Disinformation Is Tearing America Apart
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Disinformation is the deliberate use of lies to manipulate people, whether to extract profit or to advance a political agenda. Its unwitting accomplice, misinformation, is spread by unknowing dupes who repeat lies they believe to be true. In America today, both forms of falsehood are distorting our perception of reality.
In a democracy, the people need a shared set of facts as a basis to debate and make decisions that advance and secure their collective interests. Differences of opinion, and even propaganda, have always existed in the United States, but now, enemies of democracy are using disinformation to attack our sovereign right to truthful information, intellectual integrity, and the exercise of the will of the people. Online disinformation is particularly insidious because of its immediacy, its capacity to deceive, and its ability to reach its target.
Conservatives never have facts and reason on their side, so they just drop them and stop caring for reality.
Speaking the truth and being right-wing are always mutually exclusive!
Not just the right.
Yeah but mostly.
Kinda irrelevant though. The Democratic party is our only real opportunity to defeat the Republican party. If the behavior of establishment Democrats, the ones who control the party, is knee capping our ability to do that it must be addressed.
Well yeah I totally agree there, I’m not a love it or leave it type. We should hold the people we support to the highest standard and be openly critical of issues, hypocrisy, and injustice. But it is mostly the other guys doing those three things be a pretty wide margin :P
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Wasn't it shown that e.g. Russia is targeting our side just as heavily?
The left don't fall for it as easily and they don't spread it as virulently, and when they do it's for what? Policies that generally benefit and are agreed on by enormous majorities of real people.
Did I miss the left not falling for Hunter Biden's laptop was not genuine? Or maybe the Steele dossier? Or maybe cloth masks will protect us from Covid?
I have not seen a single actual real left-leaning person who gives even half of a shit about Hunter's laptop, I think the most I heard about the Steele dossier was basically "we should look into that and see if it's legitimate or not," and cloth masks were never supposed to be a COVID killer, just a reasonable step to reduce transmission, much like the masks surgeons wear in surgery, and they remain even today a reasonable step to reduce airborne pathogens.
Did you just pop in from Bizarro-world?
edit: To be clear, we on the left do fall for misinformation and are coerced effectively constantly, but you chose terrible cases of this as examples.
Seems like maybe you missed the press about the Biden laptop being Russian disinformation, or the President himself calling it that during the debate?
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
The fact that the NY Post's Twitter account was suspended, and Twitter did not allow the link to the article shared on the platform even via DMs. While FB deamplified the news may have had an effect on the election. So obviously some left leaning individuals cared about it very much and wanted the news about it shut down prior to the election.
Conflating the actions of "left-leaning" politicians and political agents with left-leaning voters is disingenuous. I'm sure those up to their ears in the muck care about what's happening in the swamp; those of us on dry land only care about what leaves the swamp, not most of what happens in it. I have real-world conversations about politics with people frequently; I have never once heard the laptop come up in these real-world conversations with left-leaning friends and colleagues as anything more than footnote. I'm sure mileage varies, I won't claim to speak for everyone, but personally I doubt my experience in this regard is uncommon.
Liberals too, yeah.
Rational people don't go into politics.
People that believe in liberty have to go into politics if we are to maintain any of our liberty. Get your propaganda out of here.
"People that believe in liberty"
Like I said, rational people don't go into politics.
Liberty is not an obtainable goal but an ideal, defined as "the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views".
This idealistic principle is fundamentally incompatible with Democratic Society, because my liberty to breathe clean air is an oppressive restriction to those who want the liberty to pollute it and vice versa.
Any political idealist who promises to support "liberty" without clarification should be treated with suspicion, as that sort of rhetoric is only useful for distracting from more specific policy goals.
Eh, there's a difference between believing in liberty, and believing in all the liberty.
Hence, the need for clarification. "Liberty" is a meaningless buzzword unless the person using it is specific about whose liberty to do what.
I dunno, I think it's pretty clear that it's basic freedoms within the law. Words like Libertarian takes over after that, going into dismantling a lot of the existing laws.
It's all over the writings around the founding of our country, at any rate, so it's not going anywhere no matter how much people fuck around with it.
Seems to me like the founders had a very specific kind of liberty in mind and a very narrow fraction of the population it would apply to..
Pretty much, yea. Things like that are why we have an amendment process though.
Sure, but the amendment process is predicated upon broad agreement between the dominant political parties and hasn't been used in 30 years, for an amendment about congressional salaries that took over 200 years to be ratified.
As justice delayed is justice denied, I don't think we can rely on constitutional amendments as sufficient. It took almost 200 years to finally ban poll taxes despite this country's constant rhetoric about liberty and justice being for all.
I don't think justice was much in the founder's minds as much as self-determination. The two are not the same at all. Justice is a more recent value.
I believe in Liberty above all else. I also believe you cannot be moral and a politician, and that voting is an immoral act.
I sympathize with your view, but cannot buy in to it
Liberty to what and for whom?
For everyone. I give no fucks who you are, live your life as you see fit.
That's not Liberty, that's not even Anarchism.
What you're describing is the Law of the Jungle.
Always easy to tell when people are commenting in bad faith.
Right? Saying they're for "Liberty" without offering a clue as to what they mean by such a vague term.
Right wing disinformation is tearing America apart.
Both sides have pretty bad disinformation going on. Left is just more polished about it, I'm guessing because their demographic is on average much more educated. Right wing stuff you can at least immediately see right through.
Israel coverage from the main stream left has been stunning
LOL there's always a both sideser in here. I have this conversation with my brother weekly. He seems to think that the next time will convince me.
I mean the right is obviously much worse, straight up lies vs careful omission. Not trying to defend that since it kinda goes without saying around here.
For this tho when one of the fastest/widest margin bills to pass congress this past year is blocking foreign tech media because it might influence elections, while our domestic tech companies have already been proven to do that over and over for the past few elections it just shows neither side actually cares about misinformation, just controlling it for themselves
It’s specifically that they don’t want the Chinese government to have access to the data. They don’t care a bit about privacy though.
One side is backed by fiction and one side is backed by US intelligence? And where is this 'proof' domestic tech companies illegally influence American elections? Let's see it bub.
God it's impossible to keep up with people who are obsessed with defending the problems within the Democratic party. Is this not what happened in the 2016 general election now? I can't keep up with the shifting narratives used to excuse the failures of establishment Democrats.
Sure, be scared of the tech bogeymen forever then. If I recall all three branches of your government were repub for half a turn and you're still getting ass fucked.
Here's a video explaining why your brother is right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVy_a9u8CeQ
And there's the "here's a YouTube video that explains EVERYTHING" guy, right on schedule
No problem. Since the youtube video does indeed explain everything.
I could link you the Manufacturing Consent book too but that seems rather long for your simple question.
No it doesn't.
Nobody asked a question, dipshit
Is that the sound of a liberal that can't explain why his government refuses to call the Genocide israel commits a Genocide?
No, it's the sound of me pointing out that you can try to spread this garbage everywhere but none of us are falling for it
Oops can't explain that question of course. Gotta keep dodging it.
No, I literally answered your stupid question, keep up.
Basic reading comprehension is fucking hard for you, init?
I couldn't read you explaining why the Democrats are supporting a Genocide.
And that is the sound of someone going ad hominem when they feel insecure.
if you could explain it, why didn't you?
Because Linker and you both have a history of willful stupidity
Which you of course know because you've been told this many times
your characterization of other users doesn't absolve you for having to defend your position.
And redirecting too! Wow, you're managed to hit several of the bad faith talking points that conservatives use.
i just got here. tone it down.
>bad faith talking points that conservatives use.
this is pigeonholing
Can't respond to that one because you know I'm right. Quick pivot.
My last message and I am disengaging from you since neither you nor any of this are worth my effort. You can't point at someone and say "see, you don't have the answers to everything therefore I win, checkmate, home run, idiot". If you had a real point to make, you'd have done so long ago. Instead, you're just slinging a bunch of turds around and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done. I'm here to tell you that you have failed to convinced a single person of anything you said. Further, you may not actually believe anything you say and only say it in an attempt to feel better than others. Both of these things are very unhealthy and are something that you should resolve for your own health and safety.
/out
Long comment zero content. You have proven my point
Leftists aren't liberals and liberals aren't leftists. Everyone knows both parties are bad. One is worse though.
LOL like I'm going to watch some rando's favorite youtube video.
Lol lmao
See, the problem can’t be capitalism because to do away with that would change things. And change scares me. So, I want to conserve what we have now. But, don’t call me a conservative. /s
Your comment literally started with "both sides"... Just ZERO self awareness.
Disinformation from establishment Democrats is enabling the Republican party. We can hate Republicans all we like but establishment Democrats are trying to walk this tightrope between fascism and worker empowerment. Every time they lose their balance they shift to the right. We will be unable to defeat the Republican party until we root out the corruption of the Democratic party.
Democrats are not leftists
Name one leftist show on a main stream channel.
It's the disinformation alright, but it's the disinformation from billionaires dividing us so they can get away with all the wealth while we fight for scraps. The call is coming from inside the house.
This is it. I have been chastised for suggesting that many social problems are red herrings to distract us from the one true problem, that it's us versus them. Until that problem is solved, nothing else can be.
it drives me nuts, I've got formerly lefty friends who drifted right due to disillusionment with their pet issue. one began their drift via the antivax movement, their personal grudge against the medical system has them now embracing every far right conspiracy out there. so yeah, I believe folks find what they seek, and those who are doing the pulling have figured out the exact temperature of smoke to blow up people's asses.
If you can't turn someone red, just make them a single issue voter.
Voting blue can hurt sometimes as a gun-owning Texan, but I do what I must. I didn't always have that mentality.
serious question, why does it hurt? I'm not a gun owner but I don't see much that the left is doing that is actually endangering your rights. I do see a lot of fearmongering from the right but as far as I can tell it's entirely bloviating. I mean, the bluest of blue areas still have extremely liberal gun laws and what I see being proposed from the left is more or less common sense reforms. Obviously there are outliers but I don't see that agenda having much success. In fact, I have some very strong gun rights friends who are entirely and proudly progressive.
I hang out in enough blue spaces to see the cries for renewed bans on particular styles of guns. A lot of the stuff I own in Texas would already be a felony to own in NY and Cali.
There also appears to be a variety of definitions for "common sense" gun laws, and it seems to depend largely on an individual's locality. Universal background checks is a no-brainer, but I'd like to keep my semi-auto rifle and standard capacity mags.
Besides, everyone knows it's actually handguns that are responsible for a vast majority of violent crimes involving firearms, which potentially makes them next up on the chopping block once the precedent is set by the first ban of a style of firearm that's rarely used in violent gun crimes rarely in comparison.
Thanks for the reply. I kinda get some of the concern with the proposed bans, I do think there has been some misguided attempts. From a non-gun owner’s perspective though, I’ve never really thought they seemed fatal to the hobby, just an annoyance more or less and the sort of thing that with sane legislation would work itself out over time. I mean, I’m a car guy but I’ve made peace with the fact that we won’t see popup headlights ever again..
Same with the handgun thing, but like regulations on other things, over time effectivity will win out and sensibility may be found. Maybe I’m too hopeful though.
Appreciate the response..
It’s usually feelings over facts. Or I just love when they tell you to Google it. Then you do and prove them wrong and then they tell you that’s the wrong site lol Republicans really made the uneducated loud and annoying.
My dad was trying to tell me that the COVID vaccine is dangerous, so he googled it, sent me a blog with the Google link in it, then got upset when I found that the source that blogger used said "those who are able to be vaccinated help those who cannot be vaccinated." This was all because of my and my wife's request to get the vaccine to meet our 3 month old.
He didn't like that I did actual research on his partisan blog to prove him wrong.
People have a desire to be correct in their beliefs, and they have found comfort in disinformation instead of having to change or reflect on dated world views.
They aren't being tricked, they actively seek and embrace the disinformation.
Counterpoint: idiots who never question things they want to hear are tearing America apart.
It's really hard to educate 80% of the public.
Especially when a right wing pet protect for about 50 years now has been dismantling public education to churn out soft brained, frightened voters primed to be republicans.
Shouldn't have made propaganda legal then, fuckers.
I guess you can't put the blame on that on one individual person, but if you could it would be Ronald fucking Reagan.
For it to work, people first need to be uneducated and indoctrinated. That's the real issue.
This is simply not true, and this kind of belief--that misinformation only works on "other people"--is part of the problem.
When routine bites hard and ambitions are low
And resentment rides high but emotions won't grow
And we're changing our ways, taking different roads
Then disinformation will tear us apart again
No it's not.
/s 😉
I mean, folks from Time Magazine suddenly deciding misinformation is a problem...
https://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2016-donald-trump/
And that's not even touching its hagiographies of various Evangelical ministers from Billy Graham (1954, 1993, 1996, 2007) and Jimmy Swaggart and Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker (both in the glorious year of 1987). An assortment of nine Catholic Bishops scored nine covers (the last in 1966), and of course eight Popes have worn the red frame more thirty-three times. And then there's the straight-up pandering Jesus-y editions.
Today it's going to be "Has misinformation gone too far?!" and tomorrow its going to be Inside the Uranium Underworld: Dark Secrets, Dirty Bombs and another excuse to march to war.
By design.
The irony of this being posted on Lemmy.
you could have just said "the internet" and the point would still apply
My popcorn is ready.
A-fuckin-goddamn-men.
Check my comment history, it's 50/50 extreme self loathing and bitching about propaganda lol
Supposing America it's a democracy it's enough disinformation.. LMAO..
The majority of people are against funding a genocide yet we're full tilt killing woman and children with Made In America weapons. We are not a democracy. Just an illusion of choice.
The Biden government is straight up denying their support for a Genocide as if they are CCP China.
Only consume government propaganda everyone!
I think they're talking about who won the last election and whether covid vaccines are harmful, but ok ... Can't even start to address the Israel lobby until fptp voting and the ec are abolished
Get your priorities and timelines straight.
Biden and establishment democrats will never allow this. I really wish people would stop saying this as if it's some kind of viable solution. It has no more chance of becoming reality than medicare for all with the current power structures in place. They either need to change or we need a different approach.
Denying and facilitating a brutal Genocide is a bit more extreme than saying they're turning the frogs gay.
I'd say the Genocide thing has priority.
This would matter more if the other party didn't outright cheer for and support that genocide.
You realize this kind of response just makes people ask if our "democracy" is even worth defending at this point. If discussions about supporting genocide "don't matter" then it's already over. We lost.
You commend hypocrisy?
sounds right
the current regime in power here in the US is pushing out propaganda that stretches the truth such as the one proclaiming our economy is the envy of the world at accelerated rates
Have you seen the world's economy at the moment?
I see most other countries with reliable public transportation meaning they were not impacted by inflation costs of vehicles and insurance. I see most other countries with socialized healthcare meaning they were not impacted by inflation costs of health insurance, premiums, co-pays and healthcare in general. I see most other countries have much better protections for renters which makes home ownership less of a necessity and therefore less impacted by inflation there.
Newsflash, people don't look at the GDP and go "Oh my life is great!"