Yeah that’s because they can’t sell your location data to the police.
Why not?
Because they have to comply with lawful subpoenas for free.
But they could still sell it for money if they wanted to, that was my point.
If it's on sale the nsa probably bought it already to be honest
even if it wasn't, NSA would've probably bought it already anyway
I could see them blocking it too maintain an exclusivity deal
Stole. The NSA steals data from companies like Google. That's why, for example, everything in data centers and everything sent between them is encrypted.
And also because Google doesn't sell data.
Hahaha. That’s a joke right?
Do they sell data or sell services using data they collect? Honest question.
I believe generally not. They sell the results of processed data, but the data is their golden goose. Why sell it wholesale, when you can charge for every use of it?
That's what I thought. So they do in a sense sell our data but not directly.
I think they profile individuals and sell those profiles to ad companies, or in the case of google (ad company AND source of data) they pair ads to devices that fit a profile for the ad, like "rides a bike", "risk averse", "owns several cats" would be a profile for an ad selling cat bike seats that can hold 4 cats. That's one way of using the data but there are many more, each more nefarious than the previous one, I guess culminating with Cambridge Analytica, especially their African endeavours.
Btw is your username in reference to the band can?
Btw is your username in reference to the band can?
Yes it is! You're only the second person to catch that in my 6 months here.
Google is the ad company. They don't sell their primary business advantage to competitors.
CA bought data from Facebook, not Google.
You'd be surprised how blatantly companies sell very personal data on a person. Google's not going to do it openly because of pr, but a little subsidiary might
Google probably isn't going to sell everything, but it's pretty likely there's an offshoot company who will sell individual data.
Their data is indeed their golden goose, but if they sell data for individuals at $300 or even $10 a pop, no one is going to get enough of their dataset to compete. They could even rate limit... Although if companies start to pay a billion or 10 to get full data dumps on a country, they might refocus on collection.
After all, the data isn't the true golden goose... It's the golden eggs that they process and sell. It's their ability to collect data that's most valuable
I challenge you to produce a shed of evidence that Google sells user data.
I don't have a smoking gun for you, but I've got a dozen lawsuits saying that Google is lying about their assertion that they don't sell user data
It's not proof, but it's very telling... I'm not saying that Google is directly selling user info, I'm saying that you can buy a list of credit card purchases made by any individual from Equifax for $200
Google isn't selling information directly, but it sure as hell seems like they're selling it indirectly
I haven't looked into the issue deeply, but a casual search has only reinforced my opinion
You think Equifax is buying data from Google? About credit card purchases? Google doesn't even have access to that kind of data. It's credit processors and credit bureaus that are selling you out. Credit bureaus openly do what people accuse Google of doing, yet the complaints about selling data are always directed at Google. People running credit bureaus must be laughing their asses off.
Where do I go to buy a list of your location history off Google if it's not true?
Ok I just went down a very deep internet rabbit hole and went from believing google definitely sells data to it doesn't sell data to it sells data (kinda). I'd recommend this article on RTB's which explains how google advertisements actually work and how they leak your data (including your location).
I'd also recommend watching the short video by Brave linked in the article - I didn't understand the first part but the actual article explains it quite well, the end is the juicy part.
Hope this helps!
That was quite informative! Thank you for the article.
Welcome! :)
You don't kill the golden goose.
If anything they'd be buying since they're the ones presenting ads... The whole data selling discussion online is always ridiculous. Who are these mystical data buyers ready to shell out billions for crappy "data" (does anyone participating in these discussions actually have a definition of what they think this ridiculously non specific ""data"" even is?) to present slightly better ads to users?
Why would Google sell this data, shouldn't they want to keep it to themselves?
selling your data refers to people buying ads and being like I want to show my dog food ad to 100,000 people who have a dog, and then Google only shows the ad to people who have a dog
That's not what selling is. At all. Selling implies that any random person with money has access to data about you.
I know of a SaaS company that charges for their products to end users for a monthly fee. They make significantly more money selling the data of their users to 3rd parties than they do from subscriptions. Also, they figured this out after the fact, it wasn't a core business component when they launched, but they still ended up raising the monthly fees due to "inflation".
Use Organic maps and continue contributing to openstreetmap
Have not heard of this but I'm looking into it now. Thanks!
Yeah street complete ( the app mostly used to contribute to osm) is really cool and a lot of fun
If you do crime, leave your phone at home
Yeah if you attend a protest, go to church or vote leave your phone at home.
Damn the world is getting crazy
Where is the problem with going to the church?
You've never seen The Kingsman?
Likely not. Apologies for missing the reference, but I don't have a clue
Look up "Kingsman church scene" or watch the movie. The scene is one of the best action scenes. Won't necessarily spoil the movie but will give up some info.
The government will know you went to church. That's pretty scary if you ask me. Church should be a safe place and having the government track you literally anywhere is concerning. Not to mention it opens up the door for people to be watched even more because they attended a church, mosque or something else.
I was gonna say, I. In this country I get more worried that I don't attend.
I'm pretty sure no one cares if you don't attend. (At least at the NSA)
Technically speaking, anywhere that your face/body/gait can be seen/analysed, is where you will be tracked. At this point, the most prudent thing to do is to completely divorce your online identity from your physical self.
I feel like the vast majority of headlines about this stuff could use clarification of "without warrant."
Why bother with Google when they can just ask your telco.
Telco doesn't have the same level of precision I think.
Yes and no
The Telco can say between what antennas you are. In urban areas with lots of antennas that's still pretty accurate to almost say what building. Especially with 5G the number of antennas and accuracy go upto in some cases centimeter/inch accuracy so better than GPS. That last case would be in a mall with small antenna in each corridor.
In rural areas with data switched off that's more like somewhere in that square mile, way worse than GPS.
Yeah that’s because they can’t sell your location data to the police.
Why not?
Because they have to comply with lawful subpoenas for free.
But they could still sell it for money if they wanted to, that was my point.
If it's on sale the nsa probably bought it already to be honest
even if it wasn't, NSA would've probably bought it already anyway
I could see them blocking it too maintain an exclusivity deal
Stole. The NSA steals data from companies like Google. That's why, for example, everything in data centers and everything sent between them is encrypted.
And also because Google doesn't sell data.
Hahaha. That’s a joke right?
Do they sell data or sell services using data they collect? Honest question.
I believe generally not. They sell the results of processed data, but the data is their golden goose. Why sell it wholesale, when you can charge for every use of it?
That's what I thought. So they do in a sense sell our data but not directly.
I think they profile individuals and sell those profiles to ad companies, or in the case of google (ad company AND source of data) they pair ads to devices that fit a profile for the ad, like "rides a bike", "risk averse", "owns several cats" would be a profile for an ad selling cat bike seats that can hold 4 cats. That's one way of using the data but there are many more, each more nefarious than the previous one, I guess culminating with Cambridge Analytica, especially their African endeavours.
Btw is your username in reference to the band can?
Yes it is! You're only the second person to catch that in my 6 months here.
Google is the ad company. They don't sell their primary business advantage to competitors.
CA bought data from Facebook, not Google.
You'd be surprised how blatantly companies sell very personal data on a person. Google's not going to do it openly because of pr, but a little subsidiary might
Google probably isn't going to sell everything, but it's pretty likely there's an offshoot company who will sell individual data.
Their data is indeed their golden goose, but if they sell data for individuals at $300 or even $10 a pop, no one is going to get enough of their dataset to compete. They could even rate limit... Although if companies start to pay a billion or 10 to get full data dumps on a country, they might refocus on collection.
After all, the data isn't the true golden goose... It's the golden eggs that they process and sell. It's their ability to collect data that's most valuable
I challenge you to produce a shed of evidence that Google sells user data.
I don't have a smoking gun for you, but I've got a dozen lawsuits saying that Google is lying about their assertion that they don't sell user data
It's not proof, but it's very telling... I'm not saying that Google is directly selling user info, I'm saying that you can buy a list of credit card purchases made by any individual from Equifax for $200
Google isn't selling information directly, but it sure as hell seems like they're selling it indirectly
I haven't looked into the issue deeply, but a casual search has only reinforced my opinion
You think Equifax is buying data from Google? About credit card purchases? Google doesn't even have access to that kind of data. It's credit processors and credit bureaus that are selling you out. Credit bureaus openly do what people accuse Google of doing, yet the complaints about selling data are always directed at Google. People running credit bureaus must be laughing their asses off.
Where do I go to buy a list of your location history off Google if it's not true?
Ok I just went down a very deep internet rabbit hole and went from believing google definitely sells data to it doesn't sell data to it sells data (kinda). I'd recommend this article on RTB's which explains how google advertisements actually work and how they leak your data (including your location).
I'd also recommend watching the short video by Brave linked in the article - I didn't understand the first part but the actual article explains it quite well, the end is the juicy part.
Hope this helps!
That was quite informative! Thank you for the article.
Welcome! :)
You don't kill the golden goose.
If anything they'd be buying since they're the ones presenting ads... The whole data selling discussion online is always ridiculous. Who are these mystical data buyers ready to shell out billions for crappy "data" (does anyone participating in these discussions actually have a definition of what they think this ridiculously non specific ""data"" even is?) to present slightly better ads to users? Why would Google sell this data, shouldn't they want to keep it to themselves?
selling your data refers to people buying ads and being like I want to show my dog food ad to 100,000 people who have a dog, and then Google only shows the ad to people who have a dog
That's not what selling is. At all. Selling implies that any random person with money has access to data about you.
I know of a SaaS company that charges for their products to end users for a monthly fee. They make significantly more money selling the data of their users to 3rd parties than they do from subscriptions. Also, they figured this out after the fact, it wasn't a core business component when they launched, but they still ended up raising the monthly fees due to "inflation".
Use Organic maps and continue contributing to openstreetmap
Have not heard of this but I'm looking into it now. Thanks!
Yeah street complete ( the app mostly used to contribute to osm) is really cool and a lot of fun
If you do crime, leave your phone at home
Yeah if you attend a protest, go to church or vote leave your phone at home.
Damn the world is getting crazy
Where is the problem with going to the church?
You've never seen The Kingsman?
Likely not. Apologies for missing the reference, but I don't have a clue
Look up "Kingsman church scene" or watch the movie. The scene is one of the best action scenes. Won't necessarily spoil the movie but will give up some info.
The government will know you went to church. That's pretty scary if you ask me. Church should be a safe place and having the government track you literally anywhere is concerning. Not to mention it opens up the door for people to be watched even more because they attended a church, mosque or something else.
I was gonna say, I. In this country I get more worried that I don't attend.
I'm pretty sure no one cares if you don't attend. (At least at the NSA)
Technically speaking, anywhere that your face/body/gait can be seen/analysed, is where you will be tracked. At this point, the most prudent thing to do is to completely divorce your online identity from your physical self.
For sure. It won't be just Google authorities will be asking for your location data.
I feel like the vast majority of headlines about this stuff could use clarification of "without warrant."
Why bother with Google when they can just ask your telco.
Telco doesn't have the same level of precision I think.
Yes and no
The Telco can say between what antennas you are. In urban areas with lots of antennas that's still pretty accurate to almost say what building. Especially with 5G the number of antennas and accuracy go upto in some cases centimeter/inch accuracy so better than GPS. That last case would be in a mall with small antenna in each corridor.
In rural areas with data switched off that's more like somewhere in that square mile, way worse than GPS.
They can still access it locally, if Google wanted to protect people then they wouldn’t store location data
How about the case where I explicitly want them to store my location data? I mean I really use and like that feature.
I want them to. I opted in and use that feature.
that is possible with the current google settings
it is not default. but it is possible.
Nah, that toggle is meaningless.
Evidence?
I'm using this feature and am looking forward to it becoming on-device.
Like Apple, Google also doesn't want competitors in collecting user data