What can a city do when neo-Nazis start marching down its streets?
The brazen appearance of white supremacist groups in Nashville left the city grappling with how to confront hateful speech without violating First Amendment protections.
They first arrived at the beginning of July: dozens of masked white supremacists, shuffling out of U-Hauls, to march through Nashville carrying upside-down American flags.
A week later, members of a separate neo-Nazi group, waving giant black flags with red swastikas, paraded along the city’s famed strip of honky-tonks and celebrity-owned bars. The neo-Nazis poured into the historic Metro courthouse to disrupt a City Council meeting, harassed descendants of Holocaust survivors and yelled racist slurs at young Black children performing on a downtown street.
The appearance of white nationalists on the streets of a major American city laid bare the growing brazenness of the two groups, the Patriot Front and the Goyim Defense League. Their provocations enraged and alarmed civic leaders and residents in Nashville, causing the city to grapple with how to confront the groups without violating free speech protections.
If you punch a nazi, and you get two friends to punch a nazi and then they get two friends to punch nazis, before you know it, everyone is punching nazis.
My favorite shampoo commercial, even better
You can't go around punching cops.
You're not allowed to, but you definitely can.
Not for very long, unfortunately
Make the world a better place
Punch a Nazi in the face
I need that on a t-shirt
My ex worked at a local screen printing shop, and I hung out there a lot and made some cash during big orders. I went to the owner with a simple "punch more nazis" design I made stoned, half jokingly asked him to burn the design so my ex could print it for me.
It was the business version of that genie "thats dope you still have 3 wishes" meme - "yea I'll burn it in the morning you know where the extras (leftover unused shirts) are 🤷♂️"
We never got along super well but we knew where we agreed lmao
Arrest. Them. Holy shit, that's something that in any reasonably sized city would be worth at least a night in jail to cool off, even if you were some fucking normie instead of a neonazi fuck. It's not that fucking hard.
Arrest them for what exactly? Is disrupting a city council meeting anything but a civil infraction?
I don't want this sort of thing going on, but what law would justify jail time?
I mean maybe they did do something to justify it, but I don't know that disrupting a city council meeting should land people in jail. People also disrupt city council meetings when they try to pass anti-queer ordinances. And they should.
Criminal trespass, easy. Fuck, that's levied all the time as a club against left-wing protesters. Yet when actual neonazis show up, they get nothing? Fuck that.
Most city council meetings are legally open to the public. It is in fact their main purpose.
I'm used to normal city council meetings being private, and public ones being the exception.
They’re open to the public unless certain members are asked to leave.
A public building can still kick someone out, and if they don’t leave, then that’s trespassing.
I think the answer to that is not 'also arrest the Nazis,' it's 'don't arrest the left-wing protesters either.'
Balancing the scales doesn't solve the problem.
And neither does playing by the gentleman's rules of boxing when your opponent is using brass knuckles. Fucking "They go low, we go high"? Did we not learn our lesson? If a weapon is used, the correct answer is to make the opposition see why that weapon was banned in the first place - it's the same reason why many signatories of the Geneva Protocol allow for retaliation if chemical weapons are used against them.
So left-wing protesters should continue to be arrested as long as Nazis are also arrested? Really?
... what? Not arresting Nazis isn't going to magically un-arrest left-wing protesters.
It's also not going to arrest Nazis that have already done these things. So how about we don't arrest anyone for protesting and just make it legal from now on?
I'm sure police chiefs will get right on that
I'm sure police chiefs will get right on arresting Nazis too. What's your point? We shouldn't advocate for not arresting people for protesting?
You're fucking kidding me, right? You don't pre-arrest people. You arrest people after they've done shit.
God, why didn't we think of that brilliant solution before? How many left-wing lawyers and political organizations have simply overlooked that we can just make it legal to protest?
I see, this is one of these "never try" situations. We could never stop left-wing protesters from being arrested so we should never try to stop it and advocate for that to end and instead just call for other people to be arrested too.
Because we shouldn't want people to have rights, we should want other people's rights taken away.
No, it's apparently one of those noble martyrdom things, where the correct response to getting brutalized by Nazis is to roll over and show how very moral you are by just passively taking it.
You do realize that this is already happening to left-wing protesters, right? The only thing you're advocating for is that left-wing protesters get the full force of the state laid down on them while Nazis are allowed to roam free because "It wouldn't be fair" to apply the same goddamn laws to them as long as those laws are on the books.
You've convinced me. Never try to get back rights that were taken away from you. Just get vengeance.
Left-wing protestors not getting arrested isn't even on the table here, so I don't see why the argument should be couched based on that.
Why isn't it on the table? Shouldn't it be on the table?
Because allowing these nazis to continue marching in the street will have zero impact on what happens to left-wing protestors, and denying these nazis the right to march on the streets will also have zero impact on what happens to left-wing protestors.
Okay, but you said left-wing protesters not getting arrested isn't on the table. Why not? Why shouldn't we do what we can to change that?
Yes, but I don't see how that applies to this situation. The jack boots who arrest people for expressing their First Amendment rights aren't going to stop just because some neo nazis were allowed to harass people on the streets via some left-wing action. They don't care about fairness or our rights and many of them are probably sympathetic to extreme right-wing groups.
I can't believe I have to keep explaining this... Cops do not do things if they are not paid. If you pass a law saying that cops will be fined for arresting protesters, they won't arrest protesters. They may be right-wing, they may be thugs, but they don't do things for free most of the time.
Is that really beyond the pale for a local municipality to pass such a law?
Left-wing protestors respect the social contract. NAZIs don't, and therefore do not deserve to be protected by it.
People don't deserve equal rights under the law? Are you sure that's the position you want to take up? Because it sounds like a very Republican position.
Punching NAZIs is always self-defense, even if they haven't punched you yet. 'Cause they're going to, 'cause that's what NAZIs do.
So you are saying that yes, the law should be applied unequally.
As I said, Republicans agree with that position. You and they are just at odds with who the same laws should help and who the same laws should oppress.
Free speech for me and not for thee has been one of their modus operandi for a long time now.
I'm not arguing with you about this semantic bullshit. To be a NAZI is to declare your intent to commit a crime. NAZIism is a criminal conspiracy.
There is no "equal protection" issue here, unless you think criminals deserve to be protected.
Please show that your claim has a legal basis in U.S. law.
Because I can show you the basis for a right to protest. It's right in the Constitution.
Good point: the correct answer is, don't treat them equally, because they don't act equally. What we should be doing is exactly the opposite of what we are doing: fucking-up the NAZIs while leaving the left-wing protestors alone.
This is not hypocrisy, by the way. This is a simple application of consequences: those who do not respect the social contract do not deserve to be protected by it.
It may not be hypocrisy, but it is suggesting that the law continue to be applied unequally (just the opposite way around), which is definitely not a progressive position.
Arrest any and all groups that storm in and disrupt government functions, simple as that
Which means that people in the government can argue that virtually anything the government does is a "government function." Mayor's press conference? Government function. Better arrest those protesters. Governor's mansion? It has public tours. That's a government function. Better arrest those protestors.
Look what happened without that law when a president wanted a photo op with a Bible in front of a church. And you want to make that even easier?
You can protest outside the building perfectly fine, storming into the chambers and stopping the agenda is blatant disruption and I won’t argue it.
But how do you make it clear that is the government function that can't be disrupted but the press conference afterward can because it does not count as a government function?
Don’t enter government grounds for your protests.. do it outside the building.
Outside the building is often government grounds too. Those buildings can be in plazas which are entirely government-owned.
So, again, you're saying you can't protest the press conference (except from a great distance).
After seeing federal agents literally kidnapping people off the streets of Portland for "looking like protesters," yes absolutely they can arrest them even if the charges are bullshit or won't stick.
Not if they don't get paid for it.
Civil disobedience can get you arrested, and while you might beat the rap, you can't beat the ride.
Both you and @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world are arguing the same point. The only difference is @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world wants nobody arrested and you want to also arrest the Nazis.
First of all ACAB let it be known. However I think it's more likely to get a local city council to allow for anyone using intimidating imagery, (defined by swastika and similar iconography) to be detained and removed from chambers. It's been done elsewhere with great effect.
The issue is how to get it enforced because unfortunately, those that burn crosses are the same that join forces.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/long-painful-history-police-brutality-in-the-us-180964098/
https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/54960/public-display-of-swastika-in-the-us
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/germanys-laws-antisemitic-hate-speech-nazi-propaganda-holocaust-denial/
Treat them like our American predecessors did. If they're wearing swastikas then shoot the fuckers.
Sounds right to me. Nazis invaded Europe, tried to take over the world, and slaughtered millions in gas chambers. The US military should be deployed to arrest or neutralize Nazis whenever they appear.
For starters, it can not arrest the bartender that punched a nazi after that nazi started a fight.
https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/dont-just-stand-by-man-recounts-being-hit-by-neo-nazi-protesters/
My dude didn't deserve to be arrested, he deserved to drink for free throughout Lower Broadway!
Yeah, I don't give a flying fuck about a Nazi's First Amendment rights, just like they don't give a flying fuck about anyone else's rights.
Jake and Elwood knew how to handle it.
Arrest them for an unlawful assembly like they do to everyone else they don't want marching.
No, that's only for black people and Muslims. "Unlawful" assembly for neo-nazis is just met with a shrug.
How would the pigs marching there arrest themselves?
Gather up all of your neighbors and go punch some Nazi trash.
The greatest generation knew how to deal with Nazis. Flamethrowers, bombs, artillery & bayonets. That's all the conversation needed.
No, no, you see, war is bad, therefore, we should take the high road and let the Nazis slaughter us while we lodge diplomatic complaints at the UN in the hope of getting them to stop, eventually, someday. /s
Point.
Laugh.
Call them "weird".
Make them realize how unpopular they really are.
Briefly, then go all out ignoring them
Turn on the sprinklers.
Laugh at and ridicule them. Make it very clear that you aren't scared of them and that they're rejects of society who amount to nothing. Take away their sense of power and they'll leave. It's worked in the past on several occasions.
“Take off your mask and pose for a picture, coward.”
Remind them that they are cowards again and again.
There was a Nazi rally/anti-protest in my city like a year or so ago and all the LGBTQ+ people (including my sister and I) showed up to protest their bullshit with 3 times as many people and shut that shit down hard.
But it still pisses me off the city allowed those pricks to even gather in the first place.
First Amendment basically means the government can't bar people from rallying or protesting based on what beliefs they are doing so in the name of. Same reason why there are no hate speech laws, and why basically the only expression that is inherently criminal is expression that requires doing another crime to create (think child pornography, as you can't make it without sexually abusing children).
Why are you asking questions the mods won't let me answer?
Ikr? Killing Nazis cannot be discussed? I’m pretty sure that’s 100% okay, and a global pastime. My comment was removed for saying it. 🤷♂️
That's what happens when ya let neoliberals run things.
its only okay to defend yourself against Nazism AFTER they've spread propaganda, recruited, trained, and started putting people in camps.
I really hoped things would be better when we left reddit.
In 1943-45, you just shot them.
I vote snipers.
Aim for the hoods.
This is why I don't get to run a town, but I stand by my opinion here.
Have you tried making your own city, ala BioShock? Doesn't have to be under water. Though it might help.
Counterprotest.
Exactly, I can't for the life of me imagine that these clowns are in the majority in any major city.
How do you do that, when they protest illegally? They go in without permits in u-hauls and just create chaos out of nowhere. It's planned, but not in the public eye.
Then it's not a question of free speech, I suppose. I'm not from the US, but I assume that demonstrations have to be registered in your country too. If this is the case, the police can easily crack down, break up these illegal gatherings, impose fines and so on. I am of course aware that there are sympathizers among the police - but they have to abide by the law if they want to keep their jobs. I don't understand why there is any need for a discussion about freedom of expression at all when these demonstrators just disrupt public order and try to intimidate people. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech - sound more like a felony to me.
I absolutely agree but I'm many cases they hide behind masks and then take off before enough meaningful presence can be mustered against them, even in a big city like Nashville. These guys are cowards that rely on significant advantage of numbers and surprise to intimidate. Then take off before anybody has time to do anything about it.
Well, that's a real problem. In this case, there is probably nothing much to do but rely on the civil courage of citizens and hope that someone will at least take down the license plate number or that maybe a critical mass will form quickly enough to detain these idiots until the police arrives. I am glad that such actions by fascists do not (yet) exist in my country (Germany). In the city where I live, even a whole bunch of sad Nazis would have no fun at all if they tried something like that. But that can be quite different elsewhere in my home country too. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find a way to deal with these morons. Be save!
Edit: In Germany, this kind of behavior might be enough to be investigated for forming a terrorist organization - which is what is being attempted here: spreading terror. Perhaps you can collect signatures to persuade your representatives to take action.
Oh my sweet summer child...
Reload when it goes "click".
This is a good start: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/r_UP_EiXwKA
May I also suggest setting up rotten vegetable stands at the farmer's markets?
turn a blind eye to the black bloc stalking them
Beat the ever loving shit out of them. Remember, you didn't see anything.
There are several amendments for that
ask philly
lol. My comment about killing Nazis got removed by these right-wing mods
https://youtu.be/aFh08JEKDYk
Ah yes, when harassing holocaust descendants on the street is protected under free speech but a drag show in a closed building is not...
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