The Supreme Court strikes down Biden's student-loan forgiveness plan, blocking debt relief for millions of borrowers
Girlparts@kbin.social to 
News@kbin.social – 255 points – 
businessinsider.com
The Supreme Court ruled Biden's student-loan forgiveness is illegal, meaning borrowers will resume payments without debt cancellation this year.
I hope Gen Z never forgets this.
It's a great lesson in how important elections are. Trump was able to appoint multiple supreme court justices which have shaped the future of America for years due to their most recent decisions and will continue to shape it for decades after he is gone.
yeah, i'm glad that there wasn't anything that could of been done under Obama...oh wait (yes it was a multi factor fuck up, but all the fuck ups were from people who were supposed to be "on our side" trying to claim power just a little longer and fucking miss me with the hand waving of there was nothing that could be done! there was!) Voting is important yes but can we stop pretending it's a fucking magic bullet? Cause it's not. Its one tiny itty bitty thing that needs to be done. Hell voting doesn't even work if you don't have any of the other stuff surrounding it. People need to get organized both at home and at work and get ready to take the fight to them through unions and strikes at the very least.
i'm so fucking sick of the answer to all of this is "go vote" when there is much more than just that needing to be done. Don't just vote, go get fucking organized with community, and fucking fight.
Yeah, Democrats lost a Supreme Court seat because one old lady refused to retire and they lost out on months of judicial confirmations this year because a different old lady refused to retire.
(if the Republicans take the Senate in 2024 I hope it's by a narrow enough margin that they have to worry about 90-year-old Chuck Grassley the same way we've had to worry about Feinstein)
It was a 6-3 decision, one seat wasn't going to make a difference in this decision.
Don’t forget about the other seat that the Rs blocked Obama from filling. The SC could have been a 5-4 dem majority.
That whole situation still makes me so mad. That turtle bastard refused to even hold hearings for Merrick Garland for 9 months because it was an election year, and then four years later held hearings voted on and seated Barrett after the election had started.
We should absolutely have a liberal 5-4 majority. Instead we live in a conservative 6-3 dystopia, with Republicans openly planning on denying any results they disagree with and installing whatever fucking president they want.
Surprise Rs have no principles.
Still can, we just have to avoid giving Republicans a window of Senate + WH control in which to replace Alito or Thomas. (and even if we only get one of them we get another crack at it a few years later with Roberts)
Ok, so we just have to hold out for another 30 years or so.
Thomas is 75, fat, and I assume he's not doing daily yoga, abstaining from alcohol, and following a strict vegan diet on all of these rich-guy junkets he goes on. Alito is 73 and likewise. Pure evil can get you an awfully long way - c.f. Henry Kissinger - but even so, the odds of either of them lasting much more than another decade are pretty slim.
How do you know?
For all we know that one person could have convinced another to vote in favour of debt relief. Or perhaps when it became clear the vote was standing 5-4 it would make one of those five decide it's not clear enough and switch their vote because there wasn't a strong enough majority to block the executive branch.
Or perhaps if it was blocked at 5-4 it would give more options for result to be challenged or appealed.
Lots of things might be different if politicians who say they are for the people actually act in the best interests of the people, even if that means they retire.
For all we know it could have spurred the conservatives to work even harder to screw over the country.
Basing your entire ideology on "what could have been" is a fools errand. Its time to start looking at the future, instead of lamenting the past.
Unless you find more fulfillment in bitching about how its everyone else's fault your life is shit.
I don't know why you're taking that tone with me, I didn't bitch or lament about anything nor make any statements about my "ideology".
All I did was point out "one seat wasn't going to make a difference" is faulty logic.
Let's not pretend that he conservative justices didn't already know how they were going to rule on this. They just needed to do a little parallel construction before issuing their opinion.
yes but there were two stolen seats.
Re: Feinstein, my understanding of why they've kept he is that, with her, the Dems have a one-seat majority on the Judicial Committee. The moment she resigns, it's an even split. Customarily, the Senate would promptly appoint a replacement and all would be well. However, that vote would be subject to the filibuster, and the Dems don't trust McConnell to not block it. If McConnell does block a replacement, then the Judicial Committee stays split and appointing any judges becomes completely impossible.
They'd rather deal with Feinstein's limited availability rather than take the gamble that they'd be allowed to fill a replacement. I agree that she should absolutely retire, but there are political games that have to be considered when the stakes are this high.
Because Republicans would rather break the system than allow it to work as intended. Because they know that's the only way they can ever have an advantage.
You know how everyone knows you're supposed to brush your teeth twice a day for 2 minutes, AND FLOSS? If we all did that on the regular, dentist appointments would be quick and painless the vast majority of the time.
Instead, we've got people who barely brush, never floss, avoid the dentist and then hate the dentist for giving them pain and grief when they finally get around to it.
Voting is like that. No one would have to harp on everyone to go vote if everyone did it, and frankly if everyone voted according to their own actual interests and benefits, we wouldn't be IN this mess to begin with.
It's not that it's a magic bullet, and I don't think anyone is pretending it is. It's that not enough people ARE voting, and it's the single best way we have to make a large step in the right direction.
If we all voted blue every election, without fail, eventually we start to see the impact of avoiding the GOP regressions. Eventually we gain momentum.
Vote AND organize. But if you can't even be arsed to vote, what makes you think you'll be willing to do the vastly more intensive actions involved in an active fight?
Do the bare minimum ffs. If you (global you) don't vote, miss me with the bullshit angst and wimpy call to actions no one will take. It's just as much a hand waving whether it's a fist, a middle finger, or a dismissal if it's not engaged otherwise. We need to use ALL the tools we have against oppression.
Voting is the BARE MINIMUM required of a citizen living in a democratic society. You use all tools available to ensure a difficult job is done efficiently and effectively.
At scale, thinking that any problem cannot be solved via a single-facet solution is so myopic that I can barely contain my anger when I encounter it.
Couple that with a lack of understanding that nothing is instant, and everything requires participation in a democracy - and it becomes nearly impossible.
And it's could HAVE.
It's especially galling being repeatedly told to vote when the dems refuse to actually fucking fight. They made nowhere near the amount of effort to block Trump appointees that republicans made to stop Obama appointees and no amount of "high road" moral victories will outweigh the effect of having a far right leaning supreme court for a generation
And do what exactly? Hold a sign on a sidewalk and yell? It all revolves around voting. If your actions don't end up changing votes, then it's literally pointless.
"Getting organized with your community" could mean things like volunteering to help register voters, giving people rides to polling sites, resisting voter suppression, etc. It could also mean things like setting up group panel discussions to help regular people articulate their needs to elected representatives, or organizing fundraisers for political candidates.
In my opinion these types of activist work have potential to be more helpful than just encouraging to people to vote in an abstract sense.
You can even sometimes organize groups of people to solve problems directly on their own. In a town I used to live in, people got sick of waiting on the government to provide better clinics, so they started a free clinic with donated money and labor. Later, they were easily able to secure government grants once it was operating. No voting, signs, or yelling required (I believe they did have a few benefit concerts). It was a win for the community, who got a free clinic, and a win for the local government, who got a longstanding problem off their plate with essentially no effort on their part, just a little ongoing funding.
Doing the work of calling people up & coordinating getting them to come to events (like, say, polling sites, or city council meetings, or benefit concerts) is basically 90% of what "political organizing" is.
i agree with you, but that paragraph is blocky
It's a great reminder why first-past-the-post needs to go. Who's going to step up for the Dems this year? Are we really counting on an anemic Biden to carry the party against an energized right? Or will someone step up to the plate only to be reprimanded as a "spoiler"?
We need actual competition in the political space. If incumbent cronyism could be effectively challenged we'd have politicians who care a bit more about representing and a bit less about political capital.
Fuck, I'm a Millennial, and I'll never forget this. And my Gen Z kids are also pissed even though we are fortunate enough to be able to pay for their college. This family is never voting red.
Yeah between this, abortion rights, and the affirmative action thing... it's gonna be a rough next few years, but in the long term the Republicans are toast. I think what we're experiencing now are their last spasms for power because they know they're on the way out.
Just look up the amount of registered democrats vs. registered republicans in this country. IIRC there's like half again as many democrats.
It's almost like the only reason republicans ever win elections right now is due to is voter suppression.
Yeah, Millennial here as well. I was lucky enough to have been able to pay off my loans. But I'm still pissed at the decision.
I hope all americans pay attention. This was struck down due to the way it was implemented (under the "heroes act" as an "emergency) which reflects how broken the US political system is.
While the court is conservative this probably better reflects how broken the system is in Washington. It's arguable whether this is the courts fault or the dems for using something they knew might be struck down. The initial picture of this just being the courts fault is probably too simple - it is better seen through the prism of next year's elections and both sides posturing and scoring points.
It's helpful to the dems to have another unpopular court decision, but it's up for debate whether this is straight forward conservative court blocking the dems or the dems knowingly pushing something that would get struck down to help drive outrage, it a bit of both with the dems taking a gamble knowing they win either way. None of the scenarios reflects well on US democracy.
Brain dead take.
Taxpayers spent over $1 Trillion on the PPP program, of which, $200 billion is thought to be fraudulent. Another case of only corporations get socialism in the US.
Already rich people get 1.7trillion in tax cuts: crickets
Former middle class Americans get 400bil one time payment: oh fuck no
The sheer audacity and stupidity of the hypocrisy is staggering and enraging.
So you want to steal from other Americans that did not attend college or did attend college but not during the eligible period, because the corporations do it? You people are trash.
If you live in the US you are rich compared to the rest of the world. You are already in the top 90% of global earners. Stfu. Move to a 3rd world country with what you have and live like a king.
And why the hell would we just lay down and accept the fact that our grandparents didn't have student debt because tuition could be paid with a part time job?
Why should we accept that sometimes three incomes isn't enough to support a family when one "unskilled" laborer used to be able to comfortably support a family of five.
Why should we accept the fact that full time at minimum wage can't afford to rent an apartment anywhere in the United States?
Why should we accept that people would rather kill themselves than saddling their family with medical debt.
Why should we accept that people are forced to dangerously ration a drug that costs $10 to produce but costs hundreds of dollars at the pharmacy, with insurance?
Why the fuck would another country having things worse mean we should stop fighting for better?
Forgiving student loans would make all of that worse except for a lucky few.
can you elaborate on how the points @LegendofDragoon mentioned would get worse if student loans were fogiven?
If a thing costs $10, and the government offers to pay $5 of it without any further action, the price of the thing rises to $15. Government money without restrictions is a big part of why tuition costs so much.
Tax money that goes to loan forgiveness for upple middle income people is tax money that can't be spent on decreasing the wealth gap, and in fact will help solidify the wealth gap for anyone not fortunate enough to have a college degree (ie the vast majority of poor people).
Debt forgiveness increases the cost of things. What we need is to attack the roots of the problem - the cost. Don't give people government money to repay private businesses for their ridiculous costs. Use government money to bring the cost down.
California is developing its own generic insulin that it will sell at cost. This will force companies to lower their prices. THAT is how to attack the problem.
Just like taxes are theft too... Fuck off and read a book.
Oh no, not crickets... More like exuberant enthusiasm.
That's not even all of the fraud, that's just the really obvious stuff - overseas scam artists inventing fake companies. Rich members of Congress getting PPP loans for their "businesses" and using the money to buy yachts doesn't seem to be counted.
Surprised Pikachu face
“Capitalism on the way up, socialism on the way down”
What a garbage country.
Absolute shit show
Trash-tier
Remember who did this when you vote in the next election.
Who did this, non elected lifetime appointments?
Thats who will do this, specially the supreme court of old out of touch oligarchs.
Non-elected lifetime appointments who were all appointed by Republicans
The shit rolled downhill, but I can see the person doing the shitting.
The people we elected put them there for a reason. Still matters who you vote for.
Good thing there wasn't a judge that could of stepped down during Obama. /s
could've*
could have*
Whoa, finally one thing I miss from Reddit. Those grammar correction bots were so nice to see in the wild. Unironic big up for doing it manually, though
Who nominated and approved those appointments?
The Federalist Society
The organization closest of any to being an actual American "deep state".
Oh wow, your pedantic argument really swayed me!
Thats quite a precedent. The president doesnt have discretion about his own department of education. Thats a complete undermining of the entire executive branch if its no longer able to make decisions about the executive branch.
Well the executive branch is useless, unless you put in the ultimate cheat code of having R as your party initial. then you can do no wrong and use the hidden magical wand behind the nixon painting to do anything.
Sucks that Republicans are so hellbent on forming a christo-fascist authoritarian regime with the only goal being to pump money into corporations and the wealthy.
Well that's the only reason the party still exists, so...
Eh, this was always on shaky legal grounds. Even Pelosi herself said last year that she didn't think the Executive had the authority to unilaterally do this, and as I understand, Biden was skeptical as well. It's a bit of a stretch to say that Congress intended to allow the President to unilaterally void student debt when they passed a measure to allow for adjustments during emergencies.
The ostensible textualists on the Court are certainly being a little hypocritical, but it's not an absurd ruling.
It's at least got to completely parallel the executive branch's discretion with federal drug laws, that they've exercised in not prosecuting for federal marijuana violations. I feel like that's something to watch out for now.
Major questions doctrine:
If a law is so broad that it brings about questions on how one should implement it, rather than asking Congress to fix it, SOCTUS gets to dictate what specifically the answer to the question is. But if Congress doesn't like that answer SCOTUS gives, Congress may pass a law being more specific. That is, the Court isn't indicating that the law, ruling, or order is unconstitutional, they are ruling that it is too broad in scope and that SCOTUS is "fixing it" for the time being. But Congress is openly invited to completely override anything they've said.
Now of course, "Major Questions" brings about the obvious. "What is the definition of too broad?" And of course there's all kinds of precedent on that as well and SCOTUS saying "well this is broad, but this isn't broad". Since the WV vs EPA (2022) case, SCOTUS Conservatives have gotten a bit more ..... (and it may shock those that I'm using this word) "liberal" in what they consider "broad". And the liberal justices are more than happy to point this out each and every time to the Conservatives:
— Justice Kagan (brutally assaulting and ripping the Conservatives' jugular while dissenting in WV v. EPA (cir. 2022))
So it looks like we're in for a whole lot of "quite a precedent" as the Conservative Justices look posed to whip out the Major Questions doctrine to be allowed to "double think". Major Questions isn't usually used this often and by golly the Conservative Justices seem posed to right that perceived wrong, apparently. And the Liberal Justices have indicated, it's not wise to over use this doctrine. The 6-3 bench isn't forever.
Well... I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised. We all knew this Supreme Court was not in favour of its citizens. The Supreme Court should have been stacked long ago. Leaving it be with its insane appointments just because stacking it might start a war with the GOP was a short sighted move, as the GOP is always going to play underhanded (that's how they managed to get so many SCOTUS appointments in the first place). Biden's insistence on trying to play nice with the GOP has always been his weakness.
This really sucks for those with student loans who were depending on this. We're already in an economically rough place for the kinds of folks who would have student loans. Inflation has been sharp in recent years and wages have not kept up. In my field of tech, layoffs have been widespread and new grads would be the most severely impacted (they already struggle to get hired and now they're competing against an increased number of experienced people).
As an aside, it's also a shame that lawmakers have not managed to pass a law for this debt relief. My understanding is that the strike down is specifically because it's not a congress passed loan forgiveness. But congress isn't willing to do the right thing (not in enough numbers to pass a law, anyway).
Re: Congress, just to comment on the political reality, I think people often lose sight of the fact that only 53% of the country has a college degree, and of those that don't have degrees, you can probably guess their general political leanings. Congressional Republicans who are disproportionately representing people who didn't go and don't care about university education are unlikely to want to vote to further pay for the loans of people who are statistically going to go on to make significantly more money anyway, and their constituents certainly don't want them to.
I think there are decent economic arguments to make in favor of forgiveness, but the opposition isn't coming from nowhere. People without degrees are financially struggling as well, and the plight of tech workers isn't going to be very persuasive.
Loan forgiveness would have helped a lot of people who didn't go to college. People who did not finish their degrees and parents who cosigned on loans were two big benefactors. The blatant hypocrisy of forgiving the PPP loans but then objecting to this forgiveness is what stings the most to me.
I get the hypocrisy, but from a legal perspective, PPP loans were explicitly authorized by Congress. This wasn't.
This isn't as much of a class thing as you think it is. Upper middle class and rich people with college degrees don't have student debt because their families paid for their college tuition. People from lower middle class and working class families have student debt.
Mathematically the same thing.
It's not about where people came from, it's about where they're going and where they are now. Statistically, people with a degree are much wealthier than those without. There are actual poor people who need the help much more.
What is this focus on tech workers? This program would have benefit 1 in 8 Americans. This isn't just tech workers.
Probably because the fediverse is disproportionately used by tech and tech adjacent workers.
I voted for Bernie in the primaries in 2016, then for Hillary when Bernie lost the primary. If Hillary was president when we replaced 3 Supreme Court justices, we would still have choice for abortion and student loan forgiveness.
Don't vote for Republicans, they don't care about women's rights, minorities, LGBTQ rights, worker rights, non Christians, and our democracy.
Too many people fffked up that decision and voted for the guy with the misogyny, racism and entitlement because his name was slathered on watches and ties.
A wake up call to anyone who has student loans. The class war is here, and you're the latest casualty.
Biden is apparently going to talk about this today.
I am sure they saw this coming and have a second punch lined up. Or at least I can hope….(19k in loans with Pell grants)
God forbid we do anything to help people who aren't rich.
The likelihood of recession this fall/winter all but confirmed now. Get ready for defaults, defaults, defaults.
Looks like default is off the table until the election, but there is going to be a serious decline in optional spending. Get ready for more "Why is Millenials/Gen Z killing X industry?
Bullshit, the media has been saying there will be a recession any day now for years.
Your argument against recession is that it hasn't happened yet?
How in the unearthly flying fuck did the 6 Republican state governors have standing to sue on behalf of a private company that did NOT have the right to sue and had NO demonstrable harm?
Completely vacuous institution, the SCOTUS. They just make shit up at this point.
I'm against student loan forgiveness, but I agree. I don't understand how they have standing. This case should have been thrown out.
3rd World country wearing a Gucci belt lol
Gilded cow flop
Biden's loan forgiveness would have disproportionally benefitted the wealthiest Americans and acted as a wealth transfer upwards.
If the problem is that higher education is not affordable, a one-time debt forgiveness does not solve the problem, and it seems a lot like, "I got mine," then pulling the ladder up. I'd much rather we make higher education free for everyone like they do in Germany, permanently solving the problem by making higher education accessible to every American.
Perfect is the enemy of good. As long as this country is run by a majority of conservative politicians from both parties we will never have free higher education. Hell, half the country doesn't want kids to have free education at any grade level.
Hell, half the country doesn't want kids to have food when they go to school.
This is actually a similar deal that's been misrepresented to get the sympathy of left wing voters.
Poor kids already get food.
This push is aimed at giving kids whose families make too much to qualify for free food, free food. It's another handout to rich people.
I don't care if rich kids end up getting food even if they don't need it. If the means testing means even one kid who needs the food doesn't get it then I say scrap the means testing altogether.
Except this isn't even good, it's making the problem worse.
These two ideas you present aren't mutually exclusive. Thinking that they are is limiting.
Example: "Oh hey, yeah the current system is predatory and unfair. [Bam, loans forgiven.] Also, because of that injustice, we never want to put anyone into that position again [Bam, affordable higher education]." Do the rich get "more forgiveness" than the poor? Yeah, that's not really a problem if 100% == 100%.
I get that the rich people who pulled up the ladder after getting a cheap college education feel that loan forgiveness is cutting into their earning potential. But the needs of the rich do not and should not outweigh the needs of the many.
I really don't think it's the rich that are driving a lot of the opposition to this. I'm originally from a very poor rural Missouri town where the vast majority of people don't go to college. As you can imagine, they're not huge fans of the idea of subsidizing loans for people who are statistically going to go on to make significantly more money than they are anyway.
I have literally never seen anyone advocating for loan forgiveness advocating this. Ever. It's not even on the radar.
This is pure self-centered greed dressed up as "fairness".
There's something very funny about ostensible progressives championing a blatantly regressive wealth transfer.
But I'm sure you know enough about online political discussions to know that this isn't the kind of realism that's going to be positively received.
You're talking about two different problems. But good job conflating the two if that was your intention. Which it seems it was.
@nameless_prole Seems like the same problem to me: college isn't affordable.
We can address this in a systemic and meaningful way by making it affordable for everyone going forward, or we can make it affordable for a select few people who chose to take on debt at this one specific time. One addresses the problem in a meaningful way, the other does not. Canceling debt seems like a political ploy to gain favor with those who have student debt and it seems to have worked, given the downvotes garnered by every comment that isn't pulling out pitchforks over this.
On what basis do you claim these are different issues?
I'm not surprised they struck it down, but I guess the jaded side of me is surprised they allowed him a different avenue to do the relief instead of making the whole concept illegal.
Also, there was talk from the Republicans about try to force everyone to pay back the interest we would have been paying this entire time. Somewhat surprised they didn't agree to that as well.
There's nothing formal stopping the SC from doing anything, but courts are generally limited to ruling on the controversy in front of them in as narrow a way as practically possible. I haven't read any analysis on this ruling, but just from the little I have seen, it looks like they ruled that the HEROES Act didn't grant the federal government the ability to forgive the loans in the way they were attempting.
Biden could try using an authority from a different law or creating a different set of rules by which the loans may be forgiven.
My non-lawyer prediction is that if Biden tries again, the SC will find a new reason to stop it and will make a bigger ruling that takes more power away from federal agencies to make decisions. They've already been doing this with environmental and health decisions, and I'm sure other agencies have been impacted too.
So uhhh… if we all just don’t pay…. They can’t come after all of us, right?
If you owe the bank one thousand dollars, that's your problem. If you owe the bank a billion dollars, that's their problem.
If a million people owe the bank a thousand dollars each, a million people have a problem.
One million vs. One? I like those odds...
United we stand, baby. 1 million individuals will get steamrolled. A group of 1 million is unstoppable.
Lol, oh honey...
Vote!
When you start feeling hopeless about student loans not being forgiven, remember that PPP loans were all forgiven. PPP loans taken out by businesses and corporations. Domination is the point with all of the subhuman unwashed anuses leading this country. Never forget how they line their own pockets at our expense, and fight against us at every turn with the courts and all three branches of government. All of it has been weaponized against us and no longer serves us in any capacity.
With conservatives, the cruelty is always the point. Same applies here. SCOTUS is just enforcing death on the impoverished.
And yet we are somehow allowed to issue billions in forgivable loans to churches that don't pay taxes.
Why should people not have to pay back money they borrowed?
Yeah, when are they going to start clawing back all of those forgiven ppp loans?
I, for one, am in favor of that too.
Also, fund the IRS.
Fuck all thieves of gov money from all generations. That's my taxes. Not your persobal piggy bank.
$ 2billion in crooked PPP loans.
$2.5 trillion in tax breaks for people who don't even need loans.
The Coast Guard activated for a soulless overfinanced sheisster that murdered four people with him in a device that people warned was a death trap and he FIRED them.
That's why.
The Supreme Court is a fucking joke. Scratch that, this entire fucking country is a joke.
Biden suspected this would happen, hence why he was previously doing student loan forgiveness in smaller increments. But people kept pushing him to do the entire thing and claiming that he was actively against students because he wasn't. No, he knew this happening was a high possibility.
And this case sets much bigger precedents than the specific subject, precedents in two areas.
The specific claim that the Secretary was "transforming" the law rather than tweaking things is asinine, especially since the HEROES Act was incredibly vague in the first place. So this sets precedent that any usage of a law outside of explicitly what it says (difficult to even determine when a bill is so vague) gives leverage to reverse any executive action in enacting the law. Which will just allow massive conservative obstructionism even more on everything.
The entire case having standing as it is. Why do 6 states have standing to sue on something done in regards to federal loans? The idea that states can sue on any federal issue now is concerning to the extreme.
They could've at least fed us dinner before we got fucked!
Welp, I'm fucked.
Ouch. I am not looking forward to the economical impact of this.....
Now call me crazy, but isn't this something that the legislature would be empowered to do as well? I want to see the bills that these reps have put forth to address the issue.
Congress could forgive the loans too.
Where's Dark Brandon when we need him?
Sorry guys you have to do like the Boomers you don't like and be responsible and pay off your debt like the rest of us did.
I paid off my student loan debt and still want to see loan forgiveness. Why should people have to suffer just because I did? Straight up evil.
Baby boomers paid for college with a summer job, bought their houses with a $10k down payment and then pulled the ladder up behind them by voting to massively cut funding for education and foot students with the bill. And now boomers are being forgiven ppp loans too lmao.
Ok boomer, such a mystery why people don't like you. Entitled clueless pricks, given the world and then turn into the worst example ever of "got mine, fuck you!". Go to hell.
Ah yes, back when you were basically guaranteed a high-earning job out the uni door and could pay the loan back in just a few years of working. You mean that being responsible?
Or do you mean responsible as in when the middle-class wasn't being crushed to nothing, almost everyone could afford to buy a home, and a single breadwinner could reasonably provide for a family?
Most boomers were able to pay for their college with part time/summer work.
What a horribly uneducated take. I guess there's a reason your education was 10 times cheaper than it is today.
This is a problem that boomers created.
We are just inheriting it while they all die.
Government forgiveness also makes the problem worse for gen Z. But hey, fuck them, I want mine, right?
Millennials are becoming what we hate and it's sad.
You dropped this "/s".
Wanting a government handout for rich people but refusing to call it a handout is the most boomer thing that millennials have ever done.
No free shit for you. You take on debt, you pay it back. Education is an investment and an investment carries risk. No tax payer should bail you out.
We shouldn't be using tax money to scrape billionaires' remains out of stupidly constructed failsubs after days of worthless searching, too.
Rich people should just form their own private coast guard and pay for it themselves.
You better be saying that shit to all those businesses that got their PPP loans forgiven, otherwise kiss the blackest part of my ass.
yanno what? do that anyway. And get in a hole.
"Well they stole from you so we should be able to steal from you too!"
No.
Bootlicker. Seems pretty clear from this thread that your values are not wanted here. Leave.
I'm not the guy you responded to, but I for one am also saying that. No free gov money to any wealthy people. PPP loans, tax cuts for wealthy people, student loan forgiveness, it should all be scrapped/clawed back. Poor people need that money.
Yeah, you're "saying" it. Big deal. You know how this works, and no matter what you may "say", the rich will get the tax breaks, the loan forgiveness, the government programs, and everyone else can go fuck themselves.
So spare me.
Poor people take out student loans. What the fuck do you think those Pell Loans were that would have qualified for $20k forgiveness under this program? You've bought the "I didn't directly benefit from this, so therefore it's not beneficial to society as a whole" propaganda
That, or it's just run of the mill "I didn't get anything from this, so I don't want anybody to," with a thin veneer of false empathy.
First of all, I have $7k in loans that would be forgiven. So that ain't it.
Second of all, yeah, I'm just one dude, that's how democracy works. If I can convince you that any use of government money to serve one group of people when there's others who need it much more is wrong, then we'll be two dudes.
Edit: oh, about this
Overwhelmingly, no. Poor people don't go to college. They either don't get educated in high school to begin with, or they have family to support and can't spend 4 years not making an income, even if they could get enough loans to live off of (which is unlikely).
Middle class people get loans.
Also an investment BY DEFINITION is something assured of carrying a positive outcome down the road.
You're thinking of GAMBLING.
Don't even with your trying to muddy the waters between GAMBLING and INVESTMENT.
This shit is why I want OceanGate to pay for wasting the Coast Guard's time and resources.
😡😡😡😡😡
Sorry guys you have to do like the Boomers you don't like and be responsible and pay off your debt like the rest of us did.
Just like the boomers, we too have affordable housing, living wages, affordable colleges...wait a second...
Hey look it's that thing where somebody says something on the internet so brick fucking stupid you can't tell if you're looking at an actual idiot or a parody of one.
This sent me on an interesting thought tangent: if we were talking on Reddit or, like, Facebook where anybody with a pulse could register and start shitposting then the quandary you propose makes a ton of sense. But with Fediverse, there are certainly more hoops to jump through to get to a post like this and leave a comment, right?
All of which is to ask if it's right to presume malice here rather than ignorance given the comparative barrier to entry? I vote malicious parody of one.
Boomers have it easy, so of course. Seriously though, get off your high horse.
Did you have to deal with insane inflation? No.
Did you have to deal with extremely competitive job market that increasingly demand higher level of skill? No.
Did you have to deal with minimum wage that doesn't let people live decent life? No.
Boomers always say this shit, but Boomers could pay for school on a credit card. Their tuition was an 1/8th of what we pay, maybe less. My parents all went to school without even needing to take out a loan because school was so affordable
Boomers paying off a few thousand in debt to go to school is not the same as today's students who owe tens to hundreds of thousands in debt just to get an education.
Boomers who claim that because they paid off their measly loans then everyone else should have to are self-righteous pricks.
All this to say: fuck off boomer, your handout on a silver platter of a life shouldnt get to make decisions about ours
Even if the costs were the same what the fuck line of asshole thinking in "I had to suffer, so you do too" what the fuck happened to people wanting better for the future generations?
lol. hilarious.
Since I got a lot of downvotes, I'm assuming you all are younger than me :D
How about assuming you have a bad take and reflect?
Are you younger than the lower 50s? I'm not and downvoted you. You should be ashamed.
Thanks for ruining the economy for younger generations
Someone get with the folks from RIPmedicaldebt and do RIPstudentloandebt for the ones that would have qualified for the forgiveness program