb.
I guess historically we called those people "suckers" or "rubes" -- which still may not accurately reflect that they can be very smart people (or even critical thinkers) in most other aspects.
In related news, TheConversation promoted this 2018 article on Bluesky yesterday https://theconversation.com/the-slippery-slope-of-dehumanizing-language-97512
My question to them was: How does “dehumanizing” work to begin with? If we’re wired to be social empathetic creatures, what is so powerful about these statements to unwire us?
The entire story is missing right between these two paragraphs.