A longtime GOP operative helped the Green Party’s Jill Stein get on the N.H. ballot. Democrats smell mischief.
bostonglobe.com
"According to FEC filings, the Synapse Group has worked for Republican Governor Doug Burgum of North Dakota, who ran for the GOP presidential nomination this cycle, as well as GOP candidates for Congress. Synapse has also been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for field and canvassing work by America PAC, the outside spending group started by allies of Musk that has spent millions of dollars this election cycle to boost Trump and oppose Democrats."
With a tip of the keyboard to a certain someone who has blocked me and won't see this (a shame really):
Since many in this community have a habit of resorting to personal attacks when responding to posts recently, I’ll say this: I support and respect everyone’s right to vote for who they want to. Just as I support the ability of anyone to point out to someone the consequences of their actions. ;)
I’m just posting this article that’s already available on a much bigger platform than Lemmy—I didn’t write it, just sharing it for discussion.
What this? Oh just Jill Stein enjoying dinner with known traitor Mike Flynn and the guy who wants Democracy destroyed and Trump in office— Pootie.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna742696
Yep, she's the greenwashing candidate who comes out every four years to collect a paycheck and espouse Libertarianism. An absolute grifter.
Hey, you never need to apologize for sharing news unless it's fabricated - some people may downvote articles they disagree with but most of us just appreciate the folks that find stories to share.
They are being facetious because the user they mentioned constantly posts in favor of third party candidates and had taken to writing a bizarre disclaimer like this to essentially troll the many users they're pissing off with their behavior
I can take a pretty educated guess as to who that is. You're not wrong for posting this in the slightest.
These shenanigans are the exact type of bullshit that shows the U.S. is a failed democracy, and is in need of severe election reform. That goes for the form of financial reform, switching to more representative types of voting like approval voting, measures taken to make gerrymandering impossible, etc.
The irony in my discussions with that other user is that I wholeheartedly agree we need viable third parties. And to your point, we desperately need election reform. But their willful ignorance of the fact we need to put out the house fire before we start discussing changes to building codes is the kicker.
The sad thing is that all the current third party candidates are useful idiots and not viable alternatives. And with democracy literally on the line, there’s not any real option other than acting like an adult and casting a ballot for the only option that moves us forward. And then the day after Election Day, start doing the real work to fix this for every Election Day thereafter.
It’s insane. It’s like trying to debate a wall. At this point, I’ve resigned myself to just trying to counter the wrongheaded arguments if I don’t see anyone else doing so.
sounds like I had the exact same conversation with this person not long ago.
So many of us have - it’s sort of amazing. It doesn’t help that they often copy and paste common responses to different people, so in some cases the conversation is pretty much the same verbatim on their end.
As I said yesterday, I can't believe he is not banned yet. Repeatedly claiming that he doesn't care about the spoiler effect because he "doesn't believe in it" and copy-pasting long (often unrelated) walls of text at people verbatim sounds to me like multiple violations of the "good faith discussion" rule.
It's almost like they have an agenda.
You've read my mind.
If your second paragraph is implicating who I'm thinking since you're basically using a direct quote of theirs, then I'm not at all surprised by them blocking you. They love to take quotes out of context or ignore half of a quote for their own benefit. I love that you're directly calling them out. Good on you for actually knowing how our election system works.
Democrats should combat this by advocating for ranked choice or approval choice voting which is a fairer voting system and won't allow for "spoilers"
They should.
They won’t because they benefit from the system too.
But they should.
That's the thing about these viral talking points they're making though - this can be used as a launch pad for approval choice voting if we all bring it up every time it's mentioned in conversation. Using improv's "Yes, and," to further leftist causes. With enough peer pressure it's possible to change public policy.
Yeah, election reform should be the first priority …once this election is done. And age limits for federal offices and judicial appointments. And federal standards for how federal elections are held. And roughly dozens of other things :)
Disagree, I think any Democrat worth voting for will bring this up. I think this is a "right now" topic which is a perfect rebuttal to their annoyance with third party candidates.
The problem is that some form of ranked choice voting is the right choice, but have you ever tried to explain RCV to anyone over the age of 50? I have had to in a professional setting, and it’s nearly impossible. It just makes them confused and angry. Unfortunately elections are not the greatest forum for explaining new ideas, and if Harris were to come out for it, she’d likely lose more votes than she’d get.
Can you imagine the headlines and tv news chyrons from certain sources if she even mentions “needed election reforms” right now? The whole race would become about how she’s trying to “break elections” and take over the country. We’ve got people right now seriously talking about Haitians eating pets based on absolutely nothing - and you think her talking about changing how we hold elections is going to help?!
However, during the honeymoon of a new administration and if we get enough seats in Congress, it might be possible to start the conversation that would lead us down that road. Especially if folks are willing to make it obvious that we’re going to hold their feet to the fire when it comes time for the mid-terms.
We’re not talking about something even within the purview of the President - we’re talking Congress and state legislatures. The only way to do it is to have a President using the bully pulpit and citizen groups with such overwhelming activity that the politicians know their jobs are on the line.
I have no personal experience of explaining ranked choice.
I can imagine calculating ranked choice vote outcomes is probably pretty labour intensive (without computers).
However people generally understand the concept of how someone comes 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in a race, and I'm sure most people have thought about a ranked list of their favourite movies or football players, so it's not some completely alien concept.
That seems pretty simple to me, unless I'm missing something?
And finally whole bunch of countries manage this without any issues ...
Coming from a two party country (UK) the only real issue I see is the fragmenting of power and subsequent need to form endless alliances in parliament. (If I voted for the Greens but the Greens need the the votes of another party and end up doing deals is that really representing my vote..)
Look at the Examples section on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting and I think you’ll see it’s probably more complicated than anticipated. And everyone has an opinion on which is the “best” method (which is fair as they are each optimized for different goals).
In theory it shouldn’t be hard to explain, and yep, lots of places all over the world manage it without a problem. But remember in the US we’re so idiotic we can’t even accept the metric system. And a fair numbers of folks are absurdly proud of that fact. We’re also not smart enough to handle health care like everyone else does or provide real parental leave. So while ranked choice voting is objectively superior to first past the post and even aligns with a lot of people’s stated goals for fairness, etc., it’s still a huge uphill climb and many folks will reject it outright without even really thinking about it.
So in summary, it can be done, but not likely to be something you want to run on as a presidential candidate.
All valid points, and I didn't realise the differences in outcomes based on the various counting methods!
That would be complex to explain to many people I'm sure. However, and I'm possibly biased here, there's a whole bunch of systems I don't fully understand (car engines, encryption methods, football tournament knock out rules) but I know they work and tend to accept them and at least understand their limitations and outcomes.
I can totally see how people would reject things they don't understand, and could be easily pushed in to rejecting a new system.
Also I agree that winning an election based on the change could be hard, and perhaps attempting to introduce this change later would work. Though I'm not sure the big parties (labour and conservatives in UK) really want to change a system that works for them!
The sad thing is that RCV might require a constitutional amendment to make it happen nationwide. See for example https://www.pressherald.com/2017/05/23/maine-high-court-says-ranked-choice-voting-is-unconstitutional/
I like it but I don't see it happening without some other major reforms. Hence why I keep hoping for the 127 DC states plan...
This is a good video that gets into the issues of various forms of voting, and argues "approval voting is the best option".
Because it is the best option. It's dead simple, it's easy to give updates mid count, it's easy to audit, it's no more expensive than any other form, etc.
This is not to say it's perfect, but it's easily the best.
Just call it instant runoff then. It's the same thing (as I understand it) and has been in the American lexicon for some time now.
Democrats benefit from the current system. How many times to hear "Biden may not be great, but you have to vote for him to stop Trump?"
When you're running against the "let's be dictators" party lack of voter choice is an advantage. You don't have to have any policy other than "we won't be dictators" and voters can't hold you accountable for anything without letting the dictator take power.
Its always "next time"
Well, as magic wands are in short supply, how do you propose we deal with the practicalities of getting it done? A bit flippant, but it’s the kind of issue that needs to be worked on all the time, not just every four years.
🖐🤚We need to bring the wand-manufacturing jobs back to America 👐, it's terrible👆 they've all closed up shop and moved to Narnia.
Well, since Democrats ain't gonna do it and Republicans sure as hell ain't, let's quit using it as a prerequisite for fixing things that centrists don't want to fix but also don't want to be pressured over.
They are.
The last time that was introduced was 2021. They WERE. They currently are not.
They still are, the Wikipedia page just hasn't been updated.
Edit: Actually, if you'd just look at the "Legislative History" section of the wiki article instead of reading just the top summary, you'd see it got reintroduced in 2024.
That's not ALL the democrats. That's not a message by the entire party.
Eta: yes since my last comment it was reintroduced by the same guy, at the time I commented it had not been reintroduced in 2024
It's from some of the most senior democrats from the progressive and centrist wings and would permanently destroy Gerrymandering, I'm pretty sure most democrats would support it given the chance.
Then the public should demand their representatives talk about it more
Moving the goalpost
No.
Really? You think the Democrats should be spending valuable time in an election year talking about a niche electoral reform that most people would need explained?
There's a reason 99% of political rhetoric revolves around bread and butter issues or something that can be used to scare people. RCV is neither of those, and most people who are actually dedicated to getting RCV already know about FairVote and the Democratic party's willingness to pass RCV.
Niche? I thought it was an idea the entire Dem group was putting forth legislation on, now it's an obscure idea we have to take time to explain? Your last paragraph contradicts your first one - is approval voting so niche that Dems don't know about it and can't talk about it and have to explain, or is it so well known that every Dem already has openly stated their support of it?
Yes, Dems should take time during campaigns to talk about actual policy. That's what campaigns are for.
99% of status quo talking points are boring because our representatives are bad at their jobs.
You're pretty consistently putting words in people's mouths, moving goalposts, and just generally acting with intellectual dishonesty.
Thanks for your contribution. You sound obsessed hunty 💅
Can you just argue like a normal person and not act delusional like some sort of gotcha?
edit: Like I'm pretty sure I don't even disagree with you for the most part but you're acting like a stupid person and using fallacious rhetoric lol
They literally did not say that. Strawman. Fallacious.
No.
There's a difference between the Democratic base and the Democratic Party politicians who make decisions. RCV is somewhat popular among the Democratic Party politicians, it's basically unknown of/uncared about by the base. That's how it's both niche, and desired by the Party. I'm sure you knew this though.
That's what they do. Literally every single election.
No they're boring to you, because they're not meant to appeal to you, you do not represent the majority of the Democratic base, the Democratic base is mostly middle aged college educated liberals, not hyper-online leftists.
Gee, wonder why Democrats have a likability issue. You don't need to alienate people for them. Unless you hate them? It's always so hard to tell with you all
Most people I speak with, most average Americans, have a HUGE problem with the two party system and are open to things like approval or ranked choice voting. Go to any bar and talk to anyone. In terms of democracy, that's majority voters. Since I'm not authoritarian or fascist, I think it's important for representatives to hear issues like these and represent their people's wishes.
Both parties benefit from preventing progress. That's why we are hashing out abortion issues from the fucking 70s. We're arguing about child care, something Republicans wanted originally in...again, the 70s.
Democrat politicians are NOT making this a central talking point because they benefit from ignoring their base. You're right that they enjoy bypassing their civic duty as representatives of everyone. If they wanted to, they'd all be talking about it at every campaign to make it a theme/rally cry. They choose not to and to use old talking points that you can hear more eloquently said from the original trials and speeches of the 70s. It's a niche issue in the media. It's intentionally ignored by Democrat leadership. It's desired and known by most people.
Unfortunately for you, I'm aware of the power I have as an individual. I will keep talking and keep advocating.
More goalpost moving. Let's go back to the original argument about whether or not legislation is being pushed for, maybe?
Again, I agree with you for the most part lmao but you are doing such a bad job of coming off as intellectual. You straight up sound like someone who would get posted on r/iamverysmart.
Jesus christ.
Putin’s Jizz Stein wants Nato disbanded, the US to give up their SC veto, and revoke weapons to help Ukraine defend itself while simultaneously forcing ‘peace’ (subjugation) negotiations with russia.
For those that don’t understand how the Electoral College + FPTP voting works, voting for her means helping donald become president due to the spoiler effect.
2015 Stein breaking bread with Putin, his senior staff, and Mike Flynn (later Trump's national security advisor
Just as a bit of context:
The rest are obviously all Russian politcal figures and well Jill Stein. The photo was also taken at a Russia Today celebration. Just saying.
I'd also like to point out something I've heard way too much lately:
I've heard probably a dozen variations of this statement by now.
The spoiler effect is the result of geometric distance between candidates, not the strength of policy positions. If anybody tells you that the democrats should just do X, unless X is switching the country over to approval/star/rcv, or some other system that is more representative, they don't know what they're talking about.
Here is an example using a randomly generated set of voters and candidates. The first election is just two candidates, the second election is identical, but with an extra 3rd candidate
Any party, any candidate can fall victim to this, no matter how strong or inspirational they are. This is simply the result of everybody voting for the candidate closest to them.
A good electoral system will not have the results changed by an irrelevant candidate. But our current systems are vulnerable to this, and it is disastrous for the state of our country.
Seems kinda dirty that Jill Stein would even consider "doing business" with the GOP. I kinda figured as a third party leader she of all people would put her morals and beliefs above numbers.
she is, and always has been, at best an out of touch accelerationist, and at worst a fascist sympathizer and collaborator
Something smells like borscht at this dinner?
I don’t know what borscht smells like, but I assume it’s …. Uh…. “Unique”
Borcht is delicious. It's beef/chicken/protein veg with beets as a kind of stew with a sort of tomato creme sauce. You typically serve it with a genous dollop of sour cream and dill. The dill is optional (I know some people hate that flavor) but in my opion is really key.
It doesn't really have a particular scent other than "stew". It's great in a slow cooker, and you can bastardize/customize it if you want (although it may not technically be Borcht at that point). If I don't have beef I'll do it with polish sausage and sometimes had boiled eggs.
10/10 don't sleep on tasty European tomato beet meat stew. Stew/soup season is coming.
Reading this makes me want to try borcht! Thanks for explaining what it is. Sounds delicious.
Like a lot of things it's very coruptible. I'd say the things that make it borscht are: beets, tomatoes, sour cream and the dill really is the thing (although again, if you just plain don't like dill don't force it).
Do it by the recipie(ish) once then make it your own :). Tomatoa broth isn't terribly common in recipies.
Nothing wrong with a good borscht and good bread.
Lots wrong with the people in the picture though.
I think this is a losing issue for Democrats to be putting effort into.... while third party candidates may be spoilers in our current system the solution is not to try and disenfranchise those parties - it's terrible optics and, if you want to capture green voters there are so much easier tactics.
That 3% that third-party candidates typically earn makes a big difference when polls are showing 49% to 48%. It’s fair to question a Republican’s motive to support a candidate with opposing views to their own party.
Yep, and the reason they rely on non-Democratic operatives for this stuff is because the DCCC will blacklist you if you help a third party/independent campaign.
If you need the expertise to get on the ballot, your best chance is to hire someone that worked for one of the big parties before.
Instead of handwringing about spoilers, maybe democrats should run on some of the policies that are overwhelmingly popular instead so there's no room on the left for someone to run.
But voters and politicians aren't one and the same. Voters have every right to call out spoilers. Politicians, I don't see doing it all that often, but even still you have a point there. They could listen more to what people actually want rather than being afraid of alienating centrists.
The spoiler effect is the result of geometric distance between candidates, not the strength of policy positions. You don't know what you're talking about.
Isn't she also a crazy crystal lady? 🤔
I think that’s Marianne Williamson? She was a wacko that ran in 2020.
Nah it was Jill
it's both. Williamson just tweeted today "Haitian voodoo is real".
Well of course it’s real. I saw it on tv!
::: spoiler Boston Globe - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for Boston Globe:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/09/10/metro/jill-stein-new-hampshire-ballot-republican-help/ ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
Boston Globe is left-center? Yikes, more misinformation from the conservative bot.
Considering Democrats did the same thing when Trump was running in 16 because they thought it would be easier for Hilary to win... Maybe they would learn that this kind of crappy gaming is dumb and could be fixed with improved voting systems.
Right... Because it's the Democrats that don't want to make it easier to vote and improve voting systems....
This is sarcasm.
Democrats are never going to do anything that breaks the duopoly in IS politics.
They literally put out bills to do so all the time