92% of the reason why it sucks to be brazilian
Yes, you're looking at ~92% tax right there. Final price jumped from ~113 dollars (584BRL) to ~220 dollars.
EDIT: A bit of clarification, when buying from abroad there's a flat 60% federal tax if the thing + shipping price surpasses 50 dollars. Then there's a state tax that can vary between 17-25%, which goes on top of the total taxed value. Part of the tax is literally "tax of a tax"
Hey, free shipping.
grátis.
De graça
Pakistan coming in with 50% phone tax +
18%25% luxury item sales tax + 50% customs duty + 7% service fee + cash money you need to bribe customs to release your package + shipping & handlingAnd I thought I had it bad in Germany (knew about brazilian already) with shipping + 19% import tax + 6€ import handling by DHL.
Fortunately no 6€ handling fee for sellers using IOSS, like AliExpress.
That's import VAT, that is, if you import something they want to make sure that you're paying the same 19% VAT as if someone else had imported it and then sold to you. Doesn't apply to stuff under 22 Euro as the paperwork would cost them more than you owe.
There's also import tariffs though most stuff, and in particular most electronics, don't have any tariff applied, these are EU single market tariffs and not German in particular. The currently largest one seems to be e-bikes from specifically China, a total of 80% as an anti-dumping measure. Under usual circumstances tariffs tend to be under 20%, shoes with uppers from stuff other than leather about 17%, 10% on cars, 4% on leather clothing, lots of such stuff.
AliExpress really has that stuff figured out, they're not fighting it any more, tons of issues in the past with Chinese sellers mis-labelling stuff to "save me money" which only meant that they got shitbinned by the Zoll and every single one of their parcels intercepted and inspected. They now have warehouses in the EU and do all the import handling when stocking them which means that the customer doesn't have to interact with customs at all and orders arrive in a day or three.
In these areas where bribes are so commonplace for all manner of interactions I just can't help but wonder how it goes on so long without anyone being desperate enough and wild enough to just pull a gun or a knife and basically say, "My bribe payment to you is just do your damn job and I let you live."
Or I guess maybe that does happen and then those people get disappeared.
In India, usually they don't demand a bribe. They will process your file slowly, with the understanding that you can speed it up by bribing them.
From what I understand, Pakistan does not properly regulate weapons. But it would still be rather stupid to threaten a public servant. If you are that sort of person, smiling at the official and remarking on his good health might be a better idea. A less aggressive trick is to let them think that you are from the press / have a camera or microphone / have marked currency.
Have you heard that concept from sociology that the state, through its officials and representatives, holds exclusive rights to legitimately use violence?
I guess this is supposed to stop you guys from buying stuff in USD, right?
From buying stuff from abroad in general. If it's imported, it can be taxed. Before Haddad (current economy minister), it was a gamble whether you'd be taxed or not, most of the time you weren't. Now, "to combat contraband", Aliexpress gave the thumbs up to this fucking stupid idea.
Oh yeah great idea. To combat black market activity, let’s make the open market extremely expensive to use.
I think the real irony is that, up to 1993, it's safe to say 99% of all computers we had here were contraband, because the taxes back then were even more absurd. Never mind the hyperinflation of the time.
You say that, but there's effectively no black market for imports like PC parts.
Well that’s certainly not a result of these taxes
Worked at a trade expo years ago. Talked to Brazilians. Another issue they ran into is corruption.
They were doing their best to temporarily export stuff to Europe, but there were endless delays in Brazil, and sudden and unforseen 'extra fees' that needed to be paid to get stuff out of the country.
Guy wasn't even angry anymore. Just sad. His fellow countrymen were undermining a Brazilian business out of sheer greed.
Incredibly short sighted too.
Don't blindly believe everything people tell you. Quite often, the reason why these "entrepreneurs" have to pay bribes is because they didn't go through official channels and/or don't have the necessary permits to operate.
That’s business. Cash now. The rest is fuck you, cash now.
That's not business, that's corruption. They're not generating any added value like business does, they're parasiting on it.
That's just capitalism, then
It is not, as government agencies are not for profit profit organisations de iure. On top of that it's violating law, and debfacto stealing from both the citizen and potentially from the state itself. You can't just throw 'capitalism bad' on any observation of shitty socio-economic behaviour.
This whole thread is best of Lemmy material but especially your comment!
I.E. you're saying you're okay with tax fraud, is that right?
Brazil’s government heavily pushes for things to be made there. A place I worked several years ago had an office there for some final assembly or something for products sold there.
Thats a lie. This policy was negotiated mostly with the burgeouis resellers.
We have NO concrete plan to actually industrialize.
Dude, Argentina recently updated this from 100% tax to 155%. We literally pay more to the government than the full price. And this is for every purchase, no matter the amount. Be thankful that your shitty politicians are less shitty than ours, you could be worse.
"Be happy about your horrible situation because there are more horrible situations out there" is such a shitty take.
Basically you're saying "unless you're the single most unfortunate person on the planet, maybe even throughout all of human history, you should be happy", which is obviously nonsense.
Fallacy of relative privation (informal fallacy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Be thankful and be happy are different things. "Wow, I'm thankful I'm not that fucked up like the guy over there. I should take steps to totally get away from the path that leads to that place."
It's like looking your future self in a mirror, you still can do something to get away from that bad omen.
Well said, he literally misquoted you to get upset about nothing. Hope things get better for you guys over there.
...I'm sure that dude that just got in charge will sort it out soon shudders
lol, I genuinely don't know if this is advanced sarcasm, good one
You mean the libertarian one? The anarcho-capitalist?
That is insane
Have those tariffs been successful at building a domestic source for these kinds of things?
Not even close.
When the impostos is sus
Denmark. I bought something from the US. About 300 DKK. I had to pay for shipping. About 300 DKK. I had to pay the toll. I had to pay a mandatory 120 DKK fee for the postal service to charge the toll. I had to pay taxes on the fee. I had to pay taxes on the purchase. I had to pay taxes on the shipping.
In the end I paid about 1000 DKK for a 300 DKK package.
Here in the US, I bought a used school bus to convert into a skoolie and I paid $3600 for it. To register it as a motorhome I had to pay a 6% tax, so $216 dollars, and that was it. I know of a few people in Europe who bought similarly-priced US buses and had them shipped over. For buses that cost around $4000, they had to pay that amount again for shipping and then double that amount for the various taxes and import fees, so a $4K bus cost them $15K to $20K.
Danish citizens and most Europeans get a lot for their tax money and fees. Not least peace of mind and a well-functioning society that actually makes it possible to live and not just survive.
I know it's easy to complain, but as someone who lives in the US, I'd be thrilled to live in such a society. I don't have any more money left over for myself even with the slightly lower taxes. I just have to pay out of pocket for everything.
I would have guessed burning alive in Rio was the reason it would suck to be Brazilian
Rio is nowhere as bad as half the rest of the territory in matters of extreme heat. Mato Grosso, Amazonia and Pará are frequently way worse, and also where the majority of illegal forest fires for land clearing happen.
Is that some sort of import tax or an absolutely insane sales tax?
Federal import tax, plus state tax based on the total value with the federal tax
Both taxes are also applied on product price+shipping. So it would be a state 17~18% tax on top of a 60% federal tax on product+shipping+ 15 BRL delivery fee.
And they don't even get to speak Brazilian. They have to speak Portuguese.
And I would not want to deal with the waxing, either.
I was part of a Reddit gift exchange ages ago, before they separated domestic from international. I had to ship a $30 coffee mug to Brazil and it cost $220. Oof.
Tell them to mark it as a gift, works around here 🤷.
Doesn't work in Brazil. Gifts cannot be sent from a business to a person, and even then there's a 50 USD limit.
You tell him to send it as a person 🤷.
What I've found out over the years is that Chinese will agree to almost anything to make a sale 😂.
And you can always claim engineering samples if it's a gift from a company 😉.
i'm afraid they make no such exceptions here.
and its being taxed directly at the platform, so no chance of asking them to claim a lower price like we used to do before. we have to find another way.
Tell them to write it off as engineering samples 🤷. That's the only thing that comes to mind...
Maybe if you write what tax deductions you have on import, I might have better ideas 😉.
My Pine64 order wasn't marked as a gift, and it turned up at my door completely untaxed 😳
Hows the pinephone working for you?
Ohhh it wasn't a Pinephone I ordered, it was a Pinecil v2 and a bunch of accessories and stuff for it. Sorry I should have been clearer lol.
The pinecil is absolutely amazing so far, however the included stock tip is pretty rubbish, doesn't distribute heat too well. The optional extra ones are much better. The whole thing is deceptively small, I thought it was going to be much larger!
Nah you are good, it was me that assumed. I'm glad to hear it is amazing! I've been wanted to get a pinecil too. Good to know the optional tips are worth it!
Have you tried this trick before?
Customs officers hate him because of this one weird trick!
They do, they really do 😂. There is this one gal, Melanie, she calls me personally to ask me "how long do you plan on doing this 😒... eventually you're gonna get caught 😒" 🤣🤣🤣. I just say "I have no idea what you're talking about, I just have a lot of relatives in wherever" 🤣🤣🤣.
Yep, works on the Balkans 👍.
They can't charge you for anything, since they'd have to check if it's really a gift or not, and they'd rather sit on their asses than do that 😂.
This used to work in Europe for a very long time, only recently they clamped down on it and asked to declare the value on gifts too
laughs in Argentina
It can always be worse
That is insane, it's literally a robbery
Graças a Deus comprei meu RPi 4b na pandemia. Paguei só os 600 com case, cartão de memória 64gb, fonte e cabo HDMI.
On the other hand, in the USA I bought a MikroTik CRS312 12-port 10Gbps network switch from a Latvian online store (Getic) for ~$500 plus $20 shipping, and didn't have to pay any import duties/taxes because it's under the $800/day duty-free limit. Way cheaper than buying it in the USA, where the same item is commonly $600 + taxes.
Australia is similar and has a $1000 duty-free limit, however online stores that have a lot of Australian customers do need to charge Australia sales tax (GST) of 10%. It can still end up cheaper, so there's still a lot of grey imports in Australia (which is where you buy products that are available in Australia from an online store in a different country because it's cheaper).
Por algum motivo o Brazil tem impostos disparatados sobre componentes electrónicos… não me parece que isso esteja propriamente a desenvolver a indústria local
O governo atual diz ter planos para começar a fabricar chips de processadores aqui. Entre isso e de fato começar a produção, podemos esperar pelo menos 6 anos (realisticamente, mais de 10).
Vale notar, esse imposto da tela é simplesmente por importação como pessoa física. 60% de imposto federal sobre o valor do produto e frete, depois tem outro imposto de cerca de 20% sobre o valor taxado anterior. Então a conta é
(100 + 60%) + 20% = 190PS: marcar o idioma do post como "português" simplesmente trava e não vai. Deve ter algum bug no lemmy quanto a isso
Isso já tinha supostamente o governo quando começou o imposto ha ja algum tempo atrás, que supostamente ja tem uns anos
Fuck Haddad, this fucking neolib. He has NO place in a supposedly """leftist""" government.
I'm curious -- strong protectionism is usually associated with far-left pro-labor government. Free market economics and low tariffs (here in North America, policies like NAFTA for example) are more associated with centrist neoliberalism.
What makes you suggest that high import taxes are a neoliberal policy?
Haddad is continuing the very same policy of the two previous far-right governments. This is not protectionism, its a very aggressive "debt ceiling" designed to divest from public services in favor of private ones. Meaning he also has to tax the shit out of poor people to make it happen. He also struck a deal with the borgeois resellers to make their shitty chinese imports more attractive.
Hes also facilitating private businesses to take over prisions, healthcare, etc, just like in the US.
Lula's goverment is NOT far-left by FAR despite his or bolsonarists clams. He's problably more akin to Biden than any far left govmt nowadays.
Idk why you are down voted. He made deals with famous websites/sellers, PPPs. And Lula's government never was far left. Lula always tried to satisfy both parties. He does politics very well in that sense, better than any other president. That's where's Haddad's enters with recent programs. Who benefited the most from the car discount? Cars up to 120k. The max property value of housing program went from 200k to 400k. Why the government is giving subsidy to people in the middle/upper class?
Taxation is robbery. I live in Argentina (+100% in taxes) and I have this problem too.
I wouldn't go so far as to say taxation is robbery because it goes straight into libertarian bullshit, lunatics that cry at taxation but orgasm at rent and profiting off others' work.
Still, some govts sure make it feel like that. My condolences on you having to deal with Milei now.
Cara, ni entra no perfil dele. Fica defendendo a Milei cada comentário. Uma pena que os argentinos não tem um termo como bolsominion pra os boludos seguidores dele.
translated
Mileiites? Mileiadores?
Mileiístas (in spanish).
Yes, I voted him, but to defend myself from the state. I don't think that, in the long-term, he's going to save our current crisis. In fact, I advocate for the complete abolishment of the state through agorism.
The former is only possible through institutional compulsion and coercion. The latter is through a voluntary contract that expresses the cooperation of both parties to work for each other, as they have a property interest in specific performance of the other.
Denying this process of voluntary exchange is, implicitly, denying the free will of the tenant and worker.
Blah blah blah... you kind of force people to enter into rent because they can't afford houses and you control the rent however you want.
The landlords are providing a service to those who can't afford houses, and the tenants, through economic calculation, determine that it's better to pay for a department rather that saving for a house.
In fact, deficit spending, printing fiat money and manipulating interest rates harm savings and relative prices.
"If there seems to be a shortage of supply to meet an evident demand, then look to government as the cause of the problem."
The landlords are the reason people can't afford houses. Housing should not be a market. Otherwise people make housing into commodity and thus oppose new developments. This kind of Nimbyism is why we can actually afford to house people but can't.
Government is not some vague boogeyman that does work in vacuum. Lobbying has ruined any semblance of regulation. Landowners have a conflict of interest in the goal of housing everyone.
You cannot enforce any contracts without some sort of coercitive force. If the person renting a home stops paying, the landlord will use force to evict the person. The only difference compared to the govt is size. You didn't pay taxes? Here, lemme force you to stay in prison for a while, also here's a fine on top of that.
Not all contracts are voluntary and, more importantly, the workers are almost always the weaker party when it comes to negotiation. There's a reason unions (whether they actually do their job is a different matter, let's avoid that for now) and work regulations exist in civilized places, because otherwise, people will end up as slaves or almost slaves. If you leave it to the market to "self-regulate", you'll just get feudalism 2.0, where companies become the new noble houses, lording over their wageslaves (serfs and peasants), who should be grateful they're allowed to work. Not to mention the constant bullshit of "if you work hard enough, you too can become a noble!"
Really, any sufficiently big company will act just like a govt, full of unnecessary bureaucracy
In this case, the force applied by the landlord is legimitate because the tenant is not performing their contractual obligations over the property of the landlord.
There is no contract between the government and citizen that legitimize the violence of the state. Any theory of a "social contract" will be unilateral by nature. Actually, the state itself is a threat to the Non-Agression Principle.
The asymmetries of power between both parties does not mean the contract is not voluntary. In fact, any government intervention in the labor market will make this situation worse, as these encourage poverty and harm those workers who are the less productive in the market.
As long as private property is not violated by institutional coercion; as long as the system of prices is not manipulated by any government policy; as long as human action and his natural rights are respected: social cooperation through the division of labor will flourish, as voluntary exchange is the source of economic progress.
Indeed, civilization itself is inconceivable in the absence of private property. Any encroachment on property results in loss of freedom and prosperity, as property is the only way to resolve conflicts by the existence of scarce resources.
The market is a process, not an "equilibrium model". It is not designed, but emerged from human action.
The difference is that having market concentration does not mean being a monopoly. In fact, a monopoly is a government-grant privilege, for gaining legal rights to be a preferred producer is the only way to maintain a monopoly in a market setting.
The state can not have direct consumer feedback; it can not act economically. Instead, it collects taxes and spends them arbitrarily following interest groups.
"In a market economy, the range of quality, quantity, and type of goods and services correspond to social needs. These goods are services that are valued by consumers, and hence, they will be provided if it is economically feasible to do so relative to other social priorities."
Asymmetries can get to a point that some contracts might as well be involuntary. Not to mention that those that have the power can and will abuse it. To think that a person whose choices are "begging on the streets" or "dealing with all sorts of abuse to ensure food safety and shelter" has any real choice is wishful thinking.
Wrong. Badly written and badly implemented laws can encourage that. Any decent law that forces companies to abide by safety and health standards are protecting workers from injury and possibly the customers from disease. Women getting harassed by horny bosses shouldn't be left to their own devices. Read that part about power asymmetry above. People with power will abuse their power. Laws should exist to ensure that they don't.
Wrong. You can have monopolies without any state. There are natural monopolies, like water and sewage, or roads and railways, these latter two to a lesser extent. In a lot of places, there are de facto monopolies of services like electricity or internet connection, the latter even being parodied in a South Park episode. Also, without a state, it is easy for a big enough company to collude with others to ensure local monopolies (oligopoly), or for it to harass or simply buy out any competition. The state is the only thing that can force a monopoly or oligopoly to end.
As much as you complain about government violence and coercion, that's the only thing allowing for any "healthy" capitalistic state to work. If you remove the state, then there's nothing forcing anyone to follow any sort of law. Therefore, stealing is not a crime. Impersonation is not a crime. Bribes will become "personal tax". As soon as a company has to pay a private security force to violently enforce what it wants, like the safety of its own resources, it acts no different from a state. Not to mention that there's the real risk of any company that sells "protection through violence" to decide that they deserve more, bullying everyone for money because, hey, fuck you, I have the guns, whatcha gonna do? Call the police?
Keep in mind that price manipulation is not exclusive to govt's. DeBeers controls the supply of mined diamonds, they set the price. A monopoly.
Anarchism can only realistically work when there's only one person. As soon as there's more than one, some sort of social structure is created. Capitalism depends on a state existing to ensure some sort of obedience to law and, if it doesn't exist, companies will step in, one way or the other, always looking to ensure they maintain their own power, obviously. Which, again, is no different from a feudalistic state.
Wishful thinking. In a market economy, it's all about profit. If one can profit off cheap, plentiful stuff, they will. If there's more profit to be made ignoring lower density areas, then they can go fuck themselves for not being profitable. "Dangerous" areas can also go fuck themselves for being too poor/dangerous to be profitable.
Rightwingers don't deserve oxygen, and I'll gladly see to it should the chance arise.
Do you believe no one can live outside the authority of the government?
Do you believe in theft and redistribution of wealth to fund their programs?
Do you believe a small oligarchy of politicians can best regulate the economy?
Do you believe a monopoly of fiat currency must be maintained?
Do you believe in using violence and force against those who disagree with you?
If yes, I think you should reconsider your position about who "deserve oxygen" and who does not.
Are you illiterate?
And I though 10% was bad
You must thank to the new president and his policy of spend money as were no tomorrow and create ministries and secretaries for other parties in order to approve laws. Ah ask to DiCaprio and Greta if this is good for them, bacause they supported this candidate, and the environment got no improvement so far
Bolsonarista bom é bolsonarista mºrto.
Onde eu mencionei o nome do bozo? Olha aí quem prega a morte dos outros, aí acusam o Bozo de genocida, belo exemplo de amor seu militonto
Otário feito você não tem voz.
E vc tem, faz o L baby