Federal judge again strikes down California law banning gun magazines of more than 10 rounds
apnews.com
California cannot ban gun owners from having detachable magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, a federal judge ruled Friday.
The decision from U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez won’t take effect immediately. California Attorney General Rob Bonta, a Democrat, has already filed a notice to appeal the ruling. The ban is likely to remain in effect while the case is still pending.
This is the second time Benitez has struck down California’s law banning certain types of magazines. The first time he struck it down — way back in 2017 — an appeals court ended up reversing his decision.
Magazine size laws aren't really effective at doing anything. Up in Canada you can't have a rifle magazine with more than 5 rounds. However, almost all of the magazines are full size magazines that have been modified to hold fewer rounds. All of the responsible owners leave them at 5, but with a minute or two of work you could turn most of them into full size again. We don't have mass shootings every day.
Gun violence in America is a culture issue. You're broken.
A magazine is literally just a box of certain geometry with a spring inside it. They can be 3D printed or made by hand. No government anywhere can stop the signal. Instead we need to focus on the cultural rot that made narcissists decide it was OK to assault random strangers.
thank you!! this country has a narcissism problem. the hyper-focus on individuality and celebrities not only encourages it, but celebrates it. lots of people look up to narcissistic psychopaths as if being a ruthless egotistical asshole is something to strive for.
i knew a guy that had one poster up, and it was of Tony Montana from Scarface. he would show it off to people as if he were unaware he was indirectly telling everyone that he was an asshole. the guy i knew looked up to a machiavellian drug dealer that easily murdered anyone that got in his way of wealth and power, despite that Tony had a horrible relationship with his wife, was paranoid, and ended up dying from his own shit behaviors.
i knew a girl with a social circle that was all about social media likes. her and her best friend went to Hawaii to take pictures to post on instagram and facebook. i mean, they spent thousands of dollars and planned their days out in Hawaii around going to scenic places so they could waste hours taking and retaking 100s of pictures to post a few of the best ones. these girls had terrible relationships characterized by antagonism and competition. they would hit on each other's boyfriends and cheat on their own, then get surprisingly upset if anyone else did a 1/10 of what they did to their so-called friends and boyfriends. it was disgusting how they treated each other. even their own individual mentality was marred by these delusions of grandiosity and entitlement that weren't rooted in rationality or care for others.
whenever i visit other countries, i'm refreshed by the humanity of people there. i think it's one of the reasons i like traveling so much. i just cannot deal with the narcissism here. it's exhausting and alienating. anyone have any tips on how to remedy these feelings i get?
One of the hillbillies I know have a fully automatic M14 with a 20 round magazine from the Korean War. It was a pleasure to fire that thing.
Is the magazine size restrictions the only difference between the gun laws of America and Canada?
The most effective part of our gun laws is preventing violent offenders from obtaining a license (and maybe having a license to start with, I guess).
Beyond that, almost every other part of our laws are a ridiculous dog and pony show meant to appease some group or other in some way that's usually completely ineffective.
Exactly, it's very hard to respect the anti gun crowd when they focus on banning things that don't even matter beyond comfort or aesthetics. It's just all feel good bs that does nothing but hinder the average joe
Yeah, as a leftist who likes guns for fun, survival, self defense, and theoretical political unrest... I still think it's ridiculous we don't have gun licenses in the US. Or a gun ownership registry.
Bans restrict freedom for everyone.
License and registration lets you maintain that freedom for most, but still restrict it where necessary (e.g. crime, mental health), and more easily track and punish those who misuse firearms.
No. Canada has a whole host of prohibitions, and restrictions. The sale and transfer of handguns was recently made illegal (source), in 2020, 1500 models of what the Canadian government deemed to be an "Assault Rifle" were banned (source), Canada has extreme restrictions on the transportation of "Restricted Firearms" (handguns are an example of this) in that, to be able to transport them, you must obtain an "Authorization to transport", to be able to carry a "Restricted", or "Prohibited" firearm, one must obtain an "Authorization to Carry" (unless, possibly, it is for wilderness protection (source)), and, as outlined in the Canadian Criminal Code, and the Firearms Act, there are also many restrictions on the general transport, handling, storage, display, and transfer of firearms. Not to mention that in addition to all of this, as outlined in the Firearms Act, every firearm owner must be licensed for the use of "non-restricted" firearms (Possession and Acquisition License, PAL), and "restricted" firearms (Restricted Possession and Acquisition License, RPAL), respectively. The acquisition of each of these licenses requires a 1 day course, the successful passing of both a practical, and written exam, and a background check performed by the RCMP. After filling out, and submitting one's application, the prospective firearm owner's application, as mandated by legislation, will sit idle with the RCMP for a 28-day cooldown period. Only after that cooldown period has completed will they begin to process one's application, which can then take much longer depending on the speed of the government at any given time.
I can provide no guarantee that this list is exhaustive.
In addition to this, there is no limitation on the magazine size for rimfire longuns in Canada.
It's less a culture issue and more a safety nets issue - one we need to do much to improve upon.
Yeah, how are Americans meant to shoot and kill the 11 intruders that come into their bedroom at night as they sleep if their AR-15 mag is limited to 10 rounds.
Good to see common sense prevail. Now to lift the ban on belt fed firearms so Americans can really live free (or at least those who aren't brown, black, female, queer, progressive, poor or school children).
Skill issue. Line them up so you kill multiple targets with 1 round, and learn how to reload faster.
my man doesn't affix a bayonet and it shows
Killing them is not the problem, dropping them before they and their pack successfully charge you is the bigger problem
Gun rights are also trans rights. And gay rights. It's also veeeeeeeeeery interesting how interested the state is in making sure that certain groups of people aren't armed, e.g., black and brown people.
I'm guessing that you haven't heard of The Pink Pistols or Operation Blazing Sword, or heard the saying, "armed queers bash back". You might be vaguely aware that MLK Jr. was denied the right to a pistol permit (back when many states in the south had 'may issue' laws, rather than 'shall issue'), and as a result was usually surrounded by people that were armed, because this non-violent stuff'll get you killed.
Considering the armed attackers have guns themselves and not every shot you make is going to be a cool john wick™ shot through their eye, they may take multiple rounds and you may miss one while they're shooting back at you, yeah that's exactly when you need standard capacity magazines.
What, do you think this is for people shooting a bunch of unarmed pedestrians in a tight space with poor egress paths? Magazines are quick to reload if you aren't being actively shot at, it's trivial for them to "press button, grab other mag from wherever it was staged, slap in, charge round, and go" takes about 2sec if you're untrained, fraction of a second if you practiced in your room for a month with your gear and these fuckfaces plan their shit for months, they have the time. Look up a couple videos on reloading anything with a detachable magazine, mag bans are meaningless.
Going into this reply with the understanding that we both know that a perfectly legal reason for firearm ownership and use in the USA is self defence.
So with that in mind, shooting isn't easy. And people don't just stop because you shot them once, or twice. Just take a look at the infinite examples where actually trained professionals have had to fire multiple accurate rounds to stop a threat.
The issue isn't with the weapons themselves (and contrary to your comment, belt fed weapons are no less legal to own than any other semi auto weapon) it's with the restrictions to the individuals that can own them. The checks aren't stern or thorough enough.
If you take a step out of your US centric view for a moment you'll realise that many countries in Europe have civilian gun ownership laws permitting all the same types of rifles and pistols and shotguns as the US. With all the same standard capacity magazines/optics/accessories. And yet very little to no firearm related deaths outside of organised/gang crime.
It's important to maintain perspective. You become extreme to the opposite then all it does is increase extremism and you achieve nothing.
Edit: downvotes. Cool. Where am I factually incorrect or haven't added to the conversation?
Yes and no. A lot depends on both shot placement and the firearm being used. Centerfire rifles with bullets traveling more than 2200fps (roughly; some estimates say 2800fps) will stop a person much faster than a pistol, since the temporary wound cavity becomes a permanent wound cavity. But that's going to be true for nearly any centerfire rifle, aside from old cartridges that were designed around black powder (e.g., .45-70); an AR-style rifle isn't going to be more lethal than any other fast-moving centerfire rifle cartridge, it's just a fairly lightweight and easy to use rifle compared to grandad's M-1. Pistol cartridges can stop threats as effectively as rifles, but you require better shot placement, and you generally want to have defensive (e.g. hollowpoint) ammo. (There's a reason that "failure to stop" AKA Mozambique drills are a good training tool.)
A rifle is, for an able-bodied person, easier to shoot accurately and effectively than a pistol. Part of that is because you have a longer sight radius, and part of it is because you have a shoulder brace (...and a pistol with a shoulder brace is a short barrelled rifle, which is generally illegal without the BATF gittin' all up in yo shit). It's pretty easy, relatively speaking, to hit a target at 100y with a rifle, and very difficult with a pistol.
Eh. Civilian gun ownership is difficult and expensive in many European countries. However, many European countries do have combined violent crime rates (defined as murder, robbery, forcible rape, and battery) significantly lower than the US. Violent crime, in general, is lower in Europe. So it's not just that gun crimes are less likely, but that you're also less likely to be sexually assaulted, or get jumped and beaten. There's almost certainly something different going on in social conditions that make violent crime less likely, and that would make it less likely even if European countries had gun laws that were more relaxed.
Oh mate, I thought my instance showed on my username. I'm in the regulated land of Oz so you don't need to tell me how better controls would help the situation out. Nonetheless, I'm familiar with firearms via growing up on farms and military service.
Agree with your points, but also I would love to see stats on successful use of firearms in self-defence vs homicides where victim was armed. Not raising that in a contentious way, just would be interesting to see whether mag capacity >10 is even a relevant factor in that situation. Most pistol mags would be 10-15, except revolvers of course so limiting capacity to 10 doesn't really affect the outcome unless in a ridiculous situation as I outlined previous.
The FBI say the median number of shots to end a citizen involved shooting is 6 rounds. That's a person v person shooting.
Would you still feel comfortable with a revolver knowing that there was a chance you would need to use it?
Personally I don't agree with the concept of weapons for citizen self defence (vs people), it getting to that point is a total and systematic failure of every system in place that lead to that point; from mental healthcare, to education. Law enforcement to the media broadcast. However the topic is the US, and they are what they are at present. And it's a legally legitimate option.
The fact that I am arguing is that magazine size is so completely irrelevant. It's a quick fix easy sticky plaster political knee jerk, just like every other stupid and shitty ban or regulation.
The fact is that you can't ban gun in the US. It's just impossible. There's too many of them that any change in law in that regard would take generations to see effect and there are too many people that live in circumstances where there is a genuine reason for ownership and use (as you know living in Australia. Drop Bears).
People in the US need to admit that the solution is from the bottom. Improving education, mental healthcare, reducing extremism, eradicating the constant divisiveness in everything, etc etc. These things have only really become real in the last 15 years against 100s of years of ingrained firearm 'rights'. But that's too hard. So just make a piece of plastic that's a bit smaller than what it once was.
The overwhelming number of gun deaths that aren't suicide are ordinary crime. Fixing the economic conditions that lead to crime would probably have the single biggest effect. Cramming tons of poor people into a small geographic area, and then ensuring that they have no realistic way out of poverty sure as shit hasn't helped.
Extremism creates orgies of violence, but poverty creates the daily grind of violence.
States rights!
Wait, no not like that.
Well yes, the state has no right to infringe upon your rights, like say slavery.* Fought a whole war about that actually.
*Unless of course you wind up in the prison system, then they can infringe upon your rights, but that is also a problem.
Lots of great comments and debate here. Love it. But let me address mag bans specifically. They're a silly feel-good measure, at best.
If you tell me a capacity ban will save lives, I have to ask, have you ever swapped a magazine, of any sort? Hell, I'm actually more on target with my 10-round AR mags. Give's me 4 seconds to breathe, reset myself. The standard 30-round mag is physically and mentally wearing.
If for no other reason, the idea is childish thinking. Who believes the bad guys, the people they wish to restrict, will just shrug their shoulders and say, "OK."?
Besides, many LEOs, even sheriffs, have said they won't enforce such a ban. Well... probably not on white people. (Oh look, another racist gun law. Who knew?)
And even if one still thinks they're a great idea, how will you stop me from getting one from another state? It's a box with a spring in it, they're stupid cheap and plentiful. LOL, in the runup to the Oregan ban there were 100 people posting pics of their full crates in my liberal gun owners' group.
And perhaps worst of all, this annoys single-issue voters that would otherwise vote Democrat and gives ammo (heh) to conservatives. "SEE! They coming for your guns!" This hill worth dying on to lose elections to the GOP?
It has been for quite a few elections now - it would cost blue team nothing to pivot and yet they refuse to do so.
It seems that you are saying simultaneously that this is a very weak measure, and also it is a strong enough measure to upset people.
So then, we have a problem. Something must be done, but even this very small step gets blocked, fought against, and has individuals such as yourself encouraging others to not support it.
You've said that it could be used as 'ammo' against Democrats, to say that "They are coming for your guns." But couldn't you also say that its the opposite? Like, if someone is worried that "they" are going to take guns away, maybe that person could be placated by knowing that this near-nothing step is what is actually being asked for. It isn't taking guns away. It's a step that, as you say, won't make a lot of difference anyway. So can't that help reduce fear of change?
From my point of view, something must change. Some people propose big changes, some propose small changes. And both meet resistance. I suggest that if you also want change, then it's probably best to support even small changes without worrying about someone else might get upset that a change was attempted at all.
Rather, the very nature of arbitrary restrictions - for absolutely no gain - is quite enough to upset people.
Any step which encroaches upon rights without direct tie to solving a problem should be resisted. Have you considered Democrats could, say, literally anything other than big scary rifle and big scary standard mags?
Given these measures are well-understood as entirely ineffective yet pushed for, it is similarly well-understood there will be further restrictions as nothing will change with the identified problem - how could it, given the measures aren't in any way an addressing of those issues? Thus, we're left with a road to bans via incrementalism.
I would imagine after Roe v. Wade's pivot, you'd understand how relying on but SCOTUS isn't sound strategy - one must, instead, reject politicians pushing for such arbitrary, unhelpful measures rather than enabling the incompetence and erosion.
It would be fair to say politicians are proposing changes; they're unfortunately proposing the wrong ones - neither party is currently willing to consider anything outside their respective side of the wedge issue.
Blue team could entirely win here, were they willing to abandon their ivory tower - they refuse to do so. That failing is on them and no one else.
It's a short sighted argument to say baddies don't follow the rules so your only restricting honest people.
In Australia assault rifles and automatics are just outright banned. You need a licence to own any type of gun, which takes 6 months waiting for background checks to be done. Guns must be kept in Safes etc.
So whilst a baddie might want to get an assault rifle and go on a kill rampage he can't. There just aren't any around. You can't break in to a house and steal one.
Can organised crime get them? Sure. But that's not what this is trying to stop. It's preventing the impulsive bat shit crazy person going on a rampage.
It absolutely helps, as proven by Australias lack of mass shootings.
People who want to go hunting still can.
Law should be struck down.
As a gun owner I in my opinion think that we should have sensible laws for firearms. Do we need fully auto firearms? No not really. Are semi auto rifles a great tool for people in the country side? Sure I understand they have different dangers compare to city folks. For people that saw they should charge high taxes to own guns. Look at Mexico it ain't helping no one and makes it that the wealthy folks can afford firearms.
Oh and if we do register firearms and your gun is found in the black market without you notifying that your firearm was stolen that should be a red flag. It's an easy market to sell firearms when you buy from lax law states and they end up in Mexico.
Lastly I know this is a stretch, but the US should be checking vehicles going to Mexico. Interesting that we only check coming back but not going. Firearms trafficking would be significantly reduced if we started checking.
Last last thing, if you have kids and own a firearm and don't secure it, a big fuck you. Putting kids in danger, you fuckin cucks.
Sure, but it's not really about need and there's nothing meaningfully different about them.
You're going to see much resistance to the notion of the state owning a registry of every individual owning a firearm and what they own. Allow for the concept of a paper trail of transfers especially where private-party transfers are legal, allow those to request NICS checks, and you'll probably be set.
Alternatively, we could address the root of the problem: Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S. Drug cartels - there are policy changes we could enact to defang drug cartels while also helping enable addicts to seek the support they need.
We shouldn't have laws because criminals won't follow them
This is only a good argument if the conduct regulated by the law is bad in and of itself.
I can turn my AR-15 into a short barrelled rifle (which is only legal after a very lengthy and intrusive federal process) by simply screwing a new barrel on. If you don't care about the law, the barrier to doing it is tiny. That's what we mean when we say it only affects people operating in good faith with the law. It's so easy to bypass that it's questionable if we should bother.
This is a fantastic argument for having no laws. Ever.
It isn't. Right now it's very difficult to tell the difference between a law abiding gun owner and a criminal gun owner. In the 'defense' scenario, they are literally pitted against one another.
More or less accurate.
Hard no. Background checks for guns? Sure. Waiting period? No. Absolutely not. Let me tell my stalked to just wait three weeks, 'kay? Cool? Cool.
Absolutely not. We've already seen state governments trying to pass illegal bans (i.e., California). These are being overturned by courts now. If you have a registry, the net effect is that the state gov't can pass a law, confiscate your now-illegal firearms, and then--once the law is thrown out--you've still lost your firearms.
Agree, in general, about handling the black market sales to Mexico. However, that should be the job of the Mexican border patrol; they should be the ones controlling what's coming in, rather than the US controlling what's going out (except in the case of ITAR items). And yeah, we should get serious about prosecuting straw purchasers, since right now that's usually not even a slap on the wrist.
Well I think the best legislation is just heavy background checks and checkups on gun owners. Yes, you could introduce laws like this where people can just get around it or actually go deep down the the fundamental issue, which is why these mass shooters are mass shooters. Background checks and psychiatric tests are the way to go. Guns shouldn't and can't be illegal, make sure gun owning individuals are sound of mind enough to own them.
We've already done the research on mass shooters and understand how to address the problem - it's a multi-faceted, systemic approach.
So, naturally, neither party is willing to make any progress on it.
Summarised by Chat GPT:
The article is an interview with two professors, Jillian Peterson and James Densley, who have conducted a comprehensive study on mass shooters in the US. They have created a database of every mass shooter since 1966 and interviewed some of them, as well as their families and friends. They have also talked to people who planned a mass shooting but changed their mind.
The main findings of their research are:
The article also discusses the challenges and implications of their research, such as:
No thank you. You're asking the US government to do that? Practically, this would get sourced to your local police department and weaponized against minorities.
Well that sounds like it would be a drastic change from the status quo /s
And anyway, CA just passed a bill to do exactly that (psychiatric commitment solely through the criminal justice system) but for any crime. It's supposed to address homelessness (?) but that kind of power will get fucked up and out of control really fast. It's like they got it backwards. God forbid they address the people with the literal murder weapons. No. Let's go punish the people without rent bills and mortgages. That makes perfect sense.
I can't see any way that this could possibly go wrong, not ever. /s
Let's look at this on multiple fronts.
First, who is going to pay for that? Are you going to require people to pay for the ability to exercise their constitutionally-guaranteed rights? What other rights would you say that people should need to pay for in order to be able to use them?
Second, what criteria would you use to determine if someone is "fit"? A criminal background check is objective; wither you've been convicted of a crime or you haven't. A psychiatric test is about an indeterminate future, an even that hasn't happened yet. How are you going to guarantee that only people who will create a crime are being prevented from having rights, and not any other people?
Third, how do you distinguish between a protected political opinion ("the bourgeoisie need to be violently overthrown through force of arms by the proletariat") and beliefs that have no rational basis in protected political speech ("pedophile Jews are killing people with space lasers, therefore I need to murder everyone at Lollapalooza")? Given that involuntary commitment is already a disqualifying factor for owning a firearm, how is your proposal meaningfully different unless you are arguing that many people should not be permitted to exercise their protected rights because they might act in a criminal way at some indeterminate point in the future?
Shocking! Another dumb ineffective gun law that was clearly never going to stand is shot down.
Really good use of political capital and money.
Touchy issue.
I come from a country with no gun rights, at least not for civilians.
A spare magazine is not a restricted article. Anyone can buy or make. If the matter is 10 rounds, well, you can have as many mags as you want.
Or, have a big mag with fillers in it for inspection. When you step outside the police or whatever office, you just take those fillers out.
How am I going to go fishing now?!
grenades
Nice, now do Illinois.
Even if this ban stays, it will only effect law abiding citizens.
Makes it so less magazines are put on the black market. Just like a total gun ban would dry up the black market. In US and Mexico.
3D printers: exist
10rnd AR-15 .458 SOCOM mags have entered the chat
And where do the criminals get their guns from?
The ATF.
Straw purchases are the main way, like 85% or more...so illegally...
3d printers and illegal markets
We're not talking about guns, we're talking about mags. Which are trivial to make.
Before anyone tries to argue if the 2A covers bullet capacity, let me introduce you to the chambers gun
Presented to the founding father's in 1792 by its civilian inventor. 224 round capacity. Fully automatic.
The founding father's not only KNEW about high cap autos, they are even confirmed to have seen in action this fully automatic ultra high capacity gun, and they had absolutely no problem with a civilian owning and making them.
Limited to five in Canada. Way less gun deaths here. I'm fine with it.
I'm sorry, but if ten shots don't make your attackers run away, you're pretty fucked.
I was gonna throw in some sarcastic humor, but it keeps coming out very dark, so I'm withholding that. This sucks.
I've seen video of a small lady with a handgun chasing out four home intruders while taking wild, panicked shots. Yes, these guys ran, but not everyone will. Two and a half shots per intruder doesn't sound like a fun time.
Attackers do not always run away when presented with lethal force. Sometimes many direct hits are required to stop the threat. Many, many shots can end up in non-critical locations. It's not like an attacker is allowing you to line up nicely.
Under this logic, why do we have exemptions for police? Why does almost every single police department issue handguns with a capacity of 15 or more?