One is unconstitutional to ban, while the other is treason.
I was honestly taken aback that the confederate flag is allowed to be displayed in public schools.
Those 4 years that they were treasonous to get rid of state rights to ban slavery is very important to their state history.
That's what we get for giving the Confederates Military burials instead of an unmarked mass graves for their murderous treachery in the name of slavery.
Mercy was a mistake.
Unironically, the leaders of the Confederacy should have been executed for treason.
“Johnson embarked on a policy designed to restore the former Confederate states to civil government with maximum speed and a minimum disturbance of Southern institutions beyond the abolition of slavery itself,” writes historian Michael Les Benedict. “His policy placed former rebels in political control of nearly every Southern state and left Southern blacks to the mercies of the men who had fought so desperately to keep them in bondage.”
Tennessee: We're not all bigots, but you shouldn't feel safe.
Tennesseean here, this is absolutely the case. I wish there was more I could do to welcome marginalized people, but the best advice I have is to get out of here as soon as possible because things are going to get worse before they get better.
I came to say the same thing.
But I'll say this- the nazis in Nashville the other week were only able to escape unscathed because we didn't know they were there.
Let's proudly expose our slavery heritage while banning a symbol of individual freedom and diversity.
The union jack that you see flown (just a union jack) isn't even the flag of the confederacy, it's specifically the flag for the army and navy of the confederacy. You are identifying yourself as enemy combatants with that flag.
The real flag of the confederacy changed a couple times. The first iteration looks like a knock-off of the US flag with 3 stripes and 7 stars in a blue field in the upper left. The second iteration had the union jack in the upper left hand side (where the US blue field and stare are) and the rest was white. Eventually they realized that it looked like a flag of surrender, so 36 days before the end of the war, the confederacy added a vertical red stripe on the far right side of the flag.
If their "heritage" was so important, you'd think they'd at least get it right!
They never explicitly voted to keep confederate flags. That being said, one of the many types of flags that are allowed are those deemed “protected historical items” as defined by TN Code § 4-1-412 which does include items relating to “any war, battle, or military conflict in which citizens of the United States or any state or territory of the United States have participated in”.
Funny enough, this law would allow you to carry an Iranian, Soviet, or other flag that would piss people off.
I would recommend this article if you want to learn more.
Florida has declared war on "woke". That should allow all kinds of flags.
Wait that allows for a lot of communist flags. American citizens join basically every army
Okay thank you for your information! I still wanna share a snarky quote from the article though even if it isn't technically true in the case
If there’s one time the Tennessee legislature feels strongly about protecting free speech rights, it’s when those rights involve a symbol promoting racism and treason against the United States.
Is there any way to get a pride flag to qualify? Large scale protests seem like they could be historic (although IDK what the actual criteria is) and it would be funny if a protest against a law made the flag protected by the law.
Not really, no. The AP article has a list of every exemptions and it wouldn’t really qualify under any of them.
I bet you could hurt some feelings by flying the flag of the Seychelles.
(It's allowed cause the USA flew drone operations out of the Seychelles under the Obama administration.)
Wow! That flag is just BLASTING that color band at you lol. Awesome!
TN Code § 4-1-412 which does include items relating to “any war, battle, or military conflict in which citizens of the United States or any state or territory of the United States have participated in”.
Funny enough, this law would allow you to carry an Iranian, Soviet, or other flag that would piss people off.
I dunno about Soviet.
Despite spending much of the last century aiming a gun at each other's head, we really never did much by way of actual direct fighting.
A small number of American soldiers were sent into Russia during the Russian revolution to safeguard arms that had been shipped in and try to help get the Czechoslovak Legion out, and there was a very limited amount of conflict with Bolshevik forces, but it wasn't the Soviet Union then.
Frustrated by the quality and shortage of Chinese pilots, in November 1950, Stalin took the decision to involve Soviet air force pilots in the war, flying under the markings of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) or North Korean People's Army Air Force (KPAAF). Soviet air units dispatched to northeastern Manchuria to train Chinese pilots on the MiG-15 were first to see aerial combat against American aircraft on 1 November 1950.[16]
Soviet pilots were active in Korea from November 1950. In order to hide this direct Soviet intervention, precautions were taken to disguise their involvement, open knowledge of which would have been a major diplomatic embarrassment for the USSR.
Soviet pilots wore Chinese uniforms when flying, whilst rules were prescribed to stop Soviet pilots flying near the coast or front lines (where they might be captured if shot down) and from speaking Russian on the aircraft radio. All aircraft flown carried Chinese or North Korean markings.[17] When not flying, for reasons of ethnicity, on the ground Soviet pilots 'played' the roles of Soviet commercial travellers rather than Chinese or North Korean soldiers.
It also allows flags from “other countries and their local governments,” which, as long as they don’t need to presently exist, should cover it. If they do, just fly the flag of Cusco, Peru
Th Soviet Union was one of our allies during WWII
banjo playin and cousin fuckin intensifies
Underage cousins*
*FTFY. Don't forget Republicans in a bunch of states have been fighting minimum marriage age laws on top of everything else.
"Ain't nobody fuckin' mah sister but me! I done put the work in!"
Your "heritage" lasted three years less than the Obama Administration.
So they are wilfully signalling that they're traitorous scum.
The whole right wing has a perpetual sedition boner.
I went to grade school in Mississippi, (Air Force brat, 1970's) and here are some fun facts:
The day started with the class reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and then singing "Dixie."
Every classroom had a paddle hanging near the blackboard. The principle and many of the teachers also had a paddle handing off of their belt.
The "That's a Paddlin' " bit on the Simpsons was a 100% accurate representation of my first day in school
The Mississippi schools were about 6 months ahead of the Utah schools I came from and they made me do a lot of the homework assigned before I got there.
My god, how far behind must the Utah schools have been for Mississippi schools to be ahead!
Right? It shocks me to this day. They were at least 6 mos behind the MS schools.
Wow Tennessee, what a shit hole it’s turning into.
Losers love losing. Deniers love denying. Traitors love treason. The GOP loves Trump's shit-crusted cock, but denies being his bottom.
Ban the confederate flag and prosecute anyone who flies it as an enemy of the state. We keep patting these traitors on the butt then shocked Pikachu-ing when they double down instead of magically seeing the error of their ways. I'm fucking over it and over watching dems use them as an excuse to scurry further right for "moderates" that have never and will never vote dem to please their corporate owners.
The election is coming up in.... now... We've had 4, 6, 8, yrs depending on the goal. I don't think anything just is happening in the next 251 days. I'm very afraid. And the left wing protest vote to elect Trump is such an irrational concept that the fact they believe is reasonable to any extent, already killing future votes of bystanders today, that I don't put it past them to be irrational and hand him Michigan and others on a platter.
You can screech about leftists all you want, if they're so important maybe it's time democrats work with them instead of spitting in their face then blaming em when dems lose.
Not the lefts fault dems are a stones throw from Republicans, hell look at your narrative - Dems move us towards fascism all the same but oh dems are the only hope to save our nation and leftists are "less than" plebs who are voting wrong by voting for what they feel is right instead of your party cause you say to.
Just admit it, yall love harping about trump because it gives you the high ground against anyone left of Biden - yall hate leftists and see them as enemies WAYYYYYYY more than you ever did Republicans or MAGAts.
I'm a socialist. For 30 years. An actual activist IRL. Beaten by cops for the first time at age 12, tear gassed multiple times, led protests in NYC, yadda yadda. Sorry, you called out the wrong Internet stranger. There's no y'all. I'm who you believe you are. I want what you purport to want. I also think your personal world view is not grounded in reality and reflects mental illness not that far off from the orange cult. Zero sum game.
The party taking women's agency and promoting fascism is worse than the party that is not. And if you cared about women, trans kids, black people, Muslims, refugees, LGBTQIA+ people, educators, healthcare workers, unionists, any person of color or member of any out group, you'd prioritize protecting them.
Who are you to sacrifice all those people for your ideological screeching about how you wish things were without any actual plan in mind to improve things?
Explain yourself. Don't whataboutism. Respond to the above. I don't think you can. You're selfish. You don't give a shit about other people. You're a loud snowflake troll. I know because I used to be you. Then I grew up and thought about the actual people around me, not the ideological ones I pretended to fight for.
What are you doing to protect your community besides proudly electing a government that stands for its demise, and the demise of your comrades? Seriously, I'm asking.
There's more of that dehumanization, "you disagree with me so you're mentally ill." More of that "only WE can save the country." Instead of making demands and throwing personal insults (also pretty faschie of you,) why don't you explain why dems SHOULDN'T work with leftists if leftists supposedly cost them every election they lose?
You can vote Biden to SaVe ThE wOrLd, but you ignore the long game for the now. Saving marginalized groups in the short term does NOT change that we're still moving further right towards fascism with either party. You're not saving anybody if you don't change the system that is pushing for those groups to be further marginalized. You're calling the bandaid the cure and fighting people who want a cure harder than you ever fought the people hurting those groups. Next time, dems will be three steps closer than they are now, but "vote blue no matter who!" time after, three more steps closer, but "blue no matter who!"
Each go around more and more extreme rhetoric and policy is normalized partially due to dems refusal to hold their feet to the fire. We're only a few elections away from the dems throwing trans people under the bus too to "court moderates." Then they'll keep creeping down the list same as Republicans, because any force to move them in any different direction is artificially snuffed.
You obviously think you're a hero voting dem, but all you're doing is voting for the end of democracy in 10 years instead of 5, so I'll see you on the other side brosef.
Okay, so you don't have an alternative solution, and both sides same. Got it. None of your thoughts or feelings matter, if there are no future elections.
And about that solution? You done whining snowflake?
Just admit it, yall love harping about trump because it gives you the high ground against anyone left of Biden - yall hate leftists and see them as enemies WAYYYYYYY more than you ever did Republicans or MAGAts.
I think most of the folks you're talking about are sincerely, above all else, 'not Trump.' and they get defensive at anything that could benefit Trump.
And that's honestly a defensible stance - Trump is an enemy to the US, so keeping him out of power is one of the more productive things any of us can advocate for.
...but other than that, I'm with you. I think it's important that we hold our own accountable and criticize where it's due... blind loyalty is dumb as fuck in any context. The amount of defensiveness and downvotes in response to things like people criticizing Biden for funneling our tax dollars into a genocide is frustrating. I think they mean well - again, 'not Trump' is beyond justified... but that shouldn't be a free pass for 'not Trump' to fund a genocide, and I can't fucking believe that's a controversial take. -_-
Hi. I also agree with you for the most part. Here's the problem. While you're intelligent enough to appreciate nuance, context, and reality, and motivated enough to still vote, not everyone is. And every demoralized swing state Democrat that stays home in November after reading this equivocation all day every day on here, adds up real quick. Fwiw I vote far left down ballot. I primary'd Pelosi. Biden/Trump isn't the election for protest. It's not where we are today. I hate it. I despise genocide and American colonialism and imperialism. I've been trying to educate people for decades. But here we are. Never-Fascism and the continuity of free elections and human agency supercedes everything else.
Yeah I'm with ya, which why I'm so upset. Not just at the reaction here on Lemmy, but at the Biden admin for doing anything that gives ammo to the bOtH sIdEs bullshit.
He is absolutely going to lose votes in the general over his support of genocide - which in a vacuum is ofc completely justified. But the result is handing Trump the presidency on a silver platter, which, in addition to wiping Gaza off the map, will be devastating to pretty much everyone other than our enemies.
I feel like I'm stuck on a plane with blown out engines, watching out the window helplessly as we approach a mountain.
I'll still vote Biden in the general. Anything less is supporting open fascism here... But if I'm being honest, I don't see this ending well.
I saw your other post talking about the actual activism you've done. Taking that at face value: thank you. I don't understand how you aren't burnt out to the point of debilitation. I want to be like you when I grow up - and I mean that sincerely.
Yet again I agree, and I understand your perspective where I don't agree. The latter pretty much being the severity of open space for bad mouthing fearless blue leader bc people can't overcome the cognitive dissonance as well.
Hahaha not sure how old you are but I've noticed your username at this point and actually find a lot of your comments incredibly insightful and have expanded my perspective. Thank you. ...So you might already be better than grown up me.
Less burnout. More have trouble living in the present bc doom seems impending and unstoppable.
I love that this site is small enough to actually recognize people!
I'm in my mid 30s - I was a medic in the Air Force and a civ surgical tech now, both of which have pushed me hard to the left.
I've never participated in protests or anything, so in that regard I look up to you. No real thought into age with the whole 'when I grow up' bit lol.
As a surgical tech, I play a role in providing the kinds of care that Republicans relentlessly attack. Abortions, gender affirming surgery, etc. Health care. People need that shit.
Republicans' evil behavior surrounding healthcare really drove me to scrutinize the rest of the shit they advocate for, and whad'a ya know: even more evil!
So... that's the state of my head, lol.
Hahaha blessing and a curse...
I truly appreciate your service. Fwiw I've never helped my community the way you are every day. You're at the front line of what we keyboard warrior back and forth about on here. For you it's mundane table stakes bc you wake up and do it and go to bed and rinse repeat everyday. But you should take a moment to consider the significance of your contributions daily. You're probably underestimating your own merits.
Were you GOP previously? Curious, given the way you've described waking up.
I grew up in a very right-wing household, so when I started to be old enough to consider politics, I didn't question it: the left were the bad guys, period. This was reinforced by the kind of shit that stands out to an idiot teen, like Bill Clinton's affair.
George W. was my first slap in the face to bring me to my senses with his obvious bullshit in the Middle East, so I had a 'these guys are horrible too' epiphany. When I became old enough to vote, I was stuck in the 'both sides' trap and either opting out or pissing it away to the libertarian party.
I enlisted under Obama, and had a hard time criticizing him, so that's when I finally started to question the left=bad nonsense and realizing that it was in fact nonsense, and that the parents I didn't question were just politically morons. Started paying much more attention to actual policy vs just personalities, which started pushing me left.
Then Trump happened, and he was SO CLEARLY an enemy to the US - everything he did weakened us, strengthened our enemies, and right-wing voters were cheering the whole time. That was the kick in the ass that finally got me to cross the line. I haven't missed an election since, big or small - solid blue, as progressive as possible. I'll even look up people's voter registration when deciding things like judges or school board positions, etc to make sure I'm not giving any support that could even indirectly boost the GOP. Tired of this Nazi shit.
Went through your comment history to make sure I understand where you're coming from. And yep. We really do want the same things. I hope you consider my other comment when you see it, and work toward productive solutions. We can't turn on each other. This is the playbook. We're being socially engineered by well resourced psyops. It's not conspiracy theory. It's cyber warfare. I've worked in that industry on and off for 20 years and it's happening every second. Easier to destabilize the proletariat than middle man attack the CTO of the power plant or stock exchange's MFA so they shifted to social media years and years ago. Check out the alt right playbook: how to radicalize a normie.
If they ban all symbols of hatred in the US, forgetting the First Amendment of course, then there are fewer vectors in which to wage a culture war and keep people from chopping off the billionaires heads.
Swastikas are illegal in Germany. Confederate flags and tributes to proponents of slavery should be banned here. Fuck your first amendment bullshit. Ask historians about the one carve out in free speech. You do not extend it to fascists and to anti-democracy.
Why does there need to be any flags in the classrooms to begin with? Even putting up the flag of the country seems a little odd to me. Use a flagpole.
The effect would be felt by both LGBTQIA+ clubs and GSA's in the schools, at a bare minimum. They would be unable to utilize the pride flag, for example, in any kind of advertisement, logo, banner, etc.
I don't think school is the place for ads either.. I'm not saying it should be banned from posters about events or such but having a confederate or pride flag in the classroom just for the sake of it feels really weird to me.
In the past, rainbow flags were used as a sign to students that you as a teacher were available for anyone to come talk if they needed support, and that your classroom was a safe space. This was especially important for some of the most stigmatized and marginalized groups in the US.
So there is a bit of history behind it.
This may only be anecdotal, and I can't quote statistics on how effective or important pride flags are to that type of support now, but a close friend of mine who came out in high school first came out to a trusted teacher. They ONLY did this because the pride flag to them meant someone who might understand. It was a year or so later when this person came out to our friend group, and only because of the guidance of that individual who help them through some serious shit, and got them the support infrastructure they needed.
That is actually a valid point. I didn't really think about it from that perspective.
There is literally nothing wrong with the pride flag (or progress flag). There IS a problem with the confederate flag.
I would much rather my son or daughter learn to be accepting of their neighbors regardless of their sexuality, than to learn whatever kind of bullshit a pro-slavery person has to tell them about their "history".
So, if there is a school club they can't let people in the school know about it with posters, even though that's the only people they are trying to attract?
C'moon now.. Surely you can read the whole message before replying.
What do you think posters about events are if not ads?
I guess they count as ads aswell. I just don't get why deem necessary to ask me about event postest when it's the exact exception I already addressed in the message you're replying to.
So the exact thing I used in my message as an example of what I didn't mean?
Right, but that's what the language of the bill is intended to silence.
To remind those people of their place.
It's a heritage of hate.
Confederate fascism emerges in the south
Y'all... what the fuck is happening
Christofascism
The quiet laws are being written out loud now.
Stay classy, America's South...
Name names
I learned a bit about how Tennessee legislature works after the expulsion last year. It's frighteningly undemocratic, and it's scary to think that it's gotten even more undemocratic since then. Such a shame, I enjoyed my visit to Nashville a lot.
Same here on all accounts. We have been to Nashville a few times for concerts and we really don't like the fact that now we can't go back. We don't want to support the state. We still have cups we took home from the peg leg porker.
Seems premature, totally on brand for Tennessee.
...oh I meant the legislation. We haven't had the general election for the GOP to steal yet.
It'd be nice if legislators could just let people have whatever flags they want up.
Neither the Confederate flag nor gay pride flags are religious symbols, so it shouldn't really violate the church-state separation rules.
You could make a very easy case about one promoting discrimination.
Um, except one is an (inaccurate) symbol of oppression and hatred and the other represents freedom and expression...
Well, it was one of the battle flags, so it still is a symbol of oppression and hatred, with an added bit of violence thrown in.
It wasn't even a battle flag, just a portion of one. That's what I meant by 'inaccurate', but I don't want to get into the nuances because that could detect from the point.
Just to be clear, the point is: fuck racists and bigots. Their bullshit only detracts from civilization.
symbol of oppression and hatred
symbol of freedom and expression
centrists:
Ha, I don't have a middle finger big enough for that BS.
For when even "If you get yours then we get ours!" is too far left for your snowflake traitor ass.
One is unconstitutional to ban, while the other is treason.
I was honestly taken aback that the confederate flag is allowed to be displayed in public schools.
Those 4 years that they were treasonous to get rid of state rights to ban slavery is very important to their state history.
That's what we get for giving the Confederates Military burials instead of an unmarked mass graves for their murderous treachery in the name of slavery.
Mercy was a mistake.
Unironically, the leaders of the Confederacy should have been executed for treason.
Fuck Andrew Johnson.
Tennessee: We're not all bigots, but you shouldn't feel safe.
Tennesseean here, this is absolutely the case. I wish there was more I could do to welcome marginalized people, but the best advice I have is to get out of here as soon as possible because things are going to get worse before they get better.
I came to say the same thing.
But I'll say this- the nazis in Nashville the other week were only able to escape unscathed because we didn't know they were there.
Let's proudly expose our slavery heritage while banning a symbol of individual freedom and diversity.
Done in one.
Nashville has had a pride festival for the past thirty five years. They were a member of the confederacy for almost exactly five years.
BuT iTs our hiSTorY!!!
It's history they want to repeat, not the present they want to accept
1st amendment lawsuit, here we come!
That's great, but who's paying for that?
I'd bet actual money that the ACLU is already looking for a case to sponsor.
I don't know how many Supreme Court Justices the ACLU can afford.
If we all kick in $25 we might be able to buy Justice Boofer some coke and a beer....
I'll book a cruise for my very close friend Clarence
Oh he went there
Please use that betting money to sponsor the ACLU so they can sponsor a case.
The only Confederate flag that represents the Confederacy is 🏳️
Anything else trying to represent the confederacy is akin to a fucking high school class ring. Like "Gratz, bud. Got anything to show for it?"
It's actually even cooler than that. https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/nmah_515980
If by cooler you mean "belongs in the kitchen"
(I only say this to emasculate those that would feel emasculated by that).
It does look like a fucking tea towel.
That's literally what it is.
Also a dishrag that belongs in a kitchen: 28th Virginia Battle Flag
The union jack that you see flown (just a union jack) isn't even the flag of the confederacy, it's specifically the flag for the army and navy of the confederacy. You are identifying yourself as enemy combatants with that flag.
The real flag of the confederacy changed a couple times. The first iteration looks like a knock-off of the US flag with 3 stripes and 7 stars in a blue field in the upper left. The second iteration had the union jack in the upper left hand side (where the US blue field and stare are) and the rest was white. Eventually they realized that it looked like a flag of surrender, so 36 days before the end of the war, the confederacy added a vertical red stripe on the far right side of the flag.
If their "heritage" was so important, you'd think they'd at least get it right!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
But... they're showing you the class ring. That's what they got to show for it.
(This was entirely meant as a joke.)
Woah dude what year was that?
This ban is stupid and fuck those politicians, but this article is a little misleading and not a good source of information
They never explicitly voted to keep confederate flags. That being said, one of the many types of flags that are allowed are those deemed “protected historical items” as defined by TN Code § 4-1-412 which does include items relating to “any war, battle, or military conflict in which citizens of the United States or any state or territory of the United States have participated in”.
Funny enough, this law would allow you to carry an Iranian, Soviet, or other flag that would piss people off.
I would recommend this article if you want to learn more.
Florida has declared war on "woke". That should allow all kinds of flags.
Wait that allows for a lot of communist flags. American citizens join basically every army
Okay thank you for your information! I still wanna share a snarky quote from the article though even if it isn't technically true in the case
Is there any way to get a pride flag to qualify? Large scale protests seem like they could be historic (although IDK what the actual criteria is) and it would be funny if a protest against a law made the flag protected by the law.
Not really, no. The AP article has a list of every exemptions and it wouldn’t really qualify under any of them.
I bet you could hurt some feelings by flying the flag of the Seychelles.
(It's allowed cause the USA flew drone operations out of the Seychelles under the Obama administration.)
Wow! That flag is just BLASTING that color band at you lol. Awesome!
I dunno about Soviet.
Despite spending much of the last century aiming a gun at each other's head, we really never did much by way of actual direct fighting.
A small number of American soldiers were sent into Russia during the Russian revolution to safeguard arms that had been shipped in and try to help get the Czechoslovak Legion out, and there was a very limited amount of conflict with Bolshevik forces, but it wasn't the Soviet Union then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Force%2C_North_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Force%2C_Siberia
We had fighting with Soviet aircraft in Korea, but then the pilots were at least officially pretending to be Korean or Chinese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_the_Korean_War
It also allows flags from “other countries and their local governments,” which, as long as they don’t need to presently exist, should cover it. If they do, just fly the flag of Cusco, Peru
Th Soviet Union was one of our allies during WWII
banjo playin and cousin fuckin intensifies
Underage cousins*
*FTFY. Don't forget Republicans in a bunch of states have been fighting minimum marriage age laws on top of everything else.
"Ain't nobody fuckin' mah sister but me! I done put the work in!"
Your "heritage" lasted three years less than the Obama Administration.
So they are wilfully signalling that they're traitorous scum.
The whole right wing has a perpetual sedition boner.
I went to grade school in Mississippi, (Air Force brat, 1970's) and here are some fun facts:
My god, how far behind must the Utah schools have been for Mississippi schools to be ahead!
Right? It shocks me to this day. They were at least 6 mos behind the MS schools.
Wow Tennessee, what a shit hole it’s turning into.
Tennessee GOP quietly overturns marriage equality with immediate effect
Losers love losing. Deniers love denying. Traitors love treason. The GOP loves Trump's shit-crusted cock, but denies being his bottom.
Ban the confederate flag and prosecute anyone who flies it as an enemy of the state. We keep patting these traitors on the butt then shocked Pikachu-ing when they double down instead of magically seeing the error of their ways. I'm fucking over it and over watching dems use them as an excuse to scurry further right for "moderates" that have never and will never vote dem to please their corporate owners.
The election is coming up in.... now... We've had 4, 6, 8, yrs depending on the goal. I don't think anything just is happening in the next 251 days. I'm very afraid. And the left wing protest vote to elect Trump is such an irrational concept that the fact they believe is reasonable to any extent, already killing future votes of bystanders today, that I don't put it past them to be irrational and hand him Michigan and others on a platter.
You can screech about leftists all you want, if they're so important maybe it's time democrats work with them instead of spitting in their face then blaming em when dems lose.
Not the lefts fault dems are a stones throw from Republicans, hell look at your narrative - Dems move us towards fascism all the same but oh dems are the only hope to save our nation and leftists are "less than" plebs who are voting wrong by voting for what they feel is right instead of your party cause you say to.
Just admit it, yall love harping about trump because it gives you the high ground against anyone left of Biden - yall hate leftists and see them as enemies WAYYYYYYY more than you ever did Republicans or MAGAts.
I'm a socialist. For 30 years. An actual activist IRL. Beaten by cops for the first time at age 12, tear gassed multiple times, led protests in NYC, yadda yadda. Sorry, you called out the wrong Internet stranger. There's no y'all. I'm who you believe you are. I want what you purport to want. I also think your personal world view is not grounded in reality and reflects mental illness not that far off from the orange cult. Zero sum game.
The party taking women's agency and promoting fascism is worse than the party that is not. And if you cared about women, trans kids, black people, Muslims, refugees, LGBTQIA+ people, educators, healthcare workers, unionists, any person of color or member of any out group, you'd prioritize protecting them.
Who are you to sacrifice all those people for your ideological screeching about how you wish things were without any actual plan in mind to improve things?
Explain yourself. Don't whataboutism. Respond to the above. I don't think you can. You're selfish. You don't give a shit about other people. You're a loud snowflake troll. I know because I used to be you. Then I grew up and thought about the actual people around me, not the ideological ones I pretended to fight for.
What are you doing to protect your community besides proudly electing a government that stands for its demise, and the demise of your comrades? Seriously, I'm asking.
There's more of that dehumanization, "you disagree with me so you're mentally ill." More of that "only WE can save the country." Instead of making demands and throwing personal insults (also pretty faschie of you,) why don't you explain why dems SHOULDN'T work with leftists if leftists supposedly cost them every election they lose?
You can vote Biden to SaVe ThE wOrLd, but you ignore the long game for the now. Saving marginalized groups in the short term does NOT change that we're still moving further right towards fascism with either party. You're not saving anybody if you don't change the system that is pushing for those groups to be further marginalized. You're calling the bandaid the cure and fighting people who want a cure harder than you ever fought the people hurting those groups. Next time, dems will be three steps closer than they are now, but "vote blue no matter who!" time after, three more steps closer, but "blue no matter who!"
Each go around more and more extreme rhetoric and policy is normalized partially due to dems refusal to hold their feet to the fire. We're only a few elections away from the dems throwing trans people under the bus too to "court moderates." Then they'll keep creeping down the list same as Republicans, because any force to move them in any different direction is artificially snuffed.
You obviously think you're a hero voting dem, but all you're doing is voting for the end of democracy in 10 years instead of 5, so I'll see you on the other side brosef.
Okay, so you don't have an alternative solution, and both sides same. Got it. None of your thoughts or feelings matter, if there are no future elections.
And about that solution? You done whining snowflake?
I think most of the folks you're talking about are sincerely, above all else, 'not Trump.' and they get defensive at anything that could benefit Trump.
And that's honestly a defensible stance - Trump is an enemy to the US, so keeping him out of power is one of the more productive things any of us can advocate for.
...but other than that, I'm with you. I think it's important that we hold our own accountable and criticize where it's due... blind loyalty is dumb as fuck in any context. The amount of defensiveness and downvotes in response to things like people criticizing Biden for funneling our tax dollars into a genocide is frustrating. I think they mean well - again, 'not Trump' is beyond justified... but that shouldn't be a free pass for 'not Trump' to fund a genocide, and I can't fucking believe that's a controversial take. -_-
Hi. I also agree with you for the most part. Here's the problem. While you're intelligent enough to appreciate nuance, context, and reality, and motivated enough to still vote, not everyone is. And every demoralized swing state Democrat that stays home in November after reading this equivocation all day every day on here, adds up real quick. Fwiw I vote far left down ballot. I primary'd Pelosi. Biden/Trump isn't the election for protest. It's not where we are today. I hate it. I despise genocide and American colonialism and imperialism. I've been trying to educate people for decades. But here we are. Never-Fascism and the continuity of free elections and human agency supercedes everything else.
Yeah I'm with ya, which why I'm so upset. Not just at the reaction here on Lemmy, but at the Biden admin for doing anything that gives ammo to the bOtH sIdEs bullshit.
He is absolutely going to lose votes in the general over his support of genocide - which in a vacuum is ofc completely justified. But the result is handing Trump the presidency on a silver platter, which, in addition to wiping Gaza off the map, will be devastating to pretty much everyone other than our enemies.
I feel like I'm stuck on a plane with blown out engines, watching out the window helplessly as we approach a mountain.
I'll still vote Biden in the general. Anything less is supporting open fascism here... But if I'm being honest, I don't see this ending well.
I saw your other post talking about the actual activism you've done. Taking that at face value: thank you. I don't understand how you aren't burnt out to the point of debilitation. I want to be like you when I grow up - and I mean that sincerely.
Yet again I agree, and I understand your perspective where I don't agree. The latter pretty much being the severity of open space for bad mouthing fearless blue leader bc people can't overcome the cognitive dissonance as well.
Hahaha not sure how old you are but I've noticed your username at this point and actually find a lot of your comments incredibly insightful and have expanded my perspective. Thank you. ...So you might already be better than grown up me.
Less burnout. More have trouble living in the present bc doom seems impending and unstoppable.
I love that this site is small enough to actually recognize people!
I'm in my mid 30s - I was a medic in the Air Force and a civ surgical tech now, both of which have pushed me hard to the left.
I've never participated in protests or anything, so in that regard I look up to you. No real thought into age with the whole 'when I grow up' bit lol.
As a surgical tech, I play a role in providing the kinds of care that Republicans relentlessly attack. Abortions, gender affirming surgery, etc. Health care. People need that shit.
Republicans' evil behavior surrounding healthcare really drove me to scrutinize the rest of the shit they advocate for, and whad'a ya know: even more evil!
So... that's the state of my head, lol.
Hahaha blessing and a curse...
I truly appreciate your service. Fwiw I've never helped my community the way you are every day. You're at the front line of what we keyboard warrior back and forth about on here. For you it's mundane table stakes bc you wake up and do it and go to bed and rinse repeat everyday. But you should take a moment to consider the significance of your contributions daily. You're probably underestimating your own merits.
Were you GOP previously? Curious, given the way you've described waking up.
I grew up in a very right-wing household, so when I started to be old enough to consider politics, I didn't question it: the left were the bad guys, period. This was reinforced by the kind of shit that stands out to an idiot teen, like Bill Clinton's affair.
George W. was my first slap in the face to bring me to my senses with his obvious bullshit in the Middle East, so I had a 'these guys are horrible too' epiphany. When I became old enough to vote, I was stuck in the 'both sides' trap and either opting out or pissing it away to the libertarian party.
I enlisted under Obama, and had a hard time criticizing him, so that's when I finally started to question the left=bad nonsense and realizing that it was in fact nonsense, and that the parents I didn't question were just politically morons. Started paying much more attention to actual policy vs just personalities, which started pushing me left.
Then Trump happened, and he was SO CLEARLY an enemy to the US - everything he did weakened us, strengthened our enemies, and right-wing voters were cheering the whole time. That was the kick in the ass that finally got me to cross the line. I haven't missed an election since, big or small - solid blue, as progressive as possible. I'll even look up people's voter registration when deciding things like judges or school board positions, etc to make sure I'm not giving any support that could even indirectly boost the GOP. Tired of this Nazi shit.
Went through your comment history to make sure I understand where you're coming from. And yep. We really do want the same things. I hope you consider my other comment when you see it, and work toward productive solutions. We can't turn on each other. This is the playbook. We're being socially engineered by well resourced psyops. It's not conspiracy theory. It's cyber warfare. I've worked in that industry on and off for 20 years and it's happening every second. Easier to destabilize the proletariat than middle man attack the CTO of the power plant or stock exchange's MFA so they shifted to social media years and years ago. Check out the alt right playbook: how to radicalize a normie.
If they ban all symbols of hatred in the US, forgetting the First Amendment of course, then there are fewer vectors in which to wage a culture war and keep people from chopping off the billionaires heads.
Swastikas are illegal in Germany. Confederate flags and tributes to proponents of slavery should be banned here. Fuck your first amendment bullshit. Ask historians about the one carve out in free speech. You do not extend it to fascists and to anti-democracy.
Why does there need to be any flags in the classrooms to begin with? Even putting up the flag of the country seems a little odd to me. Use a flagpole.
The effect would be felt by both LGBTQIA+ clubs and GSA's in the schools, at a bare minimum. They would be unable to utilize the pride flag, for example, in any kind of advertisement, logo, banner, etc.
I don't think school is the place for ads either.. I'm not saying it should be banned from posters about events or such but having a confederate or pride flag in the classroom just for the sake of it feels really weird to me.
In the past, rainbow flags were used as a sign to students that you as a teacher were available for anyone to come talk if they needed support, and that your classroom was a safe space. This was especially important for some of the most stigmatized and marginalized groups in the US.
So there is a bit of history behind it.
This may only be anecdotal, and I can't quote statistics on how effective or important pride flags are to that type of support now, but a close friend of mine who came out in high school first came out to a trusted teacher. They ONLY did this because the pride flag to them meant someone who might understand. It was a year or so later when this person came out to our friend group, and only because of the guidance of that individual who help them through some serious shit, and got them the support infrastructure they needed.
That is actually a valid point. I didn't really think about it from that perspective.
There is literally nothing wrong with the pride flag (or progress flag). There IS a problem with the confederate flag.
I would much rather my son or daughter learn to be accepting of their neighbors regardless of their sexuality, than to learn whatever kind of bullshit a pro-slavery person has to tell them about their "history".
So, if there is a school club they can't let people in the school know about it with posters, even though that's the only people they are trying to attract?
C'moon now.. Surely you can read the whole message before replying.
What do you think posters about events are if not ads?
I guess they count as ads aswell. I just don't get why deem necessary to ask me about event postest when it's the exact exception I already addressed in the message you're replying to.
Dude, I mean high school clubs advertising to other high school students, like this one: https://www.coolidgeshs.org/ourpages/auto/2023/5/3/45488112/image%20_2_.jpg
So the exact thing I used in my message as an example of what I didn't mean?
Right, but that's what the language of the bill is intended to silence.
To remind those people of their place.
It's a heritage of hate.
Confederate fascism emerges in the south
Y'all... what the fuck is happening
Christofascism
The quiet laws are being written out loud now.
Stay classy, America's South...
Name names
I learned a bit about how Tennessee legislature works after the expulsion last year. It's frighteningly undemocratic, and it's scary to think that it's gotten even more undemocratic since then. Such a shame, I enjoyed my visit to Nashville a lot.
Same here on all accounts. We have been to Nashville a few times for concerts and we really don't like the fact that now we can't go back. We don't want to support the state. We still have cups we took home from the peg leg porker.
Seems premature, totally on brand for Tennessee.
...oh I meant the legislation. We haven't had the general election for the GOP to steal yet.
It'd be nice if legislators could just let people have whatever flags they want up.
Neither the Confederate flag nor gay pride flags are religious symbols, so it shouldn't really violate the church-state separation rules.
You could make a very easy case about one promoting discrimination.
Um, except one is an (inaccurate) symbol of oppression and hatred and the other represents freedom and expression...
Well, it was one of the battle flags, so it still is a symbol of oppression and hatred, with an added bit of violence thrown in.
It wasn't even a battle flag, just a portion of one. That's what I meant by 'inaccurate', but I don't want to get into the nuances because that could detect from the point.
Just to be clear, the point is: fuck racists and bigots. Their bullshit only detracts from civilization.
centrists:
Ha, I don't have a middle finger big enough for that BS.
For when even "If you get yours then we get ours!" is too far left for your snowflake traitor ass.