The murderous creature you live with is a murderous creature, study confirms
stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to 
npr.org
More scientific evidence has surfaced to show that while mittens may be your sweet angel, letting her roam outside is also a big threat to biodiversity.
Keep your cat indoors and/or supervise them outdoors. Don't be a shitty pet owner.
The coyotes in my neighborhood disagree. Let
dinnerkitty roam!Its fine. Good pet owners will never have their cats inside for too long.
Catios are a win-win situation for housecats and wildlife.
We need to get outdoor cats off the streets. They're Argentine ants with a cute face, which makes them all the more sinister.
Agreed. Maybe we could convert unused office space into giant stray cat condos.
OTOH, I have a cat who can't effectively jump onto the bed by himself. Your mileage may vary. :)
I have had cats who live with murderous intent, but then I also have this football.
You're probably solely responsible for the extinction of an entire species by letting that murder machine outside.
If only, he could use the exercise, but he's terrified of outside.
Some days after our old cat passed away we noticed birds singing in our garden.
Cats are apex predators even at an old age.
House cats are highly effective hunters. They are by no means apex predators.
House cats are NOT apex predators. Apex means they're at the top and nothing preys on them. Cats are preyed on by cougars, wolves, coyotes, foxes, eagles, etc.
Idk. I think it could be argued that they are the apex preditors of the garden
Three letters that keep my cat on a leash outdoors.
F.eline
I.mmunodeficiency
V.irus
Its cat aids, its real, and if caught your mittens is not going to have a good time.
While I definitely lean towards not letting cats roam free (not even possible in our current living situation), I'd say that FeLV and FIP scare me way more than FIV. FIV+ cats can live relatively normal, long lives when living in safe, caring homes with some very basic precautions
FIV is primarily transmitted via saliva in deep bite wounds when one cat bites another, and the majority of those bites occur when an intact male cat bites another intact male cat, so if your cats are spayed/neutered, the risk of contracting FIV drops significantly. With proper slow introductions between altered cats, FIV+ and FIV- cats can live together with minimal risk of transmission.
I only mention this because there's so many FIV+ cats that get stuck in the shelters due to stigma, and wish I could save them all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feline\_immunodeficiency\_virus
Can confirm.
What a trashy headline.
Found Mittens' owner.
This story always gets spicy comments. Every. Single. Time.
Yeah, folks gets tetchy about being told they need to keep their cute little murder fluff inside for both its sake and the local wildlife.
And being told we’re poor owners and don’t deserve to have a pet. You should really knock that shit off.
If you would just be a responsible owner you wouldn't hear it.
According to my vets, I am a fantastic owner, doing the best for my pet. So, again, you and everyone else who doesn’t like it can get over it.
I don't give a shit about your cat, you could have the healthiest, happiest, best-cared-for, or the sickliest, most miserable, abused and neglected cat in history, that's between you and your cat and effects no one else.
I care about the environment, which is and should be everyone's shared concern and responsibility to care for. Allowing your cat to run free outside is no different than throwing your fast food trash outside. It affects everyone, and while one or even a few people doing it might not make a significant difference by themselves, it's a death by a thousand cuts, and you're one of the people holding a knife
Not every cat is the same. I currently own two murder machines. Any pest in the house is a dead pest. If one doesn't get it, the other one will.
Our third cat can't catch his own breath. He wheezes just rolling over.
While all three are indoor only, I have allowed others to go outside and they proved to be completely ineffectual hunters.
One really wanted to catch crows. I mean really, it was like she could taste it. She would also start stalking them from 50 feet away and the crows would just look at her like "Are you serious right now?" She never did get remotely close to catching anything. Probably for the best, the crows would have kicked her ass.
Her littermate was convinced dead leaves on the ground were helpless animals. I think fluttering in the wind and the tail like stems. He'd do the chatter talk at them and then bring them in the house and deposit them in the living room. "I killed it!" Yes, good boy.
Cool, didn’t read it, bye.
If you didn't care about what we're saying as much as you're pretending not to, you wouldn't bother replying at all. I think you know you're in the wrong but you're too stubborn to admit it or change anything about yourself.
That’s a common fallacy.
Let's see what the vet says when fluffy gets pancaked by a car or torn to shreds by a coyote. You'd be responsible for that.
oooh, fear-mongering, no one has tried that before.
There are no coyotes on Maui, moron, or any other animals that would attack him except dogs, and all those he would encounter are cat friendly, and I am far from the road so that’s no issue.
Try again, asshole.
edit: seriously, dawg, this island has cat colonies everywhere because they have no predators here. There are volunteers just to feed all the feral cats.
Enjoy your down votes, dipshit
They’re disabled on my instance, downvote away.
And my cat is still going outside. Cry more.
And there are 5 other outdoor cats on this property that don’t belong to me. Cry harder.
I'll just leave this here
https://www.mauiforestbirds.org/invasive-small-mammals-on-maui-cats/
Sure, and until all the cat colonies are gone, bitching about my one cat means nothing. Meanwhile, the main threat to native birds remains to be the mosquitos. Threatened birds haven't been caught and sent to be raised in captivity because of cats, it's because of the virus laden mosquitos. Plenty of articles about that if you bother to look. My cat is still going outside. Get the fuck over it.
edit: also, I already commented on this reality regarding my own cat here
https://reddthat.com/comment/5606452
I just love how people who don't live here think they're going to educate us on something.
You're going to pull the "other people do it so I can too" fallacy? Cat colonies existing doesn't justify making the problem worse. That's an error in thinking, and ties in with how emotionally involved you are in this. I know you said elsewhere you don't care, but someone who leaves 20+ comments in a thread clearly does. I know you get that little kick of adrenaline each time you reply thinking that you're a freedom fighter or something but you're really not furthering a cause here.
No, that’s not what I said. Continue with getting over it.
https://reddthat.com/comment/5605401
edit: also, the only reason why there’s 20+ replies is because you douchebags keep pushing your agenda, and I keep telling you no.
edit2: truncated link
No, you're wrong
If you can’t get over it, that’s not my problem. And again, my vet’s opinion is more important than yours is.
i don't remember you at all
Go back to sleep.
Go try to restart fights elsewhere, because I’m not biting. Goodbye.
I didn’t start a fight. I provided feedback about how my cat’s health exists outside your rules with my vet’s approval, and you insisted on being the way you are about it. You can still get over it.
Holy shit, these people are fanatically stupid.
How dare you imply they are over generalizing and exaggerating consequences! To hell with those people downvoting you.
I definitely monitor my cat when he is outside, but that's because he thinks he is safe and I know he's going to make a feast for some coyote if I don't.
I wish he could catch that fat ass squirrel that won't leave my garden alone, but he's about as graceful on his feet as a newborn horse.
That being said, people need to spay and neuter their pets. I live in Houston, and it is a plague here, because people are lazy/stupid.
Anyway, over development has done more to destroy wildlife than any fucking cat, but these people want to blame cat owners.
Must be nice to have so much free time to waste on bullshit.
Thank you, exactly! Appreciate the note, that was fun to read!
Hey, really quick.
Check out the by-far number one killer of birds per year.
Right, and it is because people don't monitor their pet cats, and not because of the rampant cat colonies, due to people not spaying/neutering their pets.
You people are bitching up the wrong tree.
I can't believe y'all are so desperate to feel elitist over someone that this is what you settle on.
I’m pointing out that you’re wrong saying development causes more bird deaths than cats. That’s it.
And if you think I’m not for spaying/neutering, oh boy, are you wrong.
And folks like you sure do get defensive at anyone pointing out it’s dangerous - for them and local wildlife - to let cats outside UNSUPERVISED.
You mean when I said wildlife?
A lot more wildlife than birds.
I don't really care what your feelings are, my comments aren't about you.
My comments are about morons blaming cat owners, that let their cats outside.
It is seriously stupid, like voting for Trump stupid.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cats-kill-a-staggering-number-of-species-across-the-world/
https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-cat-lockdown-that-divided-a-german-town
https://news.yahoo.com/10-species-driven-toward-extinction-165000983.html
Cats are adorable but they are also dangerous for a lot of wildlife and should be kept indoors. And I’m not saying any more in this topic.
That's because it's clickbaity bullshit posted to drive engagement. It's not a bug, it's a feature 😉
Clickbait - yes Bullshit - no
I adopted a stray recently. She has expressed zero interest in Outside ever since. She just wants love and cuddles. One less on the streets.
People get absurdly angry when I bring out this fact, street cats are pests, and pest must be controlled.
But of course. Australia alone proves this.
Thank goodness moles, rabbits and squirrels aren't endangered, or my dog would never be allowed outside again.
Predators do what predators do.
I had two cats from the same litter. The female was superfocused on birds, rarely paid any attention to mice or voles which are pretty abundant here in the countryside. She very rarely managed to catch any birds in the wild, but if one made the mistake of flying into the house, it was game over in seconds. She could jump surprisingly high.
The male on the other hand was only interested in rodents. It was like to him birds didn't exist. For yeard he kept our house totally free from mice, roaming the yard and doing his thing very effectively. I'd pay good money to have a cat like him again.
I wouldn't let my cats out in the city, but out here I'll let them live by their insticts. The nearby highway kills a lot more birds and mammals daily than they ever could.
Collisions with cars kill approximately 214,500,000 birds per year in the US.
Cats kill 2,400,000,000.
Source.
They very obviously weren't talking in total across the US. Just their property and their nearby highway. I find what they said to be quite believable even with the total amount of birds cats kill across the US
Anecdotes are not data, however. They might think cars kill more, but data shows that nationwide, the opposite is true by an order of magnitude.
You see birds killed by cars on the road because the dead birds stay where they’re hit. You don’t see the ones killed by cats because cats don’t usually leave them there.
Fuck birds I want my cat to kill them
Nature does its thing. News at 11.
edit: downvotes are disabled for my instance. Knock yourselves out with that if if makes you feel better. It makes no difference at all.
Only, cats aren’t natural to many environments. When they’ve gotten introduced to new places, they did a lot of ecological harm, and continue to do so. That’s why cats need to be kept inside.
And my little senior citizen buddy will continue having good mental health to his final days by still being allowed outdoors.
Mental health for felines does not necessitate killing other animals. Mine gets sufficient stimulation by just observing and being played with.
Cool story.
Until the end of last year, mine was indoor-only, and had multiple health problems requiring ongoing expenses and treatment, then a change in my living situation necessitated him being outdoors for part of the time. Ever since then, he has gone into almost complete remission, supplies that would last for weeks now last for months, and his vets agree that the only thing that has changed is he is now getting something from the outdoor experience that medicine couldn’t provide. IE, mental health.
He was played with and given attention constantly, and it didn’t matter, we thought he had only a few months left. Now he could have years left.
So he will continue to be outdoors, despite opinions from random people on the internet.
I imagine you’re saying:
This allows for responses to more accurately target your calculation. Hopefully it would feel less personal, though who knows.
But if you dispute #Cat/BirdFacts, then I’m mistaken!
No, I meant it as presented.
My vets and I have all observed that his health has dramatically improved by being outdoors, and therefore the observations, approval and advice of the persons actually involved with my cat are what will be trusted, and the opinions and disapproval of all the angry randos who have had no participation in keeping him alive will have zero weight or importance, because wtf do they really know about it?
And if my elderly cat, who cannot climb trees because his claws are kept trimmed for being indoors, manages to somehow catch a bird, then good on him and he deserves it, and that bird should have used the power of flight, which my cat does not possess. But it hasn’t happened yet, and probably won’t.
That’s what I meant. How any adult here decides to handle this reality is up to them.
Readers only know what you tell ‘em. Your “my kitty” is “generic feline” to others until more context is provided.
It does sound like you would keep generic feline inside, given the veterinarian consensus is reducing the number of free-ranging cats is good for cats and birds. And you go by the vet. Sensible, many would agree.
RE: “survival of the fittest” (e.g. organisms best adjusted to their environment win out, being most successful in surviving and reproducing) - want to be careful not to misapply that thinking to justify human-influenced scenarios.
The scale and impact of cats hunting in environments where they are not native is more an example of humans disrupting local ecosystems than natural selection. Arguing animals are responsible for their own survival against domesticated predators is ethically contentious. But when everything’s natural I’m with ya on the merit-based view of predation.
The randos might be less angry if you were immediately up front about extenuating circumstances. Not all of them! But doubtless some will attack an inaccurate idea of you simply having a personal preference, whereafter you’ll feel attacked for “keeping [your cat] alive.” And that’s no good! Waste of time and needless raising of blood pressure :)
I’m not reading all that. I truly don’t care.
You’re being good to your cat
Re-introspect bird vs. domesticated predator
You’re catching flak in part for the way you comment
I feel like this 3rd comment
https://reddthat.com/comment/5600053
provided all the pertinent information for anyone to understand that something medically different is going on here, and that maybe mental health for a cat isn’t so easy as just playing with them and giving them attention.
Meanwhile, prior to that I’m already being told that I’m an irresponsible pet owner who doesn’t deserve a pet, so anyone who has a problem with my tone after that is welcome to fly here and take a number to suck my ass.
Thank you for appearing to not be one of those people, and providing a more concise thing for me to respond to, it’s appreciated.
Well, your living situation changed too…
When we would take our cat to the vet for various ongoing ailments they’d always ask if anything changed at home. Seems like that might play a factor.
Yes, and him being outdoors when he wants is part of that change. There were no issues with the previous residence. If anything there are problems with the new residence. The vets and I went through everything for years and nothing came up that could be addressed. We have this under control, the decision is made. The cat is still going to be outside when he wants, and after all this I will now encourage him to try to catch the fucking birds destroying fruit on the orchard trees.
Your feelings got hurt by strangers on the internet so you want to actively try to be the bad cat owner you claim you’re being painted as?
👍 you do you I guess.
Sure, if I’m considered a bad owner despite all my efforts to take care of him well, may as well lean into it. And these birds actually are destroying the crops, so if he doesn’t eat them, we’ll probably start shooting them. And as mentioned in a different reply, none of them here are native, they’re all invasives. So be happy about it. Or don’t. Whatever.
And, again, as mentioned elsewhere, the likelihood this old cat will actually catch any bird is severely low.
I don’t really care one way or another about your cat. You seem very petulant and kind of antagonistic, especially looking through your comment history.
I bet you’re a real treat to be around if this is how you interact with people in person. Thankfully the digital world has a block feature.
Bye bye!
You don’t seem to have actually read anything. I have taken such good care of this cat that my vets are amazed he’s lived this long, much less suddenly doing so much better than he was before. Your opinion is trash.
Feel free to block me, you didn’t have to offer your opinion to begin with. One less asshole replying to me like they know everything.
If your cat is supervised and leashed, sure.
If not, it needs to be kept indoors for the sake of local wildlife.
If you can’t provide your cat with proper indoor stimulation, quite honestly, you shouldn’t have one. It’s a part of responsible pet ownership.
Read my reply to the other person, and get over it.
And reread the first part of what I said:
Oh, and as for “years left”?
The average lifespan for an indoor cat is 12-15 years.
It’s 3-5 for an outdoor cat.
That’s the OTHER reason for cats needing to be kept indoors OR supervised and leashed/harnessed if allowed out.
Source? My family has had at least 4 cats that have gone outside and lived longer than a decade at least.
https://www.ovrs.com/blog/lifespan-of-a-cat/
Are they talking about cats that only go outside during the day, or cats that always stay outside, and does that make a difference? Because, as I’ve said, apparently we’ve raised at least 4 outliers.
It makes a difference. Purely outdoor cats die sooner because of food, parasites, and illness, along with predators, cars, and accidental poisoning. Mostly indoor cats that are let out are fed at home and go to the vet. But they’re still at risk from cars, poisoning (ie, say a neighbor planted some lovely lilies and your cat goes to sniff them - lilies are deadly toxic to cats and just biting a leaf can kill them), and larger predators if they aren’t supervised.
My cat is already 19, and now he’s doing better than he was last year. That’s how well I take care of him.
I already read the first part, I don’t care.
Back to getting over it with you.
So you don’t supervise your cat while he’s out, is what I’m getting. Ok.
Then I sincerely hope your elderly cat, who REACHED his age by being kept indoors, doesn’t end up hit by a car, accidentally eating poison or something poisonous, or depending on where you live, eaten by a coyote or gator. As happens to many cats allowed outdoors unsupervised.
If you let a cat out, be responsible by supervising and leashing/harnessing it or have a special enclosed cat run in your yard.
I didn’t bother reading any of that, because my vets feel like I’ve made the right decisions for his welfare and commend me every time I’m there for doing such a great job and being such a good parent.
So get used to disappointment here, because I don’t give a fuck. And you can stick your judgmental comments regarding poor ownership and not deserving to have a pet back up your ass where they came from.
So I’m not reading anything you wrote past that line. Have a lovely day.
Doesn’t matter. Try not being so judgmental next time.
Roll coal!
You know how pooping is natural, but we get sick if we poop where we eat?
Cats’ instinctual predatory behavior = natural.
Invasive predators = serious and unnatural threat to ecosystems.
—
…so I won’t hear that line if I catch you taking a dump in my kitchen right 😄
I’m not ready to commit one way or another at this time.
At least I’ll end my session here feeling like I got a good word in for the birds, even if I have to watch where I step 💩😉
Sure, take that win, though I’m still 95% certain that my cat will never catch one with his limitations. And if he does, the only birds in this area are non-native transplants, and therefore invasives, so he’d be doing a service.
Where’s the GoFundMe to buy you some more cats!
Oh shit no, we have so many cat colonies with booming feral populations as it is all over the place. Which is part of the absurdity. My cat will likely kill nothing while going outside to lay in the sun and go pee, while there’s hundreds of outdoor ferals fed daily by volunteers, because the community has decided to be humane and not mass euthanize, only mass spay and neutering when they can be rounded up. The main threat to our native birds are mosquitoes (edit:), which is mostly in the deep uninhabited valleys where people and cats don’t go anyway.