Well, every body is different. It's just like other clothing, too, but involves more detail, but basically a piece that fits person A will not fit person B.
One way to solve this is to go to a real specialist shop instead of the normal retail shops or online sources. My wife did this after surgery, as her sizes changed, and they measured her up and found the right "layout" for her. She said it is a difference like day and night.
My wife did the same and while they cost 4 times as much as regular ones, she also said that the difference is unbelievable.
Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of machine that scans your chest area to find the right fit and a line of custom fit premium solutions? Such as what we do for shoe insoles.
I think a normal measuring tape could work. I went to a place and they measured my chest above/below my breasts and then across the center and lower part of my breasts. The issue is the cost for premium bras are often out of the price range for most people.
I can't say much about bras, but as a former Buyer for a chain of high end bicycle shops, y'all are hard. We were focused on road bikes where everything down to the clothing fit is critical. I tried really hard to keep a good selection on hand, but even in the limited mostly ultra fit demographic, the size, cut, and fit range for women's clothing is almost impossible to cover.
Women's was a small segment for us. Most shops won't carry much of anything. Indeed, we ran at a minimized loss margin to carry stuff. This is ultra niche specific and completely tangential, but it might help show a bit of behind the scenes retail. Carrying a large range of sizes, cuts, and styles of any clothing type is an overburden inventory nightmare. The issues are always the oddball extras that everyone gets stuck with and can't offload anywhere near cost. All the time and labor of managing it is also an issue. The way women's sections are always left in terrible shape is also a major contributing cost factor in overall stock costs. Having experienced life as a Buyer, the bra sections of most department stores look like break even inventory at best IMO.
Basically what you're saying is we can't have nice things because capitalism.
I mean I'm not in the bra buying demographic but I can still understand that it's an issue and it sucks for women.
Yeah, if there's anything that history and economics tells us, is that capitalism leads to less choice, whereas communism leads to many choices tailored to everyone individually
I don't think history has ever given us communism, so there's no way to know.
Oh no, here comes the No True Scotsman again…
If you see an Englishman in a kilt, it’s ok to say he’s no true Scotsman. See, “no true Scotsman” is only a problem if person/movement A IS actually fulfulling the functions of role B. And if you can read Marx and find a government that consistently tried to follow his writings, I’ll be very impressed and concede the point. (Though then we can talk about the difference between Marxism and other forms of socialism.)
Yeah, communism leads to empty shelves in stores, so people are pleasantly surprised by any goods at all.
See, logistics and capitalism don't have to be tied together. A business at the end of the day needs money to stay in business. If people were willing to pay a bunch of extra money to have stuff that fits them right, it wouldn't be so hard to keep it all in stock. It's when you combine cheap prices, dozens of combinations of sizes and styles, customers that expect an employee will clean up their mess, and the need for immediate availability that things start to crumble.
Bingo
I think it would still be an inventory nightmare to manage under socialism or communism.
The workers would produce their own bras.
It's more that the wide variety of body shapes makes cheaply available, well-fitting clothes difficult. You can certainly have nice things in capitalism, you just have to have them custom made. The difficulties in making and widely distributing clothes that comfortably conform to the complex female firm are present in any economic model. The best comfortable solution is custom-made items, but that requires a great deal of time, labor, and resources.
Because you can't mass produce cheap crap and have a perfect fit customised to your exact shape.
I'd say that it's probably doable if you had someone to measure and hand to make it for you.
It would be a grand step forward if they just redesigned underwires not to stick out of the f****** things. Literally just capping the wires with a piece of plastic that costs 10th of a penny would be a significant improvement.
Perhaps you're supposed to take the wire out to wash them?
None of the ones in my wife's collection are removable.
Just expensive and nobody takes the time to get fitted for them.
I like this bra from Hanes. I find it comfortable and painless. It says "hand wash only" I wash it in the washing machine and buy a new one once or twice a year. I hope you find a bra that is right for you.
They look so comfy
Sports bras all the way.
Boobs are all different, is the issue. We may have the same bra size but if Im full on top and you're full on bottom we'd need a completely different cup shape. And of course that's just one variable. Maybe we also need a totally different length underwire, maybe I'm projected and you're shallow, etc etc.
The trick is to order a load of bras at once from various brands and in various styles, do a marathon try-on session recording each one against the various fit criteria, and take note of the exact measurements and features of the best fitting ones. Then if none of them were perfect, send them all back and repeat the process.
Eventually you end up knowing which brand(s) and style(s) work for your very specific body shape as well as what measurements of everything you actually need. Which is a separate thing to your "bra size" although even then it's best to do regular re-measuring to make sure your basic size hasn't changed.
It's a faff but it's worth it. The perfect bra is out there!
Sorry but this depends a lot on each person's body. I am a B/C cup depending on brands, and most bras fit me comfortably for daily use.
B/C cup depending on brands,
That's indicative of the problem. No 2 brands can even agree on sizing, let alone shape or any of the other factors needed for proper fit and support.
I guess, it's no different than shoes in that regard. Or most clothing.
Yeah, I recently found out that even though men's pants sizes are denoted by inches, they still vary across brands. It's all bullshit.
Still doesn't make it reasonable.
Honestly, I think the answer is because keeping breasts pointed forward, against the forces of gravity requires extra support, and as a species, we haven't been wearing bras long enough adapt to that.
That and the fact that average breast size has increased significantly in the last few decades
Do you think that's growth hormones in our food or selective breeding?
People gettin fatter
In the long term, no one is quite sure what it is that causes humans to have permanent breasts, given that no other primates do. There are theories around fertility signalling, evolutionary selection via mate preference, extra insulation given the lack of body hair in humans, extra fat deposits to get breast feeding folk through feeding a new born in times of scarcity etc, but no one can say for sure...
But none of that has anything to do with why breast size has increased so significantly in the last several decades. Circumstantial evidence links that to increasing body weight, as the most significant increases are in countries with the biggest average increase in body weight.
My wife has tried several bra brands. She landed on Branwyn merino wool bralettes, which she loves. Very comfy and great airflow. I'll mention, she is smaller and prefers bralettes over more supportive bras, so your mileage might vary.
Because they would have to be tailor-made.
Well, there probably is one for you but it will be a different one from what's good for me or someone else. I don't even wear a bra most of the time and that's comfortable for me, and a soft stretchy bralette thing with minimal padding for work. Because I don't need support, so no bra is more comfortable than any bra.
It's like shoes more than anything else. More than two measurements would be better, we need length, width and depth measurements on them.
I think they could get much closer on fit with one more dimension in the sizing, for depth or volume separate from wire size. Right now anything with a wire that fits me has too much volume in the cups because I'm small busted - shallow shape, not small around . The ones with the correct volume have a wire shape too small - shot glass when I need champagne glass, basically.
Logistics. It's all about fit and between dimensions of shoulders, chest width and breast size it's a profit maximizing logistics nightmare.
Because they're an unnatural device created by a need for puritan modesty and 'fashion'. They're also detrimental to your posture, and your tits. Think about always riding in a wheel chair, what kind of shape are your legs going to be in? Breast may not have muscle in them, the supporting tissues do.
Greek and Roman woman wore primitive bands during athletics. It wasn’t about modesty, it was about support and not having your tits bounce around. It was a tool. Ditto for guys and briefs, but tits can weigh a hell of a lot more.
Modesty is part of contemporary usage, but it ain’t all about modesty. Undergarments are functional tools as well. Humans make all sorts of tools to make their bodies get around more efficiently.
I appreciate this distinction.
I have massive tits and I am physically active. I also have a physically demanding job. I think people (mostly men but also women with smaller breasts) don't realize how much they just straight up get in the way!
And I'm nearing 40. And have had a child! They get pendulous real quick and I have a feeling by the time I retire I'll be able to tuck them into my waistband! I am a liberated woman! I come from hippies! I even went a couple years completely without a bra! Strapping these fuckers out of the way has nothing to do with a fear they are sinful or might be seen and everything to do with not having the time to bat them out of the way every thirty seconds.
I also hate the pivot from "we need better boob operator equipment" to "Well akshyually if you didn't wear bras at all it wouldn't be a problem." Okay fucko you think you have all the answers about why breasts are saggy, how about addressing the problem?
Yeah I'm a man but I have a wife and quite a few friends with medium to large chest extensions and I do not envy them - the inconvenience looks like a right pain in the hole. I find running for a bus bad enough in the morning without having to worry about things getting out of control up there. Unless you're planning on being stationary a lot (basically not doing day to day activities) you're going to need support for those things.
My wife keeps trying to arrange a free bra fitting at M&S but it seems like that's a high demand service...
She can try measuring herself first using this calculator, then she can try a couple of different styles to see which ones fit her better.
Athletics and every daily use are completely different issues. Guys don't wear a jock strap every day.
Lots of guys wake up everyday and wear briefs and boxer briefs over boxers or going commando because they like the support. Hell, Saxx underwear is huge right now, and their whole thing is about providing support. And that’s for some junk that can weigh a lot less than a pair of tits.
Jock straps are to hold a cup so you don't get your balls smashed while playing sports. You only wear one in sports that involve a lot of risk of that happening.
A dick doesn’t weigh anywhere near what my size G tits do either, bro. Maybe back up when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I switched to the boxer briefs with a little pouch in the front for your junk, and it is amazing! I've still got a few pairs of the older ones, but I don't wear them if I have the chance because the extra support is so much more comfortable!
So, you should probably just stop talking since you don't have any clue what you're talking about here.
The need for support varies a LOT with size. I never wear a bra in my own home, and I rip the underwires out of the ones I wear outside. My breasts sag, but that's normal at 60+. But I'm a C cup, so they're only protruding about 3 inches even when supported. And I only do low-impact workouts for other reasons. I wear bras to put my boobs in the parts of my clothes that are designed to have boobs in them, rather than falling out the armholes or something.
A large-breasted woman with three or four times the pounds of flesh hanging off her ribcage is not going to be comfortable slinging them around braless all day, especially when they get out of sync, as boobs are wont to do when you're moving around. Especially if she's running or jumping. Her bra has to work hard, and requires more engineering than mine. She and I have the same underlying muscles, tendons and bones, but her whole balance is under much more stress.
Meanwhile for an A cup woman a bra is probably mostly for fashion. She could have completely flabby musculature underneath and they'd still be perky.
If men had balls the size of boobs they would understand better how they can get in the way. And go 2 different ways! And it would probably be difficult to design comfortable underwear for them.
Bras were invented by women, for themselves, for their own comfort. Yes, SOME bras are unnatural and fashion-driven, and even those serve an occasional purpose. If you're a woman who doesn't ever wear a bra, great! Enjoy! Nobody should ever force anyone to wear a bra against their will. But if you choose to go braless, remember it's not necessary to disparage the women who make a different choice for their own reasons.
You're alluding to leg atrophy from wheel chair use, but could you go ahead and explain how you believe not wearing a bra would be less detrimental to your tits?
(I don't disagree where you say it's bad for your posture, and I'm not even sure I disagree with you saying it's bad for your tits, which is why I'm asking for a clearer explanation. Maybe I just don't understand what you mean by "detrimental")
Every day motion keeps the supporting pectoral muscles in better shape. Strenuous exercise, or large breasts, tend to tip things the other way, because the supportive tissues don't build up the way muscles do. Topless yoga is great, topless 100m dash, not so much.
Basically, since the bra is holding up the breasts, the body isn't putting as much into the ligaments and such that would normally do the job. Resulting in saggier breasts than would result if you didn't wear one as often.
I don't know how much formal research has been done on it, but that's the usual line of thought.
Do they not have National Geographic anymore? I mean there are whole cultures who never wear bras and as a rule they're not "perky"
Maurice Moss almost managed it, but unfortunately he had an overheating problem
Well done.
(Just for those unaware, this is a reference to the show "The IT Crowd", great sit com style comedy)
https://youtu.be/eUEemQeInjE?feature=shared
Well, every body is different. It's just like other clothing, too, but involves more detail, but basically a piece that fits person A will not fit person B.
One way to solve this is to go to a real specialist shop instead of the normal retail shops or online sources. My wife did this after surgery, as her sizes changed, and they measured her up and found the right "layout" for her. She said it is a difference like day and night.
My wife did the same and while they cost 4 times as much as regular ones, she also said that the difference is unbelievable.
Wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of machine that scans your chest area to find the right fit and a line of custom fit premium solutions? Such as what we do for shoe insoles.
I think a normal measuring tape could work. I went to a place and they measured my chest above/below my breasts and then across the center and lower part of my breasts. The issue is the cost for premium bras are often out of the price range for most people.
I can't say much about bras, but as a former Buyer for a chain of high end bicycle shops, y'all are hard. We were focused on road bikes where everything down to the clothing fit is critical. I tried really hard to keep a good selection on hand, but even in the limited mostly ultra fit demographic, the size, cut, and fit range for women's clothing is almost impossible to cover.
Women's was a small segment for us. Most shops won't carry much of anything. Indeed, we ran at a minimized loss margin to carry stuff. This is ultra niche specific and completely tangential, but it might help show a bit of behind the scenes retail. Carrying a large range of sizes, cuts, and styles of any clothing type is an overburden inventory nightmare. The issues are always the oddball extras that everyone gets stuck with and can't offload anywhere near cost. All the time and labor of managing it is also an issue. The way women's sections are always left in terrible shape is also a major contributing cost factor in overall stock costs. Having experienced life as a Buyer, the bra sections of most department stores look like break even inventory at best IMO.
Basically what you're saying is we can't have nice things because capitalism.
I mean I'm not in the bra buying demographic but I can still understand that it's an issue and it sucks for women.
Yeah, if there's anything that history and economics tells us, is that capitalism leads to less choice, whereas communism leads to many choices tailored to everyone individually
I don't think history has ever given us communism, so there's no way to know.
Oh no, here comes the No True Scotsman again…
If you see an Englishman in a kilt, it’s ok to say he’s no true Scotsman. See, “no true Scotsman” is only a problem if person/movement A IS actually fulfulling the functions of role B. And if you can read Marx and find a government that consistently tried to follow his writings, I’ll be very impressed and concede the point. (Though then we can talk about the difference between Marxism and other forms of socialism.)
Yeah, communism leads to empty shelves in stores, so people are pleasantly surprised by any goods at all.
See, logistics and capitalism don't have to be tied together. A business at the end of the day needs money to stay in business. If people were willing to pay a bunch of extra money to have stuff that fits them right, it wouldn't be so hard to keep it all in stock. It's when you combine cheap prices, dozens of combinations of sizes and styles, customers that expect an employee will clean up their mess, and the need for immediate availability that things start to crumble.
Bingo
I think it would still be an inventory nightmare to manage under socialism or communism.
The workers would produce their own bras.
It's more that the wide variety of body shapes makes cheaply available, well-fitting clothes difficult. You can certainly have nice things in capitalism, you just have to have them custom made. The difficulties in making and widely distributing clothes that comfortably conform to the complex female firm are present in any economic model. The best comfortable solution is custom-made items, but that requires a great deal of time, labor, and resources.
Because you can't mass produce cheap crap and have a perfect fit customised to your exact shape.
I'd say that it's probably doable if you had someone to measure and hand to make it for you.
It would be a grand step forward if they just redesigned underwires not to stick out of the f****** things. Literally just capping the wires with a piece of plastic that costs 10th of a penny would be a significant improvement.
Perhaps you're supposed to take the wire out to wash them?
None of the ones in my wife's collection are removable.
Just expensive and nobody takes the time to get fitted for them.
I like this bra from Hanes. I find it comfortable and painless. It says "hand wash only" I wash it in the washing machine and buy a new one once or twice a year. I hope you find a bra that is right for you.
They look so comfy
Sports bras all the way.
Boobs are all different, is the issue. We may have the same bra size but if Im full on top and you're full on bottom we'd need a completely different cup shape. And of course that's just one variable. Maybe we also need a totally different length underwire, maybe I'm projected and you're shallow, etc etc.
The trick is to order a load of bras at once from various brands and in various styles, do a marathon try-on session recording each one against the various fit criteria, and take note of the exact measurements and features of the best fitting ones. Then if none of them were perfect, send them all back and repeat the process.
Eventually you end up knowing which brand(s) and style(s) work for your very specific body shape as well as what measurements of everything you actually need. Which is a separate thing to your "bra size" although even then it's best to do regular re-measuring to make sure your basic size hasn't changed.
It's a faff but it's worth it. The perfect bra is out there!
Sorry but this depends a lot on each person's body. I am a B/C cup depending on brands, and most bras fit me comfortably for daily use.
That's indicative of the problem. No 2 brands can even agree on sizing, let alone shape or any of the other factors needed for proper fit and support.
I guess, it's no different than shoes in that regard. Or most clothing.
Yeah, I recently found out that even though men's pants sizes are denoted by inches, they still vary across brands. It's all bullshit.
Still doesn't make it reasonable.
Honestly, I think the answer is because keeping breasts pointed forward, against the forces of gravity requires extra support, and as a species, we haven't been wearing bras long enough adapt to that.
That and the fact that average breast size has increased significantly in the last few decades
Do you think that's growth hormones in our food or selective breeding?
People gettin fatter
In the long term, no one is quite sure what it is that causes humans to have permanent breasts, given that no other primates do. There are theories around fertility signalling, evolutionary selection via mate preference, extra insulation given the lack of body hair in humans, extra fat deposits to get breast feeding folk through feeding a new born in times of scarcity etc, but no one can say for sure...
But none of that has anything to do with why breast size has increased so significantly in the last several decades. Circumstantial evidence links that to increasing body weight, as the most significant increases are in countries with the biggest average increase in body weight.
My wife has tried several bra brands. She landed on Branwyn merino wool bralettes, which she loves. Very comfy and great airflow. I'll mention, she is smaller and prefers bralettes over more supportive bras, so your mileage might vary.
Because they would have to be tailor-made.
Well, there probably is one for you but it will be a different one from what's good for me or someone else. I don't even wear a bra most of the time and that's comfortable for me, and a soft stretchy bralette thing with minimal padding for work. Because I don't need support, so no bra is more comfortable than any bra.
It's like shoes more than anything else. More than two measurements would be better, we need length, width and depth measurements on them.
I think they could get much closer on fit with one more dimension in the sizing, for depth or volume separate from wire size. Right now anything with a wire that fits me has too much volume in the cups because I'm small busted - shallow shape, not small around . The ones with the correct volume have a wire shape too small - shot glass when I need champagne glass, basically.
Logistics. It's all about fit and between dimensions of shoulders, chest width and breast size it's a profit maximizing logistics nightmare.
Because they're an unnatural device created by a need for puritan modesty and 'fashion'. They're also detrimental to your posture, and your tits. Think about always riding in a wheel chair, what kind of shape are your legs going to be in? Breast may not have muscle in them, the supporting tissues do.
Greek and Roman woman wore primitive bands during athletics. It wasn’t about modesty, it was about support and not having your tits bounce around. It was a tool. Ditto for guys and briefs, but tits can weigh a hell of a lot more.
Modesty is part of contemporary usage, but it ain’t all about modesty. Undergarments are functional tools as well. Humans make all sorts of tools to make their bodies get around more efficiently.
I appreciate this distinction.
I have massive tits and I am physically active. I also have a physically demanding job. I think people (mostly men but also women with smaller breasts) don't realize how much they just straight up get in the way!
And I'm nearing 40. And have had a child! They get pendulous real quick and I have a feeling by the time I retire I'll be able to tuck them into my waistband! I am a liberated woman! I come from hippies! I even went a couple years completely without a bra! Strapping these fuckers out of the way has nothing to do with a fear they are sinful or might be seen and everything to do with not having the time to bat them out of the way every thirty seconds.
I also hate the pivot from "we need better boob operator equipment" to "Well akshyually if you didn't wear bras at all it wouldn't be a problem." Okay fucko you think you have all the answers about why breasts are saggy, how about addressing the problem?
Yeah I'm a man but I have a wife and quite a few friends with medium to large chest extensions and I do not envy them - the inconvenience looks like a right pain in the hole. I find running for a bus bad enough in the morning without having to worry about things getting out of control up there. Unless you're planning on being stationary a lot (basically not doing day to day activities) you're going to need support for those things.
My wife keeps trying to arrange a free bra fitting at M&S but it seems like that's a high demand service...
She can try measuring herself first using this calculator, then she can try a couple of different styles to see which ones fit her better.
Athletics and every daily use are completely different issues. Guys don't wear a jock strap every day.
Lots of guys wake up everyday and wear briefs and boxer briefs over boxers or going commando because they like the support. Hell, Saxx underwear is huge right now, and their whole thing is about providing support. And that’s for some junk that can weigh a lot less than a pair of tits.
Jock straps are to hold a cup so you don't get your balls smashed while playing sports. You only wear one in sports that involve a lot of risk of that happening.
A dick doesn’t weigh anywhere near what my size G tits do either, bro. Maybe back up when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I switched to the boxer briefs with a little pouch in the front for your junk, and it is amazing! I've still got a few pairs of the older ones, but I don't wear them if I have the chance because the extra support is so much more comfortable!
So, you should probably just stop talking since you don't have any clue what you're talking about here.
The need for support varies a LOT with size. I never wear a bra in my own home, and I rip the underwires out of the ones I wear outside. My breasts sag, but that's normal at 60+. But I'm a C cup, so they're only protruding about 3 inches even when supported. And I only do low-impact workouts for other reasons. I wear bras to put my boobs in the parts of my clothes that are designed to have boobs in them, rather than falling out the armholes or something.
A large-breasted woman with three or four times the pounds of flesh hanging off her ribcage is not going to be comfortable slinging them around braless all day, especially when they get out of sync, as boobs are wont to do when you're moving around. Especially if she's running or jumping. Her bra has to work hard, and requires more engineering than mine. She and I have the same underlying muscles, tendons and bones, but her whole balance is under much more stress.
Meanwhile for an A cup woman a bra is probably mostly for fashion. She could have completely flabby musculature underneath and they'd still be perky.
If men had balls the size of boobs they would understand better how they can get in the way. And go 2 different ways! And it would probably be difficult to design comfortable underwear for them.
Bras were invented by women, for themselves, for their own comfort. Yes, SOME bras are unnatural and fashion-driven, and even those serve an occasional purpose. If you're a woman who doesn't ever wear a bra, great! Enjoy! Nobody should ever force anyone to wear a bra against their will. But if you choose to go braless, remember it's not necessary to disparage the women who make a different choice for their own reasons.
You're alluding to leg atrophy from wheel chair use, but could you go ahead and explain how you believe not wearing a bra would be less detrimental to your tits?
(I don't disagree where you say it's bad for your posture, and I'm not even sure I disagree with you saying it's bad for your tits, which is why I'm asking for a clearer explanation. Maybe I just don't understand what you mean by "detrimental")
Every day motion keeps the supporting pectoral muscles in better shape. Strenuous exercise, or large breasts, tend to tip things the other way, because the supportive tissues don't build up the way muscles do. Topless yoga is great, topless 100m dash, not so much.
Basically, since the bra is holding up the breasts, the body isn't putting as much into the ligaments and such that would normally do the job. Resulting in saggier breasts than would result if you didn't wear one as often.
I don't know how much formal research has been done on it, but that's the usual line of thought.
Do they not have National Geographic anymore? I mean there are whole cultures who never wear bras and as a rule they're not "perky"